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How does one find/recruit partners for an indie game and what are some of the legal aspects?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by wheee09, Nov 22, 2019.

  1. wheee09

    wheee09

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    Hi all,

    To provide a bit of context here, I'm a developer/consultant working on a game by myself. I'm currently spending about 50% of time consulting and the other 50% on my game. I'm working towards the point where I'll be devoting more and more time on the game and less on the consulting.

    As my background is that of a pretty experienced full-stack developer... I'm hoping that in the not-so-distant future I'll be at a point where I can start looking for people to help supplement my gaps - ie. artists, animators, sound, etc.

    The good news is that I have some capital to leverage which means that hiring people could be an option. I'm also not against partnering with well-aligned people but having invested a lot of time and energy into this, I don't think someone could offer me so much value that I would consider giving up significant amount of ownership.. but who knows!

    Anyway, I have some questions...

    1. As I'm currently in Canada... if I were to work with or hire people from overseas, how does one protect intellectual property (ie. source code, game design and so on) from being stolen... or is that not really possible? For example, is there anything that could stop a hired developer with access to the project from taking an almost finished product and just launching it on Steam early access before I'm even aware of it?

    2. How feasible or difficult is it to find/work with people from other countries? Or is it better to try to find people that are local?

    3. What are the some of the ways to find artists?

    4. If you're going to partner with someone, what are some things that I should be wary of?


    Appreciate any thoughts or advice.
    Thanks!
     
  2. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

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    Don't be too polite in vetting people. I don't mean to be rude with your language, just be direct and make sure you get the information you need to be confident they are the right fit for the job. This can be as simple as having some lengthy phone conversations.

    It doesn't matter how a person acts or communicates when they're comfortable. What matters is how they operate under stress. You cannot accurately predict this. Therefore, the safest thing to do is not enter any binding contract with a person until you've been through the S*** with them and know if they are reliable. (or vet them through other people)

    Don't give up ownership. Only give responsibility to proven leaders, and only do so with clear contracts. The best coder/artist in the world can absolutely fail as soon as they get decision making responsibility. It is a different skillset. Many people perform great as followers -- and every team needs people like this. Beware the person who is a follower by nature but insist on being a leader. As is said in the military, "Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way."

    Don't make assumptions about what your partners/employees know or understand. Communicate everything and test for understanding. Always test.

    Beware the person who gets impatient with communication redundancy. If they don't understand why it's important, they are either dumb or inexperienced.

    If somebody has bad habits or gets complacent with communication, have predefined repercussions for dealing with this in a way that maintains mutual respect throughout the team. This is a way to squash many issues before they arise.

    Most of my work life has been in military or other high-risk jobs. I think in game studio, the way people communicate and treat each other is very different. But I say beware the person who wants to get all chummy right away. It is hard to work professionally with relationships like that. I think it's better to be friendly, sincere, honest, but keep a distance between self and coworkers. Professionals understand what kind of relationship is best for getting the mission accomplished. People who want to get too lax at work are more the types who make great government workers. You know, do almost nothing but show up everyday to collect the paycheck.

    In a partner, obviously the first checkbox is they have to demonstrate they have the appropriate skills that your project requires. I think the next important thing to test is that they consistently go out of their way to make sure they understand and are understood. Personally, I don't give a S*** if person is polite or friendly. But if I explain something half-assed and they aren't asking questions to clarify what I meant, I know there is going to be issues down the line. This is a good test to put people through. Give them a task but don't explain your standards completely. See what they do.

    The last most important thing is you want somebody with a demonstrated body of work that shows they finish work and have some degree of self quality control. You can of course motivate and push a person to go a bit beyond what they usually do, but that is not ideal as it takes energy you could be putting elsewhere.

    The very best coworker/partner is somebody who, by nature of their own example, motivates and pushes you, as well as creates new opportunities for project growth, foresees issues, and takes personal interest in whatever work they are doing.


    You can find artist by finding work on artstation you like and then emailing them. If you post "help wanted" ads on job boards, you will get a lot of crap to filter through.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
  3. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    If you go the partnership route, be sure to create a subsidiary and make them partners there. That way you protect the consulting business. If yuo go the partnership route, make sure they are part of the 1% top of the field.
     
  4. Socrates

    Socrates

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    First, any legal advice on the internet is not worth the pixels it is written on. Consult a lawyer(s) who specialize in the right fields and know your country's laws.

    1) Consult a lawyer for a well written contract. If someone steals your material, you will again consult a lawyer on how to pursue your copyright protections and have the game taken down.

    2) Other countries involves certain complications. One is that the laws on contracting/employment are likely to be different there. Another is that if there is a language difference, make sure that you can communicate effectively with the contractor or company you are hiring. (Gamasutra has articles from people who have run into both of these issues.) This should not stop you in and of itself, but if this is your first time ever hiring or teaming up, you may want to consider eliminating this possible point of friction.

    3) I haven't hired artists, so will let others answer that.

    4) Protect yourself legally. Protect your personal assets. Protect your investment in the project, both financially and time. In the US, this would likely involve forming a Limited Liability Corporation, setting up contracting, and (of course) spending time with a lawyer who knows what they are doing both before and during the process.

    You might also need a separate accountant, depending on what services your lawyer's office offers and how complicated things like taxes and payroll are.


    Based on personal experience, I will add four things regarding hiring a professional:
    • Never hire someone who doesn't have a portfolio you can go through in detail to make sure it is up to your standards.
    • Always check references.
    • Always set milestones so that you can get out if things are not working out.
    • If things feel off or sketchy, trust your gut.
     
    angrypenguin likes this.
  5. iamthwee

    iamthwee

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    I'm working on an app atm, and yes getting legal help is very much required in some circumstances. Dang expensive though but hey.
     
  6. MadeFromPolygons

    MadeFromPolygons

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    I can answer number 3:

    If you have a small budget / pocket change: You can go to freelancing websites like upwork, freelancer, or more cg focused ones (which are also much smaller) like freelancers3d but the quality and price will depend on the person you find, and info you provide, and the quality and people vary greatly.

    If you have an actual budget: Normally though you go through either an outsourcing agency, or work through your past clients to find contacts. I normally go the agency route as its quicker and more dependable, and doesnt require me to actually do any of the sourcing myself. You can google to get a list of agencies near you or at your price bracket pretty easily.
     
    Socrates likes this.
  7. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    Just don't! It rarely ends well. Hire someone, maintain full ownership and responsibility.
     
    xVergilx and Socrates like this.
  8. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    I have found my custom asset artists on artstation.

    Just filter on low wage countries and you can find very talent people that are affordable. I got this custom bomb for 100 USD as en example.

     
  9. MadeFromPolygons

    MadeFromPolygons

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    I was going to say "FYI thats pretty overpriced for 100USD" but I notice it has rigged cables so I guess its an okay price :)
     
  10. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    The cables was not included :) you think for a one off it's kind custom model?

    Some artist charge the same for models that they resell. I paid the same for this model that the artist sells to anyone that want it, so not custom in any way

    https://www.artstation.com/artwork/P1gr8
     
  11. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

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    I don't think 100$ for that is expensive.

    Figure professional modeler makes ~$30 an hour. Prop like that may take half a day or more. Depends on many factors.
     
  12. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    I didn't think that either. A super skilled artist can probably pull it of in an hour (i have no idea I'm not an artist) . But 100 USD isn't much for one hour of a super skilled professional.

    From same guy I got this gloves made for also 100 USD
    upload_2019-11-23_20-46-53.png

    From another guy I got this made for 20 USD each

    upload_2019-11-23_20-47-56.png

    upload_2019-11-23_20-48-55.png
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
  13. wheee09

    wheee09

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    Is there an established range for what constitutes the rate for a professional <role>? ie. Modelers, animators, artists, and so on?
     
  14. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

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    http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Freelance#Freelance_Rates

    This is just guidelines ^^^

    Most junior modelers working at large studios seem to start around $30 an hour (that I've heard of). Overseas outsourcing may be cheaper.

    Keep in mind a freelancer must by necessity charge more than for studio work, as they have more expense to cover like health insurance, etc.



    @wheee09
     
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  15. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    I wouldn't do this except with someone I've worked with before and have a foundation of trust.

    Assuming budget is tight, one thing you could potentially consider is a profit share agreement. That way you still retain full ownership and decision making capacity, but your collaborators get a share of the rewards if / when they come in.

    You can also make that dependent on the value of their contributions. For example, have everyone record their contributed hours, and share profits based on each person's proportion of overall contributions.
     
  16. Meltdown

    Meltdown

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    OP is Canadian, not gonna happen :p

    But on a serious note, I'm a developer/programmer, and if I were you, if you have the capital, avoid partnering with people. Hire them outright, pay for the art or whatever, and move on. Finding good partners is very, very hard, and most decent artists or coders or whatever will just want to get paid, not rev share, due to the sheer competitiveness in the game industry. Less than 1% of published games make a profit.

    I've been working on my own racing game project for over 9 years, and I've learnt a few things when it comes to hiring artists...

    You can read it here on my dev blog, Tips for hiring artists in game development
     
  17. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    I thought you had released that long ago? Have you delayed the steam release based on feedback from the windows store or something like that?
     
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  18. Meltdown

    Meltdown

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    I released a premium version of the game on Steam January 2018 with no marketing, and I've released several updates, it sold just over 1000 copies in the nearly 2 years it was on Steam. Unfortunately having so few reviews, a few negative reviews put my game into the 'Mixed' review status which killed off sales. It was 'Positive' for the first few months.

    The focus though has always been to release on mobile, and from what I've learn from Steam, its better to release on desktop as a free to play game, to get more players into multiplayer.

    The game has just had a complete menu/UI overhaul, soon to be released, which will tie into the F2P desktop and mobile release. The game also had a big 1.5 update a few months ago, which was a complete overhaul of the race track/environment art.

    So literally I'm releasing v2.0 of the game on mobile, when in hindsight I should have just released 1.0 on mobile too :(
     
    Martin_H likes this.
  19. wheee09

    wheee09

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    Great, thanks for that blog, I will definitely check it out.

    I'm hoping your 9 year project was a side project... You said that you launched it in Jan 2018 with no marketing - was there any reason why you didn't market it?
     
    Meltdown likes this.
  20. wheee09

    wheee09

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    Awesome, thanks for that link!
     
  21. Meltdown

    Meltdown

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    Yes, it was a side project, but I had stints of doing it full time for a couple of months at a time. My main marketing push was going to always be when the game released on mobile. Even though I've paid for a PR Agency, I wanted it to be on as many platforms as possible.

    I'm releasing version 2 of the game, as a free to play desktop game, same as the mobile version, and will do all the marketing around that, and I hope enough players will download the game to give multiplayer some good momentum.
     
  22. JohnnyA

    JohnnyA

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    If you can cover the costs then that's the best option, but if not rather than partner, set up a revenue or (preferably) profit share agreement. This way you keep ownership , you are still the boss, and it can't affect any of your other activities.

    Its important to have clear processes and rules defined to protect against abandonment and delinquency:
    • in particular how ownership of assets transfers to your/your company;
    • and the effect of these actions on revenue share
    I like to have a buy out clause too, i.e. if things start to break down you can pay a certain amount per hour worked (or per asset, or whatever other metric you prefer) in order to take ownership of all the work done so far.
     
    angrypenguin likes this.