Search Unity

  1. Megacity Metro Demo now available. Download now.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Unity support for visionOS is now available. Learn more in our blog post.
    Dismiss Notice

I can't afford Unity Pro (Indie developer)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by b43-14brett647, Jan 31, 2016.

  1. b43-14brett647

    b43-14brett647

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2015
    Posts:
    17
    I want to use Unity for my next project.

    Regarding specific details of my planned project which includes the need for procedural mesh generation, Unity is definitely the way to go (unreal still only offers some procedural mesh generation as beta).

    However, I don't fit into a market Unity is targeting right now.
    The two markets are:
    Unity Pro: ($75 monthly required for 12 months - basically $900+): For professionals: that is, people who use Unity as part of their job or already successful developers.
    Unity Personal (Free): For people who don't want to sell their game but perhaps play their creations with their friends and family.

    I can't afford Unity Pro but players and reviewers won't take my game seriously with Unity Personal due to its 'Personal' edition splash screen (referenced here and here).

    I'm an indie developer and I simply do not fit. They forgot about me.

    Solution:
    Make an indie license available.
    Here's some things to keep in mind as you figure out how to make this license:
    1) Us indie developers need to keep costs down now, but are willing to pay up once our project is successful. This means we're OK with you charging us $6,000 after we successfully make $80,000 but $900 now (or $75 monthly) is far too much. In other words, we'd much prefer to give you royalties (say, 10% after $20,000 yearly?).
    2) Let us choose whether or not to have the Unity splash screen. Besides, forcing your logo onto our games might cause us to unintentionally hurt the brand.
    3) Having Android Pro and iOS Pro as additional add on products is quite the blow to the indie developer. Right now, if an indie developer wants to develop a game for iOS and Android without a Unity splash screen that's $2700 more (for the first year) than what we can afford (that's three months rent!). Plus, add-on's make no sense under an indie royalty subscription system because preventing developers from making successful games on Android or iOS will also cost Unity as Unity succeeds when the developer succeeds in a royalty system.

    Here's hoping Unity wants to start making money off of us indie developers, cheers!
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2016
  2. netvortex_dc

    netvortex_dc

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2014
    Posts:
    126
    Why don't you finish your game under the Personal License and buy Pro once on release ?
     
    aer0ace and chrisall76 like this.
  3. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Posts:
    11,631
    I wonder if there is *any* truth to this at all.

    I mean I cannot imagine you've gotten into a situation where a reviewer/player, who has seen your promo material and deemed it interesting enough to warrant downloading and playing your game would *then* change his mind because of the splash screen?

    I also can't imagine reading a review that says something to effect of "Great game, but sadly it has the Unity Personal splash screen, so don't bother!".
     
  4. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Posts:
    11,631
    (I mean, whatever bad impression the personal splash may have on a player, can be easily dispelled if it's followed by a well designed main menu)
     
    ChrisSch, mh114 and der_r like this.
  5. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2013
    Posts:
    16,860
    If you don't like the price then use Unreal. It's has a royalty based lisence. Ultimately it's more expensive, but it's cheaper in the short term.
     
  6. Teravisor

    Teravisor

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Posts:
    654
    This or let users endure a bit until you accumulate enough money to buy pro. You can make a counter like "This much bought for this much. XXXX/1500$ (1500$ is the perpetual license cost, if you want timed license then make monthly counter?) till splash screen removal patch" on site if you're that poor and hanged on splash screen being bad thing...

    Personally, I don't care about splash screens (they're just one-time three-seconds things and I remember non-skippable NVIDIA intros lasting 10+ seconds) as long as game is good. And good games are hard to find so people won't care about splash screen if it's good anyway.
     
  7. neginfinity

    neginfinity

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Posts:
    13,554
    There is some truth on it. On steamcommunity forums, reaction "It is another unity game, avoid!" is frequent.
    Then again, steamcommunity has absolutely insane people which say "this game has 30 fps lock, therefore it is total garbage".

    Frankly, this is complete nonsense.

    If you fear that someone somewhere won't take you seriously, then you won't ever release anything. There's too many people on the planet, and no matter what you do and what you release, someone will hate you for that.

    So the solution is to stop caring. You can easily release the game as personal license and get pro when you cross over 100k thresold.

    If splash screen is that much of a big deal for you try another engine, like UE4, but keep in mind that UE4 is significantly more difficult to get started with. Another thing to consider is that Unlike unity UE4 doesn't require payments for android/ios development, but that's another story.
     
    ChrisSch and theANMATOR2b like this.
  8. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Posts:
    11,631
    Yeah, but doesn't it become the deciding factor when the game already looks kinda meh?

    "I don't know what to think about this game"
    "It's another crappy Unity game, avoid"
    "Oh, ok"
     
  9. Teravisor

    Teravisor

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Posts:
    654
    You've already showed kinda meh game without gameplay or anything to cling onto. Do you really expect people to pay for it with or without splash screen? It's only excuse for refunding/not buying, not reason.
     
  10. gameDevi

    gameDevi

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Posts:
    155
    You could just get a credit card and purchase a PC license and release your game. If your game is good then you'll make that back in no time. You can then use the extra cash to purchase the other licenses.

    That's what I would do if I was in your shoes.

    interests rates are so cheap now days.. take advantage of it now and go for it..
    Unity pro is for pro's.. and you my friend are pro.

    Good luck
     
  11. Xoduz

    Xoduz

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Posts:
    135
    Don't put yourself in debt that you cannot pay back if your game is not successful. Credit card debt can haunt you.
     
    Zuntatos, chrisall76, darkhog and 3 others like this.
  12. neginfinity

    neginfinity

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Posts:
    13,554
    I saw that argument being used against Torment: Tides of Numenaria. So, it is just people being nuts and the best idea is to stop caring.

    Do not underestimate steam community. Those kinds of guys First hear that it is using unity, then they write five thousands angry threads in game development forums, but often they don't even play the thing.

    That's the worst possible thing someone could do in this kind of situation.
     
  13. Tautvydas-Zilys

    Tautvydas-Zilys

    Unity Technologies

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    10,645
    If you put a 30 fps lock on your PC game, you kinda deserve that comment.
     
    alexzzzz, kittik, Martin_H and 5 others like this.
  14. neginfinity

    neginfinity

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Posts:
    13,554
    Nope.

    There's a choice not to buy or to get a refund, plus some of the best games I played were fps locked.

    Either way, someone who trashes the game because of framerate without even playing it first needs psychiatrist, in my opinion.
     
  15. Ryiah

    Ryiah

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Posts:
    20,956
    If you're going to purchase Unity Pro on credit you're likely better off with a business loan. Or asking family/friends.

    Most likely because they were poorly coded. Did you know Bethesda's games are FPS locked because their engine starts having severe issues if you unlock them? One common example is getting stuck in the Fallout 3/4 terminals.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2016
    chrisall76 and theANMATOR2b like this.
  16. SuperVoximus

    SuperVoximus

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2013
    Posts:
    102
    When I see a game is made with Unity, it makes me want to play it even more, because I use it myself, so it's always interesting to see what other people are making using the same tools.

    When I see an indie unity game, I feel even more compelled to check it out, perhaps it's because I can relate to indie devs, but to me, knowing that a game has been made by small self-funded team driven by passion rather than greed, or even better, a game made by a single person always adds value to the game in my eyes.
     
  17. neginfinity

    neginfinity

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Posts:
    13,554
    @Ryiah , that's a cheap excuse, and there is mountain of reasons why game would be fps locked. I'd expect any game developer to understand those reasons.

    Physic engines tend to get unstable in variable framerates, and standard recommendation is to make sure that physics run at fixed rate, and uses various approximations to accomodate for variable framerate that is higher than physics. Unity does this, a lot of games do this, and failure to do this may result in amazing situation where your game behavior changes along with framerate. Meaning a lot of hard to reproduce situations.

    It is an easier option, to just lock the framerate, tie it with physics which will cement game stability. Also, in something like Dead Rising approximating variable frame based fixed step is not gonna fly, due to insane number of entities per screen. Plus you'll have situations where you're porting existing console codebase from 10 years ago, and the whole thing is built from groudns up on fixed step. Converting that to variable framerate will be a suicide.

    Another issue is soap opera effect. If you're pursuing realism, and have very high animation budget, then unlocked framerate may be desireable, but if you're going after cartoon or anime look, then you DON'T want it, because smooth camera motion will break the effect. A good example of that is Guilty Gear Xrd. The game is 3d, but looks exactly as if it is sprite-based or traditionally animated. They did that by removing interpolation between frames for all animation frames. However, the effect instantly breaks in few circumstances where they allow smooth camera movement. Traditional animation usually runs on 12 fps, and switches to 24 at action scenes. In that case you'll get away with smooth camera move in side view, but if you try rotating camera around protagonist in 3d, the effect will shatter.

    Then there are fighting games. Once again, chaining the game engine to fixed framerate will remove a lot of headaches, and will make behavior predictable.
     
    Teravisor likes this.
  18. Ryiah

    Ryiah

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Posts:
    20,956
    Doesn't Unity have the physics run independent of the frame rate? Otherwise what's the point of FixedUpdate?

    The optimist in me wants to say it's easier, but the pessimist in me wants to say it's poorly coded.

    Fair enough.

    Or you could chain the gameplay mechanics to a fixed interval (ie Unity's FixedUpdate rather than using Update).
     
    angrypenguin likes this.
  19. Teravisor

    Teravisor

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Posts:
    654
    @Ryiah I think he meant in general (+other engines too)... I don't think a lot of FPS locked games were made in Unity...
     
  20. Ryiah

    Ryiah

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Posts:
    20,956
    A quick check for framerate independent physics shows PhysX does the exact same thing on Unreal 4. Either way though it is poorly coded. Why would you link anything important to your framerate? What if the user's computer cannot run the game at the required framerate? It reminds me of games from the early days of DOS that were not synced to the clock. Run them on newer hardware and they literally became unplayable.
     
    angrypenguin likes this.
  21. neginfinity

    neginfinity

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Posts:
    13,554
    The point of fixedupdate is to run collision detection queries.

    It is very easy to get very unpleasant jitter in unity when Update-controlled object is tracking FixedUpdate controlled object, by the way.

    The one who says "poorly coded" is not a pessimist, but perfectionists. Perfectionism is harmful in programming.

    Because that produces deterministic behavior. You really really would want something happening at predictable fixed interval in most situation. Also, networking.

    If you think that it is "poorly coded", do better job, release your product. Just think about all the money you could earn by destroying PhysX, unreal and unity at once in one fell swoop.

    I'm gonna turn that one around.
    If you can't guarantee that your game consistently running on 30 fps on modern hardware, it is VERY poorly coded. Also, said user would not benefit from unlocked framerate to begin with.
     
  22. Tomnnn

    Tomnnn

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Posts:
    4,148
    Just start recording your epic game trailers AFTER the logo. Collect $1500 in preorders. Remove that hideous logo that used to be good ("Powered by Unity").
     
    Gruguir, kittik, QFSW and 3 others like this.
  23. drewradley

    drewradley

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Posts:
    3,063
    How long has it been since the last "my game sucks and it's the splash screen's fault!" thread? Any minute now we're going to get a "my eyes hurt because of the light screen! Give me the dark screen!".
     
    QFSW, Kiwasi and Ryiah like this.
  24. Teravisor

    Teravisor

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Posts:
    654
    Arguable: depends on person. I'm going to leave that offtopic.
    I was just about to write it, but then I deleted that as it was in context of offtopic... So you can say you've guessed right. It might be problem, but I honestly think that user can close eyes for 3 seconds while splash is there and relax before playing game...
     
  25. Tomnnn

    Tomnnn

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Posts:
    4,148
    If light-skinned-unity hurts your eyes then just use flux :p
     
  26. Teravisor

    Teravisor

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Posts:
    654
    I was about splash screen being bright, not unity editor... Or did I miss context again?
     
  27. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Posts:
    11,631
    Or turn off the monitor!
     
  28. hippocoder

    hippocoder

    Digital Ape

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Posts:
    29,723
    I think the only valid case for 30fps on a desktop title would be for cinematic purposes with motion blur.
     
    alexzzzz, Ryiah and angrypenguin like this.
  29. Mich_9

    Mich_9

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2014
    Posts:
    119
    There plenty of reasons to lock a game to 30fps:
    • Your game isn't fast paced and doesn't need that much for a smooth gameplay experience: rpg, card games, etc.
    • For cinematic purposes as @hippocoder said.
    • To save battery on mobile devices.
    But lock fps because your game performs badly isn't one on them.
     
    angrypenguin and Ryiah like this.
  30. hippocoder

    hippocoder

    Digital Ape

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Posts:
    29,723
    Heard all these arguments before. They're always made by people who haven't released anything and are in a panic over something that does not exist, and has no proof.

    Those references contain zero proof of it being the case. If by reviewer you mean someone's grotty blog, then no. No actually-competent reviewer will mark down a game for being made in Unity. They would be the laughing stock of journalism.

    No, personal is designed for you.

    Unity has a personal edition. Release your game with it, make money and by pro. You don't expect Unity to work for you for free do you?
     
    Ryiah, Teila, Aurore and 7 others like this.
  31. Aurore

    Aurore

    Director of Real-Time Learning

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Posts:
    3,106
    (We're having some issues with some mod tools, a Mod accidentally locked this and couldn't unlock it again, sorry for the inconvenience)
     
    Ryiah and Martin_H like this.
  32. Teila

    Teila

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Posts:
    6,932
    So untrue. Lots and lots of developers use the Personal Edition and hope to sell the game.

    The only restriction is that you cannot use the PE if you make over 100k with your game/company.

    I am sorry, but it seems to me you want to make excuses as to why you can't make your game. ;) I suggest you start with PE and make some games, sell them, and make money to buy Pro.

    It used to be that the Free version had some severe limitations, but now it is the same engine as Pro, minus some services..and cosmetic things.

    A bad game is a bad game, regardless of who made it or what they used to make it. If you make a good game, it will be a good game.
     
    Ryiah and Aurore like this.
  33. LaneFox

    LaneFox

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Posts:
    7,462
    What you're really complaining about here is your budget. If you are indeed an 'indie developer' then you have a budget which is a realistic summary and acknowledgement of money you can dispense for development. If a Pro license does not fit in your budget then that is all there is to it and you must use another option such as the totally free Personal edition.

    The notion that the logo and text at startup will deter people is incorrect. For example, how will people know you're even using Personal until they buy the game and run it? Don't publish a demo build if you are extremely worried about this issue. MegaSphere is one example of an indie game that used Personal, sold copies in early access and moved to Professional. It had no backlash on how the game was perceived.

    Don't make excuses for your development problems, overcome them. That is what indies do.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
    Kiwasi, zenGarden, Ryiah and 3 others like this.
  34. zenGarden

    zenGarden

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Posts:
    4,538
    I have one advice, before considering Pro, try finishing a good game.
    If your game is trash, Unity Pro version won't help you :rolleyes:
     
  35. RichCodes

    RichCodes

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Posts:
    142
    Developers who aren't taken seriously are the ones who can't make a game worth playing using the free version of Unity.
     
  36. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Posts:
    9,042
    There are tons of things that affect a player's interest and engagement in a game. Even before we became part the mouse house, analytics was a huge part of what we did. The amount of things that draw a player to even click on an app, let alone download it are huge, name, icon, color of icon, description, size, reviews, screenshots, all of these are fully under control of the developer. The splash screen has zero impact on whether or not you can attract users. That is the biggest hurdle, getting the player to download (or if premium, purchase) you game. Once they start playing, again there are a ton of things that affect whether or not they keep playing, how quickly the game starts, FUE, initial starting point, obviously gameplay, visuals and UI. The splash screen lasts for less than a second before all that starts, and unless the splash screen is offensive or misleading about gameplay, it has zero impact on whether or not the player is engaged. In other words it is very, very simple, if anyone is affected by, or commenting on the unity splash, your game has completely failed to engage the player.

    The same goes for "bloggers" or "reviews", if someone bothers to review or comment about your game, and they mention that is created in Unity personal in a negative way (or even at all), that means your game is complete and total failure. If the focus is on a one second splash screen, they rest of your game looks bad and/or plays bad. Basically the splash is a complete non-issue. If that tiny thing draws any attention away from your game, your game is completely unremarkable. Time to learn how to not suck at making games, and spend less time worrying about a non-issue.
     
  37. zenGarden

    zenGarden

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Posts:
    4,538
    I could not say better ha ha :D
     
    hippocoder and zombiegorilla like this.
  38. Murgilod

    Murgilod

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Posts:
    10,083
    Remember when Unity Free didn't have basic features like realtime shadows, rendertextures, image effects, audio filters, and a whole host of other things?

    Yeah, I'll take the splash screen.
     
  39. alexzzzz

    alexzzzz

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Posts:
    1,447
    Why would anyone complain about frame rate in a card game? If it's an rpg then it most likely scrolls the map when the player moves. If it scrolls the map, I would prefer 60 fps instead of 30. I had a tough childhood playing Formula 1 racing simulator at 10 fps, so now I'm compensating. :)
     
  40. JamesLeeNZ

    JamesLeeNZ

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Posts:
    5,616
    Not a single reason of yours for needing pro have any merit...

    1. You dont need any of the features. Splash screen? get real and keep reading.

    2. Splash screen putting off gamers is stupid. The gamers that would hold the engine against you, are NOT the gamers you want. They will also never give you a cent, and will happily give you a 1-star rating. They are god's gift to you in their opinion.

    3. Wont get game reviews if personal. BS. Ive had two. One was for IndieGameMag which is definitely more than some S***ty blog.

    Make good game. None of this crap matters. Make S*** game, propagate the above problems by fitting the stereotype
     
  41. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Posts:
    15,614
    And / or: time to stop making excuses, take control of the things you can control, and stop wasting energy on the things you can not.

    Even supposing you do genuinely need to get rid of that splash screen then you know the cost and you agreed to it when you started using Unity. Find a way to get the $1500 or the $75/mo and fix it. That's something you can take control of, even if it's not easy. It's a path of action that will take you towards your goals.

    On the other hand, Unity's business model is not something you can control, and coming here and complaining about it won't get you anywhere. It is a path of action that can only result in wasted time and energy. (And also advice from Random Internet People. ;))

    Right now the splash screen is a barrier to you because you're using it as an excuse. You're letting it take the blame for things it probably has little or nothing to do with, which is slowing down your progress as a developer. If people rate your game badly or aren't interested in reviewing it then don't stubbornly blame the splash screen. Instead, find out why people aren't interested or don't like your game and get to addressing those issues. Even without the splash screen that is a process you will have to iterate through many times on every project you ever do. Also, in my hobby projects nobody has ever given me any kind of feedback that came down to the splash screen.
     
    Ryiah, Kiwasi and zombiegorilla like this.
  42. hippocoder

    hippocoder

    Digital Ape

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Posts:
    29,723
    Yeah and if you're *that* worried about a splash screen impacting sales you're saying that no matter what you make, would never earn $1500.

    That's a horrifying admission of defeat.

    You could easily earn that at launch and day 1 patch it.
     
    zenGarden, Ryiah and Kiwasi like this.
  43. TylerPerry

    TylerPerry

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Posts:
    5,577
    The splash screen that says "personal edition" is actually the good one, the Android one on the other hand doesn't even gradient to black it's just a small bar in the middle.

    Anyway just have a empty scene with a script to load the scene with the Android one this makes it only pop up for less then a second, the animated one could be different and have a minimum time so keep that in mind.
     
  44. Tomnnn

    Tomnnn

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Posts:
    4,148
    And then report in the patch notes that it was a bug and you were a pro developer all along?
     
    Ryiah likes this.
  45. RichardKain

    RichardKain

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Posts:
    1,261
    Ditto. Kids these days, don't know how good they have it.

    The current "Personal" edition of Unity is freaking great, and can be used to produce and sell whatever commercial project you please. Even the mandatory logo animation is slick and quick, without overstaying its welcome. I don't understand people complaining about the impression it might give. And I certainly don't understand someone turning their nose up at using Unity because of it. It's never been a make-or-break issue for me.
     
    Teila, Kiwasi, zombiegorilla and 3 others like this.
  46. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Posts:
    15,614
    Also, there was a time when it wasn't free at all. Even then, it was still the cheapest and most accessible commercial engine that I'm aware of. Before that... well, licensing a commercial game engine would require most people to mortgage their homes.

    I'll take the splash screen, too!
     
  47. RichCodes

    RichCodes

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Posts:
    142
    It's actually a conundrum for me nowadays. I could do everything I needed too without owning Pro, but at the same time I like the product so much that I want to support development.

    So that is the story on how I ended up paying $75 per month for a dark skin.
     
    Kiwasi, Ryiah and kittik like this.