If we have full dive VR would there still be people living in real life?

If we have full dive VR would there still be people living in real life? In other words would VR cause human extinction?

Optional question - In your opinion approximately how many people would remain if that would happen? 1 million maybe

Thanks

 

Had to move to general because the VR forums aren't for general chit chat but for solving VR problems

 

Everyone. Because we would need infrastructure to support the majority being in a virtual environment. Otherwise our stay there would be a very short one.

 

Man you gonna need a virtual toilet too or something. XD

 

There'd only be people living in real life. A species which cant procreate dies out.

 

Internet is a series of tubes already.

 

https://media.giphy.com/media/CZrpSEiVli8w0/giphy.gif Hahaha this is what it would be like!

 

Average boomers won't have enough technical know-how.
For anything.
Ever.

 

If basics of biological life are taken care of, being in the real world would slowly become considered a scary vulnerable experience, for the risk takers, akin to climbing the everest just or living alone in the wild off-grid.

 

Why has this idea shown up in various forums recently? The idea isn't new, was there something in the news that I missed. Or is this also you? https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/would-vr-cause-human-extinction.978242/

I'd expect the population density would increase, I see no reason why we couldn't have billions of people inside the VR world. In astrophysics there is a concept called a matrioshka brain, which is a possible solution to the Fermi Paradox. The theory goes that species who are advanced enough to digitize themselves or large parts of their lives, will turn inwards instead of outward.

I think you'd have to decide what you call human. In a thousand years, our ancestors will likely still be here, but be genetically very different from us, and may not be fleshy at all. It's easy to extrapolate to that point. As VR becomes more and more common, more and more of our lives will be inside of it. Children won't have to physically travel to school. Work can be mostly remote, even manual labor jobs can be done remotely by just controlling robotics. Children growing up in that world will not know anything else, so being inside will be their lives, you only go outside to eat, sleep, sex... The virtual world would just be an extension of our "inside" home. Eventually, perhaps a hundred years, perhaps a thousand, we'll have machines powerful enough to simulate a human mind inside, which will be an attractive prospect. Body has cancer? No problem, you don't need your body, upload your mind and discard it, live inside the virtual world. Immortality in the form of a digital afterlife. That'll eventually become the majority of the human population, as fleshy bodies continue to get old and die and more and more people become transhuman simulations. Because manual labor has been connecting the VR to robotics for centuries, there is no reason a simulated mind can't just move into one and live as a robot. In the future, our meaty human part will just be considered our early life cycle before we mature after a century or so, then transform into our adult, mechanized form.

 

Just imagine the perpetual motion sickness!

 

VR neither is practical, nor comfortable at current state, for any prolong time. I consider is as gimmick for minorities, which can be fun but not for too long. Some industrial applications may be potentially good. I tested some few years back. But to be honest, they did not introduce better workflow, understanding, or problem solving, than doing same thing on the flat screen.

Brain is such sophisticated device, that after short period of time, you forgot you are actually in VR. So all excitement is gone. Same applies to 3D films. You only remember few unit scenes, which were 3D. But rest of the film is just don't matter, if is 3D or 2D. You would describe experience more less in same way.

For me, if you want VR to be seriously considered for masses, it need to be like matrix. Plug your brain directly.

360degree made films (I forgot tech name) will probably have more luck to it.

 

Extra cash for pharmaceutical industry suppose to be good thing, boosting economy ....

 

I think there will be a portion of the population who escape into VR and never come out. How large a portion will depend on the ability of others to handle the escapee's basic needs like food and shelter (whether through their family or through government doll). There has always been a portion of the population that escaped into books, video games, hobbies, drugs, alcohol, or other places, with a section of that portion doing it in an unhealthy way.

An article I recently read might give a view of how this is already happening even without VR:
Young Men Are Playing Video Games Instead of Getting Jobs. That's OK. (For Now.)

 

My wild speculation:

For the vast majority of humanity to live in Matrix pods, we'd need a very high level of automation to perform all maintenance, manufacturing, delivery etc. It is also difficult to imagine an economy based on virtually no one doing any actual work, and raising the economic status of people in the developing world to a level where they would have access to such technology on an equal footing to more developed countries. Nearly a billion people still don't have access to electricity, and half the world's population lacks internet access. So we have a long way to go before pretty much everyone is plugged in.

I'd also think everyone in their matrix pods would make governments highly susceptible to takeover, and the population then extremely easy to control.

I think the most likely scenario for the bulk of humanity living like this would be a major disaster which dramatically reduces the human population and makes the surface of the earth uninhabitable. The resulting underground society gets really into virtual living as a means of escaping their cramped underground environment, eventually resulting after many generations in a society which stays in their pods all the time.

 

If lots of people are plugging into the matrix for lengthy periods of time, I'm stealing all their stuff.

 

People bring up this idea every year or so, sometimes as fiction, sometimes as genuine speculation. It's basically the same thing as all those people who say "young people these days only look at their phones"

 

If 'full dive' VR ever existed, I think it would present a big problem. It's pretty clear that we're already straining our mental capacity to operate in highly artificial environments. If you take the (pretty well established) hypothesis that stress and anxiety is produced in large amounts by avoidance behaviour, well full dive VR is the ultimate form that it could take. I'm not too sure what would be the result of going to the end of that spectrum.

In all my experience so far, I've been led to the conclusion that human beings, for all intents and purposes, cannot bootstrap their way into psychological resilience and growth. They must test themselves against things outside of their control, what you might call the 'natural order' of things (which includes civilization as well of course). To a good extent, it's necessary to not have a choice, to not be able to set the terms of your own existence, to be completely fulfilled in life. Because it's only after you let go of part of your ego that you can realize why something is meaningful.

On a positive note, I think 'full dive' VR has the potential to provide a setting for accelerated personal and character growth - it's just that people won't be interested in using it for non-gratifying things.

Would there still be people living in reality? Yes, at least those people who consider that the universe and reality still have things to teach and offer.

 

VR porn will be a huge industry

 

To be honest, I have hard time to imagine, how that suppose to work at pleasure level, without extra suits, gloves or other devices. Otherwise price and awkwardness well keep idea in deep shadow, of very niche market.

If you believe yourself what you are saying, you would be on the hype train already. Surely should be more successful than some VR FPS?

Or I am missing something?

 

With full dive VR you couldn't tell it from the real thing.

 

What is your definition of "full dive VR"?
What does it requires in your opinion, to provide full experience for users.
What will be feasibility for average Joe, to get in such VR experience.

Before you jump to assumptions, while answering, please make sure you understand first, that people are and will be in different parts of the world, and economical status gaps are/will be always huge. Thank you.

 

The thread is about full dive VR which I assume the OP means matrix style level of VR. With such fidelity VR porn will be a massive industry

 

I give you that, if that is indeed the case

 

Current gen VR porn is S*** and only for people who are unable to aquire real sex

 

Usually when the term is used it's referencing the Sword Art Online anime which is very much matrix-style VR.

https://swordartonline.fandom.com/wiki/FullDive

 

The porn industry has largely reached a sort of equilibrium where their market reach kinda caps out regardless of device and is already a pretty huge industry.

I think some people in this thread are overestimating their own stamina.

 

Au contraire de ce que tu prétends, cela n’est pas le cas.

 

I don't understand how you can at the same time say VR porn sucks, while being a proponent of VR gaming.

Neither is VR gaming, and yet you seem to see enough merit in it to make a game for it.

 

Some things are better experienced in real life than in VR, for example its better to take a trip to pripyat and see the post-apocalyptic city first hand than seeing it in a VR experience. Stuff that you can do in real life just makes no sense todo in current gen VR. Most people do not want to participate in combat irl. Though you might debate you can play paintball and airsoft. Those are really cool games and does deliver things we can't do in VR, but at the same time we can deliver theaters of war they can not etc. But at the same time we can give a pretty accurate representation of combat. VR sex, not so much

 

The problem is not simply a question of what people want to do irl. It's also that, while certain things are perfectly achievable in real life, many people consider them to be outside the realm of realistic possibility, especially those who are afraid of failure. And that is the real danger of VR.

 

For some people, I would think that a well done game would be more immersive than paintball. Paintball has the base adrenaline of running and diving for cover, but a game can add the sights, the sounds, the explosions that suck your brain in.

There is also the argument to be made for the many people who could not (for example) experience paintball instead of real combat. An out of shape person can't run very far in a paintball game, but they could likely play for long periods in a VR game. Someone like me could not physically play paintball, unless someone has created a version you can play while hobbling around safely on a cane, but I can already play a PC Star Wars video game and run around jumping, flipping, and doing all kinds of neat lightsaber tricks.

I will also point out that there are plenty of things I could do in real life that I would only do in a video game, VR or not. I have built a whole farm in Stardew Valley, but in real life I wouldn't even want a window box for growing flowers as it would wither and die before I managed to take care of it properly.

 

Yeah that's what I meant with theaters of war, something you can't easily recreate with paintball. Also with a stock Togo with your VR controllers you get a pretty accurate representation of a firearm, offcourse things like recoil etc will not be there. But it's pretty cool how far you can come with dry fire practice. Like this guy,

Granted, airsoft has more true to life trigger pressaure etc than VR controllers, but aa someone that owns firearms in real life and play and develop VR shooters it's pretty cool how much you can pick up by playing VR shooters

 

It's better than the real deal.

 

haha, depends on the wife I guess

 

Waifu*

 

This is a bit NSFW for forums that people can be on during work hours. Should be hidden via spoiler tags (can we even spoiler tag on here?)

 

Its just an incel having fun

 

You can add spoilers. Just type (spoiler)content(/spoiler) and replace curve brackets () with square brackets []. Not sure why is not part of selectable option. But same applies to strike (s)(/s)

But what is the point here censoring things, if we use all range of words already, which come up on TV on daily bases anyway, when even kids can watch. Lets not make a drama on minor things.

 

I don't think the question was about hiding it from the children or our own sensitive eyes. If you are working in an office (at least in the US) having any sexualized images on the computer screen is a very bad thing. This can include browsing on your cell phone during your breaks. Spoiler tags with "NSFW" or other warnings allow people who have office jobs to read the forums without risking those office jobs.

 

I see you point, but no offence, it is ridiculous, in current content.
If anyone would attempt to accuse of watching some explicit images, is easily to prove to management, that is part of software / gaming development. Not about looking at the porn. Just give a link sorted.

Yet, I have seen on daily bases news papers in different canteens, with halve naked girls on back pages. Then we got sexualised jokes, in many news papers. And now we worry about some pants?
No one really cares. I have seen / heard people worry more about gambling and drugs talking, than sex during breaks.

 

Yes. You just surround the content you want to hide with [ spoiler ] and [ /spoiler ] minus the spaces.

Spoiler

Example.

 

Yes it is. I love this country, really, that's why I live here. But at the same time it is one of the most hypocritical society as well. At least for the moment.
One of the flagship society of freedom and free speech and at the same time the most puritan in many ways (when it comes to other people's rights and circumstances).
But it is changing, slowly but steadily. I think. I'm an optimist (or naive)
Obviously this is only for the US.

--

But on the other hand this forum is for everyone, all across the globe. And different places, different countries have different rules. So I think doing spoiler when the content can be considered NSFW is perfectly legit and welcome. And do not forget, this forum is visited by many people from many circumstances, somewhere it is acceptable somewhere it isn't.

 

I'm from Sweden, we have different view on sex than the US
It seems showing weapons and violence is fine, but not sex.. thats interesting for a swede

 

I think the notion that graphic violence vs. racy content on TV in the states' being hypocritical is something to be challenged.

I understand the argument, but its not that simple. If you've ever watched HBO, you'd be wrong about this assumption. Violence and sexual content appear virtually everywhere, even more so today. Watch a recent pop music video and you know what I mean...

You used the word 'puritan' negatively. There's an argument to be made that secular points of view in the USA are the same side of the coin as majority non-secular values.

The bottom line is people in the United States of America can say,do, think, and believe as they wish because the gov cannot and will not deprive anyone of their life or liberty for it. Look at China, rapidly becoming a technological police state. People can be imprisoned for failing to adhere to the ruling party's political wishes.

Where your rights begin, others rights end. Because some kinds of people in the states wish for a more secular nation, is not a problem. It becomes a problem when some aim to silence, intimidate, and assault those who disagree, something that some elements of society do en masse (case in point: the university riots in CA). This is absolutely antithesis to what I wrote to begin this paragraph. Violence is not the answer regardless of how justified you think your cause is.

The beauty of this nation is that you can do say think and believe whatever you wish within the bounds of the law without fear of persecution from the gov. Other people are a different story, and if someone physically attacks you for that they can be deprived of their liberty.

For the record I don't think you understand exactly what these things mean.

Just wanted to set the record straight.

 

Might as well go all the way down the rabbit hole. What if its already happened? What if we already are living in a VR or otherwise simulated world? Could we even tell?

About the same as are living in real life today. We have a vast variety of options for people to loose themselves in fantasy worlds indefinitely. And yet very few people do. Most visit, some excessively, but always end up back in the real world. I suppose if you had heavy automation which took away the need to do anything in the real world, people might stay for longer. But I still can't see it becoming exclusive.

In terms of extinction, I see no particular reason why full dive VR should lead to a population drop. The human drive to breed is high. Its not just sex either, a large portion of humanity actually want to have and raise little versions of themselves. In theory you could simulate the whole process in VR. But even then you have natural selection to contend with. Those genes of humans that aren't satisfied by VR and raise actual kids will go on to dominate the next generation, leaving a population that is more inclined to raise real kids. Natural selection is viciously efficient in ensuring a population continues to breed.

It depends on how catastrophic the crash is.

Pre agricultural revolution (<~10,000 BCE) human population was measured in single digit millions. This is pretty much our bottom limit. However its hard to imagine a VR catastrophe so dramatic that humanity forgets how to farm wheat/rice/corn/potatoes.

Between the agricultural revolution and the industrial revolution (~10,000 BCE to ~1700 CE) human population hovered in the hundred millions. This is about the limit that can be sustained by an agricultural society. But its still pretty difficult to imagine society collapsing back to the point where humanity forgets electricity/steam engine/fertilizer.

Post industrial revolution (~1700 CE to today) human population has burgeoned into the millions. It hasn't stopped yet, so we don't know where it will end. Estimates for topping out are in the range of 12 to 20 billion. Honestly this is the area I would expect humanity to settle down in after a failed matrix attempt. Basically a reversion to today's conditions.

Either way it wouldn't take long to return to industrialization a second time around. With the remains of actual factories and electronics around to study, I can't see humanity taking long at all to recover.

 

Especially when you consider that there are not only a good number of farming simulation games out there but that they are popular at that. We'd have to completely lose interest in them before we would forget how to grow anything.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/787860/Farming_Simulator_19/

 

Duly noted. I don't think I'm wrong, but this is not a political forum, so I won't go into deeper.

 

Sorry, the way is phrased, I just could not resist

Spoiler

 

Since I am essentially a clone of my dad.... I can attest to this.

I actually know of a way that Earth's population may never reach capacity... and its already happening except for certain technological advances (not VR) causing populations to stagnate.