How to tell a story in game? First you need to learn from Hulk

They talked about tradional linear story which are no long favored. I think nonlinear story is good for indies, because integrating nonlinear -not linear - story can save time and cost.

 

I read many articles about story in game. Even they have different opinions, they all use definitive sentences.

 

You're wrong. In ... well, every single statement in your post here.

- Traditional, linear story-telling is just fine. It is done in many games nowadays, especially in indie games.
- non-linear story-telling is not "good for indies"
- non-linear story is harder to make and balance, it is harder so it is slower to make which means it is more expensive

Take a look at a couple of indie projects, you find linear story-telling everywhere. Just a couple of examples:
- Ori (any of them)
- Cuphead
- Hollow Knight
- Firewatch
- Edit Finch
- etc, etc, etc...

Some non-linears are:
- Gone Home (kinda', but it has a very obvious restriction)
- Ethan Carter (actually a very badly made non-linear story, it mostly only makes sense if you play it linearly)
- etc, etc, there are others

Should I go on? Actually most of the indie titles have linear story-telling. (Or it is a possibility that you don't know what linear exactly means in this context)

You don't have to listen to me. But you can't say I didn't warn you. And you're not an article and you have no authority in the field. Those who wrote those articles made clear that there are opinions and not definitive answers if you have picked it up, and they probably have some authority in the field (they actually made some games using the ideas they are talking about, you didn't).

 

Good point. You're right, and I need more work to conclude the point.

When I make a linear story, I will meet the issue as AcidArow asked, I have to make everything smooth, and tell the gamer reasons and answers.

But in nonlinear story, you just provide graphs and tables, let the gamer make the conclusion process.

There is a hidden advantage of nonlinear story, if you are missing something in nonlinear story, the gamer will fill the gap with their imagination, it lowers the requirement for indie's writing skills.

 

There is no defintion for fragmented story (pieces story), so I use nonlinear story which leads to confusting.

In this thread, I begin to use fragmented story instead of nonlinear story. Nonlinear story should be replaced with fragmented story in my previous posts.

 

You really have no idea, what non-linear story-telling actually means.

What you have described here is only game mechanical story telling. So you use certain game mechanics and stats to tell a story or reinforce certain ideas. That's good and all, but alone it is not a non-linear story.
The main difference between linear and non-linear stories is the linear story consumed and presented linearly, so one scene or action follows another in a predefined manner. This is easier to write, because you write the story, break up to pieces according to your mechanics and pacing and integrate into the game.
The non-linear stories are tricky, because you have pieces of information and scenes and action but you allow the player to consume it in any kind of order. So you are not sure what piece follows each other.

 

I realized I mistake nonlinear with fragmented. I don't mean to create the story with many branches. I mean create a game without a story, but with componts which can be built into a story.

 

Absolutely. OP is stating his opinion as if we are all agreeing with him and if we do not agree with him, he finds something else to say and then watches to see if we agree with him. Kind of amusing.

Not hard for me to make a story, it is more difficult to make it work in a game. But...does not stop many of us from trying. It is certainly not impossible as the myraids of story driven games out their show us.

It as if @hongwaixuexi only knows of games that are not story driven such as competitive combat games and puzzle games like Tetris. Has he really missed out on all those games over the past 30 years. lol

When living in a bubble, and we all have our own bubble, one tends to think everyone is like him/her. Of course that is not true. But we have all said this over and over again and he does not seem to want to hear us.

So..I do think he is a troll or someone who wants to get up his post count. lol

 

That's because different people like different things, the other thing you've failed to learn.

 

And they have different results, and I want to figure out which one get good result.

 

That's the reason I post some thoughts on this topic.

 

Yes, there is. https://penandthepad.com/fragmented-narrative-3326.html

In games, all narratives are fragmented (if you have any kind of gameplay which is not integral and tight part of the story). Because you deliver your story fragments between pieces of game plays, usually. Between these fragments you reinforce your story with environmental story telling and some behavioral as well. And it is not opposite of linear story telling, the fragmented story can be consumed both linearly and non-linearly.

Of course we can argue whether or not the linear story-based game with only QTEs is a fragmented story or not. I myself see QTEs as (very-very-very bad) game mechanics.

Good results? What does that mean? What result? What is your goal? You haven't defined any goals so you cannot have results.
And as I already asked you but obviously as you usually do you haven't answered, what is your target audience, what they like? What they usually play and why? Do you have any idea about these? If you know these, you might have a slight chance to get any result.

 

Thanks. But this article is about movies or books, fragmented is more complex than linear. While in game, fragmented makes things easy.

My defintion for fragmented story in game: just story settings. For instance, to describe a plauge, don't describe the patients, just let the gamer found one page diary by a child, then let the gamer explore the abandoned hospital.

Make good game and prosperous studio.

Audience like serious game. For indies, it's no necessary to study them.

 

Have no substantial difference in this context.

As I said above linear story can be fragmented. So your statement has no real meaning.

??? How? Why?

Surprise: this sentence has no meaning.

You're mistaken by things here. You're talking about one textual story piece, followed by some environmental story-telling. But you need to write the whole damn thing to get there. (The "exploring the abandoned hospital") And you need to set up the clues what describe your plague through scenes and places inside the hospital. Those should be integral parts of your story, otherwise it's just a pile of story-pieces shoveled together. (And I'm not even a writer, so I guess Teila or other members of this forum, who actually writes can tell you better.)

Well... then do it. You will see what's working and what is not.

Good luck with that (seriously).

That's not a target audience. That's a wishy-washy definition of a very big group of people who like different things. You need to narrow it down a bit more.

ROFL. On the contrary. Indies should know their audience even better. Much-much better. Because indies don't have the funding to carpet-bomb the market with marketing campaigns. Big studios have (AAA). They don't need to know their target audience that much because they have the money to just rely on marketing to sell their game. Indies don't. They have to rely on more precise definition of their target audience and try to target them specifically to try to engage them to buy their games.

 

If you really wanted this you'd already be making games.

 

Even experienced developer will spend much time on designing, why make game in a hasty way?

 

I posted a media link "speed run for dark souls 3 in 35 minutes". Do you feel the story from the speedrun? You can check reivews(website or Youtube) on dark soul3, and all gamers say the game has a very good story. Do you know why?

 

An experienced developer will spend much time developing.

 

And in vain.

 

So you're continuing this "I don't answer anything but pick one thing which I can somehow turn into something completely different topic which has nothing to do with what we were talking about"?

Okay then, good bye, I'm done with this again. Lure me in twice: shame on me.

 

The difference is that you need a wirter in movie and book, and you don't need one in game.

If you can write story outline, and you are still far below the requirement of being a writer, but you are qualified to make game with fragmented story.

 

I need time to prepare answers.

 

It’s less in vain than endless theorizing.

 

Dose theorizing have other bad resutls besides wasting time?

 

"dark souls" have good story while the devleloper spent less time on it. "Fragmented story" is the key.

 

If your goal is to make a game, then yes.

 

You are expereicned. You still learn game design theory, does this harm your goal to make a game?

 

Not making a game harms my goal of making a game, yes.

 

When you begin making a game, do you have a story at hand?

 

sigh
I won't be trying explain,

Code (CSharp):

1. ( waste of effort, as you unable to understand things ) || ( don't want to ) || ((most likely) you love trolling )

I already expect whats coming.

 

It seems I should keep the topic focusing on game story.

Fragmented story has a theory base - the gestalt law.
Below are black points, and some may feel it's a dog.
Fragmented story works like this. You provide a lot of story piece, and the gamer will do the rest.

 

I think players always have a meta-game, but if the game they are playing is simple, then the meta-game is also simple. Like, tic-tac-toe, a child's game. The game is very simple, and the meta-game is about developing a strategy, then eventually realizing the game is very limited.

 

Gameplay first, then begin to make story.

Is it OK?

Some support material:
How To Start Your Game Narrative - Design Mechanics First - Extra Credits

 

It depends.

 

Wow. You doubt Extra Credits who has 2,160,000 subscribers.

It depends. Depend on what?

 

It depends on what kind of game you're making, on what kind of person you are, on what you're trying to achieve, on how you're feeling that day, on whether you're working with others, on whatever.

If what excites you about what you're making is the story, how or why would you start with the mechanics first?

Actually, scratch that: don't start with one thing first, all elements inform one another and evolve one another. But that only happen if you're actually making a game. Pro Tip: Doesn't matter what you start with: JUST START.

 

Failure rate wiil be higher if start with story.

 

What does that even mean?

 

Extra Credits said , you will be able to deliver a better story in a game than you'd simply started with the story first. I know it's not what a lot of people want to hear.

 

You can do this by making more convincible words.

 

So, giving you the benefit of the doubt and maybe your English is not very good....do you want advice on making a story in game or are you telling us you are giving advice with your thoughts on the topic?

Because if you are giving us advice, I think maybe you are a bit off. You are giving advice on putting story in game but you do not seem to even understand what a story is and how it would work in a game compared to other types of media. I seriously suggest you go to Amazon and look for a book or two on narratives in video games or character building, or novel writing, or anything like that.

I am sure may would love to give advice, but the way you come across makes me feel as if anything we might add to the discussion would be torn apart and ignored. So it is not the effort. If you are sincere, I suggest you read, and then come back and ask some real questions, be humble, and listen.

 

Because it is very very general and vague and does not always apply. lol Love extra credits but....doubt they said anything that definitive.

More than likely they said..sometimes, you can deliver a better story in a game if you create the story after the mechanics. Also, based on having watched almost all their videos, they are very strong on games with stories and push them constantly.

So...puling one sentence out of one video and using it as some kind of definitive statement makes the claim lose all context. Read what I said above and decide....are you tell us what we do not want to hear...without any substantive discussion about why you think that? Or are you here to learn?

Because..honestly this thread has started to become very boring. lol

P.S. I also doubt PewdiePie and almost everything he says and he has more subscribers. Best to learn from more than one source.

 

Extra Credits is a terrible resource for anything. This is what makes teenagers think they can be game devs without any skill whatsoever and that just talking about games makes them game devs.

They also decided to branch out and become politically involved, god knows why...

 

I think the game Doom has fragmented narrative.

Let's excersise some narrative:

INTRO -
Use some FX and good
illustrations or animations:

Fade In. Epic Music in the background.

In the year 1200, one group of Time Travelers
planned a revolution against the Dark Forces
of Evil that had the World under his foot.

Fade Out.

Start Game: Insert clues everywhere about the History,
inside NPCS, inside objects, inside little Cutscenes
(even a screenshot like: 100 years later will work)
and dont put it all in a scroll with text.

You can have a Newspaper inside your game,
even a RADIO (gta 3), and yes, narrative
it's important in a piece of entertainment,
i don't think one style has more prevalence
than others.

So, in conclusion you want narrative. Little or much,
it will depende not just in your skill to do it, even
asking others for help, but what about SETTING?

It will not be the same to do narrative in Middle Age
SETTING as it will be in the year 2039 SETTING,
because you will have different problems to solve.

Thanks for the thread again.

Even more, you can do a game based on the 90s or based
on the year 1950 game development, as long as it is FUN to play,
it's a game.

BUT!

You can have a good history and crap game.

Even more, there are players that loves crap game too.

So, there is some problem here to solve? Nope.

 

The articles in English about fragmented narrative in game is rare, and I found these information from gamers. And it's hard for me to show the thought in English.

 

Thanks for your example.

And some games wth fragmented narrative:

Darksouls seriers, Her Story, Silence Hill, Horizontal, Portal Knights, Sekiro.....

 

Don't ever attempt to fabricate someones quotes, which never took place. It can be easily checked how you falsified it, if in doubt.

I keep this in case need prove, of attempt of misinformation

Spoiler

 

Don't misunderstand. I delete the picture of your quote for its size. Then there's nothing in your quote. So I add "one picture" for placeholder.

 

Maybe you can share more thoughts on fragmented narrative.