How do you learn & make your game without your idea being stolen or after your idea has been stolen?

I don't know that it's morally wrong. I might have to research some world religions, but I don't think taking someone else's design and making your own improved version of it is a "sin". It's something to be aware of, though, for sure. It's a cautionary tale that says, make sure you're fully capitalizing on whatever you come up. If a lot of people respond to your random idea, invest everything you have in it asap. If you don't someone else will.

 

This is a great thread for me, and for so many people. I was bored with routine programming tasks. I am with OOP for more than decade, and then I started to feel like life is extremely boring being a computer programmer serving client's fulfillment. Nothing creative I could ever accomplish of my own in this life, although I desperately wanted to create something innovative. But things wasn't turning out as I was expecting.

And at the point where I was about to quit programming permanently I accidentally got hold of Unity.... Wow..!
Being crazy videogame enthusiast I always dreamed of making COOL (my be not coolest game made ever but at least a cool in an awesome way) game of my own, but just never thought It would happen. Yes I was with flash for long time made few stereotype games into it and happy about it, but thinking of something like AA or AAA experience in 3D I was sure it wasn't my cup of tea. Even I was aware of DirectX programming a bit, I never gave it a try to make 3D game.

But Unity changed this forever, with it's rapid prototyping ability, it actually got me involved for 24*7 for LOOOOONG period of time(say one and half year even after 10 yrs of programming experience) hoping every single day my game is about to be released in next week...! And you know what that is not happened yet. And I got a bit depressed due to first programming challenges I had to conquer, as well as artistic challenges I am still facing... I am a horrible artist. But in all this journey the only good thing happened is I kept working on programming part, carrying depression of wasted my time for so long just learn in depth game-play programming and yet nothing accomplished out of it...and thout of lacking artistic abilities making prototype looks horrible than actually it is. And now I am brought it to finish where only artistic polishing is left.

Now I read so many post about development depression and for N number of reason people left working on their dream game.... and I think good that I didn't left mine in the middle ... unfinished... because of HUGE depressive thoughts. Or I would be with nothing... time(money) efforts wasted. My advice ignore the depression even I went through process almost every day where focus shifted from "end product" to get cracking with the basics. I understood its a part of developers life. Game programming really gave me feeling of being novice after decade. its hole new horizon... fun.

I don't know have put my thought in right words and right context as I am a bit nervous and busy to finish the process to ship my game.. so all I want to say is...

PLS DO NOT STOP. DO NOT QUIT.

 

I highly recommended game maker, it is what got me into the hobby. You can start with drag and drop if you don't code, then when you're ready look at the PDF key to see what the code equivalent is of each drag and drop icon you are familiar with. GM drag and drop is like coding with training wheels. I've made a lot of prototypes with game maker. I even made some really complex stuff.

Today I go between Unity and Game Maker Studio. Right now I'm using Unity to make a Metroidvania type of game. Annnnnd we're back on topic.

 

Not on topic yet...

I never liked the drag and drop thing, but I wasn't invested enough to learn DirectX or OpenGL just to draw 2D sprites and double-buffered picture boxes in Visual Basic wasn't doing it for me, anymore. So, I learned GML. It's pretty much what you would expect... a C-like language with ;'s and {'s. I made some really cool stuff, but that was 10 years ago. I can't believe it was actually 10 years but it was. I even remember you could download a 3D FPS example project that was basically doom and modifying it to be a 3rd person 3D overhead view camera. I always thought people bashing GameMaker had no idea it was just a graphics and audio library with a resource pipeline built in, albeit very slow and inefficient. I programmed a Worms-like grappling hook in that thing, using for loops as a kind of fake raycasting. Memooriiiesss.

Now back.

 

Thanks everyone who responded. It's definitely helped to give me an idea of the state of things.

Thanks for the insights and for understanding and thanks for posting (if you hadn't it seems it would have been just people posting about how ideas aren't worth a damn (still a valid response but just not a very encouraging one.)

Those are basically my feelings from top to bottom encapsulated in a single sentence (and you could even stop at "...making COOL" and it would be just as accurate). I want to make something cool, engaging and exciting that people can really get invested in. I always did, then I stopped wanting to for quite a long time (when I learned how much work is involved), but now I just want to at least make a start.

Thanks so much for posting this. I don't know how far I'll get with it, it generally comes down to what happens with the state of my health etc. but right now I'm really getting focused on learning this stuff.

 

Just to note: There was no legal process when Giana Sisters was pulled. There was no courtcase, there was no lawsuit.

Nintendo asked the creators to stop distributing the game and gave copyright infringement reasons for it. And they did pull the game. But, this never ended up in court so there is no legal stance on whether Giana sisters was within the law or not. The main argument for it being copyright infringement was that the first level was an almost 1-to-1 copy of super mario brothers. So it was not the idea(a platformer with dumb, predictable enemies) that was the problem, but the copying of the layout. If this had ended up in court, it could have gone both ways. If they had altered the first few levels, then there would not have been a problem.(except that Nintendo was/is a rich company and could just have sued them to death even if Nintendo didn't win)

Ideas are not protected by copyright law, but other elements of your game are. The story is(though again the ideas in the story are not. I could write a book about a young wizard going to a wizard school without problem), the art is, the sound is, etc.

And regarding ideas being stolen: Ideas generally only get "stolen" after a successful game has been made. Only after a successful game does an idea have value. Before that the idea might have value to you but it is worthless to everybody else. That is also the reason why game companies don't have "idea men" employed. They have no value. Everybody has ideas. And everybody's ideas are formed by previous experiences. You are not unique and most likely somebody else already thought of the same exact idea. And that person might even be making the exact same game at this very moment without even knowing that you exist.

That said, do not let this discourage you. Having an idea is only a very small part of making a game. The implementation can make the difference between a "good game with a seemingly good idea" and "a bad game with a seemingly bad idea" even though the ideas are the same. The implementation is way more valuable. Even if somebody would steal your idea, his implementation would be different resulting in a different game. Implementations are worth protecting and they are protected by copyright law. So focus on making the game you want without worrying about somebody running off with the idea, because even if somebody did the game would be different. Only you know how your game should look and feel, and somebody copying your idea will not have that knowledge.

 

One thing you can also do is, have one or two people to work with you. I understand you want to protect your game from being theft before it reaches to the audience which clearly means you seriously have awesome concept or just being a paranoid or having blend of both... But solutions is... do not work on that concept. Instead try different but simple concept to understand how team work and entire game development cycle works...!

It will boost your confidence and will give an idea how to roll further. It will put you on a map as game designer / developer. I personally did not went for this path because I had vast programming experience (non game related) as well as Flash+Smartfox server game development background too .. so I knew since beginning I am gonna ship my title anyway. So my patience/moral/bug fixing and learning curve was already matured. Yet I feel if I should have worked on 2-3 quick project even as a collaboration... I would stand taller than right now where I am. Think of this option too as a side by side tasks....

 

A good game is like an orchestra, every single instrument is needed... the idea, the art and aesthetics, the gameplay, sounds, how it all ties together, etc. The idea alone... is only one aspect, you could say the idea is the conductor of the orchestra... but kidnapping him and forcing to lead an group of of, say... angry gangsters, wouldn't achieve the same result... unless he's a damn good conductor, which is very unlikely.

Point is... worry less, focus on your game more.

Also... start small, start small, START SMALL. I started with something simple, a platformer...wish I had STARTED with something smaller, but I'm working as often as I can on my game, and it'll be ready in a few months, will be uploading an update soon.

 

I didn't know that, I'd just assumed it had gone to court and that there was some kind of precedent.

That's something I've used as an excuse not to pursue any kind of creative endeavour for years; that and the idea that it'll just get stolen from me and then I'll just feel even worse, but to be honest I think that's just lack of direction and lack of motivation.

That's the thing, it's extremely valuable to me because it makes me actually want to take part in something in life and it's that that I what I want to protect more than the actual idea itself.

Most people would look at what I'm doing and think something like, well that was out of date ten years ago; and if it could be made into a mainstream game it would probably be a b-grade title but it's valuable to me because it's something I actually feel quite passionate about and something that's actually making me want to get up and do something, and yes, that's something I don't want to loose.

To extend that analogy, I have the music running through my head (it's almost taking over my thoughts) but I don't even know how to read the musical notation yet.

I'm going to make a start on the Unity tutorials.

I'll have to look into that. It could be be pretty essential with me being able to protect my motivation.

 

There is also PlayMaker which is currently on sale. It tends to come up in discussions from time to time and there is even a recently made active thread discussing it. It may be a good alternative for those who want a little more flexibility than GameMaker and don't mind the extra learning curve.

 

Your first post was about being in a depression. You want to not focus on what causes that. It can be an infinite loop that crashes your biological hardware. The best way out of that hole is through creativity. I would have been dead along time ago if it was not for my various arts, performance, dance and impromptu comedy/sarcasm forays. I got into game engine stuff not because I needed cash. I made 250 in an hour and a half last night for the type of work I did before I sunk my teeth into Unity. I got into game engine work because i had alot of spare time, do not party or go to bars any more..been there and done that fronting metal bands in the 80's..and it was a cross discipline of science, arts, math and computers.. So I sent myself to University with Unity and have spent countless hours immersed in it instead of thinking about the bad blows in life I have been dealt. I suggest you do the same and you won't have the time to focus on your depression.

 

The thing is I feel like I should be learning how to code. I just feel like Unity is the way to go, but having said that I've barely looked into this stuff.

I've experienced that. It's not just self-perpetuating but also has an intensifying feedback effect that can actually lead to "catastrophic failure" (I've been there).

I used to sing and I've tried my hand at a bit of acting but I don't really fit in with the whole "entertainer" scene/mindset. I used to write poetry and took writing at University but then figured I really had nothing to say that could really be of any use to anybody and came to the conclusion that the world has all of the writers and artists it needs and so I didn't have to subject myself to the uphill slog of trying to be something in the world etc. etc. but this is something that's actually pulling me to it rather than something I have to continually try and force myself to do. I really do just want something worth doing to engage with and to sink myself into and I think this might be it.

 

You should not let that thought stop you. It doesn't matter if somebody else is working on something similar. If that actually mattered, then we wouldn't have had new games in the last 30 years.

But that is the point. It might be extremely valuable to you, but to another person the idea is worthless so he has no reason to steal it. Stop caring about what other people might do, and just do what you want to do. You want to make a game? Then make a game!(do keep everything legal of course. Want to kill a guy? then don't do that because that is illegal and immoral).

Copyright is implicit in almost all countries in the world. Meaning that you don't have to do anything to be protected.


It really reads like you are stuck in a defeatist cycle. Meaning you are shooting down your own arguments with made-up counterarguments or thinking about issues that might arise in the future. This is of course a common theme with certain kind of depressions, so it is not strange that you have that, but you have to break through it else you will be stuck in it forever. Sadly I do not know how to get you to start, the only advice I can give you is to actually start. Download unity. Open it up. Do a tutorial. Do one of the example projects on the unity site. Start writing down your idea. Talk to other people close to you about the idea(as long as they give honest feedback) and take their feedback to heart. Flesh it out on paper. Make mock paper playtests. Have other people also play that paper mock. etc. There is a lot you can do even without knowing anything about making computer games and it all will help.

The best advice I can give here is just "Stop thinking about what might happen, and just start!"

 

I guess so, it's just a little complicated. I found this:

The article seems to summarise things pretty neatly.

I have made a start. I'm downloading a tutorial but it's crashed / not responding.

Also, I've got a copy of Challenges for Game Designers I've been meaning to take a look at so it might help me to paper test it.

Just got to figure out this crash problem.

Edit: also, yes, the depression's pretty harsh. It's just one of those things. If I could get rid of it I wouldn't have it. Sounds like a truism, I know.

 

Since ideas have no value, let's hear everybody's current and next game ideas. Concept art and any research is greatly appreciated. A working demo would be fab, kthxbye.

 

Lol

 

PlayMaker is still essentially coding, but rather than typing out lines of text you're combining nodes. You can also create your own custom nodes using Unity's languages.

Nothing wrong with going the route of coding though. I simply wanted to mention it as an alternative route to GameMaker that allows you to still maintain the power of Unity.

 

Oh okay, I thought it was just drag & drop and all proprietary etc. I'll take a look at it. Thanks, I'm really new to this stuff.

 

I didn't really most of the thread, but usually, what makes a good game is not really the idea, but the execution.

 

Game ideas have no real value to anyone else until they are acted upon and prove themselves worthy of being copied. That doesn't mean, as Centigrade has pointed out, and as many of us have already said, that the idea isn't valuable to us personally.

Our ideas are very valuable to us, otherwise there would be no point in pursuing them. In addition to making games I also write and produce music, write science fiction and horror stories, and paint. I've found in the past that telling someone my idea (especially for a written story for some reason) before I actually make that idea happen is death to the idea. By putting it out into the world before it's ready, it loses some of its power.

The best thing to do, in my opinion, with an idea I have, is to hold it in, only discuss it if absolutely necessary, and when it's ready to be revealed as a completed (or almost completed) thing, only then should it be revealed. That's just me though, and that's what I've found works for me. But what that also means is that other people's ideas are just not special to me. I have my own. So I'm not going to go around stealing someone else's idea because why would I? It means nothing to me. The power of an idea lies in the person who holds it and does something with it.

So I hold my position that someone else's game idea has no value to me as a developer, unless that idea has been made use of and proves to be awesome, and in that case sure, it may inspire me, but I'm still not going to make their exact idea.

There's no reason to fear theft of an idea. There is reason, however, to fear the loss of power of an idea by putting it out there before it's ready.

I don't think anyone here has said that their own personal ideas have no value. The original question was about whether the poster's idea would be stolen. The answer was a resounding no, because that's pretty much the truth. If the poster had asked everyone to share their own ideas, that would have been a different thread.

 

I hear this often, yet it rings a little hollow for me. It seems to suggest that any idea could be turned into a good game. I have doubts about that.

 

I think you missed the "usually" in my post.

Most ideas can be made into a good game. Even the most cliched idea, or most boring idea, with the right execution and polish can become something notable.

 

You would be surprised how many people have the same great idea. No matter how original your idea might be, there are probably at least a dozen people who have the same idea. So don't worry about it. Have fun, enjoy making your game, and even if someone else has the same exact idea, yours will be different because you will make it differently than anyone else.

I don't release a lot of info about our game here on the Unity forums but mostly because as Ony says, it loses a little bit of its power if you release it too early. I want to have something to show before I start talking too much. I do have a blog with a small following, but those are my special people.

 

Ok, there's this plumber, right? And he's Italian. He wants to rescue a princess who's never where he thinks she is. On the way, he jumps on the heads of turtles and weird creatures, and jumps over holes. Sometimes he goes down into giant pipes. He also gets gold coins and mushrooms.

There's a yellow circle, and it eats pills in a maze. Ghosts chase it.

There's a naked blue hedgehog who runs really, really fast, and has to collect gold rings and rescue animals.

 

In the first place, you should start out making large numbers of tiny games anyway. A tiny game would get released too quickly for someone to steal it effectively, and the ideas involved are usually very tame.
By the time you're actually ready to make a game large enough to be concerned about theft, you shouldn't even need to get help on large swaths of the development process. Certainly not early on.

Either way though, as others said I can't imagine there's much risk of theft in the first place.
When theft does occur, it's often in the form of cloning a game that already has demonstrated success.
Just don't make a bunch of the actual files available to others.

 

I don't mean how you're saying it, you said usually. I mean in general, the mantra "ideas don't matter, execution does" rings hollow. Of course, execution matters more, but the statement is hyperbole. And it's another one of those things "everybody knows"... Which should be your first hint.

 

And these tiny games could be generic ideas you find all over, clones, etc. Some formulas (like flappy bird) are simple to do. Making a Pokemon type monster catcher game is a better quality idea, but probably you won't be able to finish. Coming up with random ideas, as a third option, can be detrimental to your progress. Of all the ideas you have, only a small number will be possible to turn into a fun game.

So, there you have it. You can't make a game without an idea. Pretty important for something worthless.

 

I think, as an exercise, everyone who believes strongly in either side of the argument should sit down and write a paragraph summing up the key arguments for the opposing viewpoint.

 

To go into more detail, I'd say it depends on what kind of "idea" we're talking about.
Let's take Minecraft for example, and say that it hasn't been made yet in this scenario.
If Notch went out seeking advice and said something like "I'm working on a sandbox game with fully destructible terrain focused on building random crap out of blocks", people wouldn't give a crap. It might even sound ridiculous or outright stupid.
But if he said something more along the lines of "I'm building a sandbox game focused on building anything using found materials in the world, in which everything is formed of voxels. The voxels are formed using *insert method and string of code here*, so anything in the world can be manipulated or destroyed, and entire worlds can be generated procedurally."
That might lead to some problems. But even if they copied the system of a procedurally generated world formed of voxels, they'd still likely fail to capture the more specific elements that make Minecraft popular. This has already been demonstrated in all the Minecraft clones that followed after its release. And those people had the whole of the game to dissect before deciding on how to clone it.

 

Probably relevant to mention Markus cloned another game with Minecraft.

 

I like how you are intentionally missing the point.

 

Really, as I think about it... quite a few successful games are clones, or directly inspired by another, lesser known but similar games. Execution matters, but marketing, branding, positioning matter more, still. You can sell a turd if you do it right, or you can sell an indie title that's a proven little performer. So that's why I look at throwing your complete or almost complete life's work out there to be risky business unless you're ready to compete within the market.

The worse case scenario is that people think you imitated the game that imitated you. :0

 

No, it's not.

 

What kind of advice are you seeking? Most of the 1,000 new apps EVERY DAY are copies, and an idea, by itself, is worthless. Which brings us to:

A sadder thing is a new comer who attempts a project that's much too big! Then, because it's "a labour of love", and the Sunk Cost Fallacy, they stick with it in a perpetual state of 'making progress', before eventually quitting in despair. Seen it. Read the 'farewells'. It's far more sad than a stolen idea.

Given that ideas are barely 1% of the effort - your idea is almost certainly TOO BIG for you. Consider writing down your idea in a nice notebook. Give it proper respect as an idea that you might one day explore, and then, pull out a new piece of paper, and design a TRIVIALLY simple idea with boxes and circles. Build that.

"Finishing is a feature. A really important feature. Your product must have it." - Joel Spolsky.

What is even more sad is that you came here looking for confirmation of what you already wanted to do. I'm pretty sure you won't heed this advice, just as I am sure that Confirmation Bias is a real thing. Fortunately, I'm writing this for those in our community who are sitting on the fence. And yes, they know who they are.

Gigi

 

An idea, all by itself... that makes more sense. That would be pretty much nothing.

 

If I could like your post twice I would certainly do so.

 

Confirmation Bias is a thing. And he's deep, deep down a rabbit hole from which he may never return. Given that he was already struggling with depression, I suspect this will end badly.

Gigi

 

Take your own advice. Your "IDEA" is too big for you. Set it aside, and build something trivial. Allow yourself to know the pride that comes from being able to proclaim to the world, "I built this!" Never mind the warts, the zero downloads, or the bad design, releasing ANY product is still a massive accomplishment that few achieve.

PS - To counter depression, speed matters. So, allow no more than 4 weeks - idea to release! No matter how trivial the idea, releasing a product a month gives you the thrill of accomplishment without the deep ego-attachment that comes from prolonged development. It's an effective counter-attack against the ever looming specter of depression.

Gigi

 

Ultimately these are all just personal perceptions. I agree, people will see what they want to see and everyone's going to have a point of view.

 

No . Quality matters. If you cannot bear to look at the crap you created after then there is more depression. What works for you is not the be all and end all. Get down off your pedestal. 4 weeks? I have spent 3 months on one painting doing 40 to 50- layers of excruciatingly thin oils. I have spent six months building a record holding sculpture. i have spent five years developing and learning instruments to be able to compose a rock opera. I have folders full of crap i never revisit I created in less than four weeks. I did not impress myself nor live up to my personal standards. Those personal standards got me work that was record holding like the largest art install at the 96 Olympics at 167 feet tall and 175 tons, the largest freestanding landmark statue in the southeast US at 65 feet tall and 93 tons with 10 tons of pure copper cladding it. These works I am proud of took time and will be honored well after I die. To be a producer of dreck and take no time to hone your craft with projects that are self derived and yet above the current level of abilities is no way to get out of a dead end loop. You gotta prove yourself to yourself. Not to some internet know it all and their supposedly cogent advice.

 

But aren't you being a know-it-all by calling someone else a know-it-all?

Slippery slopes...

 

If you really are passionate about creating this game but worried about it being stolen (so much so that it would cause your depression to get worse) my advice would be don't make it.

Start with just getting used to unity (or you choice of game engine), then once you understand the basics of game development, make a game that is similar (an existing game) to the game you want to create, which will then teach you how to build your game.

 

To be honest I think Gigiwoo is just trying to be deliberately antagonistic and I'm happy for ippdev to take him to task about his attitude.

Ultimately we're all different people doing what we do in different ways for different reasons.

To be honest, all things being equal my situation couldn't get too much worse. All this can do is improve things for me, especially if it's going to help me to learn a programming language as a by-product of the effort.

 

Dude. I had agents want to make me famous. I cringed. I do not want to be that asshole on the page of the magazines I see at the grocery checkout. When fame knocked on my door I went in the other direction immediately., That was not why I did or do what i do. I do not want to hang out with the hideously grinning celebrities. i could give a crap about all the women. i was married and divorced twice and know the reality of it. Focus on yourself and what you want to do. If you do quality work, no matter how long it takes to apprentice and then master each discipline, you will feel a spiritual uplifting that no pat on the back or selling a million copies of dreck can come close to. You can then sit back and admire your personal creation and say. "I did that."

 

This is what I love about forum threads like this. Someone asks a question, supposedly seeking the advice of experienced people who can give actual insight into the issue as opposed to guesses. When they don't get the answer they wanted that matches their inexperienced viewpoint, they just assume everyone who disagrees is deliberately being mean to them. It's fascinating, really.

You asked a question. You got the answer, multiple times over. You don't like the answer. Why ask then? Go make your game. You're just wasting time. You know it. We know it. This thread is going nowhere.

 

Thanks, I've been in similar positions and for me the one thing I learned from all of it was that I'm just not that kind of person and just don't really want to be part of that kind of lifestyle. I can understand what you mean entirely. If it's not for you it's not for you.

 

Gigi gives this same advice to many people, because many people do nothing but argue endlessly and talk and dream about doing something, but do nothing. Or start something, but never finish. Over and over, the same thing. Day in, day out. You're not the only guy in your position. I was depressed when I was 19, I started new games all the time and only finished 1 ever. It was fun starting them, but the one I finished people liked it and it makes me happy to this very day to think about it.

So as someone who was stupendously depressed, the cure is doing stuff that gives you a sense that you did something worth doing as often as possible, I find I need daily accomplishments or the depression comes right back. A looming spectre is a damn fine analogy.

So, that's wassup.

 

Nope. No slippery slopes.

 

You sir, are a master of your craft, as demonstrated by some very impressive accomplishments. If Ericsson's research is right, then it's likely that you started out MANY years ago, with small artistic endeavors. He might argue that your hundreds (thousands?) of unfinished assets plus the hundreds (thousands?) of assets you did finish are all part of a long journey of deliberate practice that has led you to excellence.

The 'start small' advice is not for experts, like you. It is for new comers, who having spent all day playing WoW, LoL, or Minecraft, come here asking for guidance. To them, I suggest that while toiling in darkness for 3+ years is a form of deliberate practice, it is also a path that is infinitely harder than it has to be.

Gigi

 

I'll be completely honest with you, I think you've consistently misinterpreted almost everything I've written in this thread throughout. I honestly don't think you could be more mistaken. So much so that I find it difficult to even know where to begin in formulating a response to you. I'm not trying to be argumentative I'm just being honest with you.

I agree with gigiwoo when he says that people see what they want to see but I don't think that he's any different in that respect and I think that's plainly shown by a close reading of this thread. And yes I do think he's being deliberately antagonistic, either that or trying to turn it into some kind of narcissistic p*****g contest.