How Much Should I Pay For This Project?

Hi! I am making the art for a 2D RPG. It will be Zelda Styled. I don't want to pay someone an hourly rate to program, I just want an upfront payment. How much is reasonable for this type game. It is not huge.

 

"it is not huge" and "Zelda styled" are kinda at odds with one another.

 

You would need far more detail than you posted before anyone could even start to make some kind of estimate.

--Eric

 

Okay. Basically you have one main quest line which takes roughly 3-4 hours to complete and a few hours of side quests. The world is small, and roughly 6-9 dungeons. There are not too many items in the game and the items do not have any advanced mechanics. The combat is simple 8-bit Zelda style.

 

Lol, it is has Zelda style combat, and puzzle solving, but smaller world, quests, and not as many items and enemies.

 

That's still a substantial amount of project to code for. This is by no means a small project.

 

How much are you thinking?

 

What about the graphics, is a green pixel enough for the main character? how about the sounds or the music? how many animations? do you need a map, monster and item editor. What type enemies and items are there? how many tile sets for worlds etc. etc. No one can give any kind of estimate when you are just talking hours of gameplay and saying things like "small world and not too many items".

If you want a Zelda replica then make a prototype with 2D rpg maker or a detailed design document with everything explained.

 

It took the guys who made ittel dew 2, 2 years to make there game and they had 6 guys.So I think your underestimating how long its going to make.

 

If I you what I have so far of the GDD do you think you could tell me how much I'd be looking at for someone to program it?

 

Unfortunately that doesn't really help. You'd need to provide actual detail as to what exactly you want to have happen. However this is probably better posted as a topic in the commercial forum.

--Eric

 

At least a year to complete, and with more than one person. Multiply that by hourly rate.

Your best bet is to stick with hourly rate and weekly/milestone payments. This way your programmer will be able to take your feedback and modify stuff. You don't need to develop the game continuously, you can stop, pause for a week, and then resume development.

Estimating the time with information you provided is going to be very hard and might not even be possible. Basically with "pay for the whole thing" approach you may either end up overpaying by large margin, or ending up with half-finished product.

Core engine of the game may be quite simple, though under two months, but then someone else will have to make all the maps and all the sprites and all the music.

And yeah, prototyping in rpg maker may be a good idea.

 

Have you looked into assets on the store which you could reskin with your own custom art?

https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/43566

 

i think you are severly underestimating the time it takes to complete such an "easy" project
3-4 hours content only for the main questline is a lot, especially since this should be a main questline, so i guess you want every quest to be kind of unique and have some impact on the story ?

 

This. You are looking at anywhere between six months to two years to complete, depending on your exact scope. Do the math for labour rates from there.

You can get prototypes results much fast, but they won't meet your spec.

 

Or Game Maker. There are Zelda tutorial series out there. The OP might find it easy enough they can make their own code.

 

You could get a pile of crap up and running in a week or two.

Something good, that people will like playing - as mentioned above, 6mo absolute minimum, years is more likely.

If you don't know how to program, do art or make games, triple all those figures and add 95% of giving up after you start to really understand whats involved. Or just hire someone to do the game design, and manage the production.

 

Or just buy a copy of Zelda. That's 30 or 40 bucks. Much cheaper.

 

Whats going to take the majority of the time is designing the bosses, puzzles, and enemies, making the gameplay flow is fun (not too easy/hard) make sure all your systems and combat mechanics work. Arrowx made a zelda game in 3 days but it didnt have any combat or anything.

 

If you have $150k+ ready to spend, send me a PM with your idea and we can go from there.

 

I think I could probably hire a small/tiny team for this amount for two years. As long as there's no office fees, they have their own hardware, etc.

Either way, I think, the best idea for the OP would be to give it a whirl in commercial section, and NOT as a "fixed price project". (I most likely will be looking for projects in february too, so there's that).

Basically, a prototype for this game wouldn't take too long, and could allow to test the idea out fairly quickly. Past that phase it'll be fairly easy to see if it is worth polishing further or not.

 

Business must be rough if you are dropping your prices that much.

 

High-level estimates for coding a game very similar to 8-bit zelda (coding only, no content, art, SFX, etc):

A POC Engine which implements core 8-bit zelda movement, combat, items: 3 days

Core engine ready for shipping (low polish but functional and mostly bug free): +20 days

UI, supporting systems: +20 days

Polish: +20 to infinite days ... how polished do you want it?!?

Feature requests, game mechanic changes, etc: +0 to infinite days (how many changes will you request?!?)

Take with a grain of salt as it depends heavily on what features you actually want.

Actual cost per day can vary widely with location, skill level, experience (and whatever else). Anywhere from $100 to $1000 is within normal price ranges.

 

Dang @Ony - 150k / 6 months. That is an exec rate I strive to be worth one day.

 

That's only a little over $800 per day. It's actually within the range @JohnnyA mentioned.

 

It doesn't seem excessively high. Not for a team with an established track record of making successful games. In fact from memory its lower then the revenue from her previous games. And remember its unlikely to be all going to a single person.

I've managed projects with a much higher budget over similar periods. Just because I can spend half a million in six months doesn't mean I get to take home half a million in six months.

 

Start the project. Renegotiations after it has already reached a vital point is going to happen next.
Or it really is not that big and 150k is enough. Who knows. A proposal less than half a page can be anything really.

 

If you're wondering why it's so hard to get a straight answer it's because it varies so wildly that it's impossible to give a concrete answer.

Artists and programmers going to cost you ~$20 to $40 an hour for their efforts. BUT, keep in mind that hourly pay is a very inaccurate metric since people vary wildly in how long they'll take AND it's impossible to know if they're being honest about the hours.

The only REAL solution is to present EVERYTHING you want to a potential hire and agree on a price and a time line.

And always do a percent up front and a percent when complete, with payments as milestones are reached.

And always make sure that they understand that since you are paying for their services that what is produced is in fact your intellectual property and can not be re-sold and they can not make additional content without your express permission.

And always make sure to have a formal agreement with everything explicitly stated. You don't need a lawyer, just something that if things go sour you can keep what is yours.

And I would highly recommend making sure that they are passionate about the project and not just cashing a check. It would also be wise to agree to give a percent of sales as a bonus so they are invested in the game's success.

Lastly, do not hire people with the sole intention of telling them exactly how to do everything. Artists and programmers know what they are doing and you need to give them some artistic freedoms if you want the best possible results.

Oh, and I highly recommend @Djagg for a 2d artist.

He's really good, fast, hard working, honest, and all around a really nice guy.

You can see his work here.

 

My first step, at least with a potential hire you've never worked with, would be to test the waters by giving them a simple task then see how long it takes them, what the quality of the work is like, and so on. Then if the results are good present them with the project and use the milestones to continue testing them.

Last thing you want to do is reach that first milestone only to discover they were a complete waste of time and money.

 

My jest seemed to have not landed correctly.
I didnt consider in the jest Ony developing this with her team, solo dev - so she can get that new Mercedes or Beemer or Tesla.

 

well i haz this
https://connect.unity.com/p/58310fe7090915001a6cd816

and its a bit better now than that ...
id sell it for $xxxxx i guess
has level editor thats mostly finished huehuehue (needs lot more work took like ~2months .. the level editor)

 

When I opened this I saw one word " Styled" and can immediately say you should not pay to have this done. Create something unique and "fresh" to add to the market. You will not make a dime off a game that is similar to another in the long run. Unless of course you are using this as a project to show someone or something, and then I am not a big help

 

Go check out the top 100 grossing charts on iOS: its mostly casino games, clash-style building/battle games, and match-making puzzles games. They are all clones of each other. Most AAA's just build the same game over and over with slight refinements.

Successful games that push boundaries are an exception, not a rule. They tend to get a more media coverage because they make for a nice story, but building your own variation of tried and true concept is likely a much more viable business proposition*, the fact that you know the basic game mechanic is fun is already a big head start.

* Noting that most games aren't viable regardless

 

I said in the long run they will not be profitable. You can make small success building a "casino" type game right now with a lot of work, and marketing help. But it is not profitable in the long run, when you clone a game you are not adding anything to the market, even when you change some things. Changing the market is always better long run, change the way that users game and you will find success that will bring you long term

 

For every one successful mine craft there are a thousand successful FPSs. I'n not saying we should avoid innovation in game design. But to say that innovation is essential to success indicates a total lack of understanding of the games market. Successful clones happen all the time. In many cases the clones are more successful then the original games.

 

I guess you should really define "success"

 

But changing the market is also extremely hard. Sillicon Valley style unicorn-dreaming is great if you have an idea that you truly believe in, something that you are willing to put your heart and soul in to, to risk-it all for, then go for it. But to suggest that its sound business advice is crazy: most start-ups fail, most FUNDED start-ups fail.

In the context of games I'd go further, as the competition is particularly fierce. Building a game that Changes the Market is extremely unlikely.

 

So my advice of changing the market was accurate. Yes you are right, most businesses in general fail. I never said this was easy, if it was easy everyone would be wealthy. It is very hard to do something that no one else is doing because it can be "risky" meaning something that others are afraid to do. Risk taking is business, and developing a game is a business whether you are coding/programming or whatever.

 

The fact that you can't (or at least refuse to) differentiate between the risk of starting a business and the risk of creating a unicorn/market changing business makes me to shudder to think what kind of advice will be in your "business motivation book".

 

Tell that to King.com, which makes zillions of dollars with clone games.

Making money is the usual standard.

--Eric

 

There are a bunch of different ways. Financials are a good one. You could also look at installed user base. Or you could look at more ephemeral measures like cultural influence.

But which ever way you spin it, Call of Duty 317 and Assassin's Creed 112 are both successful games. Both of these game franchises are bywords for repeating the same basic formula over and over again.

Candy Crush was successful. And the match-3 design idea has been around for years before Candy Crush was thought of.

 

Sorry to reach so far back but I HAVE to comment on this.

This right here is the #1 problem that the industry faces.

Everyone is looking to make ALL the money, not some money.

Everyone goes straight to the top sellers and looks at ways to out do one another to get on that list and as a result you get a bubble that bursts when the market shifts.

AAA games are a PRIME example of this.

Look how AAA studios keep snowballing budgets and teams to make sure that their game will be a billion dollar baby.

But in effect they're investing WAY more money than what is smart, safe, or sane.

Red Dead Redemption was most likely the biggest fiasco to ever stubble on success. But you know what? I feel that the game was an extremely foolish venture even if it lucked out. That game put the whole studio on the hook for sequel to an unpopular game in an unpopular genre that needed to sell an obscene amount of copies before it would be profitable.

And now they're making a 3rd game and repeating the same risks. The studio is like a gambler who just keeps betting everything and will eventually loose.



I have a point to all this, I swear.

My point is that game developers, especially indie devs, should not be looking at the top 100 skinner boxes on app stores. They should be looking to find the sweet spot of dev cycles to success to maximize profit and grow a wide portfolio of titles so that their success is synergistic. And they should be mining for audiences that are not represented in the 80%.

 

That's not an app store problem. That's one of the general flaws in the capitalist system.

Don't get me wrong, the capitalist system has done great things for all of us. I wouldn't be here typing on a PC without it. But it does need a couple of minor tweaks here and there.

 

I was thinking about maybe another BMW but... I'm checking out an Alfa Romeo Spider and Triumph Spitfire tomorrow, so it might end up being one of those. I'm a tall gal, so not sure how that will work out. Something about those classic two seaters, though. mmmmm.

 

I never said you couldnt make money making clone games. I think you are making a terrible misunderstanding


Money = success ? I would have to disagree

I am able too, I was giving a opinion and in my book I do talk about both sides. Every business has its risks

Like I have said to past people, you can make familiar products and make a profit. Not disagreeing with you on this

 

I would suggest using rpgmaker, or even playmaker (unity). It will be cheaper and more fun than hiring a developer and the quality will be higher than hiring a developer.

Assuming you don't have $150k.

 

What about Game Maker?

 

That too. Anything except having the foolish notion that it makes sense to blindly hire developers to do it for you. That almost never works out unless you have a large budget and experience.

 

It's the price of having a business, right? There are huge expenses to pay and profit goals that must be met. So the logical thing to do is to keep churning out sequels until the day comes when one fails big time.

Hopefully, when that failure comes they have enough resources to focus on one more thing. You're right though about those epic budget productions. I read some place a year or two ago that many of the big companies are spending so much money on each game now they are one failure away from going out of business.

Not sure how accurate that is but it wouldn't surprise me at all if say the next COD game sold only 1/10th of the last one for that company to do some massive layoffs and restructuring at the least. They just have so much money invested into these games and every new game seems to increase that significantly. Eventually something has to change I think.

 

Basically everyone has lined it out so just a summary...

You need to be far more detailed in the requirements before you attempt to contract out the work.

If you go that route you should structure it as milestones. Pieces. Not the entire project at a lump. This is easier to manage for the developer(s) and you as well as minimizing your risk.

You can use Construct, Gamemaker, RPGmaker, Unity with Playmaker to either fully create the game yourself or at least to do as much as you can (which will also decrease the cost because you'll only need to contract out the work for the parts you are unable to do).