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How to define FPS' RPG attributes, for instance how strength affect pistol damage

Discussion in 'Game Design' started by hongwaixuexi, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. hongwaixuexi

    hongwaixuexi

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    In RPG, the relatioship between strength and damage is clear.
    the bigger the strength, and the more damage.

    But for pistol, if your strength is bigger, it still have nothing to do with pistol. So pistol damage won't vary with strength.

    So strength is less important in FPS' RPG. How to make strength as important as in traditional RPG?

    Do FPS RPG need different attributes?
     
  2. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Just rename the stat to "weapon proficiency" if you're that bothered by it. This isn't so much a design problem as it is a naming one, honestly.
     
  3. hongwaixuexi

    hongwaixuexi

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    I think it's a good solution.
     
  4. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    Attributes are a solution. What's the problem you're trying to solve?
     
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  5. bart_the_13th

    bart_the_13th

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    stronger hand means you can overcome recoil better, this also means you'll have faster recoil recovery, which in turn means you can put more bullet into target, which mean more damage per seconds only to be capped by mag capacity...

    only apply to handgun/pistol though...
     
  6. hongwaixuexi

    hongwaixuexi

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    In tradiontal RPG, you can see the results when attribures are changed, so the player is eager to get rare weapons for better attributes. While in FPS, this is not obvious.
     
  7. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    So it's about players having a sense of advancement?
     
  8. hongwaixuexi

    hongwaixuexi

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    Yes. Let the player purse leveling up with better attributes. But FPS can't directly copy traditional RPG attributes.
     
  9. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Any genre can copy any other. They are ideas, not rules.
     
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  10. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    From the first post here, I very much get the impression that you're implementing attributes because you have this assumption that you need them. That's what I'm trying to drive at by pointing out that you've jumped straight to a solution without thinking about the problem.

    I'm suggesting that you take a step back and decide whether or not having attributes is a fit for your game. If you decide it is, then decide for yourself what stats your game should have. Researching what's common in other games is a good idea, but don't feel that you need something just because it's common.

    This is approaching it from a design-centric viewpoint, of course. If you want to just make a thing then go for it, and in that case you need get no more complicated than @Murgilod's answer. If you need a thing to communicate "increased damage" and strength doesn't make sense as a name... rename it, and move on. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
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  11. Volcanicus

    Volcanicus

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    Look up Warframe's gun attributes.
     
  12. ensiferum888

    ensiferum888

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    I don't know if you ever played Kingdom Come Deliverance.

    But I thought that game actually has the best stats to gameplay relationship in any game. For example when you start the game you're the son of a blacksmith who never swung a sword at anyone. Your Sword skill is therefore very low and when you first start, you're really slow with the sword, you can't really feint or pull combos. And as you gain experience (by using a sword) and as your sword skill goes up it actually starts getting way more responsive in its movement, slightly faster attacks and recovery. By the end you actually feel like an accomplished fighter.

    They could have gone the skyrim route and just make your sword hit harder the higher your sword skill is.

    In a shooter you could translate the Weapon Profiency skill to actual accuracy, reload time, recoil handling, etc.
     
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  13. SparrowsNest

    SparrowsNest

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    Imagine your throwing a jab while pulling the trigger, adding a touch more muzzle velocity to the bullet.

    Credit for that idea goes to bill burr, lol.
     
  14. Not_Sure

    Not_Sure

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    Rpg players love chunky increments of improvement.

    It's far better to have a "recoil is reduced 50%" perk, than a each point here reduces recoil 5%.
     
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  15. SparrowsNest

    SparrowsNest

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    Good point, I think a nice way around it is giving the player multiple "upgrade points" each level and he can choose to either each time he level up he give a big boost to one skill and build up whats most important to him one by one or distribute it how ever else he sees fit.

    if one suggests two level up systems, the first lets you pick one skill and give it a hefty boost, say 50% recoil reduction or 50% reload speed, the second gives you ten points, each worth five percent and you decide where to put each point, (you can put them all in one of the skills and this way the first system is included inside this one).
    I'd go with the second probably, you can also make certain powers cost more points, although when I think of it I think I remember some games where you "invested" a level when you level up with out getting anything until you spend enough level on said skill to unlock it, but I can't put my finger on it.
     
  16. TenKHoursDev

    TenKHoursDev

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    I mean if you want to think about it like so: weapon proficiency/strength/whatever is definitely a thing. There are some dum dums who don't understand not to keep their finder on the trigger, barrel control, etc. but if its a shooting game I doubt thats going to be meta centric (unless its a game involving NPCs etc.).

    If it is a turn-base or RPG game... then you have more freedom (yay!). You can compute damage and accuracy and such with this basic attribute as a deciding factor.

    The thing about guns in games with attributes like this is guns are tools which do most of the work for the shooter. Granted you still gotta be able to aim, but the weapon and various innovations make this easier.

    One could imagine a workaround for said shooter or whatever. Blade-guns like carribean pirates and european wind sailors once used. A mix of gun and skillful combat. It would in general not be easy to reload something as heavy and awkward so you've got a balance standpoint there. Hell it could be a magic blade that shoots magic bolts of damage or something.

    On that note: consider your setting hongwei. Mideval combat was clumsy, innovation wasn't a common thing outside of academic circles and the rulers inner sanctums. There was no platform to incentivize or enable it.... so you had un-motivated conscripts fighting for their lives and little else, most of the time deciding to rabbit rather than fight. Due to a lack of innovation, people built giant blades to fight with. This made combat an exhausting, gruesome, and brutal endeavor which required great endurance and skill... because the tool of choice didn't do much other than cut and stab. Your opponent swings at you? You have to deflect it with your shield or your sword with 50 lbs of armor on your body... This is why we have the fencing sport.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  17. hongwaixuexi

    hongwaixuexi

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    Thanks. I think so.
    So I will put more focus on building or crafting, such attributes have a direct effects. In battle, I will eyesight skill for instance, the gamer only sees enemies within certain range. I hide the enemies outside the range. The gamer can increase the range by improving his eyesight skill.