I combine many genres into one game,and it looks like a mess

I am a beginner, so I learned a lot of tutorials on Youtube. These tutorials teach many things, but not deep. So I learned something for this genre, and something for another genre.....

I know I can't rely on one genre because it's not competitve. So I decide to combine them together to make the game look stronger. FPS + Survival Factors + Crafting + Medieval Magicians + Zombies + Monsters + Scifi Ship + Farming Simualtion + Fishing + Billiard + Vechicle driving + Tower defence + Building constructions + Horror + RTS ... (some are not genres) anything I learnder from tutorials or assets.

Now I think it's difficult to make seamless combination, and someone feedback it's a mess. I still believe combining different genres together is my only opportunity to compete with other games, becasue I am not an expert in any of them.

The story for so different genres are OK with me, only as a whole it looks like a mess.

 

This is going to ruin your life. Find one thing. Find a way to excel at it. You are a beginner and you are going to spread yourself far too thin with your current approach.

 

Combining existing genres is not your only option, you can adapt existing genres and make them unique in many different ways.
Combining genres could be a good start if you can't think of anything new, but don't overdo it, especially since you're a beginner.
Doing tutorials is very different to creating a fully functional game. Even a simple 2d sidescroller is hard to polish and get it feeling professional.
You see far too many projects fail because they've bitten off way more than they can chew, every genre you incorporate into your game will make it 10x more complex.

I suggest you start off with a core genre, get a nice prototype with smooth controls, and then think of something you can add to make it unique. Don't plan to add all these genres in at the same time as it will turn into a big mess and will overwhelm you.

Off the top of my head... a mini golf game, but players get to place an obstacle at the start of every round
Even this would be tricky if you think about the all of the multiplayer implications.

 

I agree with what was said above. I would suggest that you stick to something more specific rather than trying to do everything. Some players don't like everything. For example, I like grand strategy and FPS games but I don't particularly like tower defense games. If you mix them together, I may like half of your game but not the other half. Stick to a couple of things and master them instead of spreading out and being amateur at each genre. You can compete as long as your game brings something new to the table that other games don't have. It may be something totally unexpected. It doesn't have to be what you know players want. It can be something that players didn't even know they wanted. An idea that nobody has thought of yet or at least hasn't been made into a game yet.

Edit: Plus you don't want to overwhelm yourself.

 

Can I use assets from asset store to solve the issue of polished? I think many asset looks very good to me.

I noticed too many asset-flip games on Steam, and they got less reviews or negative reviews. I think They failed beacause they bit very small.

I found some modular frameworks, they are very helpful for dealling with complexity.

Totoally agreed.

 

I want to find a balance. Because it is more difficult to excel at one thing than to learn several different things. Also I didn't find advanced tutorials, most tutorials are for beginners. So I can't find a easy way to excel at one thing.

 

Think about what you're saying. You are literally saying "it's too hard to be good at one thing, so I'm going to suck at a lot of things and hope nobody notices."

 

There's no way around it. You've got to come up with an idea and learn what there is to learn about it.

 

Maybe I can find some tutorials on how to excel at one thing or many.

 

I order to design a multi genre title, you need to know the gameplay loop of each genre, then nest these gameplay loop around a given progression system. Did you figure out the main gameplay loop?

Also watch this video, it's a team of people competent enough to have something working, and ask you if, being alone, you can do better than them.

 

The video is just the youtuber's personal opinion. I watched reivews of Ark, the players complain bad servers and bad players, not multi genre. For an open world, multi genres are necessary.

 

All you need is some finesse, brother. People will always naysay

I don't think I'll be forgetting that any time soon.

 

Multi genre wasn't the problem, it was the inability to make it work because it's too complex, even as a team, which is a common theme for game that hasn't 1000 or 500 dev like ubi soft.

 

Yes. It's more complex.

 

I'm not sure making larger asset flips would do anything except give Jim Sterling an easy podcast.

 

It's also possible to make a game fresh and interesting by removing features.

 

There is a good reason genres exist. That is because different people are trying to get different things out of games. Its literally not possible to satisfy my desire for complex multilayered strategy, my wife's desire to blow things to pieces, and my daughters desire for unicorns into a single game.

We'd all much rather play our own games, rather then trying to blow up unicorns while marching up the Siamese peninsula.

 

I just got one suggestion. One game designer said that's OK if I can manage timeline well. On the beginning, the main genre of the game is FPS+ RPG with some magic . In the later period, the genre of the game becomes RTS + construction building. Then different genres are seamless combined.

 

It's likely becoming a mess. You cannot just assume that you can implement the fundamentals and mechanics for multiple genres. My brother is working for years on an RTS, and he is still struggling to get basic RTS elements right, like path finding and AI. Even just moving in formation or somewhat reasonably is a heavy task.

If you do not allocate enough time to make ONE genre right, you are just making another shovelware, because nothing will have the sophistication and polish it needs.


A good example of the combination of two genres is Battlezone. You could build buildings and walk or drive around in vehicles you constructed. While the idea was great, the execution was quite lackluster, even though it had a high production quality. It had a real chance at success, but it didn't.

Another examples are the round based games which had RTS combat (although often stoppable). Not too popular, but a functional combination. But it's more a strategy to tactic switch, just like Heroes of Might and Magic. That turned out to work, but it is not or barely portable to multiplayer.

It is a great challenge to do that even with two... and you want to combine how many genres again?...

 

Battlezone is legendary, how dare you!

That game exist almost, it's Tim shafer's brutal legend, was not received well.

 

So it's a solution.

 

Thanks. I will study how to cover multiple genres.

 

You know, it is fine to combine genres. Maybe a survival RPG or a strategy combined with FPS. But geesh....how many are you trying to combine? SciFi, Farming and Zombies?

I am sorry, but when I read your post, I thought it was a joke, another person trying to get attention. It seems you are serious.

You say you will study multiple genres but you are not really looking at a multi-genre game. You are trying to throw in everything you ever experienced in a game into one big project. It will be horribly obvious to anyone who reads that description above on Steam that your game is being made by someone who is new to game development. Somehow, there is this belief that if you throw everything into a game then everyone will want to play it because it has everything anyone could want. You are going beyond game genres, such as strategy, rpg, etc, and you are also mixing settings.

Sadly, it does not work that way. Gamers want a focused game, not a pile of mess. My kids like certain types of games and if their favorite type of game tries to add something that does not fit, they complain. I know folks who will only play FPS or Action RPGs.

Of you course you can try it, but as people here are saying, it probably is not a good idea, especially for your first game.

I think....and I mean no disrespect, this is another of those posts where the OP already made up his mind and is looking for validation. Unfortunately, he did not get it but of course, that does not matter.

 

Here's another thing to think about: People generally like some genre's but dislike others. I, for one, do not like horror or RTS. I usually dismiss any sort of game that describes itself as one or the other. Maybe if you combine so many genres than that will give everyone a reason to lose interest in your game.

 

I made some shortcuts for multi-genre combination. For instance, I use Brackey's tutorial on Tower defence, by adding an FPS controller, and made some modification on node.cs and buildmanager.cs. It becomes a tower defence + fps. Only half an hour' work.

By the way, Unity's tutorial on Tower Defence is a lot more complex, and I spend 2 hours, got a lot of frustrated. https://unity3d.com/learn/tutorials/s/tower-defense-template .

 

That's tower defense but there is no FPS. You are missing the "shooter" of the first person. You've just made a first person tower defense game which is quite interesting actually.

 

Dude, if a multi genre game is going to be made successfully, its going to be made by a an expert with years in the business. Its not going to be made by a beginner on their first try. Focus on getting good first. Then go build your amazing game.

Tower defense / FPS is actually one genre mix that does work. Orcs Must Die did it well.

 

Choice. A task is made, and tell the player if the task accpeted, he must confront a horror scene. Thus the task is a branch.

 

Sometimes its worth doing one type of game well and not giving the player a choice. If he wants a choice he can go buy a different game.

 

I made some improvements on the prototype. Now I can select different turrets to build, and upgrade or sell them.

 

Cool stuff there ^^^ I want to see more and more of this.


here's a GDC talk I listened to earlier. It's pretty long and just reiterates the same point over and over, so once you get the basic synopsis the rest if just for entertainment. But anyway, they raise some good points you might be able to guide your own development with.

As you work on these simple games -- mostly focusing on just building your familiarity and efficiency with programming in the engine -- I think the basic idea of just banging out standalone gameplay prototypes -- just focusing on a single mechanic and making it fun to play -- is probably a great way to go. You'll not get yourself bogged down trying to design entire games, you'll start developing a sense for creating fun gameplay, you'll be working in a realistic scope.... I think a lot of student developers should consider working like this. Forget making complete games, just focus on making fun demos. You do enough of these, and what you are doing is building a library of modular game pieces you can draw from later.

Anyway's, thought I'd share.

 

well it doesn't matter if you have lofty goal, you have at least instant respect for not just talking and starting building/

 

Also Team Fortress 2's Engineer plays kind of tower defense-ish.

 

Just by combining fps and crafting alone doesnt make players who only like fps or crafting game will like the game,
instead player have to like BOTH game to like the game...
it means that you dont expand your target player that way, instead you've just narrow it down.. imagine if you combine all those genre you've mentioned...

 

Another instance for combining genre shortcut, I used Sebastian Lague's tutorial on top-down shooter. I change the 3rd person controller to FPS controller, and the genre becomes FPS + roguelike. The map is randomly generated and enemy spawned randomly.

Original:

 

Its an interesting idea, whether you can make an entire game without knowing anything. My guess would be no. The problem is you wouldn't even know what you don't know. The video you just posted, the bullets seem to come out of the top of your head rather than the gun and seem to follow a horizontal line rather than being able to aim up or down. Very simple to fix, but not covered directly by the tutorial presumably. Also, when you put models over the enemies (presumably the same zombie models everyone uses), you'll either need to have the enemies stop and attack and then deal damage rather than have it happen when they walk into you, or add avatar masks so that they can keep walking as they attack. Again, both easy to do but you'd need to know that it was lacking.

Also if you're using tutorials to do your programming, random level design, assets to do models and music, and in your other post you were looking for a writer, what are you providing to the game?

 

No. I build game based existed assets or tutorials.

So konwn unknowns are better than unknown kowns.

Yes, I need to fix it.

Tow down view is better for this demonstraion than first person view. The enemies do stop and attack. A minimap should be added for such demonstration.

I chose them and combine them from so many existed resources. And many of the resources are at average quality.

 

You don't get it. Core problem:

"I combine many genres into one game, and it looks like a mess."

It won't change. Nothing on your approach has changed besides getting confidence from people telling you the reasons why it will *keep being a mess* (aka fail). Are there good ideas among them? I don't know, I didn't see anything that is new or innovative.

"So [known] unknowns are better than unknown [knowns]."

Rephrasing: Do you want to insinuate that there is knowledge buried in you, even you don't know of yet?
Look, better read up on this: Dunning-Kruger effect.

I mean look, you can do whatever you want, but be aware that most, if not all people (with varying experience in game design) here, are telling you that you are *continuing to make a mess*. Why ask other people if you ignore them anyway?

 

Just keep doing it until you stumble on something gold. If you have an interest and a passion in the field, and enjoy video games enough to at least know what you yourself think is fun, then I think you will make something when the universe decides it's your time to shine. Follow the motions at first, don't try to make waves, but then jump into that ocean and make a big splash. You're gonna stand in your own way at times, and people are going to hate on you at times. Just do it anyway, like it's your duty.

 

I recall in your other threads you were specifically warned about mashing together features from different genres in a haphazard manner was a problem, but I also recall you saying everyone else was wrong. Horror zombie FPS with included fishing simulator if memory serves.

 

Just wait Joe, one of these days they'll pull it off, and laugh at us all from their gilded mansion.

 

Well at least he is showing stuff he build, that's one step further from the typical idea guy.
If he keep building maybe he will eventually go somewhere through sheer trial and error?

 

Two months ago I just focued on horror zombie FPS. I noticed the success of Freeman - one indie game combined with FPS + RTS, then I began to seek different genres for extending gamplay. I learned a lot coding skills by seeking different genres, even though other genres have no enough tutorials and assets like FPS has. So I have two problems: how to learn other genres effectively and how to combine them with FPS. Now I need time to reorganize them.

The demos in other threads:
One horror scene demo:

And typical zombie FPS:

 

The masterpiece from hundreds of monkeys banging on typewriters technique is not efficient though.

What the OP should be doing is taking his/her game ideas, drilling down to the core fun of the game, and working on making that the best it can be, rather than spreading thin across a lot of areas. Most successful games focus largely on 1 core experience. It is fairly rare for games to be successful that try to be lots of different things in the same game, and when they are successful they generally have lots of cash and team members behind them.

For example, it can be argued that the Battlefield series is really a mashup of several game genres in one, especially the original Battlefield 1942. It is an FPS, it is a tank sim, it is a flight sim, it is a battleship and submarine sim, etc. It though took an enormous effort and a large team to pull that off effectively, where each separate game within the game doesn't feel like a weak point. Rather they all were strong in their own right, and made for an excellent game when they all come together.

A solo indie dev trying that though is far more likely to end up with a series of half baked mini games thrown together, each detracting from the whole rather than all complementing each other. That is really just a factor of the time involved to do that all successfully.

 

if your problem is gameplay look at "gameplay loop" not quick summary, in depth article, start with lost garden blog

 

Of course, I wasn't giving excuse, I was observing he is above the trend of people who has lofty idea, and stop just there. He might not have jet engine, but at least he is walking. Starting teh walk is often the hardest path, lets see if he can actually go to te finish line.

 

I didn't think it was an excuse, and you may very well be right that he eventually can keep using his existing approach and get something successful. You are definitely right that completing and releasing something, anything, is far better than not completing anything. You're already way ahead of most people just finishing anything, and you gain experience and knowledge even with completed failures (maybe even learn more than if it was successful).

I just think the OP would increase his chances of success by keeping a fairly narrow scope to the game, and focus all energies into making that the best it can be. The game would get done faster, and would probably result in higher quality for the core experience of the game.

Secondarily for the OP I'd suggest avoiding a genre like FPS where the players are well known to complain about anything but latest/greatest graphics, and whine endlessly about even minor game polish or control issues. Stick to a genre with a more forgiving player base, and more open to typical new indie levels of graphics and polish.

 

I don't know. There are plenty of bad games and shovelware out there. There are many people who actually worked on games and failed to create a quality game, so "simply doing something" appears not to be enough.

 

Then you have Fnaf, after 50+ shovelware he stumble onto the gold pots.
Then you have Rovio, after 50+ failed attempts they had angry birds
Then you have flappy birds, after a tons of ignored games get the phenomenon.

The point isn't that just because you start you WILL end up with success.
The point is that to get success you HAVE to start doing stuff.

It's not enough, but it is necessary.

 

All developed in a shovelware engine.