How to explain to a client that a programmer is not an artist?

I'm in quite a bit of a pickle. The artist that I've worked with on a number of games managed to get us both a gig doing a Unity project for a lady. After she told us she wanted to go ahead and I stopped looking for work, things went south. She got rid of my artist in favor of a family member. The problem is, the family member draws on paper! I told them I could probably clean up scanned images if they got them too me in high enough quality but now they want me to add the coloring, shading, and even extra things like grass and flapping wings. I've tried repeatedly to explain to them that programmers and artists are two separate things, but this is a woman who wanted to call Apple support because she forgot her Gmail password. I'm not sure the intricacies of software development are making it through. She says she can watercolor the drawings, but now she wants to come to my state so we can do the art together. I don't even know how to respond to that without blowing my shot at the job. I need the money, but I am not an artist! Her coming here and watercoloring on paper while I watch is going to serve no purpose. At least not any purpose she couldn't serve by simply watercoloring it on her own and hoping the scanner doesn't botch things up. What is the most professional way to explain to someone like this that they are asking you to do something well outside your job description?

 

This is an excellent example of how things often go in reality. I guess your original agreement/contract defined exactly what you will provide BUT that was based on you working with the artist you had at that time.

I don't know how much time has passed since your artist was replaced by her own. Ideally as soon as that happened I would have talked with the original artist and settled on a Finder's Fee for the gig since without that person there would be no gig for me. Then the next thing is I would immediately make up a new agreement replacing the original that clearly states the original agreement no longer applies due to the artist being replaced and goes on to detail exactly what you need from the new artist, which format the art is to be delivered in and so on. And it also would detail exactly what you are responsible for delivering on your end. They can either choose to sign the new agreement or not. I know you don't want to lose the work but you have to cover your arse too.

 

We still haven't got to the point of signing any agreements. That was supposed to happen before the artist and I got to work, but I guess now we are still in the negotiating phase. He was let go almost immediately after we got the go ahead. I haven't started work yet. It's just really frustrating because I have no idea how to respond to her request to come here and do the artwork.

 

Why did you agree to work without your artist in the first place? You should have explained to her what is the artist's job in your project and why you can't work with her relative. Maybe you can talk her into bringing your artist back?

 

At this point we haven't really agreed to anything in any official capacity. After she got rid of the artist she said she still needed a programmer and that is where we are now. I guess I'm just going to have to risk losing the job and tell her that I can't work with what she is providing. I'm just trying to find the most diplomatic way to do it since they seem to be under the impression that there's some button on the computer or some special skill that a programmer has to turn these hand drawn images into something useable. I've worked with a lot of clients who said they would provide their own artwork. So I told them to send me some sample art to see if I could work with it. I had no idea that this one would come in scanned form (in a friggin PDF file!) and need me to do all of the coloring, shading, addition of elements, and animation.

 

I see what you are saying. Well maybe just explain you need a digital artist from concept to completion. A traditional artist will not work for the project unless they are able and willing to take their scans and complete them digitally coloring and so forth and then sending the digital image files to you?

 

I think my biggest mistake was saying that I could cut out the scanned images if the scans were high enough quality. I can do that. That is technical image editing and not creative image editing. But there is a far cry from tracing something with a graphics tablet or using a magic wand tool and doing what they are asking me to do. I should have anticipated that they might not get the difference. Now I'm afraid it's going to seem like I'm the one backpedaling. But I really don't have much of a choice. Her coming here serves no purpose except to further waste our time. I did try to get her to bring my artist back to at least do the cleanup and revisions, but she was having none of it. I'm still not sure why she got rid of him since they have another project that they want both of us to work on. I'm guessing I'll be flushing that one down the drain too if they mistake my not being an artist for being an incompetent coder. Which I feel bad about because that's money out of his pocket as well as mine. I've also tried explaining to them that paying me to do something that I don't know how to do is far less cost efficient than simply hiring someone who does know how to do it. I think this is just a case of nepotism ruining a project. And I fear I'm going to get the blame. I just have to find the most diplomatic way possible to explain the situation and try to mitigate the damage.

 

I don't envy your situation. I've had many prospective client meetings for dev work and some of the things people come up with are just unreasonable. These days I still occasionally get a call... so and so gave me your number. I hear you built [whatever it was] for them. I'd like to discuss a project with you. "Sorry, I don't do that anymore."

Anyway man good luck. Hope it all works out for you!

 

It sounds to me like you're trying to convince yourself that this is a job you should continue to pursue. Maybe it is, but since you haven't agreed to anything the table is still wide open. Here's what you need to do:

1. Tell her straight out, but politely that as the programmer you do not handle the creation or modification of any digital media assets outside of the code.

2. Draft a PSA (Professional Service Agreement) that clearly defines the scope of work for you and what the client is responsible for providing to you.

3. As part of your PSA / scope of work, make sure you set proper milestones, rates, payment terms, etc. Make sure you are paid at milestones and not at the end of the project.

Now, for #2 above, this needs to be very specific. This is where you define exactly what your roles and responsibilities are. You need to define not only the things you do, but the things you do not do. You also need to define what will need to be provided to you, how it needs to be provided, and specifically in what format. If you want all of the art provided to you complete in layered PSDs for instance, you need to state that explicitly. Example:

"All digital media assets will be provided to the programmer by the client in production ready form. All audio files will be provided in raw wav format. All textures will be provided as uncompressed bitmaps or tiffs...."

Of course massage that what types of assets you need. The tricky part is not to be so specific that you leave things out, but to be specific enough that you don't leave open doors for the client to take advantage of you.

Now, you're worried about losing the job and what the perception will be to which I'll tell you, if she wants to do business she needs to handle it like a business professional. She needs to know what the expectations and boundaries are up front. If she doesn't like the terms, that is what negotiation is for, but it gives you a basis to start negotiating from and keeps the scope from swinging too far outside of what you expect.

Lastly, if you don't do this and you continue... and things continue to fall apart / go south, she will be much more upset with you because those expectations were not set at the beginning and you run the risk of damaging your reputation or branding yourself as a cowboy developer who is just flinging from the hip.

 

Just explain to her reality, if she can't accept it it's better to walk away now because things will only get worse. This is a red flag, and I'd definitely use it to say this is someone you can't work with. Do you know why she got rid of the artist, I'll bet he wanted too much money, which means you'll probably be working for peanuts anyway.

 

Ugh, I know this situation too well. Speaking to non-technical people about requirements and expectations is often a painful process. If it was me, I'd probably fire off something like this:
---

Hi CLIENT,

While I am looking forward to starting work on PROJECT NAME, I feel there is an issue we need to clarify before we move any further - the situation regarding the artwork. Digital artwork and programming are not the same discipline. Whilst I am able to provide some assistance with preparing the artwork for use, I am a programmer by trade, and creating / re-creating artwork in a digital form is beyond the scope of what any normal programmer would be expected to do.

I am aware that you want FAMILY MEMBER to produce the artwork, which I'm happy to try and accommodate, but none of the solutions we've discussed so far are good enough to get the project to completion. To move forward, I simply need the artwork in a usable digital format. The way I see it, this means we need one of several things to happen:

• FAMILY MEMBER produces the artwork by hand, including colouring / shading, which we then scan and tidy up for digital use.
• FAMILY MEMBER produces the concept artwork, without colouring / shading, which a Digital Artist uses to reproduce and finish the artwork in a digital format (possibly ARTIST FRIEND).
• A Digital Artist produces the artwork without the line concepts, but with input just from yourself and FAMILY MEMBER.

Personally I feel that the 2nd or 3rd option would probably produce the best quality, as scanning hand drawn artwork often has unreliable results.

I'm sorry if this comes across a bit stern or demanding, but I feel like we got our wires crossed somewhere along the line and some clarification was needed. I hope we can resolve this situation and move along with the project.

Regards,

NAME

---

Assuming she wants to continue, you should definitely look at doing as @Dustin Horne suggested and get an agreement stating exactly what you're responsible for and what you require to do that job. Sucks if you lose the job, but I guarantee it'll suck more (in the long term and short term) if you agree to take on things you know you won't be able to do.

Good luck!

 

Walking away might be a good idea. But if that's not an option, can you subcontract an artist?

 

Something here leads me to believe that she thinks that the artist's job is a piece of cake and anyone could do it, so she doesn't want to pay for it.
I think the best way to deal with it right now is to clearly explain to her that there is a lot of work involved to bring the scanned image into the project. If she made the decision to replace your artist with her relative, then it would be logical to expect that the relative should be able to do the same level of work, that you would expect from your artist. Seeing how that is not the case, and that relative can't meet your requirements, you either ask her for additional payment and do the remaining work yourself (or subcontract), or ask her to hire another artist which will fix the artwork with your requirements in mind.

 

The pay is actually going to be pretty good, enough to get me caught up and relieve a bunch of stress. After all, she is willing to travel a few states away to work on the project. That ain't cheap. Which is why the thought of losing it is so stressful. But they do think that an artist's job is easy. When discussing the shading the family member actually said, "It's computer graphics, it's easy." Which is annoying. If it were so easy, why can't he do it?

I'm not sure why they got rid of the artist. I think it's just because the nephew wanted the job. The official reason she gave him was that he had a baby on the way and wouldn't have time to work on it. Which I think offended him a little bit. He's worked for D.C. and Marvel. His ability to meet a deadline is pretty established. Not to mention the fact that not many people quit work because they have a baby.

I guess all I can do is try one more time to explain the difference between an artist and a programmer. What they are doing is like hiring a carpenter and then handing him a bunch of logs. It's great that he doesn't have to cut down the trees, but logs aren't lumber. I just wish I knew why she thinks that coming to me to work on the art is supposed to accomplish. I have a feeling that whatever I say she is just going to respond with, "That's why I want to come to you." I feel I need to address that misconception, but I'm not sure what the heart of it is.

 

convince her to pay a higher price and subcontract the artist

 

Would it be enough to allow you to subcontract your friend? At least partially?

 

ROFL! Draws on paper! LOL! No offence but this is HILARIOUS!

LOL!

You got that right!

I Second that!

Yup!

That was my idea... You just typed it faster xD

 

Or give her nephew the requirements you usually give to your artist, like what Dustin mentioned (file formats, number of frames per animation, frame resolution, etc), and see if he can handle a test assignment in a timely manner. If he can't, tell her that you too don't have the time nor expertise to do that job, and that's why you want to have a professional artist work with you.

 

If she wasn't about to travel to his location, you could try claiming you do have the expertise, asking for more money as you're handling more roles, and simply subcontracting those roles. Or at least those parts of the roles you cannot handle yourself in some way.

 

Yeah, that's the thing. If I just ask for more money and subcontract out the work without telling her, she'll still want to come here and stay for who knows how long working on it. if I'm not the one actually doing it, that wouldn't be good.

That's what I'm going to have to end up telling her. I need someone to get this into a production ready form. But for the reason above, I have to tell her what is going on. I'm not sure she'll go for it. I've already asked her to bring my artist back just for the cleanup work. But she said that he probably wouldn't want to work on someone else's drawings (she may be right) and that the "styles are different". That last part I don't get. The professional artist can't match the style, but the programmer can?

Not and still be worth it. Especially considering the amount of revisions they want done.

 

I think it's essential for her to try doing it herself and then compare the results to what a professional artist can do in the same amount of time. Let her, and her nephew do a test assignment, to see if they are even able to complete it. And see how much time it will take.
Also, she probably wants to come over so you could teach her how to do her job. But... teaching also costs money...

P.S. What I'm trying to convey is that instead of telling her that making art is hard, she needs to come to that conclusion herself. And for that she needs to make a game-ready asset herself.

 

Hi HemiMG,

I am only just beginning development so my advice should be taken lightly.

First off I totally agree with all the others have said on this post. So if I was in your shoes I'd follow their advice.

If the client won't agree to hiring a professional artist then get her to get her artist relative involved before proceeding. If they refuse due to expense/time then why is their time/work worth more than your friends?

Ask the client to get the artist relative or herself to scan/photograph the images themselves and only send them on to you when they are completely happy with the result as that is what will be in the product. If they cant' get them to a state they are happy with then neither will you.

BUT if you are totally locked in then I would consider the following:

What type of game/project are you doing? If the on screen graphics/artwork involve lots of close ups and/or rescaling etc then I'd imagine you have to get a proper artists help. If they don't then you may get away with it.

Similar to LOD as the object gets further away the less obvious any flaws become. So if any scans/photographs do look off you may get away with it with just a bit of touching up of the images. You could also see if there is anyone good with photoshop/gimp who could help cleanup any images. It may work out cheaper than hiring an artist.

When doing the scans/photography use different lighting and settings to get the best images you can.

Just a couple of thoughts. Hope it helps

 

First of all, trust you gut instinct. That little voice that goes "this is not going to work well" is valuable.

If you really want to earn that good money, you need to hand hold the client with "Listen, this is the way it is. Do you want to do the artwork so you can take credit for it? Or do you want it done right? Artists can recreate your designs and concepts and expand upon them. That's like a thing.

Also, regarding the pay. The job will require this much work by another artist. The projected investment is this. Let me know when you would like to review a formal contract."

Something like that. Short, sweet, professional.

Don't waste a lot of time explaining the history of computing to this woman. You're the expert, she's hiring you, the expert. If she continues her behavior, fire the client. Trust your gut. Because if the client isn't showing reliable and/or respectable behavior you can probably count on that happening again once you've invested time and money into a project for them to nitpick and call you names.

 

OK first of all, please don't share this sort of thing on a public game development forum. That's just dumb. Secondly, the client is never in error. You choose to work with a client with no technical ability, and this is the result. Honestly, what other result do you expect? How to get out of it is simple: walk away. If you've been paid then do your job and then walk away. Unless you like punishment.

 

Why is it dumb? I didn't give any names, and I'm not going by my real name. While I understand the sentiment that walking away is probably a good idea, one cannot know the technical ability of a client before they send you their work.

 

Subcontract. Become a complete solutions provider and pick up a professional to be an artist.

Or walk away from the job. If you have this much trouble just getting started, you are going to have trouble working with her throughout the entire project. In either case, it seems like you are definitely the expert here.

 

That video is one of my favorites. Along with this one:

 

@HemiMG just drop it. Such people like that lady can't be reasoned with and by the end of the project you'll hate yourself for sticking so long. No money would help alleviate that feeling. Trust me on this, okay? Also, obviously, give her bill for wasting your time and being unreasonable Boring, Insane, Teasing Crazy Human.

 

I don't really think it's fair to call her those things, because many people just don't understand how the industry works. It isn't really their fault, I just apparently haven't been very great at explaining things.

 

But it's really their job to educate themselves on how the industry works.

When they don't educate themselves about the industry, they either fall prey to vulture freelancers who take their money, do a horrible job if any at all, and then walk away blaming the client, or they find a freelancer who desperately needs the money, only to later blame him or her when the project stalls or fails to meet their expectations.

 

Technically a valid strategy. But I wouldn't recommend it.

 

If the client insists on going down the hand drawn route and you can't get out then aren't you essentially in a storyboard animation scenario as old movies/cartoons. i.e with individual cells per frame? That sounds like a nightmare.

Whatever happens be honest and respectful with your client. Educate her as best as you can. Ignorance on her part is not a crime especially if she has been listening to non realistic advice from third parties. You have left employment for this to be your new employment. Don't ruin your possible business before it's even started.

 

That almost happened. Some agency wanted to charge her some ridiculous amount of money to make a match 3 game, which has nothing to do with the projects that she wants done and would probably end up being a reskin of a game that already exists a 1000 times over on the app store. So when I explained to her that I needed someone skilled in digital graphics, I made sure to point out that many developers may be willing to fake their way through it to get the money but that the end product would suffer. There still seems to be some disconnect getting her to realize that the part she is asking for my help on is the part that I need help on and that we need a proper artist to provide that help. But hopefully it will get sorted out.

She's really excited about the project and I would like to help her out, but it is going to be a long haul to teach her how the process works.

It's more of an interactive storybook kind of thing, so there isn't supposed to be a lot of individual frames. I was kinda thrown for a loop with the waving grass and flapping wings bit because I thought the scope of the graphics was pretty well decided on back when the artist was still on board.

In the end, she isn't very insistent on anything (except, apparently, not using a professional artist) and is certainly willing to take suggestions. In that regard, she's a lot better than some clients I've worked for. I think she respects my professional ability, but just isn't quite clear where the line is regarding what I can and can't do.

 

Please be careful when she leaves, she leaves you with no material and monetary loss.

 

You could just learn to draw. Apparently there are yt tutorials on becoming an artist in a few easy steps.

 

Some jobs are worth it. Some aren't. I'd tell her either we use the original artist or not do the job. Believe me, taking on a job like this has a way of snowballing into a lot more pressure and stress than you'd get by simply walking away.

 

And as much as you want this job I keep seeing a lot of red flags... if you don't get a contract and define your scope of work you're going to be in trouble (waving grass and flapping wings *ahem*).

 

It sounds very scary and very odd. She wants to fly to you and work with you? There are zillions of people she could get to do this job...why choose someone far away and then fly to them? Why would she not insist on a professional artist?

Something doesn't seem right here.....

You are such a nice person, Hemi. I hope this doesn't end up bad for you.

 

The artist lives in New York where she lives, so she thought I lived there too. I still have never had a client want to leave the state to work with me before. If I thought it would help, I would be willing to meet in person. But I can't really do anything. It would be a completely wasted trip.

I think the main hangup is just that they don't realize the difficulty in getting this hand drawn art into a usable format when neither party involved is digital artist. For the music she's hiring a composer and singer and booking recording studios. She's most certainly not against spending money. And in every other regard she seems to be picky about getting the best results possible using the best talent available.

I think I'm too nice, which isn't always ideal in the business world. It's why I prefer to avoid freelancing when at all possible. Every once and a while bill collectors want to get paid though.

 

If you need the money badly enough that you need to take on this client, then what you need to do is immediately nut up and take control of this situation.

You need to not be afraid of the client. You need to not be scared of losing her. You need to be able to dictate the terms.

Right now, you're in 'doomed to fail' status. You know that. If you need the money bad enough to entertain this in the first place, you need to move this into 'might be possible' status.

This is going to require you to educate her, firmly and directly.
Set appropriate expectations.
Explain input and output.
Clearly and directly lay out boundaries.

If you're going to turn this client into something that has a remote chance of positive conclusion, you need to be assertive, direct, and you need to be willing to lose her if she doesn't listen. Trying to tip toe around insane expectations is a recipe for disaster.

 

As an alternative to manning up, you could learn to do art.

 

Polite can be as simple as:
"I'm sorry, but that won't be possible."
"I'm sorry, but that will not work."
"I'm sorry, but that's not possible."

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

Never stop looking for work until you have a signed contract in hand. Even then, don't stop looking for work unless you're sure this is going to be a full time project. (Or will fill up whatever time you are trying to fill.)

Maybe I'm reading too much into this since we're getting the information secondhand, but the whole idea of her flying to your state so you can watch her watercolor strikes me as really, really weird. Like saying, "That won't be possible," while making sure I know where the nearest exit from the room is type of weird.


Other have already covered above that you need to be careful in your contract and you need to decide if the level of stress and weird that are going to come out of this project are worth the money that is coming in.

Plus if she's willing to drop the artist for her nephew at the drop of a hat, who says she won't drop you because some other relative did a Unity tutorial and is now a programming expert??

 

In my experience, if a project starts off badly, it will end the same way. And all the time afterward that you'll have to spend supporting/educating the client. You need to decide if the money is really worth the hassle and stress?

If it were me, I'd politely fire the client - and explain the reasons why.
Stop being so nice - it'll bite you more often than not. You can be friendly and professional, but make sure the client knows the expectations and boundaries - and do not let them change them.

It sounds like a difficult situation though - you need the money and don't want to ruin any potential future projects. I just don't see any way around it. Without a good artist, you won't be happy with what you create, and the whole thing will damage your relationship with the client - best to get out now, or perhaps say "This isn't working - we need to go back to the beginning and reevaluate"

Edit: Firing a client isn't always a bad thing. I've done it a number of times, and more often than not they have come back to try to renegotiate. Worst case scenario, it frees up your time for other clients.

 

I'm not sure what she expects to accomplish with that either. I ended up telling her that I can't move forward until I have the finished artwork in a digital format. As I predicted, she said that the reason she wanted to come here is so I could teach her what she needs to do. Despite all the advice, I'm having a really hard time conveying that I am not in a position to teach her what needs to be done.

Walking away may be the only advice left to take. But I feel bad because she is really excited about the project. I really want to help her make her app because I have a feeling there are a lot of people out there who will take advantage of her lack of knowledge. But there is clearly a communication barrier that I just can't seem to break through.

 

You need to tell her exactly that. Tell her that you don't know enough about it to do or teach it, that it's outside of your area of expertise. I have a feeling you're doing a lot of hand holding and trying to be nice and not hurt her feelings. If that's the case, while noble, not being just straightforward is sometimes and injustice in and of itself.

 

That's pretty much what I told her in my response. I guess I'll wait and see what her reply is. I don't think I'm getting the digital artist though because for some reason she thinks that most people who work in digital aren't "real artists." I don't think I'm going to try too much more back and forth before I tell her I can't do it though. I think at this point my time would be better spent getting my next asset on the store and then looking for another gig.

 

On the plus side, I got my scratch ticket fix for the day on your webplayer demo

 

Haha. When I made that, I was surprised that there were whole games that were nothing but scratchers. But when I downloaded them for inspiration, I found they were shockingly hard to put down.

 

Sounds like your client is well intended. You can probably explain it politely and you might get a positive response.

In the other hand, water coloured art could result in interesing aesthetics.

 

It could look really cool. The line art isn't bad. But I'm concerned about the quality of the scans. Scanners tend to put black splotches in areas they shouldn't be. That's annoying enough to clean up in a black and white image, but even more so on a color image.