How to talk with top gamers for horror game design

I know some gamers who have strong passion on games, and they continously provide suggestions. While they are not game devlopers, and have no idea of game design.

For instance, I want to shift my focus on horror games. I talked with one gamer who are expert gamer in horror game. He checked my demo, and said I need a writer. Then I asked a lot of questions like how to change my current scene etc... His reply sounds reasonable and experienced. He let me use hints intead of frankly speaking. How to design the basement if the enemy is a human, and the difference if the enemy is a ghost. He is a big fan of silence hill.

I have no budget for a writer, and he also has no confidence for wirting a plot and related gameplays for a game because he has no experience in game design. I can't help him because I am also a beginner on game developing and I played few games.

I want to find a way, so I can get a horror story with related gameplays by talking with him. Is there a list or manual on how to achieve this by asking?

 

Not everything has a manual.

 

So game design is more like empiricism

 

you should google more...
this one is one of my favorite. too bad that its more of ue4 and cs content now..
https://www.worldofleveldesign.com/...art1-survival-horror-level-design-cliches.php

there are 5 parts. also you can check l4d and l4d2 design there..

 

In before writing, beginner or not, you must have something you want to tell or a goal to achieve, it's only when you can start applying rules to structure it. The only constant is that you want to make game, but you don't seem to have a goal with what to do with games, not even a simple one, all your express goal are external (make money). You need to have an interest in the subject you tackle to get somewhere and not change goal everytime you meet a challenge.

Find a clear objective first. Or maybe your friend has some wish that can help you? what he would want from an horror game? what kind of experience? and is it specific enough (not like must have a story).

Maybe at this level, since you are so unsure, you should just do your own take on well known idea.

 

Here I hunted a bunch of how to step as you seems like to like those:
https://quizlet.com/31805377/8-elements-of-a-horror-story-flash-cards/

https://tobiaswade.com/how-to-write-a-horror-story/
http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2011/10/11/25-things-you-should-know-about-writing-horror/
https://thewritepractice.com/7-steps-to-creating-suspense/
https://www.nownovel.com/blog/how-to-write-horror-story-tips/
https://www.wikihow.com/Write-a-Horror-Story
https://www.aresearchguide.com/write-a-horror-story.html
https://www.ingramspark.com/blog/so-good-its-scary-how-to-write-a-horror-story
https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Write-a-Horror-Story-2/
https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/children/2018/how-to-write-a-horror-story-by-dave-rudden.html

Write a story first, then figure out how to turn it into a game.

If you really think you can't have ANY idea:
http://springhole.net/writing_roleplaying_randomators/creepypastaplot.htm
https://ukwrite.wordpress.com/2014/10/22/write-your-own-spooky-story-with-random-plot-generators/

Spoiler: You can always fixed flawed generation, here is raw one

The Curse of the Stripy Knife
A Horror Story
by Mr Pseudonym
Whilst investigating the death of a local homemaker, an incredible navigator called Mike Blast uncovers a legend about a supernaturally-cursed, stripy knife circulating throughout Scotland. As soon as anyone uses the knife, he or she has exactly 45 days left to live.

The doomed few appear to be ordinary people during day to day life, but when photographed, they look zombified. A marked person feels like a splendid puppy to touch.

Mike gets hold of the knife, refusing to believe the superstition. A collage of images flash into his mind: a chilly cat balancing on a frantic homemaker, an old newspaper headline about a drunk driving accident, a hooded mouse ranting about elbows and a drinking well located in a magical place.

When Mike notices his spots have puppy-like properties, he realises that the curse of the stripy knife is true and calls in his grandfather, a nurse called Mathias Parker, to help.

Mathias examines the knife and willingly submits himself to the curse. He finds that the same visions flash before his eyes. He finds the chilly cat balancing on a frantic homemaker particularly chilling. He joins the queue for a supernatural death.

Mike and Mathias pursue a quest to uncover the meaning of the visions, starting with a search for the hooded mouse. Will they be able to stop the curse before their time is up?

Don't forget the secret to be good is to start doing stuff and failing up until it's a success, nobody start good.
Confidence is not what you need, what you need is to start doing stuff, it will not be good, then it will be good eventually down the line of many try.

 

Thank you so much. I will study them.
I like
https://quizlet.com/31805377/8-elements-of-a-horror-story-flash-cards/ , if they show an example on how to connect the 8 elements with a story would be better.
https://www.wikihow.com/Write-a-Horror-Story , I like detailed article as a beginner.

 

Just make simple games man. Too much convoluted thinking. Let 80% of your work be done with the eyes only, and only use the brain when you can't get by without it. Otherwise you get yourself into trouble.

The questions you should be asking right now are, "how can I make a game with cubes so fun that people will give me money to play it."

And you answer that question by making games with cubes.

 

Only at golden time, game with cubes can be made fun. Now it's different time. The players have higher requirments.

 

Are you at the stage where you have the prerequisite knowledge and experience to be seriously considering making games for a retail market?

 

Yes but you don't seem to have the skills yet, you need to build the skills up, and you would be surprise what an experienced clever dev can sell with just cube.

 

I am seriously considering making games for a retail market. I myself has no prequisite knowledge, but I like to find resources. I don't want to reinvent wheels, and I found modular assets give me more power to make a game. I got one animation artist's support two days ago, he will provide me custom animation with student-price. I want to make some glory kill animation, and he made one, and I made a demo below.

I also talked with some gamers for a story and gameplay design. They play games many years, and have a deep understanding. Now I am looking for a way to transfer their experience into a game plot and gameplays.

I know Tony Robbins' s suggetsion maybe not work. But the way his thinking maybe has something useful.

 

I know I don't have required skills. But others have. That's why I watched every tutorial on Youtube and look interesting assets in asset store. I talk to gamers for advices. In fact, I got many suggestions about different demos. I didn't stop to modify the demos, and I keep going. Maybe I made a mistake here, I should modify the demos first or at the same time.

 

If you can't make a fun game with unity primitives, you can't make a fun game with a hundred million dollars.

We aren't talking about selling games. You aren't anywhere close to that yet. You have to lay the foundation. Forget about the chandeliers and the wallpaper.

 

You won't make a decent game until you've made a S*** ton of lousy games first. You don't need any money to make basic games to start gauging your audience with. If you want to be a programmer, or a designer, or both, you have to learn 1 : how to make games efficiently from a technical standpoint, and 2: how to guage your audience reaction to deliver better iterations of your products.

You can waste time theorizing about games all day and probably get nowhere. Or you can start making games, deliver them to actual humans, and watch quietly to see what happens. Then, that's the time for thinking. After you have watched and listened. You take what you've seen, develop a new plan, and try again.

This is how you be successful at ANYTHING. You got to have perspective. The work is the boss. You are not the boss. You do not say what is what. The work is the boss. You watch and you listen to the boss. If you don't respect the boss, the boss will hammer you hard. You cannot usurp the boss.

You are the tool. Learn about this tool -- it is all that you have. Maximize it's efficiency, and keep your mind focused on what the boss is demanding. You don't got to be smart to know yourself and maximize your output. You just have to know where you stand in the big scheme of things.

 

Well if you are doing the job, you still need to have a clear vision with a great hooks you don't seems to be close to have any now. But expect failure, and expect to have to start over another project until you have enough success. A retail game take 3 to 7 years to make (design phase taken into account). You would also need original assets, especially visual, so maybe find someone to make the art AFTER you figure out the identity of what you are trying to make.

A common trick used by industry veteran is to make a lot of prototypes, and look at what works and what don't, using primitive. Then once they find one they turn it into a polish game with great art and all. And to find teh visual, they don't model right away, they do concept art to find the visual identity.

Here how unchartred looked like when they were making the game and how it ended up in the game, and even that low details version is already an advence version after they figure out how the game actually plays, so they had worse version prior to that white stuff.
https://rebrn.com/re/how-early-level-design-looked-in-uncharted-3534796/
http://giant.gfycat.com/ForkedCanineGalapagostortoise.webm
https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1w88cu/gif_showing_the_design_process_of_a_level_in_a/

 

WHat you need to learn and research is teh game dev process

 

I think for the beginning indie wanna-be, this chart could be boiled down to :

single gameplay mechanic brainstorm idea > prototype with unity primitives > playtest with other humans > rinse and repeat until people are begging for your next cube game.

Then, you've got a wealth of experience under your belt, and making a big "complex" game is something you can feasibly do from your library of modular game mechanics. Best of all, you haven't wasted any money, nor wasted time speculating and pipe-dreaming.

 

In traditional areas like engineering and drawing, I totally agree with you. For games, 50% agree.

Game engines evoluted so much, and in future maybe a beginner just click one button, and a new game is finished.

Even game engines stop improving. Games are not like engineer product, the more quantity you produce , the the quality you can make. Games are a litle like a mix of art, luck, fashion and all your work. I looked Steam carefully. First most developers only release one game. For others, the sequel games are not always better than the first. Games bring people feelings like a movie.

In fact, I begin to doubt 10,000 hours law.

Even singer

 

Alright. Good luck!

 

Thanks for so much reference. They are too complex, and I think I will choose guerrilla process.

 

I just read part 1, that is so good.

 

That image was for reference only, I mean you need to RESEARCH, not look at my image I google quickly and says it's too complex, you won't ever know given what you share. It doesn't matter how guerilla you go, you can't put the cart before the wheel.

 

Tell that to the roguelike community. ASCII (and ANSI) is positively ancient compared to the graphics you claim are dead and yet there are people who not only are perfectly happy playing them but would argue that a game can't be a roguelike without support for them.

https://old.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/

 

Also time to remember that both pokemin and minecraft were smash success with game vastly superior in "mainstream" visual. Just like Unturned is still one the top play steam gamewith blocky graphics and roblox is smashing so much that it's vernacular "oof" has become internet lingo beyond the game community.

 

Okay.
Here's an almost easy way to figure out, how to design a horror game.

Make/prototype a simple horror game, with just cubes.
And make a simple looking 3d enviroment, with simple cubes obstacles
or sphere obstacles and an exit on the other side.

The grey cube is you the player, and the red cube is the monster
programmed to chase after you, through the stage. And when you
reach the exit, you are saved and win the game.
If however, the monster red cube touches you, it's game over.

Or make lots of red cubes, (monsters), chasing after the player (grey cube)
who has to get to the exit, to save himself.

After playing your test game a few times, you'll get a basic yet good idea,
of how to design a horror game. And you'll understand the feeling and
immersion, that horror game fans, like in horror games.

You can use this basic idea, to understand horror games, before you make
your own real horror game.

 

That most likely wont work for horror game (at least for me, I cant be not scared easily I think). If I have to choose between cubic horror and text based horror, I'll most likely go with text based since it will easier to fill the gap between the game and the player since there's still plenty of room for imagination, while OTOH, it will be hard to imagine/believe a horror story where your visual is filled with a bunch of cubes (or ascii character) chasing around another cube(or another ascii).

Are we still talking about horror games?

 

You would be surprise
- minecraft: creeper stuff and the first night when the game was out (or cave)
- Pokemon lavender town and some pokemon description has created many existantialist realization into player, and that song man, brrrr

Horror isn't just about scary, it can be about dread, game like fnaf wasn't about the scare jump, but the dread when you start to piece the lore and understanding what's happening, it's about uncertainty, anticipation, and existantial realization. When you have something cheerful and it hide a dark undertone it's kinda effective because you aren't expecting it, hence why the overuse of children in horror.

 

basic horror game : make a maze from cubes. player has no weapons. First person, limited FOV, slow turn radius. a big bad capsule that moves faster than you is in the maze and if it touches you you will die. Players only chance is that the capsule makes eerie footstep noises that echo. So you go slow and listen. You hear it coming down the hall way, you got to decide quick if you want to risk moving quick

Take it one step further by cluttering some stuff on the ground that is shiny. Make the environment dark with just a few rays of moonlight. If player doesn't notice shiny stuff on floor and steps on it, big bad capsule gonna get him.

So you can use basic FPS controller, and work on basic AI movement and detection via sight and sound. Important stuff. You also start thinking about whats the minimalistic ways you can use basic sounds, lighting, and player controller to build suspense and tense gameplay.

Try something like that first. All the FX and animations may be necessary to make it truly terrifying, but get the basics down first. Maybe it takes a few days or a week to get up and running. Then get some friends to play it. Write down what they say. These are your notes for the future.

Then, high on your great success, try something new.

 

I don't recommend primitives for a demo because of immersion. I think free asset probuilder is much better.
I want to use probuilder for quick prototype on map design, and I still don't find a fit tutorial.

 

Not everything is going to have a tutorial. You're going to have to learn to teach yourself.

 

I just want to save time. Tutorials are very helpful for saving time than self learning.

By the way, I find a tutorial of Probuilder (10 hours work remake a Doom scene), it looks cool but it was made 4 years ago.

 

Yeah, but if you spend all your time looking for tutorials instead of teaching yourself you're going to waste more time.

 

When I was in the army, there was a group of guys who were always talking about how they were gonna get "swoll". They just had to wait for their supplements to ship in the mail. Couldn't get started without the supps.

They never got swoll. Didn't even get in good shape, besides the exercise that was mandatory.

 

I have the habit of searching for tutorials before start to learn.
Sharpening your axe will not delay your job of cutting wood.

 

You haven't picked up the axe.

Just get started. You will surprise yourself.

 

I think tutorial and supps are important. They failed because of other reasons.

 

They failed because they won't do work. I know, I was there.

 

I was like you, once.

Then I learned to teach myself. I stopped relying on tutorials and started relying on implementing concepts by learning how things worked rather than how to do things.

 

That's my next step. In fact, I met a lot of difficulites there are no tutorials.

 

So how about work smarter or work harder?

 

It's the only step.

 

You inferred his message incorrectly. He was merely saying that you should make your game in the vision you want, with shapes, so that you can quickly play and test your game idea to know if your idea is worth the weight of your shoes or not. I think what you're trying to say is that creating the environment will help you form an idea of what you're wanting to create. These is always room in the middle.

After reading the rest of your post, just, bless your heart man. If you wanna make a game, you owe it to yourself to at least; close your mouth, open your eyes, make at least tic-tac-toe. You've got a lot of hubris stored up, not a lot of practical things to show for it. That works for some people. I don't see it working out too well for you at the moment, though. You gotta make something tangible man, reach into the aether and grab your prey.

Edit: Have you even spent a day and a bottle of wine with ProBuilder to try and get to know it? And by the way the idiom 'work smarter not harder' has the word "work" in it, which he was crystal clear on saying that they didn't do. And supplements are something you get after you've proven to yourself you have the discipline to even need and use them right, I used to do a little sculpting.

And there's plenty of times sharpening an axe can delay your cutting wood. But what I think you're describing is more akin to watching someone else sharpen an axe. God forbid you read. Bully for you for trying though, to infinity and beyond.

 

The problem is that some people find teh axe edge is never sharp enough, so they grind it up until there is no axe left.

 

Change that to "so how about work?"

Answer : yes, work. If you start off working too hard, you will quickly learn how to work smarter.


Now, how about that tower defense game you'd been working on. Whats going on there? Maybe you can spin that into a horror game somehow?

 

Let me save you the time. If you can't learn how to be a game developer with the resources already available then you have no chance at being a game developer because the people you will be competing with for jobs have had no trouble learning with at least these resources and in many cases far fewer than these.

 

I’ve found that having the end consumer involved in giving advice for the pipeline is always counter productive. It’s the same for all mediums: end users know what they dislike, but not what they like. Media is all about illusion and psychology and what really scares you might not be what’s obvious.

For example: what’s scary in the movie Jaws?

The shark.

Is the wrong answer. The shark itself is not that scary. What’s scary is that the shark can see you perfectly, but it’s essentially invisible to you. This is one of the scariest scenes in Jaws and the shark is not seen it:

. Most people’s hearts skip a beat about a minute in on the music key change.

My point is you won’t get great advice about design from end users. Horror is all about manipulating psychology. I write horror short stories, I have a set process of lulling the reader in then building tension slowly.

 

I don't know why people think they will just be able to learn to be a game developer without putting in any serious time (and no money.) Nobody is complaining that they can't become an engineer or a plumber from free youtube tutorials.

Whats the issue? Do people think playing games = making games?

 

I want to become a game developer who can see patterns and organization.

 

Then carefully watch how other games work and how the systems interconnect with one another. You don't need a tutorial for that, you just need to pay close attention. You want to do things the fast way, but in doing so, you ignore all the nuance that comes with the concepts being explained to you.