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Humble CryEngine Asset Bundle

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Martin_H, Mar 15, 2016.

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  1. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    https://www.humblebundle.com/cryengine-bundle

    I thought this might interest some of you. Can anybody tell me if the assets may be used in other engines as well? If so, it sounds like a good deal for Unity users too. I almost suspect it's CryEngine only, since it looks a bit like a promotion event to me, but maybe I'm wrong?
     
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  2. Joviex

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  3. Martin_H

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  4. Acissathar

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    According to Cryengine's official twitter, yes they are restricted to CryEngine.
     
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  5. Martin_H

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    Thanks! That's what I was looking for.
     
  6. frosted

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    I might have to break out the time to read through that license agreement line by line and make sure you really can't use these outside of cryengine... cuz like, man some of those sound excellent.
     
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  7. ginconic

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    The license from the "terms" link is literally the new CryEngine eula. Which anyone, who has read it, knows contains a lot of crappy stuff. Namely the entire paragraph of 2.4. Aside from not letting you use it for architecture and porn (in that order of violation importance btw), you cannot "mimic" Crytek's games. That line actually makes using those assets dangerous. For example if you use the assets and make a game with Romans, well careful then. CT has a long history with messing up anything license related. Nowhere on the bundle does it say it is restricted to CE. But whether you'd like to put that to the test is up to you.

    Bottom line imho, pay that $25 or so and get the bundle.There will definitely be some useful stuff in there, even if that's for reference use only. After all it is for charity. And no, not for saving Crytek. For actual kids and stuff.
     
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  8. Murgilod

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    If you can't make porn with it, what's the point in having a game engine at all?
     
  9. ginconic

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    I know, right? Now that it's got all that nice VR stuff..

    But no, on the serious side it would settle you back a decimal fraction of a million to use it for architecture. Now that's a humble bundle!

    But enough on CE, this is a Unity forum. :)
     
  10. zenGarden

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    That's dangerous indeed if by inadvertance you would reproduce some scene piece.
     
  11. nickyoso1

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    If you sign up for the free Campfire asset pack on the humble bundle you get the following license included:

    So it seems you are allowed to use the asset packs listed above in Unity if you want. Just the asset packs containing the Ryse asstets etc cannot be used.

    Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
     
  12. frosted

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    Honestly, I'm pretty disappointed in the package. I haven't been able to open the Ryse assets, and maybe those save it - but the other stuff is like ... eh.

    The audio is 100% worth it though, so many of those sounds are immediately useful all over.
     
  13. Eric-Darkomen

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    In Europe these things need to be established at point of sale, Europeans have a simple legal defence for use of the Ryse packages in Unity - Humble have to supply what they sold you on the terms that were agreed at time of sale. No mention of restriction when I paid. In the event Crytek pursue you just point them at Humble because if there is any breach of terms it would be between Crytek and Humble Bundle Inc. who sold the packs to you without restriction...
     
  14. Martin_H

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    You don't want to just win legal battles, you want to avoid them in the first place.
     
  15. Tomnnn

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    Unreal did the same thing with the huge asset pack they released. Totally free! But must be used inside unreal engine.

    Can't wait for some mega budget game to fail after picking unity so their assets become freely available on the asset store :D
     
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  16. ginconic

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    @Eric Darkomen, uh oh you're up for a private conversation with Cry-Adam..
     
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  17. Eric-Darkomen

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    Absolutely true, but that's a double edged sword - cuts both ways and the PR mess is less meaningful to a small developer who can just rebrand than Crytek that's trying to play catch up with the likes of unity and unreal while they watch their market share dwindle into nothingness.

    Nothing like putting off new business by either becoming engaged in a big publicized court battle over IP or being seen to crush small developers. In fact the rush seems to be to create content marketplaces that are accessible by the lowest common denominator. Suing tiny producers over things like this may look like revenue protection but it's probably more sales prevention. Putting a popular charity at the heart of the argument will probably not help either - the marketing director would be on stress leave in a week. Tactically it would make little sense unless your product ballooned like Minecraft but in the event that happens your best option is probably just to stall the case until they die of natural causes.

    Licensing is becoming a bigger issue and we are the market. We shouldn't accept the idea that a license can be introduced or replaced on a whim after-sale. A license is a contract that needs to be agreed by two or more parties at the time of agreeing, not imposed by the biggest party 10 years later (unless stipulated in the original contract). This is a principal thing that will affect most of us at some point.

    As regards the Unreal totally free stuff, you may be right, the argument may stand. That said I didn't part with any money or benefit in kind so perhaps less of a righteous position.

    Most marketplaces will provide some protection for their suppliers in their terms so your Unitys and Epics of this world are usually protected through careful legal provision and I would check your contracts with them before applying a similar approach. In the case of Humble they don't seem to have provision but then their business is not set up to handle this type of product.

    They are of course responsible for how they offer the product in the same way that if I bought your assets and then sold them in a way that was in violation of our agreement you would pursue me, not my customers. In fact as regards title "Products are owned by Humble Bundle and contain proprietary information and intellectual property rights that are owned by Humble Bundle and/or its licensors, and are protected by applicable U.S. and international intellectual property and other laws and conventions." making Humble the owners and target of any legal action from Crytek resulting from how the product was sold to you - I have no contract with Crytek, I work with the product owners, Humble. They can sue you in turn but I don't rate their chances. Our transaction was concluded in accordance with the original terms of the online shop and the sale - both of which I have taken copies of.

    Not that I have any intention of using the Ryse assets in anything but if I did their protections seem less than water-tight to me and I take great offence at the idea that if a company thinks that if it sends me a letter after our business is concluded to say they want more money or more control over my purchase after-the-fact that I must just comply. I would definitely spend the money on an IP lawyer to check it out.

    That said these marketplaces all have provision for suspending or cancelling your account and refusing to do business with you for any reason so tread lightly if these relationships are important to you...

    Anyway, enough stirring of the pot for me, that's just my read. You vote with your wallets in the end.

    Having said that, any guidance from the legal eagles at Unity would be cool...
     
  18. TimCabbage

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    Unfortunately once Your game is selling and Crytek demands the takedown, Steam, GOG and other stores will simply take it down until legal battles are resolved... which can take years.
    So yes, it would kill Your business, and although they would be the bully, they would have every right to do so.
    Just because it would shed bad light on them doesn't mean they won't (or shouldn't) do it. You can always get a refund if You don't like what You got or if the license was not to Your liking after You actually read it.

    And I would advise anyone not to use any assets Licensed for CreEngine in Unity projects that will ever see the light of day.
    Except those from Madison Pike, for which I got the asset pack of course, those can be used anywhere.

    Placeholder art is good:)
     
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  19. Tomnnn

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    Especially with their recent accessibility for small developers. Media reaction: It's a trap!

    It could be memes though. Movies have the wilhelm scream, unity can have... robot kyle. Stick him in every game made in unity, and make him appear somewhere.
     
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  20. TimCabbage

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    That... is actually a good idea :D
     
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  21. Eric-Darkomen

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    You miss the point, I have a license which I exchanged money for, you cant ignore that and replace it with something else as it suits you - oh by the way, there's a slip of paper in the box that says you owe me $100 000 000. I don't want a refund that releases you from our contract, just honor the terms as they are :p

    Takedowns etc, just make small producers want to avoid the risks of working with said partner - certainly anyone managing a library of licenses would be wise to steer clear. We have options, as competitive as it is right now I don't imagine that would be a wise move to start suing users or killing their products. Its about knowing when to hold em, when to fold em and when to use your gun and I don't think Crytek would have a bright future if they started blasting from the hip right now. They need to appear more attractive than the competition (hence the price) to get a sliver of market share as-is.

    Most memes I think could get a pass under the parody/satire clauses in IP law depending on how they're positioned anyway.
     
  22. frosted

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    Are you guys really finding any of it useful enough to warrant serious discussion of the license? Maybe it's because I didn't download cryengine to unpack the Rome assets, but the other stuff is ... really eh.

    There's a random mismash of stuff: there's a very nice sleeping bag in the camping set. A couple of the nature elements are sort of nice looking, but nothing special and getting them to look right in unity is probably not worth the effort.

    The audio is probably the only thing seriously worth any discussion, and even then - this is going to mostly be limited to super generic sounds like footsteps, equipment rustle and bodyfalls.
     
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  23. Eric-Darkomen

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    Ye, none of it is really worth mentioning tbh, but for me personally the licensing is the most important element of this conversation. As marketplace after marketplace springs up on the internet I feel that getting this right is becoming crucial to delivering a fully featured product on a micro budget especially as we own less and less and license everything from the development tools to the wordpress theme these days. I develop and sell licensed physical product for my livelihood so for me it's the principal of the thing, if I let my licensors change our contracts as they see fit without my agreement after they had my money (or my investment in say retooling a factory) I would be screwed.
     
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  24. frosted

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    Fair enough, for me personally going through the license in serious detail would probably be more time consuming than it was just taking a look.

    After taking a look I decided that it wasn't worth thinking about. Most of the stuff you're getting in these packs, if on the asset store would be in the "this product has no reviews" category if people could actually see the example content before purchase.

    Although again, the Rome assets may be more complete/useful, but these are in a proprietary format.
     
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  25. Tomnnn

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    Why worry about the license when a simple change of perspective is so much easier?

    mental frame: "The assets are a cryengine exclusive? Must not be that good."
     
  26. darkhog

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    I'd love Unity to do something like that bundle with some high-end assets like ShaderForge or Probuilder. That would rock. But before then we'd probably need some sort of "giftcode" system on the asset store so those could be then activated.
     
  27. Kasko

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    There's actually a giftcode system already implemented, it's just well hidden. I too wasn't aware of it until I received a code for testing a new available asset.

    To redeem a code , you have to login into your store user account (not the forum one thus) and under the "notification settings", there's a section "Redeem voucher" where you can copy/paste your voucher/gift code and hop, the asset is added to your library. ;)
     
  28. darkhog

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    Cool. Now, Unity please make such a bundle happen! This would be really awesome, esp. if you could get things like ProBuilder or ShaderForge on a pay what you want basis.
     
  29. zenGarden

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    Unity should have made a game then.
    Because Cryteck put their game assets on the Marketplace assets to allow users getting started quickly on new projects and producing high graphics from scratch that will showcase CryEngine better.
    Also this could make them a good money income.
    Their marketplace will work as the Asset Store (3D art, plugins) , still i don't know how many percent they take on sales ?

    It is not guaranteed the authors would get a good benefit if that formula.
    A lot will just throw 5$ to get the tool.
    And you can't compare Asset Store stuff and engine price, Cryteck allow you to pay what you want to use it, but their marketplace Assets are not "pay what you want".
     
  30. TimCabbage

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    I did not miss the point - I know that there is some legal ambiguity on the Humble bundle part as well as Crytek's licensing of content, but that ambiguity simply makes those assets unusable. Nothing more.

    If You bought a game and tried installing it and saw that it requires you to install Steam, even though You were not aware of it because the advertising was different, then You can always get a refund and in some cases even some "gratis" like an extra game for up to 10 bucks or something.

    A license that You purchased was included in the content and that's the license that is binding. Ambiguous or misleading advertisement is not a legal contract.

    And I'm not arguing that it's good or even okay to do those things, I'm just trying to explain that "I though I was getting X and got Y instead" is grounds for a refund, not "I should just get what I thought I was getting".
     
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  31. CaoMengde777

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    wow screw cryengine lolol

    hmm ther thing changed .. used to be stupid royalty, and like you had to submit an application or be approved or something..
    well they did that before, so id say screw em they missed the opportunity to attract Me lol
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2016
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  32. darkhog

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    Obviously it would be up to developers of assets whether they'd like to be included in such bundle, but it would allow for people to buy tools they otherwise can't afford. AGFPRO is almost constantly featured in various bundles and that's how I've obtained my copy. Such move for Unity would also bring a lot of positive PR for both UT itself and developers of the assets who participated.

    Protip: You can always find 1,000,000 people willing to buy something for $1, even if it's crap (case in point: Digital Homicide is still in the business). You'll have hard time though finding 1 person willing to buy something for $1,000,000 even if it's best thing ever that no one else sells.

    In both cases net result is the same: You get $1,000,000. That is, if you can find that elusive one person for the second case...
     
  33. ginconic

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    Importing assets in CE is hell, converting them back would be the equivalent of installing CE on windows 95 or something like that. Unless you use their source code to write a proper tool. But why bother?


    Why don't we make our own Humble Bundle? Here is how it works:

    everyone who wants to participate throws in an Unity- ready asset. The bundle goes on sale. Then there is voting and whoever provided the best asset (or top ten) gets a share of the profit. And/or part of the profit goes to charity, like CT did..
     
  34. zenGarden

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    Yes this is one bad aspect and packaging that is hell also and not fully automated, the engine will stay with a niche of users.

    AGFPRO seems abandonned, i'll make another check. I didn't seen any game made with AGFPro, it is not so amazing tool and more like some starter kit for beginners to play and learn Unity.


    Unity is well known they don't need that to make advert, anyway it's Unity job to look if such bundle would really bring value or if the effort is not valuable to make it happen.
     
  35. antislash

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    did you actually import assets in cryengine ? could you elaborate on wich assets are hell to export ?
     
  36. ginconic

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    I've worked with CE quite a bit. Importing into the engine takes it's own cgf format. Which from time to time gets changed. Like when CE went 16 bit precision, there was a limitation on scale. The exporter is still quite picky about things like your geometry, uvs, or collision proxy and sometimes exporting a simple mesh can really take a while. Another thing is, CE uses it's own tangent space for the normals. There is no CE tangent space calculator for xnormal; you have to bake to object space and use their conversion tool. The list goes on...

    Which leads us to the question how easy (or hard) would it be to possibly convert the Ryse assets from that bundle. Exporting geometry from the engine is easy, but you cannot easily get the lods and the collision meshes. Even if you manage, you'll have to convert the pbr textures to, say, unity workflow. And then we get back to the normal maps- they will be useless in Unity. So you have to re-convert those.
     
  37. Eric-Darkomen

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    Advertising is not a contract at all, you need agreement for a contract. A sale however is. You can't append terms that aren't agreed unless there is provision in the agreed contract or under the law.

    (12) "Contract", as distinguished from "agreement", means the total legal obligation that results from the parties' agreement as determined by the Uniform Commercial Code as supplemented by any other applicable laws.
     
  38. antislash

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    i also used CE for a while, found no problem exporting geometry really... some assets like vegetation may need a specific setup, but don't forget that CE has touch bending, and a pretty nice vegetation shader, a decent terrain system thats make a difference with unity.
    If i'd criticize the CE export pipeline it would be on the animation assets > skeletons, skins, xml files, mannequin etc, a real pain. (but i don't forget CE has pretty things like speech recognition out of the box)
    i guess the FBX support will ease that
     
  39. Acissathar

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    Careful, you don't want to become a co-defendant now do you? ;)
     
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  40. ginconic

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    I guess you've been lucky enough never to have to get familiar with one of these dialog boxes: But yeah the engine is packed with nice stuff, no doubt. I actually use the CE foliage setup for grass in UE4, the vertex coloring stuff is pretty smart. My point is CT never tried to make the engine easier for others to use. I has always been like "we are the best, this is the best engine, you go out there and learn how to use it our way".
     
  41. antislash

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    yeah i had the degenerate face thingy ofc, very annoying.
    i think CT just di'n't have enough cash to make CE their main business unlike unity, CT had good titles and a good engine that they tried to monetize, but with not enough money on it.
    and yes graphically-wise, that's the best engine, even better than UE , but the interface lacks the friendliness of unity and the versatility of UE.
     
  42. Tomnnn

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    Jim Sterling dealt with his first cryengine humble bundle game. It begins.
     
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  43. antislash

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  44. ginconic

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    OK, that. is. hilarious! Those Ryse assets though. I think we can get a pretty good idea of what's coming to Steam in the near future.

    PS @antislash that's a really nice model btw.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2016
  45. antislash

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    like dogs have fleas, game dev has the "oh yeah ! i made a game" people...
     
  46. darkhog

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    It isn't. Every so often I receive updates on steam on it, even if there's nothing in terms of release notes and whatnot. Also, while it isn't good game MAKING software, it is wonderful as third party level editor.
     
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  47. darkhog

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    They can kiss my butt as I'm not US citizen or even live in US. And Polish law is more lenient in terms of defamation, you have hard time proving it and of several cases filed by various politicians against journalists in Poland, most were dismissed or defendants were found not guilty. Also yes, I realize that was a joke, thank you.
     
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  48. Tomnnn

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    Good for poland. It'd be great if the country screaming for 'freedom of speech' and freedom in general the loudest actually gave a damn about it. Can't wait for trump to make america great again - and by that I mean tick off the neighboring countries, get nuked, and become a land no longer inhabited by americans.

    Back to the topic at hand...

    How come newbies who make cryengine games can't seem to ever get a good or even stable framerate?
     
  49. darkhog

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    The same reason it happens with Unity too - lack of experience and packing up every possible shader & effect.
     
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  50. Rasly2

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    it is funny, they said those assets are worth 22 millions but i dont even want to pay 10 bucks for it. Anyway I sense a S***shtorm of copypaste shooter.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2016
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