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How do you get through hard times and tedious work?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Farelle, Nov 27, 2015.

  1. Farelle

    Farelle

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    I found myself wondering, why it is, that I find so often contradicting information about it what one should do as a newbie game developer and what is helping with the emotional/mental state of mind, while doing so.
    While as a game dev it seems to be adviced (specially as beginner) to put out your project as soon as possible, make it visible to others, for playtesting and to get a feeling for publishing and/or how feedback works etc.
    But contrary to that I'm reading to keep a sane mind and to not fall into a deep depression, one should NOT post WIPs, because they tend to be unpolished and not well received from most (and maybe even missunderstood) aswell as not going to talk about it that you are working on a project, not even to those close to you.

    And what are you REALLY doing to help yourself?

    For myself, the things that keep me balanced somehow, seems to be to talk to friends about how I feel (they are usually very supportive and brutally honest, which got me unstuck many times), play with my child, watching youtube videos (that are not related to game development) and most recently I started writing such situations into my blog, which while writing were opening up insights about myself, which helped to overcome the anxiety and self bashing (which is why quite many negative seeming posts are turning into positive reinforcement towards the ending)

    But those things don't help me to overcome my anxiety of "starting" something. I know that the moment I'm inside the work, I don't have problems sitting for hours there, rolling through code, fixing things etc. But the start! the start is like hell, it could be days, maybe even weeks passing when I start to work on a difficult problem, all the time pushing it further into the future, trying to avoid it, but at the same time constantly thinking about it, which occupies my whole mind (and every day) I'm barely capable of functioning in that state and I know the only way to "solve" it is starting to do it...

    how do others overcome this barrier of starting?
     
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  2. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    Sometimes people just need to get angry in order to get things done.

    It is the best to do the the most complex and the most hated tasks first (assuming their priorties are equal to other tasks). Because if there's complex problem on horizon, you won't run away from it. The problem will be there, waiting for you, and the only option is to fix it. If you can't fix it yourself, get help from someone else.

    Now, regarding motivation. When you're afraid to start something, it is worth remembering, that you have basically two options: do it, or regret not doing it for the rest of your life. So, starting it is obviously the best choice.

    Now, keep in mind that this kind of approach uses negative emotions as motivating force, so it is not for everybody.
     
  3. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    Just build something and publish it. Do it as quick as you can. Finishing a project and getting it out there is important. Its the best way to realize that by and large, the world does not actually care about your work. Its an incredibly worthwhile and valuable exercise.

    Then you can shift your focus from worrying about bad feed back to the more useful pursuit of worrying how to get people to even know you exist.

    This is a good question. What are you doing? You need a thick skin to play in this game. If you suffer from anxiety. If you can't get started because you think you might fail. If you cry at night because some stranger on the internet doesn't like your game. Well, these are all good signs that game development might not be the best choice for you.

    You'll need to work on your own mental resiliency to become successful. So just go do it.
     
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  4. Farelle

    Farelle

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    @BoredMormon I can see your points regarding bringing it out as soon as possible.

    would be nice you would answer the question though :) Yeah I have problems with anxiety, but at the same time I think I do have a thick skin when it comes to doing what I love. I didn't specifically mention why I'm having problems with starting, since there is some very personal stuff involved in it also, that has not so much to do with game development itself, but I'm working on it, so I thought to get some input from outside what I can think of.

    so how to work on my own mental resiliency as you put it? :)
     
  5. Master-Frog

    Master-Frog

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    Here is what will happen:

    1) There are no guarantees that you will succeed.
    2) You will find that your talent has limitations.
    3) You will create bad games, no matter what you do--it will happen.
    4) You will receive tons of contradictory advice from self-proclaimed experts.
    5) You will realize that you have no idea what game you're even trying to make.
    6) You will realize the game you're making is nothing like you imagined in your head.
    7) You will realize that there are edge cases in gameplay and logic that can destroy the entire game concept if a player discovers one.
    8) You will have bugs.
    9) You will stop having fun and realize this is actual work, and feel a strong desire to start on another game in hopes it will be better (it won't).
    10) You will finish your game, if you don't quit, if you put in the time and study the craft (and you aren't just building some soulless money-grubbing mobile game) and it will be one of the most satisfying experiences of your life.

    You're no different than anyone else. We all have the same roadblocks to face. The only difference is how you mentally deal with the challenges. It's not easy and you should drop the expectation that it will ever be easy. It is hard work, and no magic advice or shift in perspective can change that.
     
  6. Aiursrage2k

    Aiursrage2k

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    You need to have a game you like making even if no one else likes it
     
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  7. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    I did have a lot of performance anxiety in the old days, I avoided finishing things because of fear, some irrational horrid conditioning from childhood no doubt.

    But you seem to have an irrational fear of starting! Never fear, it's not a commitment. It's an adventure.
     
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  8. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    Just start. Games are made up of a ton of parts. Even if you don't have it all planned/thought out, there is always something to do, start with the known. Progress leads to progress.
     
  9. ensiferum888

    ensiferum888

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    Oh god, this is so true. Especially considering that my game started as a test on creating procedural quads to lay down roads on a grid. And then I just kept adding stuff to it. Of course I had a vision and something I thought was extremely clear in my head.

    But it turns out that what's in your head is something that even you (the actual owner of the said head) don't understand or fully grasp.

    Of course after a while you realize it, accept it, and start defining bounds and a direction to take. But I can see how some people feel the gigantic wave of Oh damn, it won't be what I thought it would and then give up. Don't, sure your game won't turn up the way you thought it would but it can still be great.

    And I really believe this is what can make a great game developer. The ability to make the most out of constraints, not only in terms of poly-count or memory usage, but actual design constraints. And this is what I'm just starting to learn.
     
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  10. Farelle

    Farelle

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    maybe it IS related to finishing also, since finishing would mean that people could start to have expectations of what I should do or have to deliver, as long as I'm a no one, no one would care, literally.

    and heck, it's scary to even start a post here on the forums, because it already scratches that "not being known" alot.
     
  11. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Too late. The Unity forums only have a deep end and you're swimming fine.

    But regarding the fear of being judged, I think that comes with any creative thing really, it's not just games. I guess just showing progress little and often is the best thing? What do you think?
     
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  12. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    Lots of great advice already in this thread. @anselmo.fresquez I think layed out a very accurate account of how things normally go.

    I'll just revisit what @hippocoder and @zombiegorilla said: It is an adventure and just get started asap period and then ramble a bit as usual. ;)

    Once upon a time it was a bit more difficult to get feedback. These days it is quite easy to get it in comparison. So yes the odds are people will express some kind of expectations or question decisions you made and so forth. Even if you don't ask for feedback there are people who will still give it.

    Basically, just take the feedback you find worthwhile and agree with and ignore the rest. You are the one building the game. If you do everything other people are saying then it seems to me like you're not really building your game anymore and instead would be building their game for them. Right? Not everyone will agree with that but that is how I see it.

    And you don't need to answer to anyone about things you add to your game or things you have not included in your game. So don't feel like you should "hide" to avoid that kind of stuff.

    Also @BoredMormon did a great job in pointing out that where you are right now your biggest concern is how people will perceive your work. And in reality you'll find that for the most part people simply don't care one way or the other. You have to work to be seen. This is more true with each passing day as more and more games are released.

    TLDR: It is an adventure. You need a starting point and then you can progress from that point so just get started doing something... anything. Your biggest challenge will be in getting your game discovered in the first place. People will give feedback sooner or later whether you ask for it or not. Take what you want and ignore the rest.
     
  13. Farelle

    Farelle

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    yep :) alot of good responses :D
     
  14. ShilohGames

    ShilohGames

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    Generally speaking, you want to show it to other people and get feedback as soon as possible. Build a small prototype and let a few friends play it. Figure out as early as possible whether the core gameplay idea is fun. If it is not, then redesign it and retest. Don't waste time heavily polishing something if you have not proven the core gameplay idea is actually fun first.

    This goes back to the idea of "Fail Quickly". Basically, you want to build a simple prototype to test your idea, and do the testing as early as possible. The prototypes should be just the minimum product needed to show the core gameplay idea, so you can gather feedback and improve your idea.
     
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  15. Glader

    Glader

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    In the words of one of our generation's great wisemen:

    "Do it! Just do it! Don't let your dreams be dreams."
    - Shia Labeouf​
     
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  16. Cryosphere

    Cryosphere

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    Oh darn, I was gonna post that.

    "Yesterday, you said tomorrow!"
    -Shia LaBeouf, a true visionary
    But in all seriousness, his words struck pretty true with people like me who had the time to do stuff, had things they wanted to achieve, but were great at procrastinating.
     
  17. Farelle

    Farelle

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    yeah there is a reason why I put one of his videos on my blog, even though I try to keep content thats not directly related to game developing and myself out of it :)

    one other quote that inspired me alot (and I keep as desktop background) is
    "The scariest moment is always just before you start"
    -Stephen King​

    and then there is:
    "Decide that you want it more than you are afraid of it"
    -Bill Cosby
    don't get me wrong, I always moved forward a little bit and there were always times I managed to start working on things, but I do wish quite often, there would be a way to make it happen more often and more regularly without feeling like I have to break a leg every time to do so :) (thats not meant literally)
    I feel quite often left behind or left out, when I compare myself to others...but then again I don't think I'm a specialist but more of a generalist I do a bit of everything and I don't want it any other way, so it makes it easily seem as if everyone is further along their path than I am on mine.
    I know I shouldn't compare myself to others, but I would like to have people to talk to, people who are interested in learning, exploring new ideas, create worlds for others no matter how big or small.

    In another thread someone asked me why I'm so interested in MMOs or why I would want to make an MMO (specially considering that it's a tough goal) and I think my answer would be: MMOs were the games that struck me, when I was alone and had no idea how to socially interact with others, it was the one way for me to be myself and be social, to find friends and escape my (at that time) not so nice life. I also learned through MMOs that people are judged way more often by their behaviour ingame than by appearances, gender or anything like that. This affected me so much that I could say I want to create some kind of homage to that, want to create a world where others can experience similar kind of feeling.
    Of course there are more reasons for me to make games in general, like a hunger for doing creative things and working with lots of different mediums and games seem to be like the holy grail of mixed media to express yourself creatively :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2015
  18. tedthebug

    tedthebug

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    I try to do 2 intermediary steps before making the game.

    I do a brain dump to get it out of my head so I can look at it a bit more clearly as I'm not holding & moving bits of it around in my head but on paper (mind maps) instead so I can see how it links & work out if it is vaguely functional.

    Next I prototype it using crappy placeholder art & text UI if I need info/feedback to help work stuff out. I don't even bother with sound or particles most of the time. I tweak the prototype till the core mechanics are playable & then I put it out for testing with family & friends to get initial feedback. I don't ask them about it until a day or 2 later but I do watch to see the look on their faces & how they are playing it as they can give me feedback on whether they look like they are getting into it. Occasionally I put the prototype on game jolt so I can see how many people view the page & how many played it. If I could work out how to use the api for more stats I would as that will also show # keystrokes, time spent playing, & how many times they played in that session.

    Giving it to people to play at this stage is scary but means I cut down on time spent making something that ultimately wasn't playable or enjoyable.

    Only after this do I decide whether I actually want to make the game as a whole product to be properly published.
     
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  19. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    Change your goals. Don't try and make a good game. Don't try and make a big game.

    Your goal should be to make and publish a small, crappy game as quickly as possible. Make a game that people won't like. It barely has to be playable. It doesn't have to be original. It just has to be published.

    Give yourself a couple of weeks to do this. And do it.
     
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  20. dogzerx2

    dogzerx2

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    My fear is to start something with the wrong foot, and then having to deal with all the burdensome mistakes from starting in a rush, not being able to commit to what I'm doing, and thinking about starting from the top.

    Not much I can do about it than relax... don't rush it, but don't take too long. Don't make it about a perfect work routine of pristine productivity, make it all about that one task ahead of you.
     
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  21. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    If the shoe is on the other foot and you start with the wrong foot, then it's probably best to put the best foot forward, just in case there's something afoot.
     
  22. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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  23. Farelle

    Farelle

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    thanks BoredMormon :)
     
  24. darkhog

    darkhog

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    Much great info here. Myself? I just force myself through easy but mindnumbing/tedious tasks such as making prefabs out of "part" models and to help myself I've compiled a Spotify playlist. Here it is for anyone interested.
     
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