How much $$ should I expect to pay for an indie game music?

I'm currently paying almost 600 dollars per track for my game, but it's worth it as the music is fantastic.

 

I've been doing music as a hobby / semi-pro thing since I was about 8 years old. To run a studio is VERY expensive, having decent audio gear is ridiculous in cost. I'll start with the basic things a studio would have and cost, a decent interface I/O like Apogee Symphony ($3400.00), Monitors ($2500.00) room treatment ($2000.00 min for a small room), decent MAC ($2000.00) basic DAW and orchestral tools ($1500.00), a half decent condenser microphone ($600.00, Mojave Fet for anyone interested, they are AWESOME), software compressors / limiters / mastering tools ($2000.00).. This isn't including instruments..

It costs around $14K for a mid level / semi pro home studio without any instruments. Bigger studios will drop three times that on a mixing desk alone.

$300.00 per minute is cheap..

That being said, some do have cheap(ish) home studios you probably will be able to get something out of them. Issue is the quality varies wildy, I have heard some people on sub par gear do excellent work and I've heard people with expensive gear do bad work.

It's more down to finding a professional with a good track history that knows what tools he needs, then paying what he requests (if you want the best that is).

 

It's good information to know. And unfortunately, the customer rarely cares how much it costs YOU, only how much it costs THEM. Which is why amateur musicians perform for peanuts and games are essentially free. As an example, I purchased Kevin MacLeod's entire music collection, to say thanks for writing wonderful music and making it available for free. Until the day I decide to contract for some custom music, it's a low-cost, win-win solution. $26 for 1062 songs.

Gigi

 

It's one of those things, if you're doing low cost Indie games then you grab whatever you can get your hands on. If you're entering the A / AA or AAA segment. You pony up for the best people and the best quality, point of the previous post being decent custom music costs a lot of money because of the tools and skills they need.

 

$300 a minute of music? No one pays that type rate to create a 3D character model. You're not dealing with Paul Williams.

If you want to make a game, make a game. If you want music so good that'd you'd pay $300 a minute for it I suggest you release it for radio play rather than a game. For a game, sound effects are needed but for ambient game music let them choose from their own MP3s.

Sometimes you known when you here a statement like $300 a minute you know it was someone that has read one too many financial column dealing with Wall Street speculators.

For games there are plenty of free PD music clips and with modern synthesizers it's easy to create music that you like on the fly with a little training. I'm not exaggerating with the modern keyboard synthesizers; true I played violin for 3 or 4 years as a child but it's been a long time and I reviewing these electronic keyboards for a hobby was pretty impressive in their sound and capabilities.

 

I'm not a musician, but I know musicians and know the market enough. Sure, if you're doing a game by yourself and have no business plan and no money $300 per minute is a lot, but if you're working professionally and thus need a professional soundtrack and not a cheap "let me play with a fancy keyboard" one it's not a lot at all.

 

@goat

Firstly never use lossy formats for game music , secondly I agree it's generally for the AAA name brand composers that charge that sort of money (if not far more) and it is cheap for the best. But they can afford to live off their own reputation, generally for custom music you can find decent composers out there that would do a pretty mean soundtrack for $500 - 1000. Some even less but you're playing with a quality variable at some point.

OR, you can just get them for next to nothing pre-made from various places. Which in terms of atmosphere might suit better.

Choice is up to the development company.

 

Well, for starters, I know industries where people would indeed pay something approaching (potentially even exceeding) $300/hr for 3D modelling.

Putting that aside, though, check out ShadowK's costing for a minimal, entry-level home setup for semi-pro music creation. Compare that to how much it costs to get started in 3D modelling. The price is perfectly justified.

Plus, the value of each music asset in your game is arguably far higher than any individual 3D model. A small game might have 3 to 6 tracks and between them equal 100% screen time. Any given model is unlikely to get more than say 20% screen time, and will be sharing potential attention amongst dozens of other models.

As for the idea of getting $300/minute music and playing it on radio... the stuff that gets played in radio costs far more than that. A studio album lasting less than an hour is commonly a year in the making with many high-cost studio sessions, not to mention paying a whole band (not just one composer) for that entire duration and a time share of the variety of people required to support them...

As for the idea of not needing music particular to a game... I know some people like using their own music, but I can't stand that as it's often jarring, and music often has a huge impact on a game for me. Check out either of Supergiant's games for examples. Would you suggest playing random MP3s over the top of a movie instead of the purpose-mixed soundtrack that comes with it? :-/

 

Hi

I'm a musician and I'm gonna chime in on this because I like to be fairly transparent about my rates and it's really helpful for me to understand what's reasonable to charge. It's true that gear can get super expensive but that's not really a trait exclusive to the music industry and once that barrier to entry is passed it's really only about time and ability. I have a few bits of equipment, my mac included, that cost me a fair bit so I drive a cheaper car instead. No great shakes, it's not the only industry that requires equipment and training and I don't think that's a valid reason for high prices.

I also don't like the idea of charging different people different amounts based solely on 'what they'll pay' so I base my rates on the time it takes me to write and the quality of the music I'm able to produce.

I have an exclusive rate that works out at $340 p/min and a non exclusive rate for $85 p/min. Naturally I've had people tell me that's too high and others tell me it's a good price. I think that they're pretty reasonable rates given that if someone opts for an exclusive track it'll cover my time and even at the non-exclusive rate, though I'll make a loss time wise, I'll eventually make that money back by re-licensing the track. This is a rate I can afford to charge, given the frequency of work. This obviously won't be true of everyone and I expect some people will work for much less and some for free. I'm all for collaborations and I'll definitely always consider them but in general if someone can't afford it then they can always buy one of my packs (some of them are free).

As my experience and ability increases it will be possible for me to ask for more. For now though, even after seven years of scoring short films and doing other projects for free, I'm just getting started in this as a business and right now I want to be doing the work more than I want to be charging top dollar.

My stuff here:
johnleonardfrench.co.uk
Asset Store

 

Hi there guys.
I was looking around and stumbled upon this old thread. It was just what I was looking for.
I´m currently looking for Indie Devs interested in good quality compositions for their games.
I will keep this short and let you see (or hear) for yourself.
If some of you guys are looking for this kind of quality, send me a message! I´d be more then happy to join your projects. =)

Cheers!

Pirate- ish and celtic music:
https://soundcloud.com/valcard-blackbeard/under-the-black-flag
https://soundcloud.com/valcard-blackbeard/buaidh-no-bas

Electronic/Cinematic (nice for loops) :
https://soundcloud.com/valcard-blackbeard/revelation
https://soundcloud.com/valcard-blackbeard/digital-transcendence
https://soundcloud.com/valcard-blackbeard/anima-secta

Orchestral Stuff:
https://soundcloud.com/valcard-blackbeard/10-initium-novum
https://soundcloud.com/valcard-blackbeard/arcanum
https://soundcloud.com/valcard-blackbeard/harrowing-demise

Ambient/Horror:
https://soundcloud.com/valcard-blackbeard/haunted-hills
https://soundcloud.com/valcard-blackbeard/downfall
https://soundcloud.com/valcard-blackbeard/the-bomb

For more, just visit my Soundcloud Profile. =)

 

Hello!
I just found this forum when I found someone asking about what should he charge is clients.

I was starting from $10/minute and now I'm still hanging on at $75/minute. But there are still so many people think that $75/minute of custom made and royalty free music is too expensive. Or is it because my skill is still too low?

You can check my portfolio here https://soundcloud.com/catalistic/sets/portfolio

If it's because I'm still bad at making music, feel free to give me some advice and constructive criticism!

 

Quick suggestion, it never hurts to just straight up ask a small band if you can get permission to use their music in exchange for free publicity.

I did this back around 2000 and asked a band if i could use a song for free and they said yes. Never made the game so I didn't use the song, but a couple years later everyone knew who Dashboard Confessionals were and that would have been a major boost for me if I was competent enough to make said game.

EDIT: Of course the song I asked permission for was "Again I Go Unnoticed" and I don't think anyone knows that song by now.

 

$75/min doesn't seem crazy to me. And, making music is a hard line of work. For what it's worth, your music is fine. Keep striving to make better music. I'll add you to my list for future consideration, though I generally use Kevin Macleod (incomepetch.com free) or Dan O Connor (danosongs - free).

Gigi

 

The cost range for freelancers is all over the map. You can hire quality talent for nothing or top dollar. The way things work right now with globalization (and with the reality of making a living as a freelancer) prices have a huge range.

With globalization and stuff, communication being easier, and work being done remote, you can really pay what you like.

The same goes for 3d models, 2d art, programming, really any creative profession where the main cost is time. Globalization has entirely changed the world of freelance and there are very talented people, capable of very high quality work, who will do it for very little money in first world, major city terms.

 

I was talking with some artists and it's $23 on average per track, with possible discounts if you want more tracks (e.g. full ost), but that depends on the artist and style (symphonic music will always be more expensive than say, a chiptune).

 

Thank you for your reply!

Glad to know that and of course, I will always improve my skill to create something I always want to create.

I don't make music to get money, I need money to make more music.

 

Hello,

I am an independent musician, willing to compose music for interesting games. I mainly compose orchestral and metal music.

Please check out the cinematic and game music collection in my stock portfolio:

http://audiojungle.net/collections/5244717-epic-cinematic-game-music

The collection includes orchestral tracks covering a wide range of moods: meditative, dynamic, battle-like, mysterious. I can compose custom music depending on your game's needs. If you are interested in my music, feel free to contact me via PM.

Thanks!

 

Help an indie brother out... find someone offering free music and donate. Then you choose the price. Lots of good musicians out there that need exposure, message me for a couple.

 

hi! my name is kamil. a musician & indie game music composer. and just want to share my experience. my rate on exclusive was $ 171,2 and $42,8 for non-exclusive license, per minutes.

last month i worked on side scrolling game : metaloid origin demo project developed by Retro Revolution, composing non-exclusive license music but gives them a full time attention to their game, 4 different music (each +/- 1 minute per music) only cost them in total about $170. that price was after discount about $1,2 + i give them a bonus music about 10 sec (for victory theme).

I don't know about you, but that was the lowest rate i can offer to the game developer. here's the link of my recent work : HappyFans on SoundCloud ; HappyFans on Youtube (sorry, both uploaded in low bitrate quality)

if you need any help for your project, you can contact me by email : mkamil.sudrajat@gmail.com or via facebook

ps: currently, i have no idea how to make an orchestra music.. LOL

 

Sounds good to me - I'd accept those terms! https://soundcloud.com/lyncisat

Deal?

 

That's nice and reasonable that musicians want to earn a living making music too and if you have the money and they have the talent to compose truly unique music that is suited to your game then go for it.

Otherwise there are plenty of CC0 and similar music sites out there or you can pay a nominal fee for something in the asset store or similar music site knowing the number of games released vs the actual number of gamers is so lopsided must gamers won't know you are using music like hundreds and even many more than hundreds from the asset store anyway.

 

Just found this thread when looking for some advice about how much to charge for music for an indie VG. Even though I had no idea so far, I know that music platforms like youlicense, or licensequote set reasonable prices: U$300 per track (2.5 to 3 minutes) for indie and double that for commercial releases. Nevertheless, I think collaborating with vide-game developers is always a good option as you will make what you do anyway, in non-exclusive bases and negotiating a % on sales can be a great deal. The question is: what %? In films a musician can charge between 8 and 15% (i think) of the general budget. Is it crazy to think on that percentage over sales in this industry? Here some music for you devs consideration: https://soundcloud.com/sound-for-your-media and our updating youtbe channel: https://goo.gl/cbe4Pm Do not hesittate to comment, share, subscribe, and constructively critize

 

What would happen if one was to steal the music from one of these royalty free audio sites? how would said person get caught? and what would happen to said game if it were on steam etc?

But most importantly how would said person get caught?

I mean these royalty free sites have a play button for each song whats stopping anyone from just using a audio recorder to record it and use it in their game?

 

If said person is continually asking how they might get caught... just kidding.

 

LOL

 

Yeah, this is starting to get less amusing... You're posting an awful lot lately asking questions that are borderline advice on how to pirate. As someone who sells content I worked hard to create, I'm not entertained at your probing for information on how to use others' hard work for yourself for free.

I'd suggest you knock it off. If you can't afford modeling software or music licenses, you don't need to use them.

 

When did I ever say I was pirating / stealing? my steam list has over 70 Games all bought with real money because I wanted to support the devs. And believe you me I didn't have to do that as I could have very well gotten those games free if I wanted. Infact my most played game is DOTA 2 and Heroes of Newerth. Both free to play games.

I am merely pointing out what millions of people are doing right now and what steps people like you have taken to prevent this. And FYI a person pirating something is was NEVER going to buy it from you in the first place.

Just get down on your bending knees and thank the good lord jeebus that digital piracy is nothing like real piracy out in the open seas. Seeing that someone stealing a clone of something you created and was never going to buy it from you in the first place does not in anyway affect you.

What the hell is stopping ANYONE from just recording a sound from the playlist on those sites and putting it in their game? or recording a song from youtube

Keep your panties out of a knot sir.

 

Why are you consistently bringing piracy into discussions?

 

400$+ per minute is reasonable when you consider that a professional composer has to spent a 5 figure sum in hard- and software, practice his craft for the bigger part of his life and will have done plenty of unpaid spec-work up until the point where people finally start paying him for real. It's a really tough market.

While I agree that reaper is an amazing DAW, it is not free. Very very affordable and more than worth the money, but not free.

Except the years of practice till you can do anything worth a damn. I actually did what you propose and it took me roughly 700-1000 hours of practice and ~2000-3000 Euro in hard- and software to be on a level where I can make things like this:
http://www.keinebilder.de/temp/last-stand-at-galdaha-track-1.wav (~25mb)


Edit: FFS I got baited into replying to a post that is several YEARS old because someone necroed a thread again. Sometimes I which there was some kind of visual indicator or a warning when you quote a post that is more than a month old.

 

That is a terrible metaphor and also not true.

 

The thing is, that's not what you're doing. How individuals get caught and what happens afterwards really isn't anything to do with the steps we can take to protect things, and it's thoroughly beyond me as to why one content creator would try to convince another that the theft of their work isn't a bad thing.

 

Consider this, what you charge for in a first world economy does not equal the same to a 3rd world economy.

This is why companies sell $60 AAA titles for $10 in some countries. To them its better to make chicken feed than nothing at all. And its not that 3rd world countries can't afford your product, its simply what you perceive to be worth that price in a first world country does translate the same in a 3rd world.

My brother makes a lot of money he drives a regular econo Honda. He however has a very nice house something that a doctor would afford. And he has 2 games on his steam library, Left 4 Dead 2 and Dirty Bomb. One cost $5 and the other cost $0 cause its free to play.

He thinks that most games are not worth the asking price, I think the same. (I have spent $800 USD on skins in heroes of newerth) far more than my whole steam game library which I have 0.1 hours play time in most, He spends money on what he thinks is of value and priority. He used to pirate games, but because he can play the same 2 multi player games over and over especially thanks to workshop mods in Left 4 Dead. He simply does not bother to pirate and has not pirated a game in 7 years neither has he played anyother game besides L4D and Dirty Bomb in that time period aswell.

So I could never understand this stupid idea that Piracy causes a loss of revenue to a company. If Piracy didn't exist people would simply use open source or find alternatives or do without. Therefore someone stealing a clone of your product does not affect you in anyway, if you think its anything else then you are a fool.

Digital piracy is not the same as piracy out in the open waters, if it was then that one game you made would be gone forever if 1 pirate got his hands on it. I can't understand why this is such a hard concept for reasonably intelligent people here to understand.

 

I don't think this discussion is worth the risk of getting moderators annoyed at you for advocating piracy.

 

I am not advocating piracy I am just pointing out the obvious.

Someone who pirates a digital product is never going to buy it in the first place so the developer does not lose out. I also know lots of people who pirate new $60 games and when it goes on sale for $10 they purchase it to support the developer because they think its worth whatever the price is.

You clearly have no clue how the mind of a pirate operates do you?

 

Why are you consistently bringing piracy into discussions? Why are you consistently trying to justify it?

 

I am trying to educate others on the matter.

 

We're already very aware of piracy. We don't like to constantly be reminded. Why don't you go work on a game?

 

I am going to do that right now.

 

Are you going to give it away for donations when it's done?

 

Yes I am planning to, why?

 

Because that's the logical outcome of your diatribe from above. If people will just pay what they think something is worth then not only is IP protection counter-productive, but so is a fixed price tag. If someone is willing to give me $10 in 18 months then I sure as heck may as well let them give me $10 now.

Never mind all the people that would have given me $60...

 

I think you speak a lot of sense. I should charge for my product and see whats the highest price the consumer is willing to pay.

 

You'd probably like the Humble Widget for payments then.

https://www.humblebundle.com/developer/widget

 

It does.

For a one-man setup trying to do something it can be incredibly discouraging. So someone who was making something cool for money... might stop making that after seeing pirates.

Yes, it isn't stealing. And big game studios can account for piracy.

However, in case of art creation or individual composers... if you swipe someone's tune or art piece and start using it for commercial purposes, the moment you're caught, it is personal, because you're stealing their cut of the profits. The composer will most likely sue, and will have moral reason to pursue maximum possible punishment for you specifically.

It certainly doesn't sound that way. Everybody is educated already. Couple of people (including me) discussed piracy and its causes in detail in the forums. Also, games are luxury and entertainment items, not necessary work tools. So, if you think price is too high, don't buy them.

 

That is pretty nice, thanks.

I hope to sell it on steam aswell. I have looked at steam spy website and really crappy and low quality games sell atleast 1000 copies at around $5 to $10 on steam,

 

@WalkingDead - "AK47" is trademarked. The irony is so overwhelming, I don't know there's anything else to say.

Gigi

 

As is "Walking Dead"

 

This discussion has run it's course.