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I want to be a modeler.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by brade19997, Jun 6, 2011.

  1. brade19997

    brade19997

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    Hey, I create objects in 3ds Max and little bit with Zbrush. Mostly i create weapons, elements (like sidewalk, road, trees and theese kind of stuff), some times i created some buildings and some humans. Look, i'm not saying i'm professional but i just want to know how is it working for someone.

    If you won't like my works and you'll want that someone else will work for you, it's ok for me, just let me know that before.

    Sorry, i'd never took a pic of my works, so I don't have what to show you here... :(
     
  2. JRavey

    JRavey

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    For a commercial product, it's important that only commercially licensed software is used. Is your 3DS Max properly licensed for commercial use or is it educational? I ask, because it seems improbable that somebody would drop over $3,000 on a whim to learn modeling. Many small studios use Blender, because of cost and licensing, so it might be good to at least be familiar with that as well.

    In the meantime, put up some pictures, the worst that can happen is people don't like them. You'll survive that. If you aren't sure that you're ready for work-for-cash type arrangements, consider the Collaboration section.
     
  3. brade19997

    brade19997

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    All this time i used 3ds max on "Trial Version", i always reinstall windows and in that way i always use 3ds max in trail version. But when i'm thinking about that, maybe I should move to Blender...
     
  4. JRavey

    JRavey

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    That would actually create downstream legal liabilities for studios that care about such things, which they should if they are in the business of selling software.

    Either way, show off some of your work over in the Showcase forum.
     
  5. Apprenticeneauxs

    Apprenticeneauxs

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    If your serious about learning to model and want to work in the games industry do not waste time learning something like Blender as its not something mainstream and 99% of studios use Max or Maya. Learn Zbrush and PS as well. Taking traditional art classes would be something that would be in your best interest and even going for a Degree if you wanted to take it that far.
     
  6. CharlieSamways

    CharlieSamways

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    Use blender, I do, I love it.
     
  7. JRavey

    JRavey

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    Certainly major studios use Maya, but Blender skills are transferrable. Besides all that, there is the ethical matter. Would I rather hire somebody who was a good modeler, but not very familiar with Maya or somebody who is good at my specific tools but comes with ethical doubts? Speaking only for myself, I would rather the guy who comes without doubts.
     
  8. Apprenticeneauxs

    Apprenticeneauxs

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    @Jravey.. Well you wont be hiring about 98% of the qualified applicants that are worth having as they wont be using a poor tool like Blender. Also what do your ethics have to do with this topic? He wants to be a 3d artist and the advice I gave has to do with the industry as it is. Your personal opinions about ethics, while are not wrong to voice, were not asked for here. @ Brade19997 ...If you want to know what studio work is like the best thing to do is find some studio near you and try and get a summer intern job. Some internships even offer some pay. Good luck!
     
  9. JRavey

    JRavey

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    Lie, steal, and cheat. Great advice. Qualifications go beyond the explicit skills one has, skills can be taught, but a defective personality is much harder to change and a potential liability for your company.

    If Brade is in school, he should consider an educational license. Perhaps the Autodesk Assistance Program would be appropriate for him. You can read about it @ http://students.autodesk.com/?nd=assistance_landing . On a side note, that AAP would be good for you, Charlie, if you move to Canada. It's interesting that the AAP is not available in the UK.

    Anyway, that's all I am going to say about that, obviously we aren't going to agree on when it's OK to steal commercial software when acceptably good free replacements are available.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2011
  10. CharlieSamways

    CharlieSamways

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    Blender is not a poor tool, If you can produce a quality peice of material in blender better than someone in 3ds, Surely that tells you its not the tool, its the person using it.

    EDIT: arguing about tools is like saying mac is better than windows or windows is better than mac. equally, PSN is better than Xbox..
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2011
  11. kerters

    kerters

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    i would suggest Blender, which is a very powerful modeler and animator in the right hands. Autodesk tools are way to expensive and not worth the money imho. ;-)
     
  12. Apprenticeneauxs

    Apprenticeneauxs

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    I never told anyone to steal anything. You obviously have some sort of personal issues with morality as your still not addressing the issue.. the man never asked about your personal beliefs. He also stated that he uses Max already. He also asked what it was like working for someone. I gave him sound advice if he wants to pursue a career in today's industry. Blender is a poor tool for the games industry, however it is quite amazing for rendering and making films. Its just not set up for games use with higher end industry tools and various kinds of middleware thats is used. Kind of hard for it to compete with the industry standards.. but the point is that 98% of the studios you would work for will not use Blender so why bother learning it? Thats like saying I will walk backwards and then later someone can teach me to walk forward. Just trying to be helpful for someone who asked a simple question.
     
  13. janpec

    janpec

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    As oposite from game engines, that actually is true for 3d softwares. Most 3d softwares have all important and similar features so you arent lacking anything important in certain package. This means that if artist can handle blender well enough he can produce just as good work as in max. I am speaking mostly here for game design, when it comes to arc visualisation it is not even whorth to compare max to blender, since blender has poor render.
     
  14. brade19997

    brade19997

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    When you say "school", what school do you mean?
    I am 14 years old so i study in a regular school (not a special school for learning 3d or something like that).
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2011
  15. dogzerx2

    dogzerx2

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    you should learn zbrush if you have the chance!
     
  16. squid

    squid

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    I am currently looking for a modeler who can make guns and environmental stuff. i will give you credict for what you do and i wont mod anything you make. plz keep me in mind. i am working on a fps survival defensive based game.
     
  17. brade19997

    brade19997

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    What do you mean when you say "credit"?
    And i can't create anything if i use Trial Version..
     
  18. ivanzu

    ivanzu

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    Brade download Gmax its a free version of 3dsmax ,menus are the same so it would be easy for you switch on gmax use it in combination of blender beacuse it cant export FBX.
    GMAX
    Here is SCRIPT for exorting files in obj. format that blender can read.
     
  19. DjOscar527

    DjOscar527

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    Just torrent maya or max, why would you re-install windows every 30 days lol.
     
  20. Tiles

    Tiles

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    Have to disagree. Blender is a poor modeler. It still cannot handle N-Gons. You model with Tris and Quads here, by dividing faces. Which is a pain, and outdated since around 10 years. I would suggest to use everything but Blender for modeling.

    This may change when BMesh gets implemented, a software architecture that supports N-Gons. But i wait for BMesh since years. And it is still not in the Beta trunk. Bmesh is the Duke for Blender ...

    The bones system is not this bad though. At least when you get used to the very odd IK system.
     
  21. janpec

    janpec

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    Yeh reinstaling windows just for max is not whorth it.
     
  22. brade19997

    brade19997

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    Why it installed to me the program Fraps?
     
  23. ivanzu

    ivanzu

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  24. brade19997

    brade19997

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    Thank you.
    And the models i'll create in this program, will i be able to sell them?
    And why can't i export models to .fbx? .3ds?
     
  25. andyz

    andyz

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    There are no legit versions of max/maya for free if you want to make stuff for commercial games.

    But every non-indie games artist I've met learnt on a cracked version of max or maya and then went on to work for a company that buys legit copies for all its employees. I think the makers are well aware of this situation and there are student versions for [non-commercial] learning.
     
  26. alonzo

    alonzo

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    which company was that? never heared of a company buying software for their employees.. I think they just got a floatable borrowed license


    but to the topic... learn the 3d basics with blender and then go for something "more" professional like silo, modo, lightwave or cinema4d
    these are just tools... you are the person who uses it...
     
  27. Muzzn

    Muzzn

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    Actually, a lot of companies do. An indie team I'm working for bought Maya for all modellers, + Cs5 for some artists.
     
  28. ivanzu

    ivanzu

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    You can sell them or use them in game beacuse you get a license for it after installing.
     
  29. squid

    squid

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    I will have your name in the credicts in the beginning of the game and ending credicts. It will also be in the description. And what you mean by trail version?
     
  30. alonzo

    alonzo

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    a tryout version is limited for (as example 30 days) a time period. but these versions aren't allowed to be used for commecrial work.
     
  31. JRavey

    JRavey

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    No company should buy licenses for individuals, that's just crazy.

    For those that are interested in the specifics of a Network License server, read the following article. Schools probably use these as well as businesses.
    http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=4793616
     
  32. Daphne91

    Daphne91

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    actually if u not using the software for commercial but to study......as student u can go for
    https://students.autodesk.com/
    i think? but i dunno whether u need to be studying in college or something. But if u get to register that u can get the free maya or 3dmax with licence. But make sure u dun use for commercial... It will always pop out the alert whenever u save the file.
     
  33. windexglow

    windexglow

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    Do not learn maya. Using it was perhaps the most frustrating part of making my game.
    If you're learning, blender will be fine.

    Here's a good youtuber (who uploads batches every week~) who has a ton of tutorials across many modeling programs.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/cannedmushrooms#g/p
     
  34. TehWut

    TehWut

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    I acutally have to Agree with Tiles on this one. But you wait! Blender will have B-mesh integration in no time!
     
  35. saymoo

    saymoo

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    What?!?...wait a minute...
    so you are actually saying that all MAJOR game studios like e.g. Ubisoft Montreal, EA, Square Enix and many many many others, are all modelling with outdated techniques? (10 years+ old outdated tech?)

    come on, put of your pink glasses, and see the reality!

    ALL THOSE STUDIOS USE QUAD/TRI BASED MODELING FOR THE FINAL GAMES OBJECTS, so no ngon/bmesh must have!
    besides, tri's and quads are able to model everything you wish, and can see as human (in respect to what it must represent). For animations sake, tri's (and quads) are the best way to deform mesh parts without too much jitter of the surrounding parts)
    Heck, even Zbrush (the defacto tool in freehand modeling, in contrast to box modeling), uses tri's and quads underneath. No meastro in modelling (pixar people, high end artists in game modeling/animation, or whatever studio of importance) have difficulties with tri's or quads, and are able to make what they want.
    I would go so far, that if you really NEED ngon's or bmeshes, your topology flaws (and you're in need of a cheat method to solve it in some not clean way: ngon use!)


    You have made me smile, thank you ;-)
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2011
  36. janpec

    janpec

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    I have to dissagree with you saymoo. Triangles and quads are final output that is needed for game engine, but it doenst have much to do with modeling software. The thing is that 3ds max or maya are able to use ngons with any number of faces or verticles on 1 face, in blender you are very restricted with workflow of modeling. Also there are some apps like 3d coat, where you can do retopology and this software is able to use ngons with its retopology, but blender does not support them. It gets very dirty when you try to import such model in it. Its things like that.
    I wont mention 100 another very usefull modeling features in max that come very handy for modeling whatever you are doing and are not present in blender. And on top of all stuff i said, take in account Max and Maya ability to support hundreds of essential plugins and game engines while in blender that list is very thin.
     
  37. ivanzu

    ivanzu

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    You have to remember Maya and Max are payed applications,while blender is open source app with only few employees and the rest is made by other smart people.
     
  38. Starsman Games

    Starsman Games

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    It's been my experience to only use open source software if you can't afford a legal copy of a privately developed alternative.

    Gimp is atrocious.
    Open Office is extremely slow and clunky.
    Blender... well can't comment there because i never tried a paid alternative, but all I hear seems to point it goes down the same path.

    If the difference in quality between Blender and the cheapest available private modeling software product is as large as it's between Gimp and Pixelmator, or Open Office and MS Office, then I can see why pros like to bash it.

    For the time being, Blender gets the work done for me though. I refuse to try any alternative until I can pay for it :p
     
  39. TehWut

    TehWut

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    To each his own. I prefer the worfklow to Photoshop, although the windows can sometimes get to me.
     
  40. faultymoose

    faultymoose

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    I've worked in film, television and games, and I've been responsible for reviewing portfolios and reels of new applicants. I never review a reel in consideration of the software was used to produce it. If you are artistically and technically proficient, those skills are transferable. At worst, it'll take you a week on the job to pick up the nuances of particular software packages. I might ask you what software you use or list software preferences in a job listing, but those things will only matter if the decision comes down to picking at straws. Ultimately, the only thing that really matters is that you can do good creative work to technical specifications on schedule.

    Ignore anyone who tells you to "use software A rather than software B" unless someone at a specific company is giving you advice for a specific position you're in line for.

    EDIT: That said, certain packages are more workflow efficient for certain jobs, and have more training resources available. For example, it's general consensus that 3DS Max is better for modelling than Maya, and Maya is better for rigging/animation than 3DS Max. But if you show me great models produced in Maya (or Blender, or Modo, or Lightwave, or Wings) then I don't give a crap what software you used. There is an exception I should have mentioned above: 'Click-and-Render' packages like Poser or Bryce are not great for showing off your skills. I expect this goes without saying, but if you want to be a character modeller, don't send in a Poser model you've stuck some naughty bits on!

    It's immeasurably more important that you understand good topology, and how to optimise a UV layout, and how to optimise mesh for deformation, and how to stay on polygon budget, etc. than how to perform a bevel in 3DS Max or a polygon-bridge procedure in Maya. Those things work in (almost) any software.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2011
  41. xxxDjdogxxx

    xxxDjdogxxx

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    Let me tell you something, Dont work with a big group off the bat cause they will just turn around in the end and F**k you over...
     
  42. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    If you can model, really model - the package never matters, because once you know how to model, cut, push verts, form shapes and uv map properly, you can move between packages in a day. If it was animation, rendering or something fairly specific I'd agree with you. While I'm a diehard max user, I don't think being awesome at modelling restricts your job opportunities just because you aren't familiar with max. Great art is great art.

    Choices in the big places fall down to what tool does the job best, instead of one tool. For example, Capcom used softimage for all the characters, max for the backgrounds (purely because of max's baking of radiosity) and even id used modo in just about everything for Rage.

    Max only? no. Be flexible and learn the ins and outs of high level modelling such as edge loops, polygon flow and other stuff. Be really good. Doesn't matter if you don't know package X.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2011
  43. pixoloco

    pixoloco

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    I agree with hippo. A tool is just a tool. I've learned 3ds and maya during my studies but now I use blender/zbrush. All packages have qualities and flaws. But for poly modeling blender has more qualities than flaws.

    When i was 16, 3ds wasn't maxed yet, Softimage was the best for animation, maya didn't exist and zbrush wasn't even a dream. So i think that when you're 14 you can learn whatever you want, at 20 you'll probably use something else anyway.
    It's not a waste of time because what you will learn have nothing to do with the software.

    I agree.
     
  44. typane

    typane

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    given the original posts username ends in 1997, he / she is probably 15. So a lot of the solutions of going out professionally and getting a job don't seem that realistic at this time. If not, my bad.
     
  45. illiterate

    illiterate

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    Im another one for the, pick up the skills you need on one platform, and if your good the skills should be easily transferable.

    If you can model, the rest is just understanding an application.

    Im screwed both ways, I cant model or work blender :D
     
  46. cof125

    cof125

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    Sheesh blender is good it can do anything all the big production companies can do it's not the software it's the artist that makes great work blender is an extremely powerful tool there are masters who never touch another program. You dont need zbrush to create great looking models blender can use the same brushes and material data anything you can do in the big production programs you can do in blender with the new update for 2.6 cycles has improved the rendering engine big time complete overhaul and has been modernized. If more people start using it and contributing they can improve it more I donate whenever possible to bring in new features. Kick the big companies to the curb really download blender buy some books get some tutorials and learn if you get with a big company your skills in blender can easily transfer.
     
  47. Mr.T

    Mr.T

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    Blender is probably not in the league of 3dsmax or maya but it has its uses. If you plan on becoming a professional 3d modeler like the OP does, then yeah, you probably need to be familiar with the big guns.

    For an Indie Game developer, Blender is a good enough tool at 0$.

    As far as whether one needs a commercial version of 3dsmax, I have no idea. I have never used 3dsmax to create models. I remember reading this huge debate on the forums of TurboSquid, whether they should require that all sellers of 3d assets should prove that they have licensed copies of the software they are using to post the models.

    My guess is a significant portion of all that stuff you see on Turbosquid or any other 3d asset marketplaces is produced from, shall we say software that is 'dubiously licensed'. Have even seen stuff stating that some of these assets sold at 3d marketplaces are outright stolen pieces of work. Neither of the above(piracy or theft) are recommended of course but factors to be considered in that you are up against competition that sometimes spends nothing or close to nothing to produce 3d assets.

    Finally, yes if you want to join the games industry, you have to be good at 3dsmax/maya and a good sculpting tool.
     
  48. WedgeBob

    WedgeBob

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    What Mr. T says is true, my friend. If you want to get into professional modeling, you need to learn how to use the tools that you will be using in a real environment. I heard someone mention downloading Gmax before. This is one good option. However, there are others. Here is a tool that is from Autodesk themselves that is free to use for non-commercial learning, whether you're a student or not. It's called XSI Mod Tool. Here's where you can download that, and like Gmax, XSI Mod Tool is free, and does offer a toolset similar to what you'd be using in the real world.

    http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/u/pc/mform_proc?siteID=123112&id=13571320

    Oh, and you will probably want something to convert what you make in XSI Mod Tool to an .FBX to use inside of Unity, here's what you need for that:

    http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?id=6837478&siteID=123112

    All in all, these tools are way, way newer than Gmax, and the features are better, too...and it's from Autodesk, not from a knockoff company. Best of luck to you! Now in terms of whether or not XSI Mod Tool 7.5 was based off of XSI 4.2 or XSI 5.0 when it comes to the .FBX plugins from the archives, I can't remember now...but you do need the .FBX 2012 Converter to take the .FBX files from XSI Mod Tool, and make them more compatible with Unity, however.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2012