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Imagine@Box : Can you Imagine a Box...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by SJAM, Mar 25, 2013.

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  1. TylerPerry

    TylerPerry

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    So, you wont market you product to hobbyists and "Kids"?
     
  2. TylerPerry

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    Well, when it comes to a product the target audiance is the center of the universe and with games I'm sure that would include people like me, marigoldfluer and KheltonHeadley and as such you do in fact need to listen if your idea will go somewhere.
     
  3. fogman

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    And you got an answer, which seems to be: No, not at all.
    Where´s the problem? You´ve presented your idea, but nobody wants to get on the train, at least not in its current state.

    Insteat of complaining you could ask yourself a lot of questions to make your idea better. That´s the usual way to refine design decisions.

    You proposed your target group as "I wanted to help beginners like the kid, but they think they are already pros."
    To reach a target group, you should understand them at first. What are their concerns, what are their wishes?
    They have brought their concerns and wishes to you. They could have ignored you, but they put some energy to write all these posts down, they tried to understand your idea. That´s a veritable goldmine of information and you shouldn´t be so bad about it.

    Edit: Got ninja´d by TylerPerry... :mrgreen:
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  4. MarigoldFleur

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    You say "centre of the universe" but completely fail to see that that's how you're acting. Everyone in this thread has told you that this is a bad idea and all you say is "you just don't get it!" and then repeat the same talking points over and over again, even though they've been completely debunked. You've insulted multiple people in this thread and been incredibly dismissive even though it has been explained to you why your idea is completely untenable.
     
  5. Khyrid

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    Perhaps the key to azert2k's reasoning is in understanding what would be the difference between a professional AAA game console and making our own as a community. In his mind the combined efforts of the unity community could launch an indie console, then people would sell them on ebay to distribute I guess.

    The AAA consoles make money by making their stuff proprietary. This Box idea would not be so, the PC already exist and can run anything that it would be able to run and do anything it would be able to do, plus PCs are already distributed and used by MANY people.

    The only way this idea could work is if making these boxes was very cheap, practical to do and every so often some of the games made for it were exclusive to the box and unable to be played on a normal PC. Also these exclusive games would need to be great and have a following. Only then could many other indie projects find any kind of success with this through exposure. Still there would have to be some other method of monetization.

    "the audience is interested because of a game they want to play that can only be played on this system"
    -Me

    The idea of building your own may even work as a good marketing ploy. Only after the audience is interested because of a game they want to play that can only be played on this system, would they start to feel special because the console they play they built themselves. Their bragging would also act as viral advertizing. It would be this form of elitism like the mountain due code red marketing campaign towards computer "hackers". For those who lack the expertise to build their own, somebody could make a lot of money building them and selling them online.

    I honestly don't know if any of my suggestions are possible. I just tried to imagine how your idea might work, rather than just telling you that it won't. Also by the time the proper measures are taken to make this idea feasible, it's just a product to make money, it wouldn't offer anything new.

    **append:

    I would love to develop for a console where I could make local couch based co-op games that don't need any internet connection. Maybe azert2k's idea is based on the lack of that kind of target platform for indie developers.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  6. Pix10

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    OUYA was proposed because Android is a decent OS waiting for a decent console format - it was a very natural thing to happen, and the fact it's independent is a big plus.

    Someone suggested earlier that the hardware is upgradable - IIRC new hardware will be released annually to keep up with progress...so not unlike smartphones, but without the high price + contract.


    Azert, the problem with your idea is that is has no appeal. There's nothing to take offence over, even if the answers don't appeal to you (there's enough irony in those two sentences to describe the entire thread).

    As it stands, the idea of a PC that is locked down to described specs isn't a new idea - hello Valve and Steambox. But Valve have something to offer people - and, let's face facts, they're only doing it to make money. Follow the money, you'll find appeal.
     
  7. MarigoldFleur

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    This is seriously what the Ouya is.

    No, actually, I can't find a single person in this thread who agrees with you. It's not two people, it's EVERYONE. But please, keep making stuff up about your detractors. I'm sure that'll somehow pay off in the end.
     
  8. Khyrid

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    Funny enough, most of your arguments against this box idea seem to be valid towards the Ouya also. Why don't people just hook their computers to their TVs unless the cord cost more than $100?
     
  9. MarigoldFleur

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    Because the PC, from an interface standpoint, does not apply well to TVs and requires a good deal of secondary content like wireless keyboards and mice if they aren't already owned. The Ouya is actually designed around the TV and comes with everything you need to hook it up out of the box. It also, you know, already exists. It's built. It's ready. It requires no assembly, no special downloads. Hook it up and go.
     
  10. kaiyum

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    @azert2k ,no body will make something completely for free. We have life .And to drive that crazy bitch, we really need some money. To work on some portfolios, is absolutely fine. But again, a console for this is not necessary. With OUYA, one certainly can do both CV/portfolio making and money making. You need to have some exclusive key points, that help us and end-users. To bring something new in this world, one should drink some mountain-dew too. :D Be cool!
     
  11. MarigoldFleur

    MarigoldFleur

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    Cool, more insults. How about you actually say something compelling about this completely pointless idea instead?
     
  12. kaiyum

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    1.Plug and play TV experience
    2.Online
    3.Apps
    4.Super cheap.
    5.Powerful
    6.Both user friendly and dev friendly

    After that I can say the below,
    $Shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpg
     
  13. MarigoldFleur

    MarigoldFleur

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    No, I'm waiting for you to prove you have something worth saying.
     
  14. kaiyum

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    I pray for winter.:p
     
  15. Khyrid

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    Then you said...

    Can you explain what your idea has that Ouya doesn't? Is it because Ouya will have too many games to compete with?
     
  16. Khyrid

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    And now... all communication seems to have broken down.

    C'est ce que vos commentaires ressemblent pour nous.

    Take your time and think about the criticisms you have received.
     
  17. kingcharizard

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    so you wish to make a free OUYA for unity?
     
  18. MarigoldFleur

    MarigoldFleur

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    Yes. THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
     
  19. TylerPerry

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    First you say that the kids game is bad, then you say that this is basically the kinds of games your console is for.

    As I read it basically you say you want us to put our games onto your platform, but are not willing to actually listen or except our ideas and criticisms.... there is only one person acting like a child here ;)

    Parts of the idea are good, IMO if developers came together and worked out a default minimum spec's then that would be good, as it would give some kind of basis for people to know when to upgrade, clearly it is not applicable to many games but for many it would be great.
     
  20. joshimoo

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    For 99$ you can use XNA and develop for the XBOX 360.
    Just wanted to leave this here for people that are interested in publishing on a console (it's not the real deal but close enough)
     
  21. fogman

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    Please allow me a comparison: I´m by any means not an experienced politician, but I´m sure you´re on my side when I say that the aggressive policy of North Korea is not exactly brilliant.
    Everyone is allowed to criticize an idea, even if he doesn´t have any clue about the background. That´s actually a good thing, it´s a fundamental concept of democracy and freedom of speech. It leads to interesting points of views and it should force people to think about their ideas in different ways.

    Maybe you can step back a little: Execute the core of your idea (make a web-portal with free unity games that are ready for download or playable in the browser), propose some general guidelines for submission (system specs, etc...) and make a tutorial on how to build a DIY-Linux console-PC. Then promote it and watch how it evolves.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  22. KheltonHeadley

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    My god Azert, your childish behavior is honest ridiculous. "Kid this, kid that, kid there". I've been doing unity dev since 2.6, I'm a lot more interested in doing freelance over doing my own personal projects. I make around 1k a month at the moment from my paid jobs so I think that more than shows my skill. Discriminating based on their ages isn't very useful considering you not only act like a immature child who doesn't get his way, you can't take any opinions or peoples say on things will out getting insanely defensive and looping back to what you've already said at least 20 times.

    Here is the problem, there are undoubtedly more "child"(u18) with a ton more talent, respect and maturity than you. TylerPerry, Marigold and myself are conducting ourselves in a much more mature manor and we're younger than you. So saying you won't take advice from a kid due to his age is pretty stupid. We don't like the idea, the odd person does. Okay, pm them and get them involved and see how it goes. But you insulting people for what they've accomplished.

    HAHA..coming from you eh?

    Respect is earned, you can't demand it if you're being a rude and disRESPECTful douche.

    Since I've last replied, you haven't said something that hasn't already been established or something that provides some clarity. I'm very surprised from you, I'd expect an adult to act more mature than this. You'll have to realize that younger devs are the future here.
     
  23. imaginaryhuman

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    I'm late to this, I read the OP but nothing else. Sounds like basically having the indie developers build their own console, and then make games for it that can be played by other developers/enthusiasts who have also made their own console... right? Then make money only by donations.... Well, you're going to cut down your audience by a huge amount by requiring them to build a console right away.. only a handful of people will do that, and then to have no way of making money besides donations which are optional and most people will not do.. it's kind of a very closed system with hardly any support/strength to it. I don't think it will work beyond maybe a few hundred dedicated users. It is definitely no way mass market. What indie's need is something more like Ouya where the platform is easy to use, doesn't require assembly, works out of the box and appeals to the mass market, yet is very indie friendly. There just isn't enough viability to have your market be indie gamers/developers.
     
  24. KheltonHeadley

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    Again, sure I only have Cubey to show as a personal project but in the next 6 -12 months you'll see 3 projects with my name on them. So far you've completed T4M, Mobile Starter pack and and Alien Game that isn't very advanced. Cubey is infact an easy project, it was finished in two weeks of actual dev time but spread over the 2 months of the summer. Two weeks for a simple game that went to be rated 59 on Indiedb, yes ALL of indiedb., made me over $3,000 and is still a simple game with as you put it "50 lines of code". I'm 14, compare to your 14 year old self.
     
  25. KheltonHeadley

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    That still doesn't change the $250 computer that you have to build yourself when you can just get an ouya which already has 570+ launch titles.

    EDIT

    Better yet, compare me the 14 year old to any average 14 year old.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  26. KheltonHeadley

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    You're the one asking for respect. Treat others the way you want to be treated. You learn that in pre-school.

    EDIT

    So I think you can stop bashing me on what I do.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  27. MarigoldFleur

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    You didn't make anything. You wrote down a list of parts and told other people to do the rest of the work.
     
  28. HolBol

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    Dude why so angry? You've stated an idea, and people didn't like it. Either change it, explain it, or move on.
     
  29. Graham-Dunnett

    Graham-Dunnett

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    Let a kickstarter determine that.
     
  30. kalamona

    kalamona

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    Wow, that is pretty respectable for 14, congrats!
     
  31. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    @azert2k

    Having followed this thread with interest I've decided that you are being annoying by looking down on "kids". You repeatedly mention that "the kid" or "kids" are not worth listening to.

    But I've got news for you. Every console designer and game developer listens to kids. Because guess what? kids represent a *huge* market, if not the majority market for games and consoles. Wow, right?

    So by not listening to a "kid" you're shooting yourself in the foot.

    Dragon's den voice I'm out!
     
  32. MarigoldFleur

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    Well, since you asked so nicely: people don't understand your idea/think your idea is dumb because it makes absolutely no goddamn sense for anyone to ever take part in it from any angle.
     
  33. Thomas-Pasieka

    Thomas-Pasieka

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    Alright so if people here can't calm down I will have to close this thread.
     
  34. Khyrid

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    The only way for this idea to work is to give it some advantage over the Ouya. Feel free to correct anything below.

    Stats:

    Ouya:
    $99
    Indie friendly
    Already assembled!
    Professionally marketed
    Plugs to TV
    Devs can make money with it (I think)
    Goal: Many people develop for it and many people play it

    Imagine a Box:
    $200+ ?
    Unity Indie friendly (game maker, Platform Studio, Shiva, Game Brix, UDK...? Also?)
    Make your self
    Grass roots marketing or maybe kickstarter...
    Plugs to TV
    Monetization not decided yet
    Goal: Indie developers can add their games to a console without restrictions
    and showcase their work on this platform as opposed to on the over populated internet


    It seems to me the biggest outstanding problem with your idea is having people make their own. What would be people's motive to build it? While it could be interesting and maybe as I mentioned before, it might make a niche crowd, having people build their own does not help your goal. It would be better to make a kickstarter and use the money to manufacture them and ship them.
     
  35. dtg108

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    Yes, it would be VERY hard for someone to assemble their own "box", not to mention time-consuming. I just don't see it working. As Kevin O'Leary would say: "Your competitors will squash you like the cockroach you are."
     
  36. landon912

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    Nice quote dtg:) Khelton and MarigoldFluer are being a nice version of Kevin O'Leary, if you presented this idea to him he would make you cry. This idea is just not logical since there are numerous major issues, including : small target audience (ability to build PC), cost, and only indie games(I want to also play AAA!). Stop being rude and discriminating against age, call me a kid since I'm only 14, but I'll just post my IQ up here and lets compare ehh?
     
  37. dtg108

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    So you know Kevin too, eh? Anyway, I'm trying to be nice, but I just don't think it will work for reasons listed by Landon. The price would be a huge thing, considering it's ONLY indie games. Long story short, I can IMAGINE a box, but I can't see it working.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  38. hippocoder

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    I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I'm saying arguing with feedback is a bad idea, on the basis that the feedback is from a younger member. My company - simian squared - listens to voices of all ages and experience because guess what? these people are your customers and can make or break your business.
     
  39. landon912

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    Agreed, "kids" are a big group of potential customers in the industry. Ps : Congrats HippoCoder on OB. :D
     
  40. KheltonHeadley

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    Well I think this is solved. Thanks for the comments guys, :p

    Anyways, good luck all. I think our points made it across.
     
  41. MarigoldFleur

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    So your plan to get indies exposure is to force them to use Steam, a notoriously difficult to access platform. Once again, this offers less benefits than a PC and a website and you STILL have to build it yourself.
     
  42. KheltonHeadley

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    Holy crap.

    You're basically saying all kids are the same, and don't understand anything. Or that kids don't understand the commercial setting? Well jokes on you. You keep saying kid, and it really doesn't mean anything because I seem to not only be a lot more mature than yourself. I also seem to know what I'm doing and handle myself more like an adult than you. Everything you've said above you've done several times
     
  43. KheltonHeadley

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    What other way is there to take them? You're very ignorant. I'm sure if I said this to you you'd feel quite offended and feel obliged to reply back.
     
  44. Khyrid

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    What do you hope to achieve with this? This argument steering us away from the topic. I think everyone else can agree that azert2k has been unreasonable to the criticisms he received and a bit insulting, but trying to convince him of this will achieve nothing. Everybody will stick to their egos. You don't have to continue to prove you're right, everyone knows you were right. Just turn the other cheek and let it go.

    *IMHO
     
  45. Pix10

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    I think the most mature thing anyone stuck in this thread can do is open Unity and do something creative. Shake off those dignity blues guys.
     
  46. SJAM

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    Finally, a smart word !
     
  47. dogzerx2

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