How to let the gamer have emotions from game? ....More data!

Board game has no interface.

 

...yes it does.

It's in the name.

It's the board.

 

Great. If I just make one board, that means I make a game.

Excel also has an interface, why not call Excel a game? Maya, Blend ..... have interfaces too, why not call them game. If interface is game, you can't tell difference between games and other Apps. Because every APP has interface too.

 

How to let the gamer dev have emotions from game thread? ....More data popcorn!

 

You learn fast.

 

My dude, wait until you learn about what a steering wheel is.

Did you know that a sharp rock and a pair of scissors are different things that are used different ways, but both are sharp?

If you'd stop being willfully obtuse for once in your posting career you might actually learn something.

 

In your definition, interface is game. It's your definition which confuses sharp rock and scissors.

 

No, it isn't. You're confusing "two things have a similar feature" with "things with a similar feature are no different from one another."

Anyway, every time I talk to you, I feel my braincells start to die off. Later, clown.

 

No way is 'data' some kind of generator of emotion. If you want to generate emotion, you need to tell a story that relates to someone's life experience. None of the memorable times I've had in games had anything to do with levelling up some game attribute (quite the contrary, it's probably negatively correlated. I see levelling up usually as an obstacle to reaching the parts of a game that I really want to be in).

Like any good thing, memorable times in games, for me at least, are few and far between. They usually come from a choice that has little or no specific value in the game, but has value for me in terms of who I see myself to be, who I consider myself to be a person. In fact, these moments usually have so little in common with the 'science' of game design that the game usually treats them with a sort of awkwardly polite ignorance after they occur.

Forget about trying to create emotions from data. Maybe some supercomputer AI can extract a few drops of emotion from a few megatons of data, but for a human being such a thing is, well, not a particularly efficient or satisfying endeavor. It's probably a lot more fun to be day trading or something than making games from that perspective.

 

https://drdavidhamilton.com/does-your-brain-distinguish-real-from-imaginary/

Give me more data..

"No changes of cortical motor outputs occurred in control subjects who underwent daily TMS mapping but did not practice on the piano at all (control group 1)."

So, this explains why text adventures without graphics, or books, can trigger emotions based on....words?

A writer doesn't need to write an story related to anyone as long as the images evoked by his words
can be so strong to send this images, or...data...to the reader.

Please read Stephen King book On Writing.

Games are not interfaces, like books are not some pages to flip around and that makes a book.

Even the SIZE of this typo can trigger emotions.

BUT,

Games are not books, or comics, or a piano. So, games are interfaces to interact with some data
that will give me more data and this will trigger some emotion based on...events and this
chain of events will make me analyze the data to progress trough this game of data
that finally will trigger some more emotions. Where is my popcorn and coffe?

 

I just wanted to thank all of you for this thread. It's been quite the ride

 

What are you talking about???

 

Movies, books and politicians do that. While game is a different.

.Maybe you don't play supercell's games, diablo, grim dawn, porch light, slay the spire....

It seems you feel very few.

How about clicker game? It's very simple.

 

I can't catch up with your point.

Do you eat popcorn when drinking coffe?

 

I am not clown.

Braincells start to die off only because of age, nothing to do with my thread.

 

Yes. For breakfast.

Any news about a pre alpha game to test all this ride?

One more thing.

Froom google 1 search:
Psychology is the scientific study of the mind and behavior. Psychology is a multifaceted discipline and includes many sub-fields of study such areas as human development, sports, health, clinical, social behavior and cognitive processes.

New book incoming: Psychology and Game Design by Unity Forum.

Let's put more data:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/gamesblog/2013/feb/14/frustration-in-game-design

Spoiler:
"...But if they're frustrated and angry, they have to continue. As he explains, "players who are trying to play well are typically more engaged in the game. We're trying to build engagement, so players can have that experience — which videogames are so great at providing — of being completely immersed and involved...."

Now that's interesting.

 

I need to make modifictions to my statement: data trigger emotions.

Data is the source of emotions in game, and data can indirectly trigger emotions by means of achivement or failure, or story, or dialogue, or music, or combinations.

If data is a person, he is more powerful than Mystique. Data should be agent Smith.

Let's check below data:
Emotion oriented games:
"Life is strange" is a story driven game. Gamers seem to want to get emotions from this type of game. In top rated reivews, most gamers only played 10 hours around. If so emotional, why only 10hours on it.
The same thing happens to "To the moon", only 5 hours playing time.

Data heavy games:
"Dota" thousand hours.
"Grim Dawn" hundred hours.
"Slay the spire" 50 hours
"Torch light" dozen hours

If data isn't the source of emotions, why gamers play much more time on data heavy games? Let the gamer kill 10 goblins, then an elite. After killing 10 elites, then one boss. The designer uses data to let the gamer has a feeling of achivement after killing the boss. What will happen to the gamer, when there is only one goblin, one elite and one boss?

Pace is a kind of data, and plays very important role in game. Pace is not visible to gamers, but the designer should calculate the pace when designing the game.

 

How to distinuish boss and goblins?

Size? No. Dialogue? No. Data Yes.

You need to spend time to meet the boss. You need to kill a lot of goblins, then you are qualified to see the boss. You need powerful weapons to defeat the boss. You need to spend more time to kill the boss.

Game isn't movie, you can't use cutsence to distinuish boss and goblins. You need large data to make the boss feel stronger and dangerous.

 

What a loaded statement this is.

Bruh that game only has about 10 hours of content. What is the player supposed to do? Play the game over and over again?

These are games that have much more content so naturally they would have more playtime. That just makes sense. This has nothing to do with emotions.

That'd be like saying "The Titanic movie is supposed to be more emotional but people only watch it for two hours while people watch Star Wars for much longer". The Titanic is a two-hour long movie. The entire Star Wars series would take ages to watch. Regardless of how much emotion you feel for either movie, how long it takes you to finish them is irrelevant. Whether I feel nothing for Titanic or I end up sobbing by the end, it'll still take me two hours to watch The Titanic.

 

Aight. I guess I'm going to have to join the spectator club for this thread too.

 

Let's go back to DATA issue:

https://keydifferences.com/difference-between-data-and-information.html

"......While data is an unsystematic fact or detail about something, information is a systematic and filtered form of data, which is useful. In this articl, you can find all the important differences between data and information........."

@hongwaixuexi Thanks for the ride.

"
Data heavy games:
"Dota" thousand hours.
"Grim Dawn" hundred hours.
"Slay the spire" 50 hours
"Torch light" dozen hours
"

You forgot Stardew Valley.

 

@YBtheS "The entire Star Wars series would take ages to watch. Regardless of how much emotion you feel for either movie, how long it takes you to finish them is irrelevant. "

I dont see so much Titanic fans out there. But i see Star Wars t shirts everywhere.

The point @hongwaixuexi made it's clear already.

Emotion driven games he doesn't like.

Game will be called: Data Emotional Trigger 1

 

But they don't have new content to cover more than 50 hours. It proves data can increase replayability greatly.

 

May Popcorn be with you.

Also,

 

Haha

 

I don't think emotion driven game is competitive with our current tech. Even boring clicker game has much more playing time. I think AR/VR is helpful for emotion driven game, but still no enough.

 

Emotional Data Trigger 1

 

Movies can easiy transfer emotions by actors performing (smiling or crying, feel so real). 3D models in cutscene always seem rigid, so the result is not as good as movies.

 

In movies, in order to trigger emotion, a lof of authored events happens. For instance one boy abandoned reading at Harvard, just because he want to save money for his sick girl friend. Then a lof authored events happend to strenthen the emotion, he has to work as janitor, as waiter and any other low paid job. He has to quarrel with his family which want him continue reading. He is in despression. His friends leave him alone. His mood is worse and worse. He begins to drink. Then....

While in game, authored events has very few use. You have to let the poor boy cut 50 trees, collect 100 rocks, and craft several weapons and porches, then go to the mountaion with many beasts. In the journey, you have to kill 50 wolvies, 5 tigers, and the final boss - big snake which has 500 defence armor - you can't hurt it with current weapon. In order to defeat big snake, you have to get one legendary weapon - fire ball staff which can create 1000 magic attack. Then you have to explore one cave for this weapon, and the cave has 5 traps, and each trap damage you one third health. After all these, you get the rare herb guarded by the snake, then you use it to save your sick girl friend. That's the way in game. The longer time you spend in crafting and fighting,the more loyal you will feel .

 

Different in what way?

Depends what kind of 'emotions' you're talking about. A jolt of dopamine is not the same thing as what you get when you read a great story. Any game with a good backstory can create emotion, and the more the player can define that story, the more they engage with it. But the meaning that comes from the story is not simply an attribute, or data point.

I 'feel very few' games? I guess you can say that. Most games have very disappointing stories.

Define what kind of emotion you're talking about, because the kind of 'emotion' you get from a clicker game is the same sort that you get from scratching an itch. It's not remotely similar to the type of emotion you get from a good story.

 

On my next prototype i will put all i've learned from this post (seriously a lot),
on practice.

 

Movie can represent strong emotions and sensitivity just by gestures.


while in game
Only cover of the game can represent some emotions.

Game represent the emotions the other way. not by cutscene or npc gestures.

 

Could you make a summary? I am learning too.

 

Yes, sure. I will. Let me think 30 minutes.

 

Games can represent strong emotions and sensitivity just by the types of choices the player can make. Those choices don't have to drive any particular attribute or data point in the game though - although ideally they would influence at a minimum the rest of the story.

I agree, not with cutscenes so much as with choices.

 

As usual, it is BS. It depends on the game. Obviously this is a very emotional scene for those who played the game (Final Fantasy): shock, sadness, unease, disbelief


And also this one:

 

What types are?

 

If this happend in begining, do you have the same feeling?
The answer is no.
Because you have spent a lot time on it, the more time spent on the game, the more stronger your feeling is.

 

Oh I thought because they have put a giant database behind the game. Thanks!

 

Put Popcorn as a reward, always, with coffe.

 

The most meaningful choices are those that give you a chance to define the kind of person you are. Choices that represent your character, for which there are no real right answers.

 

@hongwaixuexi This was the best thread ever made, unlocked too many directions!!!!!!! Thanks!!

 

This book discuss emotion triggers. Let's see what this book say.

What emotion trigger is?

1. To be meaningful, an event must provoke emotion.

2. An EMOTIONAL TRIGGER is some thing or observation that causes emotion.

3. Your unconscious mind constantly analyzes your situation. When certain conditions are met, the unconscious triggers an emotional response.

4. To provoke emotion, an event must change some HUMAN VALUE. A HUMAN VALUE is anything that is important to people that can shift through multiple states.
Some examples of human values are
[life/death], [victory/defeat],
[friend/stranger/enemy], [wealth/poverty], [low status/high status],
[together/alone], [love/ambivalence/hatred], [freedom/slavery], [danger/safety],
[knowledge/ignorance], [skilled/unskilled], [healthy/sick], and [follower/leader].
Events in games can shift all these values and more.

5. What’s emotionally relevant about an event is not the event itself, but the changes in human values implied by that event. The more important the human value and the more it changes, the greater the emotion.

6. Emotions don’t just appear in response to a change. They also appear in anticipation of change.

7. A reveal of information is emotionally equivalent to change.

8. We can’t directly perceive the logic behind our emotional triggers. Emotion is not a choice.

9. Even though we don’t know why we feel as we do, we effortlessly assign logical causes to our emotions without realizing it. These assumed causes are often wrong.

10. Emotional misattribution makes it hard to understand how games affect us. A game presents a hundred different stimuli and decisions, and provokes a multilayered emotional response. But which parts of the game triggered which emotion? There’s no easy way to know.

 

(Continue)
The Basic Emotional Triggers
Let’s take a look at some of the most common emotional triggers

1. Emotion Through Learning
The more important a lesson is to a human value, the more we’re driven to learn it.
The skills that we’re instinctively driven to master are the ones that helped our ancestors reproduce.
The more intricate and nonobvious a lesson is, the greater the pleasure of learning it.
Players feel INSIGHT when they receive a new piece of information that causes many old pieces of information to suddenly make sense.

2. Emotion Through Character Arcs

3. Emotion Through Challenge

4. Emotion Through Social Interaction

5. Emotion Through Acquisition

6. Emotion Through Music

7. Emotion Through Spectacle

8. Emotion Through Beauty

9. Emotion Through Environment

10. Emotion Through Newfangled Technology

11. Emotion Through Primal Threats

12. Emotion Through Sexual Signals

 

I'm still convinced Hong is trolling all of you, but...if you really think there is only one way to trigger emotions (data), you've never met a human. Humans are super emotional. Show them a picture of a puppy that looks like the one they had as a kid and they might start crying. You don't have to have 1,000 hours or 1,000 character classes or blah blah blah. Should be obvious if you've ever talked to someone in real life.

 

I get more and more conflicted about this every time I read this thread. This is too much dedication and effort for a troll to put in... yet this is too dumb to not be a troll...

We may never know...

 

I forgot the PopCorn.

"5. What’s emotionally relevant about an event is not the event itself, but the changes in human values implied by that event. The more important the human value and the more it changes, the greater the emotion."

@hongwaixuexi Perfect, thanks again.

 

I quote my last night writing based on this thread ideas (of course i've already had my previous ideas)
because this is not too much effort at all, its pure logic:

Player Situation:
If the guy that sells Used Cars (NPC controlled by AI) runs from you (the Player) because you did bad actions (data) , there will be no chance to buy a Car legally (data) , so that will make the Path (data) a little clear: the Player only can steal a car or join the Mafia. (information to the Player for example trough an NPC).

This was caused by a PAST EVENT the player did.

Why the guy that sells Used Cars run from the Player?

This EVENT, when the Player decided to break a car and rob this car
(yes, GTA for example), taken the Player to a change in his
IN GAME Human Values, now he is a thief inside this game.

Can he go back in time to fix the past and become something else?

Maybe. He needs to do some actions of course.

If a troll it's making you differenciate between data and information,
take out stuff from posters here (even with bad mood xd) like:
games are interfaces and books about Jung,
clinical studies and more inside GAME DESIGN,
then we need more trolls.

 

Please look at this movie:

It's good movie.

 

Could you provide some evidence?

The gamers still know they are in a game when they see the picture provided by the game.