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How much money do you earn from your games?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by KaOzz, Oct 2, 2014.

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  1. Rajmahal

    Rajmahal

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    Which game?

    For me, my 2nd game (Demon's Rise 2) made a lot more than my first. I released back in November of last year and it has caused my daily income to jump from $10 to $35 a day to $50 to $200 a day (about $100 a day average). The game made about $10K in the first month and has made about $5K since then, each month.
     
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  2. Xaron

    Xaron

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    It's a submarine game.
     
  3. RuinsOfFeyrin

    RuinsOfFeyrin

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    Hey,

    So while I think its interesting to find out what other people have made on their games, it is lacking in a bit of useful information.

    For instance. Many people have stated they made X amount. But how was this amount made? Ads? In-Game purchases? Purchase of the game itself? I think the "how" the money was made is almost, if not more important then the actual amount made as well as the ways the developer is attempting to generate income. I think its might be important to state what platforms the game is available on, and maybe even break down revenue based on platform.

    For instance, if you game made $10,000 in a month, and you revenue streams were in-game purchases, in-game ads, and ads directly on the website for the game and you earned 8,000 through in game purchases (break it down more if one of those purchases is to remove ads), 500 through in game ads, and 1500 through website ads it would give more meaning to the numbers. Perhaps there is a noticeable trend that it is better to spend time to develop one revenue stream over another. For instance in the example i used it is much better to spend your time on in-game purchases and having a website with ads then putting ads in your game... mind you that is all theoretical numbers. The more information given, the more trends, patterns, etc that can be interpreted from it.
     
  4. Toxophilite

    Toxophilite

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    Man... This is somewhat disheartening lol. We have 2 games on the market now and I am getting ready to release a third but yeah we have received nothing so far. I think we are about 2000 in the whole so far (probably more but I really don't want to see how much haha)

    Our games here
     
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  5. simone9725

    simone9725

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    I've earned 0 from my game but I haven't paid anything so I don't see like a failure I ve spent my free time doing what I love.Someone cooks, another one plays basket so it depends. Probably you'll use good marketing services.Someone would advise a good one?
     
  6. Toxophilite

    Toxophilite

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    I guess I have stats on our games now... Sling it (which is totally awesome and you should download now) is at 11 cents in the last 3 weeks or so. I guess that puts us at 1999.89 in the hole now haha through unity ads as well.
     
  7. nbirko2928

    nbirko2928

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    I've earned a whooping $1.51 on my first game so far through Unity Ads. This is with about 20 users in one week. But a quarter of these users are people I know so I'm not getting my hopes up just yet.
     
  8. Toxophilite

    Toxophilite

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    wow thats a lot more than I have. We have 38 or so installs but only about 5-6 active users. We get about a penny a day haha
     
  9. nbirko2928

    nbirko2928

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    Out of the people I know that downloaded it, only 2 are actually active, the other active users being unknown is rather amusing me. I'm getting ready to push out another update to the app along with a basic promotional video, hopefully I can get more installs, I think the gameplay is somewhat addictive.

    Also I feel like I'm showing the ads a little too much, basically every time your gameplay session ends, an ads shows up, I'm thinking of lessening that to one ad per 2 or 3 sessions. It's less revenue, but I'm more interested in the user's satisfaction than the money, well, unless I have 1,000,000 active users, then it's back to one ad per session :p
     
  10. N1warhead

    N1warhead

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    Honestly, I hate the fact of IAP's and Ad's but sadly that's the only way to make money on mobile.
    And the key sadly is mental manipulation. Truly - it is.... Get the player hooked, then be like watch this ad for 500 gold, or share your farm on facebook for 1000 gold, then have a 10 year research after a month of them playing it, and the only way to complete the research is to be like give me 400 dollars...... It's truly sad that this works, but it is true. You can see it from every single popular free game there is.... But aside from that, marketing is key, if you don't have marketing, you're plainly going to fail - unless you're a flappy bird rareness lol.
     
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  11. HemiMG

    HemiMG

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    When I made my first real attempt at a freemium game is also when I swore off mobile development. Instead of spending time trying to figure out ways to make the game more fun, I was spending time trying to figure out how to manipulate them into buying something. That isn't what I want my work to be about. But as you said, that's pretty much the way things are on mobile now.
     
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  12. Toxophilite

    Toxophilite

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    Oh dang.. yeah my game is somewhat addictive from what I have heard as well but its hard so I'm afraid people get frustrated haha. I have a check in mine so that after 3 deaths, you have a 20% chance of showing and ad and that resets after you get an ad. You die very often in my game so showing one every death is a sure way for me to get everyone to uninstall haha. Marketing is the hard part :-/ at least for us.
     
  13. nbirko2928

    nbirko2928

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    If I had a game like Flappy Bird where you die very easily, I would never dare show an ad per session, more like an ad per 5 sessions minimum. I consider this player abuse and I've uninstalled many apps for that reason. But my game is somewhat long and losing takes a while as it's a progression (Sort of like playing a game like Tetris). After a 5-10 minutes of playing, I can easily see the person putting the game down and playing it later to beat their previous score, therefore they'll never get a chance to watch the ad and I won't make any money.

    Personally I'd rather not show ads at all, but this is my first game and I'm still learning the ropes so to speak.

    Yea if it's one of those that are easy to die, you're better off not showing the ad every session.

    To be honest with you, if I have an opportunity to work on a good team that's working on a cool game for PC and aiming to release to Steam, I would much prefer to work on that than on mobile games. The issue is I'm new to game development and being a programmer, I lack other skills, so naturally the mobile market is the first one I can do solo given my lack of experience and how easy it is to develop for the platform.

    I'm trying to build my network in the indie circles, I recently joined a local indie development group in my area on meetup.com, hopefully I can connect with others and work on future projects.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
  14. CarterG81

    CarterG81

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    Between the endless hordes of competing apps and the morally questionable methods of monetization, I honestly do not even get the appeal of developing for mobile, when the PC market is so open. I mean, developers complain about getting exposure on PC/Steam...I can't even fathom the greater magnitude of getting exposure on mobile.
     
  15. yoonitee

    yoonitee

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    Enough to live on, pay the rent, etc. Not enough to eat out every night. Still have to budget.

    BTW be careful what you wish for. Especially if you're a particularly lazy person like me, once you earn enough to live on your motivation to do stuff can decrease rapidly. And then the guilt sets in that you're not being creative enough. That's when people can start questioning the meaning of it all and join cults like scientology. :/
     
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  16. simone9725

    simone9725

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    Yes but every developper wants to become rich so the ads system is a must have.It's up to developper not overcharge the game with ads.I d prefer earn less money but have a game where the player could play the game
     
  17. Toxophilite

    Toxophilite

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    Fair enough :) Yeah this is my first game as well although I work with a friend and he has 2 out now but we are still getting the ad stuff figured out. I am currently working on a microtransaction to get rid of ads (rather than having to support 2 apps in google play). Its risky in the event that it does go viral, but I may as well buy the lottery at that point ha. Well good luck and I hope your app send many riches your way!
     
  18. CarterG81

    CarterG81

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    Not every developer wants to become rich. In fact from my understanding, the majority just want to make enough to survive or be comfortable (but not excessively wealthy).

    Going further, not even every developer even wants to make money. Many develop as a hobby, for fun, or for free.

    I personally do it first & foremost for the love of the games. As a gamer, I'm desperate for quality games that fill my niche. I am not satisfied with what currently exists. If I make money, I will use it to make games much faster, absolutely. But I got into gamedev to make quality games & improve the industry, not to make money and not even to sustain myself financially (although I'd be fine with that). To me, anything less than "For the sake of the games" is significantly less relevant.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2017
  19. yoonitee

    yoonitee

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    Where do you live that it costs $170 a month to live? Is it a nice place to live? I'm packing my bags!
     
  20. Raven000

    Raven000

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    Not every developer wants to become rich. And even then, ads is not the way to become rich simply because it can deter a lot of potential customers (aka: money walking out the door).
     
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  21. ADNCG

    ADNCG

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    Same could be said for premiums.
     
  22. yoonitee

    yoonitee

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    Also, it just feels nicer somehow for people to buy your game than to get money from ads or in-app purchases which kind of feels like trickery. That's why I'm happier making PC games than mobile games.
     
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  23. theANMATOR2b

    theANMATOR2b

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    Ads are not a must. This is a fallacy sold by advertisers, and the industry unfortunately swallowed it whole.

    We are developing for mobile - demo with the premium option to unlock the complete game. Players will get a chance to play an extensive demo for free and if they choose purchase the complete game.
    Best for both the developer and players.
    If it sells well - yay, if it sells poorly - shrug, on to the next game. ;)
     
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  24. justanobody

    justanobody

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    For my first game I spent 18 months and spent $5,000 on tools, paying artists, paying composers, making a company, getting a lawyer as was advised to me. I have only made $500 on Steam in a year. It went through Greenlight in a month. The game had a few videos from popular Youtubers playing the Steam demo and there was at least one video with almost 1 million viewers. It failed to translate to sales. In the 18 months I learned all there was to know and now I'm absolutely efficient enough to have been hired for a few side projects.

    Programming for side projects has net me $2,000 in flat fees and a friend I trust gave me a 50 / 50 split to make his game less garbage. When the game was released within the first week on Steam it made $3,000. That wasn't enough for him. He is the type of person that sold 100,000 copies of the game for $1,000 and bundled the game several times. With card money, bundles, and sales on Steam the game has made me $10,000 in 6 months and honestly the game looks god awful. There's no way I'd buy it. So I opted to have my name pulled from the credits. He keeps tweaking things and messing things up, and puts an update on Steam but never tells me about it so when I go to play it after 2 weeks it plays awful.

    For my second game I spent 1 month and $200 on it and an extra $50 on ads for the Google adwords.and $25 for the ability to be on Google Play. So under $300. It never made any money on Google. When I ported it to Steam I spent an extra 2 months as I waited for Greenlight and its made $300 in 6 months. People seem shocked its sold such few copies.

    Everything at this point would be profit on that second game if I hadn't promised the artist 50% (along with paying him $200). The artist stopped working at the 1 month part and its been all me for those 2 months porting it to Steam and supporting it afterward. We have no contract, but I am a man of my word so he's made $150 of that $300 for doing nothing after that initial one month.

    Because the artist bailed, I got much better at art. Six months later, I just do everything myself but the music. I am not the quality that the hired artists are, but I am still quality.

    I have become so good at art that people have hired me to do their art. In the past 3 months making art for other people I've made around $5,000. Quite honestly I'm cheap because I've priced artists and I'm not as good as the people I priced, but wow the work seems to have piled up enough that I might have to increase my price. I still have my day job so doing art at night consumes my game development time, but there has been a week where there's a lull so I take the time to make a little game and throw it out there for free.

    * edit * I should specify I was paid $4,000 in flat fees for art, but a game did so well on its first week of launch the game developer was generous enough to give me 4 extra payments over a month that totaled $1,000.

    I can barely sell a game, but I can make money making games for other people.
    $-5,300 expenses from making games.
    $+800 income from games.
    = -$4,500 after game development for 2.5 years with 1 year selling
    $+7,000+ in programming and making art for other games
    $+10,000+ working with my shady developer friend.

    I would tell you my games, but I feel being anonymous like this is the only way I can be honest.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2017
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  25. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    That was a really interesting read, thanks for sharing. I'd be interested to know roughly what percentage of income from the 10k$ you earned from that collab is coming from steam trading cards alone.
     
  26. justanobody

    justanobody

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    My cut was:

    $6,500+ in card money over 5+ months (the first 2 months of cards were maybe $5 each even after the IndieGala bundle)

    Its one thing to just dump the cards on market, but people have bought the cards. There are 1,500+ of each card on the market. From the look of it each card, now six months later still sells 200 a day. So 200 x 5 = $10 a day. Looking back it used to be 700 - 1,000 per day per card. You can tell when he made the deal with the devil because it jumps from about 20 a day per card when the IndieGala bundle happened to 200. Once cards hit 3 - 4 cents then they started to sell in the 400 a day per card. If cards get 6 or 7 cents it drops down to maybe 6 sold per day. The number fluctuates, 400 one day, 6 the next, back up to 400 all depending on the price.

    While I have exact numbers tucked away in accounting software, if I remember correctly my share of the $10,000 was:

    $1,000 in first week sales.
    $1,000 in 6 months of sales on Steam because the game is often sold at 80% discount
    .
    $300 for being in an IndieGala bundle (it was lumped into a Christmas sale at a discount and sold 10,000 bundles)
    $300+ in at least 4 other bundles or maybe more. I have lost track
    $500 for the deal with the devil for 100,000 keys
    $250 for a second deal with a different devil for however many keys
    $500 for yet a third deal with another devil for 100,000 keys

    I tend to look at the numbers a lot. My friend is still miffed that it didn't make more money. It was his baby for 6 months before me.

    It has 30 non key reviews, 500 key reviews and it sits at very positive. Most of the reviews are 1 line of comedy.

    As for my 2 Steam games they get $1 - $2 a month in card money each. I have noticed my cheaper game sells more copies if the cards are under 5 cents, but right now the cards sit at 20 cents each and I haven't sold more than 5 copies in a month.

    I do feel bad about making a garbage product, but at the end of the day its the project that made money.
     
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  27. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    Wow, that's crazy. I wouldn't have thought card money makes up such a big share of the profit. Now I kinda see why people keep cranking out shovelware. Do you think those 100000 key deals were for resale or were they dumped straight into a key-farming botnet? That whole system sounds rather exploitable to me.
     
  28. QFSW

    QFSW

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    Indeed it really was a big issue that was exploited, now that I wonder what Valves new confidence metric will be composed of, hopefully it helps squash this practice

    Not an attack to you @justanobody btw, just so we are clear
     
  29. justanobody

    justanobody

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    To be honest I feel worthy of attack since I'm part of it. Its all his decisions for better or worse, but I'm part of it. It still feels like a garbage game for the art alone. He kept telling me he'd get someone else to do the art, but it never happened. Its no asset flip, its 100% our work. His art, his wife's music, but that still doesn't change what it is.

    I can only speculate that the game would not meet a confidence metric, but then again neither would my two games.
     
  30. justanobody

    justanobody

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    When I was kept in the loop more I was told the first 100,000 keys were bot farmers. He also gave them my Steam name and I just blocked them when they had a friend request. I've blocked many people looking for free keys or cheap sold keys. I at least hear what they say because its interesting, but in the end... block. Chances are it makes me look bad because I have 500 blocks and those blocks are still on my friends list because Steam doesn't defriend them and I'm too lazy to defriend them.

    The second 100,000 keys I can only speculate. Why would a bot farmer buy more keys? How can a bot farmer make money on 100,000 keys? Someone has to buy them and apparently someone does. People must want them, but I still don't know why. Is it to get a bigger rank? To what end? Is it to launder money as some have speculated. There has to be a better way to launder money than cards. Maybe I'm just joyfully ignorant.

    In the past month, I have now learned there are a few websites that sell games for 7 cents. Heck some even less than that. Some bundles have situations where you buy 10x the bundle for 3x the price. Suddenly the race to the bottom makes sense. Now there are plenty of 30 - 40 games for $1! I would name names, but why give them the publicity?

    Both my games have yet to be in bundles. I don't want keys just floating out. If I make $30,000 per game then I'd do a bundle or at least a 90% discount. Some have advised me to give away my games until they do sell.

    Sorry for the walls of text. This has just been building up inside so long. I don't dare talk about it. I want to be a positive success story and not a negative bitter dev.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2017
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  31. QFSW

    QFSW

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    I don't really think you're as bad as you seem to think, what makes you think your games wouldn't satisfy the confidence metric?

    Pretty much, I know somebody who literally pays a service to buy games, idle on them and get the trading cards for him. No gain other than steam level. Heck he doesn't even know what games its getting, pretty stupid I know, but people do do it, and that's why there's a market for it.

    No need to apologise, has been very insightful to read
     
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  32. justanobody

    justanobody

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    Lack of sales. Lack of people getting achievements. Lack of people in the forum. The games look dead even when I update each about once a month whether its major or minor. On the plus side the people who have reviewed the games have plenty of hours in the games, but the second game only 10% of players have the first achievement which is common with games that people idle.

    The return rate on my first game is 13%. The return rate on the second game is 5%. In all honesty I thought it would be reversed as the first game has far more time, money and effort put into making it a better experience players can get 2 hours if they speed run it as I do with coupled with a rogue-like mode for replay value.

    But since the confidence metric is unknown, I can only speculate. I could be on the good side because I've only given out maybe 50 keys to friends, artists, composers and small Youtubers I know. Then again if that was the case, people can do that to break through the confidence metric and then sell 100,000 keys.

    Maybe I will seem to be more legit as I have a real company and Steam / Valve has had to call me to clarify something.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2017
  33. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    Would you say this kind of strategy works out, or would you see bigger benefit to giving out many more free keys in hope of reviews and coverage?
    I haven't released anything yet, not sure if I ever will, but I can relate to not wanting to be in bundles and keys ending up on G2A etc..
     
  34. justanobody

    justanobody

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    Chances are if you ever bundle it, expect to struggle to get sales ever again. I have heard a few people say after the first 3 days your game won't sell until its on a big sale. Perhaps larger, more desirable games that get press coverage continue to get sales no matter what. Most of my first game's money was made on a 50% sale. After that 50% off, it won't sell at 25% off, in fact it didn't sell at the second 50% off sale.

    My first game got coverage from the Steam demo. One Youtuber's video had almost 1 million views. The demo was downloaded maybe 20,000 times for the first 2 months on Steam. Chances are people played the game, found out its not for them and moved on or there's just a big market for demos and free games.

    Three of my friends have blindly given out plenty of free keys to anyone claiming they're a Youtuber, gotten zero coverage and had the keys end up on G2A. Not all of them of course.

    The third friend used a service that pairs keys to real Youtubers. He only has 1 review after 3 months and the review is basically "check out this Youtube video." His situation is probably worse than mine. He spent 2 years, he and his wife, she did the art, he made the game and I'm under the impression that his game sold 30 copies or less at $5. He had a sound theory too.... sell the game for cheap then when it gets great reviews, up the price to what it should be.

    An indicator of how well the game would sell was a failed Kickstarter for $15,000 and it failed to break triple digits. Kickstarter is a good measure to determine success long before its ever out. However, giving money for a product long before its a product should always bring concern.

    Chances are if a real Youtuber wants to cover the game they just buy it because its gotten enough coverage before its release to make it look desirable. Everyone else is playing it... so that reviewer, streamer, lets player will have to as well. Worst case is they can return it before 2 hours is up. 2 hours is enough to get in a quality feel for the game enough for a review. They have to know about it first. Build hype long before a game is released. Heck I dare say Greenlight is a great way to get eyeballs on your game without having to do anything.
     
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  35. particlemars

    particlemars

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    I made ZERO. No experience making money on Unity. I'm living with my parents. They told me to quit programming game. Unity is not helping you achieve success. Increase brain activity: math, physics, language, etc. It's waste of time. There are people out there made real money in real world: Restaurant, factory soldering, cash register, etc.

    I'm living a fear -- Throw away dream and move on. I made this game demo from scratch. No programming, game designing exprience, etc. it's plain simple.

    Pretty graphics.
     
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  36. zenGarden

    zenGarden

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    Because unlike many other jobs, a game product money income can not be predicted when you are not a big studio, there is factors like exposure, players appreciation, popularity.
     
  37. nipoco

    nipoco

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    Unity is just a tool. You won't be magically successful just by making games with it.

    Game dev was never easy. Even back in the shareware days. It's a market that changes constantly.
    Usually, you have to start small and build a back catalog of games that bring you money in. The people who make it with only one hit game, are absolutely rare.
    Build a fanbase around your games, be active on social media. And don't give up too easily.

    Having a day job that brings the money in, while working on your games, is never wrong. This can be still game related like programming, 3D modeling, sound design, etc.
    If you really love making games, you don't have to throw away your dream. You just need a realistic view on how things work in this market.
     
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  38. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    One that realistically may never go away if you're like the vast majority of people who become game developers. I highly recommend you watch the following GDC Vault video. It's a far more realistic example of how the industry will be for us than looking at the one hit wonders which are very few.

    By the way he may not have a one hit wonder but I'd argue that he's far more successful than many developers on these very forums because he's made it his full time job whereas many of us are working non-game related careers to make our living.

    http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1023432/The-No-Hit-Wonder-11
     
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  39. nipoco

    nipoco

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    One of my favorites. Definitely a genuine and eye-opening speech.

    The biggest issue in my opinion is, that a lot people dive into game dev with wrong expectations and then wonder, why they are not making millions like Jonathan Blow, or Notch.
     
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  40. justanobody

    justanobody

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    It was an entertaining speech. I am curious was this a real speech or a parody? He made 7 match 3 games over 11 years all with the name "bonus" and revolving around holidays or seasonal themes. He also ruins it by the end and points out he had a few hits. For a full time job he works less than 40 hours a week for several weeks before crunch time?

    Correct me if I misunderstood, but toward the end he says porting wastes a lot of time that you could be using to make bigger money but had pointed out it was mobile ports that made him the most money years later.
     
  41. zenGarden

    zenGarden

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    This type of games is heavy focused on 3D graphics and effect, this far from the complexity of a full interactive real time 3D world and gameplay.

    Anyway, he exposed good advices :
    2 people > 1
    One step, one game at time.
     
  42. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Keep in mind he started in a time period when there simply weren't any alternatives. There were no stores like Steam where you could pay a small fee and publish your game and publishers didn't acknowledge the existence of indie developers. For those who started early simple games may not have been glamorous but that's about the only choice they had available.

    What he described as "hits" were simply games that were successful enough to justify developing them. Once again game development is a gamble. You may develop a successful game only to develop several more that are "misses". A game is only a "hit" if it can provide enough money for you to reach your next "hit".

    I believe he's referring to ports between devices that are not of a similar type. Porting a game from standalone to mobile is considerably more involved, and thus of considerably less value, than porting a game between two mobile platforms.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017
    theANMATOR2b likes this.
  43. Ryiah

    Ryiah

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Posts:
    20,951
    Is it? Sorry, I didn't see a game, I just saw a character moving around in a world. ;)
     
    Ironmax likes this.
  44. zenGarden

    zenGarden

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Posts:
    4,538
    I forgot to correct it like that :D
     
  45. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2013
    Posts:
    16,860
    You know, in this case I'm going to put it out there that its not making games that's your problem. Its working at home in isolation.

    Manufacturing is my home area. My current local team has about 60 people. Globally my company employs somewhere around 46,000 people. I have people that do sales and marketing. I have people that transport stuff around. I have people that run various pieces of equipment. And I have people that just manage other people.

    If I was to sit at home making paint on my own, I could probably top out my income at $50 a week. But with a massive team behind me all working together, we can each make a reasonably decent salary.

    My point is teams can generally do more then individuals. Very few people have what it takes to run every aspect of a business on their own. But throw together enough people with different skill sets into a team, and you can work wonders.

    So get out of your basement and go join an existing game development company. You'll find the money is better, and you might actually achieve something.
     
  46. zenGarden

    zenGarden

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Posts:
    4,538
    Join or make one, like many indies grouped together succesfully.
     
    Kiwasi likes this.
  47. Rajmahal

    Rajmahal

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Posts:
    2,101
    Quick update on my end. Have ironed out the bugs on android for my 2 games and things are going well. Still making $100 to $200 per day collectively.

    Should be launching my next big game in June and hopefully another one before the end of the year. My wife has quit her job and will likely start to help developing games soon.

    Will finally be paying taxes this year and have started a corporation so as to reduce that aspect. Corporation tax returns and such are quite tricky. It would be nice to have a forum section on that but I can understand why unity wouldn't want to have a section where potentially bad tax advice was being shared.

    Still only on IOS and Android. Hopefully will get into windows 10 and pc this year.
     
  48. Ironmax

    Ironmax

    Joined:
    May 12, 2015
    Posts:
    890
    You make nice games to :) i will release my 3 year project on Steam direct this summer.. i let you all know how that goes.
     
    dogzerx2, Martin_H and Rajmahal like this.
  49. dradb

    dradb

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2015
    Posts:
    86
    Your portfolio does not look like the work of 60 people. What products as your company built?
     
  50. Rin-Dev

    Rin-Dev

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Posts:
    574
    I'll have you all know, that my game has earned me $10 of ad revenue on Gamejolt in the last year. Hold your applause please
     
    TeagansDad and theANMATOR2b like this.
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