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How to Develop

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jacob_p01, Mar 27, 2019.

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  1. jacob_p01

    jacob_p01

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    Hi there,
    I've been working in Unity for about six months now, and I've followed tons of tutorials and I have the capabilities to sit down and make a basic game with Unity's basic tools. What I want to know is how do I begin to really develop my abilities within and outside of Unity?

    Where can I learn more efficient ways of scripting? And the complexities that it involves?
    Where can I learn to make a game world rather than placing boxes and terrain? Where can I learn more advanced techniques that are going to expand what I am capable of beyond that scope of what I realize I can do?
     
  2. bobisgod234

    bobisgod234

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    Just start making your own game. Learn to resolve problems as you run into them.
     
  3. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    Start with a small game, and build it. Make sure it includes everything you expect a game to have. When you're done, pick another game that's slightly more complex and do it again.

    If something particularly takes your interest as something to learn about, select designs which incorporate that thing.

    There's no one path to learning all of game development. Most developers pick an area to specialise in and just start building up experience in that area. Broadly, learning problem solving techniques and building up knowledge and experience to kickstart your problem solving is what makes you "good". Nobody can know it all, but you don't have to.
     
  4. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    Also consider answering questions in the scripting section.

    You will pose poor answers. But other people will jump on and offer you corrections and improvements. Its a great way to learn small details of code.
     
    AntoineDesbiens, Amon, Ryiah and 2 others like this.
  5. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    We dont need more poor quality answers
     
  6. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

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    No, just more people who know better to jump in and offer thorough corrections.If you correct a bad answer, you've helped a lot more than just one person.

    I'm with Kiwasi's advice -- I purposefully try to answer questions especially if I am not 100% about the answer because if you give a poor answer nothing riles people up more and then you'll get healthy peer review. It is a great way to test out your ideas against the community. Just don't be a baby about criticisms.

    What is not useful is one self-avowed expert saying "this is the way!" and nobody challenging it.


    Anyway, what I wanted to add for the OP is : start breaking things and recognize the value of failures and mistakes. This is the most thorough way to learn. As others said, just start working, even if you feel totally lost. Every mistake you make and learn from is a big step forward, even if you feel like you're stuck in a pit.
     
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  7. Joe-Censored

    Joe-Censored

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    On the same idea as above, the best way to learn is by solving problems. Tutorials can help, but you won't really learn from them. You need to have a problem you are trying to solve on your own. You need to try, you need to fail, and you need to try again. Eventually you will resolve the problem and understand everything around it far better than anyone could ever explain it to you. Partly this is because after you solve the problem yourself you will not just understand "how" but "why" as well.
     
  8. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

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    Well I always recommend devouring ALL of the learning content you can find. But the thing is, it's only partially useful if you haven't done the work first. Like, if somebody is explaining how some tools work or how to work around some problem, it's only like 50% useful if you haven't encountered the need for the tools first or encountered the specific problem they are proposing a solution for first.

    So I find the most thorough approach is : jump in and do the work until you hit a wall. Search solutions to your problem. Most likely, as a beginner, it's very common and thus no sense not using common solutions freely available. Continue. Doing the work and practciing self-sufficiency is not antithetical to using generational knowledge and "climbing on the shoulders of giants."

    Eventually you have fewer and fewer problems, but when you do there won't be an easily searchable solution. But by then, you have a pretty good mental library and also you understand how things work behind the curtains, so troubleshooting isn't a big thing.
     
  9. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    I'm convinced the only way to learn to write good quality answers is to write a lot of bad quality answers first.
     
  10. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

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    hehehe


    I better get to work!


    ahem, the key to proper development is to first spin around in a circle very fast for 3 minutes. This gets your brain phalanges in the right order for serious thinkerings.
     
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  11. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    I actually find this only works if you spin clockwise. Spinning counter clockwise will actually degrade your performance.

    See, it works. You posted a bad answer. I helped improve on it. :p
     
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  12. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    Its better to reserve stackexchange etc to the seniors in my opinion. There are better ways of learning to write code than to pollute question and answer communities with junk
     
  13. Antypodish

    Antypodish

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    Some like your inadequate advices to OPs from the past? :p

    Sorry, by I don't agree. It is easy to fall that way in only dinosaurs views. And we know technology evolves, so fresh and more adequate to skill answers are required.

    Seniors are not guaranteed for knowledge of 'correct' solutions.

    However, I am not pointing at correctness, or fault of stack overflow system itself. Is not ideal, but is functional.

    We all got some analytical and judgment skills. That should allow us to read beyond, what is considered as 'right way', to learn about different angles.
     
  14. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    I only give the best advice, its just the hobbyists here on this forums that dont undestand them as best, not my fault
     
  15. ensiferum888

    ensiferum888

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    Translation: I post only to stroke my ego and prove I'm the best, I don't rally care whether it helps people or not.
     
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  16. Billy4184

    Billy4184

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    Make games, of course!

    Make bigger games, check the profiler, and optimize away :) Stackoverflow is a good place to find answers to questions you'll end up asking.

    By making bigger and better games :) are you telling me you can't think of something that seems rather complicated that would be fun to try to make?

    There's no problem worth solving that hasn't presented itself to you yet. So face the problems that are in front of you and work on them.
     
  17. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    Dude, enough. Turn on your ignore list. You don't need to post this crap every time AndersMalmgren makes a post.
     
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  18. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    I fully stand by this post as this is Anders' entire shtick. As soon as anything comes up, he calls everyone a hobbyist.
     
  19. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    We know. You have said this on literally every single thread he posts on. The interaction between you two is becoming quite toxic.

    For your own mental health, and the peace of everyone else, put him on your ignore list. Its a relatively easy process. Just click his profile pic, then click ignore.
     
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  20. Lurking-Ninja

    Lurking-Ninja

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    In my book, and I push this as a manager too: seniority isn't based on knowledge (above the minimal amount of course), anyone can sit down and grind through all the nowadays popular frameworks, patterns and methods. Seniority shows how much you are willing to do to obtain more knowledge and how quickly you know where to go and what to read to obtain the correct minimal information to solve the problem. Apparently these companies I'm working for and with agree with it. And I'm not an advisor who comes and goes and has no stake in the game.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2019
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  21. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    Anyone can call themself senior today, the term has lost its weight. But I ment true seniors.
     
  22. frosted

    frosted

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    Dude, senior never meant anything. I was a senior architect before I could drink legally (and a well paid professional one). I worked dual offices in london/new york. I didn't know jack.

    Nobody has ever known anything in software engineering. Everyone is full of crap.
     
  23. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

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    haha. but some can't hold all of it in!
     
  24. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    Today senior just means that you have worked in a specific field a long time. Any crap developer calls them senior.
    Though at a same time, a skilled programer right out of school do miss something that you learn from years of actually working in large scale projects. But you need to be good in the first place to harvest that.
     
  25. frosted

    frosted

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    For real, I think the "good/bad" programmer thing is a myth. I think that you can take anyone who likes code and teach them to be good. The problem is that "good" isn't remotely as objective as we'd like to pretend.

    Most bad code I've seen is someone trying too hard to be "good".
     
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  26. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    Good code is when you have 20 developers using your architecture and a majority thinks the design help their every day life
     
  27. frosted

    frosted

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    Good code varies wildly depending on domain my good man.

    Ease of use and learning curve help much more in some places than others. In some application speed trumps all. In others raw dependency and fault tolerance. Etc, etc, etc.
     
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  28. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

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    what if only two programmers are using the code? Wouldn't maintaining to the same degree that the large team needs just be a waste of time?

    Two people talking, but only one is listening!
     
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  29. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    A team starts at 1 person. No waste with maintainability. Since most projects evolve and change over time.
     
  30. frosted

    frosted

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    yeah in practice, this happens too.

    Like some guy needs to write some trivial set of functions to do something minor, but he imagines the work as a core API in a large organization and writes code according to those needs.

    IMO, that's bad code.
     
  31. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

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    in any case, who gives a S*** about "good" code? We are interested in making good games, right? The code does not exist in isolation.

    I can follow all the general advice for art and make a strong piece of art, but if it's not specifically suited to my game, it could be trash. Or I could be wasting tons of time focused on trivial crap. Like, why take hours to ensure the skull of my character is anatomically perfect if they're gonna have big hair and a helmet 100% of the time? It's foolishness.

    Case in point -- Anthem. Fantastic, glorious art. Amazing animation. Beautiful design. I imagine immaculate code.... Garbage game. Game failed because leaders failed to prioritize what was important. Happens all the time. Probably the individual parts of the game are top notch, but as a whole, it's junk food.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2019
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  32. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    If you write modular, agile code, its easy to extend, easy to protype. etc, etc.. Which helps, because good games do have complex systems

    edit: FOcusing on the right things is somethign you learn with time. And become a senior
     
  33. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

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    yeah, i try to do the same with 3d. Even on a portfolio project, if its gonna take more than a few weeks to cmoplete you will inevitably need to revisit certain parts, redo them, etc. So you have to design with the future in mind. This gives you flexibility. But, that's just the job. Not special genius. Any professional will have this basic grasp, and if they don't their manager is just gonna tell them how to do. So what?
     
  34. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    A team that needs a manager to tell them what todo for basic things that they should know are not very proficient

    edit: As a architect I do some of that, but its at a broader picture to help the team in their daily work
     
  35. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

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    okay. so what are you? God who sits and looks down in judgement?

    If you are the senior who knows best, you've got to empower the turds who lack proficiency. Not wave your big ole dick in their face and belittle. Just put yourself in their shoes and think what kind of guidance would help them the most and be received the best. If you make a habit of this you'll build a strong team out of a weak one, and then you'll really be getting places fast. And people will love you, not always be fighting against you.
     
  36. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    I just said its a bad idea answering questions as a way of learning to code. Though its a very good way to become better and to become a mentor. But its not something you start out with. Its not going to benefit anyone

    edit: And please stop editing your posts without indicating so
     
  37. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

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    disclaimer -- i almost always edit my post. sorry.

    well, you're not gonna stop people from jumping in to help, but if you are taking the initiative to help newbies out and you spot a blind person leading another blind person, that is just an opportunity to get two birds with one stone, right? you can feel twice as good by correcting a poor answer rather than having the podium all to yourself.

    It's very simple. If you want things done your way, you got to be in charge. If you want to be in charge, you have to convince others to put you in charge. You won't accomplish that by belittling or whacking people on the head with something they don't respond to.
     
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  38. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    It's been very well established in other threads that he can't. :p
     
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  39. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

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    He can. Unless he's an android. Just have to get him to understand his own way.

    People who work on computers develop a certain degree of impatience, I think. You get conditioned to creating solutions by your own effort and results are instantaneous. But humans are slow, and each one needs it's own solution. Can't force it. You have to guide, and then leave it be. Results come later. So people lose patience. Write their neighbors off. Tragedy!
     
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  40. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    Closed. Obviously. Also, gonna start handing out warnings for off topic derailments and spamming. It's getting old.
     
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