I am done with Unity

Ive seen your posts, and if your so against Unity, then why are you still here?, why are you not at UE or another engine?. We dont need a negative naysayer, that doesnt "practice what they preach", take a hike. We dont need another Unity butthurt user, that only complains, and doesnt move on, if thats the case.

You dont care about your project, your just here to point out it flaws, and blame it on the engine. If you really cared about your project, you wouldnt be here...

 

I'm sorry, I don't quite get your point.

 

I did not state that quote (Waaaaaahhhh Waaaaaah), see previous statement. And if Unity isnt the better choice, then why are you here?...

 

To troll. And the only correct response is to not respond to them.

 

Depends on what "learning C++" means to you.

Spent roughly 4 years at the university learning C/C++ and I still regularly shoot myself in the foot while using them. There's still things I don't understand. There's a lot of code I keep staring at in awe for hours, wondering what the heck it's supposed to do. I wouldn't say I'm even intermediate at C++.

While the resources to learn are available for free, no, I don't think you can learn C++ on your own in your spare time unless you have +8 hours a day of spare time for a few years. "Regular" C# is kiddiescript compared to it, imho.

 

Is there anyone left at Unity to have the courtesy to respond to anything any more? They are not even paying asset store developers recently, what's going on Unity? Their behaviour is extremely is disturbing, and starting to cause a major unease and distrust. The Unity community deserves more respect, and let me tell you they are not 'F*** idiots'. I'm talking to Unity, It's really not that difficult for a company of your caliber to at least have basic customer relation principless in place, and get back to peoples concerns.

Is Unit Already Dead? If they are not, why are they not responding to anything?...

 

Not saying what you said is not true, but its sort of funny that you say this when you yourself are absolutely terrible at this and its the primary issue most users of your assets have, is you not getting back to them and citing bad or non-existent support as primary issue.

So I would expect you to be more understanding, given you also do the exact same thing

 

I see how you are trying to divert the issue, I'm talking about Unity and their lack of response!. Believe It or Not, the hierarchy starts with Unity, if they were more proficient and responsive that will reflect instantly on what we do, it's not as simple as you're making out to be. I'm sure you're aware of the recent events, 77% loss in stock price in the last 6 months!, why is that do you think? Buying a malware company, sacking 200 people. You wanna hear more?.. Dude , don't change the topic

 

I very much was not changing the topic, I was responding to your post.

If anything you are the one who is changing the topic by jumping on another persons thread to try and push your issue (which is already in its own thread).

If you want to start talking about lack of communication, you have to be prepared for the conversation to swing both ways. This is a forum, you are going to get responses, this is not a place where you can say what you want and not get any discourse or challenged around what you said You are welcome to ignore, but dont try and deflect

 

Everyone has past sins and can do better but a small dev like livenda has not got the same resources as a company doing 4 billion mergers. It's not the same thing so imo livenda gets a big old pass.

 

Much appreciated, what I really ment to say is we are here to do some amazing stuff and push the bounries in CG if Unity can pave the way, I really miss the good old days, when there was one Unity and not split into many versions, which makes it difficult for us to provide support. I'm hoping Unity can just improve their response and don't keep anyone in the dark no matter what. There is sooo much potential!

 

Honestly, that probably drives the current discontent more than anything, as there's nobody working with Unity who has not felt that problem the past couple years.

This could be a great moment for them to get Unity back on track for this decade, or where they really mess up by ignoring the devs that use this engine.

 

Unity's made it hard as hell for people like you to improve their engine. Honestly, without people like you - asset authors weaving a path of better quality and AAA visuals, Unity would've lost their shine a long time ago before investors put them where they are today.

Thanks for keeping Unity as high as long as you did. A shame that is repaid with fragmented pipelines, no documentation and a random asset store team without good support for asset authors.

 

So true. Old Unity was nice, new Unity is nice... but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you ask a big studio with the muscle to use HDRP or their own SRP about the current state of things, they would probably tell you "Old Unity" was too simplistic and rigid. If you ask a newcomer, he will probably be overwhelmed by the amount of options (3 physics engines, 3 render pipelines, 3 UI systems...). And if you ask a store publisher who has assets to maintain, he will probably start sobbing.

While I think having a lot to choose from and flexibility are nice, so are consistency and simplicity. I think Unity would benefit a bit from the latter.

 

I am a hobby Unity developer mostly I lack the real time do much at all but i keep track of Unity and its development over the years (and read the forums enough to see a few die hard Unity users in this thread ;-)
I personally feel Unity does not have a clear direction. They seem to bet on many horses at once and see what works and drop what does not after spending much development time or money to build or acquire components only to drop most of them at a later stage.
I do feel they are stepping away from being a game engine. and the number of Unity packages that never seem to finish or are even dropped over time does not help ether. However Unity has also made great process like the prefabs. If i look beyond Unity Godot seems a big step back at least for now. Godot 4 is in Alpha and does not yet support C# and i am not willing to use their scripting language. So that leaves Unreal but then i will have a bit of a hard time switching back to C++ that i haven't used for over 20 years. For now i'll stay with Unity until they money lock Unity or turn it into an even more bloatware/spyware product. If i ever get real time to develop i might switch then to en alternative engine. Who knows. Meanwhile ill keep tinkering around when ever i can find a bit of time and keep reading the forums from time to time to keep track of you bunch of game developer legends!

 

So true. I recently went looking for a good plugin for a game I'm making now and found that nearly 80% of them were broken in Unity 2021 and of those, half were abandonware. I feel like Unity could help the situation if the asset store page had a "Most Recent Verified Unity Version" field rather than what they have now which falsely implies that a library "supports versions from today on back to X"

Salute to the plugin developers who remain on top of things, they are heroes

 

Yup, as for C# engines it looks like we have Godot, Cry and Unigine. I saw some Unigine dev interview yesterday where he told that Unity actually does heroic-grade job keeping it deployable on such a variety of platforms.

 

Cry is in an iffy state right now. If you think Unity takes forever to come out with features just look at the most recent release of Cry that took three years and only included a small number of changes. If you're going to use it you need to approach it as if it will never receive an update again. Because that's very possible at this point.

 

Epic is a private company and Tim Sweeney owns more than 50% of the company so he do whatever he wants with the company.

 

Buh bye. The constant acidic arrows will not be missed by me. I mean.. you aren't even sarcastically funny.. just vomit and flame.

 

Drarma queen much? jeesh. And I will be vocal about calling your types drama queens. Fair enough deal? You trash my workday toolset I trash your emotional fragility.

 

Yeah..llike you started your daily shtick yesterday.

 

Oh..the irony.

 

Irony sauce

 

If you want to have a meltdown, I would suggest starting your own thread.

 

I mean, thats a kind of cheeky comment given the main thing you have been doing lately is jumping on other peoples threads and having your own meltdown....

If you give it be prepared to take it mate. You cant expect to not get called out for all the crazy amount of negativity you bring to 99% of threads you jump into. Sorry, but it IS very noticeable to most of us.

And usually when you get called out your response of late is "dont interact with me again" or something similar, which honestly doesnt really help any of the arguments your making and just isnt the way to interact with people on forums in the first place or create healthy discourse around any of these subjects.

If you do not want people to reply and challenge what you say, do not come to a public forum. Otherwise accept that it will happen, and if you are negative then well guess what, you are bound to get some negativity back.

 

Total non-sequitor = bad trolling.

 

tbh I dont think that either of you two are adding to the conversation right now

its starting to become an endless spiral of ppl lashing out against ppl for lashing out against ppl and so on
I suppose its a natural consequence of there not being a dislike button, but still, it kinda hides other posts of actuall relevance in all this pointless toxicity

 

The conversation. You mean this thread which started with waaah..Unity is not treating me special so i m taking my toys and rage quitting?The white knight has arrived on the thread sporting a demon head avatar. It is almost a full complement at this point. Dude..or dudette. These people are tiresome. I get on the forum to read and attempt to destress. To see falsehoods paraded blatantly by some day after day hijacking threads is bogus and needs calling out with sarcasm and direct observation of behavioral traits. I am old school;. I do not play by your rules.

 

Folks, please calm down. Ignore eachother for the res of the day.

 

Hate to say this (no offence meant), but you have already made 1 crucial mistake with your project, using 2021 version of Unity. If you look around the forums 2021 is a dumpster fire, and THE worst version to use. IMHO 2019 LTS or 2020 LTS are the best versions to use.

Example: 2019 LTS will support most all 2017-2019 assets, newer versions do not. So by using 2021 you have limited your asset compatability...

 

Thing is 2021 has several really good fixes people need. So that's often a rock and a hard place.

 

Also it is hard to resist new features.

 

I didn't actually encounter any issues when using 2021 LTS. But if you read, people are saying every single version of Unity (hint: only the one they're on currently) is the worst possible version and somehow will always be a baddie, and you should avoid it because your codebase is 100% totally the same of course.

 

And funny thing is, no one would ever upgrade Unity, from the version they started with Unity for the very first time.

But yet, people have in production projects on every unity version.

 

Unity 2019 LTS still has a 4GB asset limit per scene. Unity 2020.1 was the first version of Unity to fix that bug. There was a 32 bit limit to scene files in all previous versions of Unity. Anybody building a large PC game in Unity would need to use Unity 2020.1 or newer.

 

It's extremely easy to resist new features if you've been dealing with Unity long enough.

 

I just got told by Nintendo staff that I need to submit for lootcheck with at least 2020. My game runs fast and fine on 2019. On version 2020 it runs with constant spikes and slightly slower on the Switch hardware (~5fps to 7fps).
My codebase didn't changed, only the required packages by v2020 which i was forced to upgrade. So I guess some kind of inefficiency/regression introduced in 2020 DOTS packages? I do use DOTS in few places/systems btw (more specifically Burst and Jobs).
PS: I tried 2021 and it was the same as 2020 but worse.

 

Thing is, making games is sadly my life. It's all I do in between adulting moments. So, as sad as that is, I kind of need to enjoy technology and new things. That's probably why I haven't released anything in recent years...

I'm tired of this, I mean I might as well just use C++ and be done with things.

Actually the OP said that first. It is tiring just seeing your work get slower for no reason. Should never, ever happen if you're not in fact changing anything, and it compiles and runs.

Why is this acceptable?

 

Could it be the Incremental GC option that splits work across frames? that actually has a pretty constant 0.1-0.2ms cost, varying for that sort of range of hardware... even if you are not using it. So be sure to disable it. I think it probably popped up around that time.

99.9% chance you already know that. But hey, might as well take a shot.

 

Have you considered, instead, just playing a videogame?

 

Who's got time for Playing? We're MAKING over here.
But seriously, I rarely play games ever since I started with gamedev.

 

Incremental GC Is turned off. I'm not sure what the spikes can be, but when the camera rotates is jitters like crazy every 1 sec. Is not due to any of my DOTS as I just turn off those systems and did a quick build, the spikes was still there. I need to investigate and profile on device more throughout. But the performance is lowered on v2020 and v2021 not by much, few fps but when you see a degradation and those spikes after forced upgrading kinda set you off with frustration.

 

For me is actually the other way, I lost the joy of playing games over time, I get tired quickly with new games. Maybe because im a 90s early 2000s gamer and games nowadays are not what they used to be, also target a different audience.
I enjoy creating games way more. But besides, participating in the creative process of a game and making own dream's game, i always had a passion for tooling. Having direct feedback from other developers, supporting them, seems quite rewarding. As rewarding as creating games. When Unity started the ML hype, I also got instantly hooked. Lately, leveraging machine learning and language models for content generation in games. AI companions that hooks into the Editor and help you speed game dev. Also some sort of weird peer dev that you can randomly chat to if you are bored. Too bad Unity also fired the ML team.

If you have some spare free time, I suggest to try new things. Maybe something that you can learn with your current knowledge, maybe not directly game related. You might find joy doing other things than just straight playing or making games.

 

@ tatoforever Funny you say this... Ive been doing controller/interaction/physics work, for a team-based project, and i was imformed today that they are dropping the project, due to funding/cost. Ive been offered the core of the project, to turn it into something viable.

As you have stated "try something different", kind of peaks my interrest, as its a project thats horror/survival based. (post-apocalyptic), which isnt my usual type game to dev. It has a good core concept/storyline, and very tempting.

My only problem is, i just started a new project myself, which is developing nicely. So trying to make a decision between "something new", and what im currently deving, is causing smoke to come out of my ears, lol. You are correct, if you dont spread your wings and experience "something new", your not growing....

 

@tatoforever funny you mention AI, I've been waiting for years for it to become something substantial but it never did. A shame.

 

Matches all my experiences with many varied projects - shifting up a version is always slower. Shifting up two is more slower.

Editor also always slower in each "update", sometimes laughably more so. Packages balloon and run slower, too.

Jobs and Burst the sole focus of one of these projects, Shaders and texture rendering another, lighting and shadow rendering in another, particles and animations in yet another. All these projects run faster and cooler in 2019.4.16 (there's performance regressions after this minor version even in the 2019.LTS) than any later versions despite the projects having nothing in common.

Have not tested UI systems, nor input in this manner across versions, but suspect they're also getting slower. Am not using URP/HDRP, these are all tested with Builtin.

Burst compilation is so slow it's maddening. Especially given that the only way to refine usage of Burst is hypothesise, experiment and iterate as each scenario is often unique and much of what works best is undocumented and/or previously unknown or untested. Ironic that when getting things right with Burst, intrinsics, inlining and judicious use of the stack leads to truly massive speed gains of iterative activities. So much so that it can often make Jobification of things unnecessary.

Have seen much commentary about varying and slowing URP/HDRP and their various post processing performance as versions go up. My sympathies to anyone stuck using SRP.

Build and enter Play mode (recompile scripts) times also increase with each version, all other things being equal.

At this point, the need to upgrade to slower versions to target increasing target platform SDK requirements is looking like something that's going to drive Unity users away more, and should perhaps be a requirement that's reconsidered.

eg. How much work, for Unity, would it be to get 2019.LTS projects building up-to-date with each round of platform SDKs (iOS, Android, Switch, PS, Xbox), if they do nothing else to it other than this?

OR:
How much work to make 2020 run as fast as 2019? How much to get 2021/2 running faster than 2019?

Is this being thought about by Unity or are they focused on... well, I don't know what they're focused on.

I had thought they were ignoring mobile and the benefits of using Builtin for it, but were instead focusing on HDRP and Jobs/Burst/ECS for high quality massive worlds and product visualisations.

This looming merger throws that into doubt.

 

Unity's said they're happy to take a bit longer and so on. But here's the thing, it is already taking a long time. What needs to happen next is having an attitude where Unity really is making a single product that's updated every 2 years. Like a wow expansion, or Unity 3 to 4. Stuff like that. This way, internally, they can make something interconnected and planned ahead. That's a cost saving that also performs better. Pretty old school but the shape of practical game engine development demands it.

Then you don't get things like features that only partially work but labelled as shipped. That stops customers being pissed off, I think. I looked at HDRP's new volume injection thing. It's pretty limited in some ways because it wasn't planned ahead with the team that did the clouds and volume fog. This stuff can and should be unified and optimised but this almost meandering goal oriented sense of progress just seems to come from higher up. Like OK kids we added RT, now go and play with 1/4th the budget.

 

@d3eds
Totally that, I would add that It would've been a lot simpler if Unity extended the built-in pipeline renderpass (make it accessible through some API, allows for remove/disable built-in default passes). Which would've been more than enough to implement almost any kind of renderer (Cluster, Forward+, Deferred+, etc). I also belive that SRP existential reason is DOTS. More specifically URP, without DOTS is just a watered down version of built-in renderer, even with all the help of Scriptable Batcher. Is in fact worse, moving C++ rendering code to C# layer is not a good idea but I think once DOTS settles in (like not partially implemented but really fully running in the renderer by default), it will change the game and URP will become really the defacto of performance by default. We are still far away from that. Months or years. I'm not even sure it will ever be completed if things keeps the way the are now.

 

That's all a pipe dream. Because by the time Unity meanders and wanders to that goal, the goal posts will have shifted quite a bit. That seems quite common. Heck, most things won't be finished and will be deprecated.

In fact never, ever tag @jbooth when it comes to how many pipelines there REALLY are for asset authors to deal with. What the hell is this kind of crazy engine development?