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Homeless and demon symulator foundrising possible?

Discussion in 'Game Design' started by like_a_bosss, Aug 31, 2015.

  1. like_a_bosss

    like_a_bosss

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    Hi, I have an idea of game where you play a third person RPG where you live a life of a homeless that lost his memory but for some reason sees demons following people. He has a demon following himself as well.The Player would have to do all the things that homeless people do to survive(beg/eat,drink/do drugs/gather and sell stuff,weed planting and many other things). The main character would be without memories(He would be retrieving them from time to time by his interactions with demons) To make the idea reality I would need to find like no less than 55-60k$ the question is if idont have any community and my yt channel is rarely visited. Is is feasible to be sucessfull on indiegogo or should I try with something smaller,cheaper faster in production?
    Here are two videos from something that has been put together. They don't show the gameplay but it's just an overall idea how the world of the game would look like.


    Best regards for all the intrest
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015
  2. El Maxo

    El Maxo

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    First of all, try it whats the worse that can happen.

    Now I would also say that if you are going to kick stater, do your research. Look at other company and how they have presented themselves. Try not to over price your game and set reasonable goals. if your goal is 60K and just looking that looks really high for what you will be delivering, what do you intend to spend that on, your own wages, if so how long do you see yourself making the game for? software, what do you need that you don't have already.
     
  3. like_a_bosss

    like_a_bosss

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    If people think that 60K is already too much, where only the costs of VO would take 11k$ then the project is doomed from start. Production time 14 months. 60K - 23%vat -5% indiegogo fee - 18 % income tax.Even if it looks like developer is getting 60k it's not 60k at least in my country
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015
  4. LaneFox

    LaneFox

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    Until you learn proper grammar, it's safe to assume that it will not be possible.
     
  5. El Maxo

    El Maxo

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    I assume this is one of your first projects that you have done. I would advice not doing kickstarter. I think you might be biting off more than you can chew. 14 months is a long time for a project like this. So I am not sure how long you intend for your game to be. I think 11k for voice acting, which is more than 1/6th (before tax) is a crazy amount to spend on stuff like that.

    My advice would be make a small part of the game now, and make it free, if people like it, make a kickstarter, if they dont. You wont be wasting time.
     
    frosted likes this.
  6. zoran404

    zoran404

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    With so many games competing for customers I doubt you'll be getting 60k.
    If you get 40k you should consider yourself lucky, but even that would require you to have enough already done work to convince people that you are serious about this project.

    If wages of the people you need to hire are big then you will have to resort to lower cost solutions.
    Imo 11k for voice actors is not something an indie team should look for, considering all other costs you have to cover with your small budget.
     
    El Maxo likes this.
  7. El Maxo

    El Maxo

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    I would advice not trying to mock the people trying to give you advice. Releasing a small amount of content for free as a demo isn't a new and bizarre concept.
     
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  8. frosted

    frosted

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    Dude, you want to raise 60 grand on kickstarter?!

    Just take like an hour and look at games that have started with a 60k target (and succeeded). Look at the backgrounds of the teams involved, look at what they had implemented, etc.

    Crowd funding 60k is way, way outside your scope.

    Unless you're well known or very well connected, think of crowd funding as a way to ask friends and family for money. So ask yourself if your friends and family would cough up $60,000 for you.

    @zoran404 -- 40k is not "you should be happy with" -- 40k is wildly outside scope of what a "random dude with a dream" can raise for a game through crowdfunding.
     
  9. Teila

    Teila

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    I also believe he will fail...but the concept is rather original, even if not fleshed out enough. Some folks have to fail themselves in order to believe anything anyone says so you guys are really wasting your time here trying to convince him. Let him try and fail.

    I would suggest he gets on Steam first to give some legitimacy. If he can't get on Steam, then he should wait. But he won't listen to me either. :)
     
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  10. frosted

    frosted

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    The aesthetics are actually sorta novel. It's a nice start to something, and a nice kind of idea (although I don't see how it would work mechanically and be compelling, which is a problem for a first game project).

    There is some promising talent being shown there, but it also looks very rough, like a first project. Getting something like this to the level of polish that people expect (and that a strong aesthetic requires) would probably take a lot of skill honing and time.

    Raising 60+ thousand dollars on kickstarter though is just fantasy (unless your friends and family will put up like $59k). That the author didn't do the homework on how KS works to realize this for himself doesn't speak well of the future of the project.
     
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  11. like_a_bosss

    like_a_bosss

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    All what is shown in these 2 clips are 14 days of work.I created some 2D games and VR games. I was also taking part in projects with budgets over 10 m$ so it's not like I am new to this stuff. People who say that 60k$ for this kind of game is too much are just silly.I haven't asked if asking for 60k is justyfied by estimated costs I asked if it could be possible to rise such amount for somebody without so called " cummunity". The answer from you all is NOT. I am OK with it. Judging from the initial feedback its not worthy my time. 11$ for voice acting seams like a lot but hey there would have been a lot of stoires of homeless people and a lot of interactions with street walking NPCs. I planed to give away 25% from sales(not from the kicstarter though) for homeless+some voice acting would have been done by homeless so they would also got some cash...
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015
  12. Teila

    Teila

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    Good luck to you! If you fail, try again because it is a very original idea and it would be nice to see more of that stuff actually succeed.
     
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  13. frosted

    frosted

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    Fair enough man.

    Here's a rule of thumb - when you think of crowdfunding, think of it like pre-order sales and asking your social network. So lets say that your social network would kick in 5k. Then you need to produce 55k in pre-order sales.

    If your social network would kick in 50k, then you only need to produce 10k in pre-order sales.

    Thinking that people will just donate money randomly is not how these things work in 2015.
     
  14. Teila

    Teila

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    Look carefully at the other games on IndieGoGo. It is hard to get noticed there and it seems the all or nothing campaigns (like Kickstarter) do much better than the flexible accounts. People are just not as willing to donate these days to a project that doesn't prove it is worthy up front. Those days of easy money through crowd funding for games is gone I am afraid. To many big names out there making millions and the expectations are much higher than they were.
     
  15. like_a_bosss

    like_a_bosss

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    Crowdfounding has it's name for a reason.If you spent on the game 50k out of 60k from your own pocket it's not crowdfunding anymore.When comes to high expectations.That kind of project could not rival AAA scope projects like dead space.gta and so on. These kind of expectation would have to meet failure

    by gogo games I ment "adult type of games"
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015
  16. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    It only valuable if you listen. Good grammar costs nothing. Poor grammar casts you as unprofessional and alienates some of your audience.

    It also hinders your ability to program. Programming relys on exact syntax. Aka perfet grammar.

    But back on topic everything I've seen indicates you need a solid community and preferably a basic prototype before you hit crowd funding.
     
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  17. like_a_bosss

    like_a_bosss

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    When comes to grammar and spelling. English is my third language so it would cost just a bit to check if every word and sentance is correct. But its a good point that making simple mistakes certanly can/could cast some shadow on the project if these mistakes has been made on kickstarter/indiegogo website;p How can anyone judge sombody's abilietie to code or to model stuff by his grammar or spelling? I would rather judge that by seeing code or any work done like projects done or portfolio.(With this post I will get probably yelled at once again. ;p)

    Back on Topic.Judging by all posts it's clear there would be a little / next to nothing chanse to get the project founded.Not in these circumstances at least.
    1.Make a demo
    2.Give it away for audiance
    3.Advertise a bit
    3.Get feed back
    4.If people like it they might help to spread the word about the idea of crowdfunding the project
    5.Then campagin and keeping your fingers crossed

    Thank you all for your interest. Your points might have saved me from wasted time and from hitting the wall of disappointment with crowdfunding campaign
    Thank you all for all your points of view!Best regards
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015
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  18. like_a_bosss

    like_a_bosss

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    BTW here is a simple old graph of the systems within HMS game that were counted for the budget of 27k$ (without taxes and without some additional systems that are present in newer bigger and more detailed graph that made that 55-60k with taxes included)
    http://postimg.org/image/rvt4qphv1
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015
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  19. tedthebug

    tedthebug

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    Just for info, & I don't know how indicative I am of the standard kickstarter backer, I don't support anything until there is at least a working demo so I know there is a high likelihood of completion. Once there is a reasonable demo then the mechanics are coded & working so hopefully the $ is for polish, sound & extra content.

    But I agree, the concept is interesting. Good luck
     
    like_a_bosss likes this.
  20. El Maxo

    El Maxo

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    I just want to say, I used to agree with you when it comes down to spelling and grammar. What possible connection can it have with my skill in other areas. As a dyslexic I struggle with spelling a lot. ( made about 4 mistakes so far). But if your selling yourself or your idea it does have a big impact. When first reading through your posts I assumed you are new to the industry or even still in school. So if you used the same quality in your crowd funding campaign, you would defiantly struggle.

    My advice for this is to take a slower approach. Projects that you make will be very passionate things, but when it comes to responding take your time. Always re read through your work, then do it again. I have most likely missed off a few mistakes here but re reading has defiantly helped. Getting someone else to proof read is great help as well, although not everyone has the time or resources to do that.

    Again not trying to dig at you, just trying to help.
     
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  21. ostrich160

    ostrich160

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    A game can be made on $0. Only those who dont know anything about game dev think making games is expensive. No, it can be expensive
     
  22. like_a_bosss

    like_a_bosss

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    . You can make another clone of flappy bird with little costs but it won't be 0$. Unless you don't price your time and electricity. You can even make GTAV with almost no costs. If not counting electricity you could have modeled/animated all that stuff yourself, you could even composed your own music and so on , YES you could do it:) but it would take you like 1000 years, You could also cut out somboy's appendix for little to no costs.It's easy, you just need a knife, some cheap anesthetics like chloroform, some stitches and antibiotics and you are ready to go.If it can be done with 10$ why hospitals charge a bit more?:) There is one thing in life that can not be returned. It's time. You can make a game with little costs but you can not make every game for 1$.
     
  23. CaoMengde777

    CaoMengde777

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    lol when im working on game dev stuff i never consider monetary cost of time.. i guess because my primary objective isnt monetary...
    well i guess i do consider time efficiency

    LOL GTAV has a VAST amount of entirely unnecessary content, and not enough necessary content IMHO
     
  24. ostrich160

    ostrich160

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    Yeh thats a good point. I guess if thats the case though, get a job, and develop in your spare time. I consider it pretty immoral to kickstart a game and use the money to just pay yourself to live
     
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  25. like_a_bosss

    like_a_bosss

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    Are you out of your mind?F***.Where are you comming from, like really. Mentioning electricity was just to show that its impossible to create a game with 0$. even if it's 0.05$ its more then 0, Those who don't count are first to bankrupt and leave development.Did you really think I would use funds to pay my own bills? like a F***ing idiot?
    Gosh, Is there an option to delete the whole threat? I already have enough of these discouraging to do anything posts.

    BTW Ostrich how paying bills and for other costs of development from Kick starter's founds is immoral?First,It's not like you have to back any of the projects up .The Second, What Do you expect developers to spend gathered money on? I guess It better be gogo dances cause it's immoral to paybills,or for any other development costs. Third you treat Crowd funding as a shop, but its not a shop, You should never use crowd funding,cause you don't get the spirit of it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2015
  26. CaoMengde777

    CaoMengde777

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    LOOL you dont know what youre talking about...

    what else is kickstarter money for? .. to hire people to 3d model, code, etc ..
    well, the hired people are living off kickstarter money....

    yea.. i guess for start-up funding for required material goods, tooling etc,
    but how many kickstarters is to hire people?
     
  27. ostrich160

    ostrich160

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    Yes but you dont hire yourself. I work full time to pay for myself to live and make games in my spare time. Im fairly sure if I contacted a professional 3d modeller and said 'listen you work on my game but make sure to get a job so you can pay for yourself to live because Im not gonna do that'. Kickstarter is being seen less and less everyday as a last resort for developers, and developers are becoming more and more happy to take peoples money to do whatever they want with. Maybe Im stuck with an old mindset, but I prefer the idea of people paying me and getting a product, and when thats not possible for me to do, because the project is too big, then I use kickstarter because I NEED other people.

    So yeh mate, I think I do know what Im talking about. Thanks for asking.

    I dont even know what this first paragraph is. Half of it was you saying 'Electricity does cost money!!!' which I...agreed with. So, good job there mate.
    The second part was saying you wont use the kickstarter funds to pay for yourself to live, I think.

    Its immoral because I dont like the idea of taking peoples money unless you absolutely have to. If you can use your own spare time to generate that money, I think you should. As soon as you start thinking your money is more important than other peoples, you've gone too far for me. You can use the money to hire those you need to, pay for assets, and if and only if you are working with a team, use the money to pay for yourself to live. If thats the only way it would work, fine. But if its a one man project, avoid kickstarter is my opinion.


    Also would you all calm down a bit.
     
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  28. CaoMengde777

    CaoMengde777

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    kickstarters hire you to make a product.. youre propositioning to them to be hired by them... its their decision

    but yeah .. i probably would never even use kickstarter anyway..
    and yeah theres alot of kickstarters you see and its obvious "WTF!! they dont need peoples money!! this some buuullshiii!!"
     
  29. like_a_bosss

    like_a_bosss

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    You should write books about morality. XD
    1.You should not eat unless you have to because its immoral to do so unless your are really malnutritioned
    2.You should not drink unless you have to. Its immoral to do so when there are shortages in water supplies somwhere in the world.
    3.Its immoral to take any money in advance cause it's highly immoral because I say so
    4.You should not pay your coworkers unless they they don't will to work for 14 months for free.If you decide to pay them which is highly immoral, you should check on daily basis their malnutrition level to not overdose with food and water- but remember humans can survive 4 days without water and a month without food so count your portions rationally
    5.its immoral to pay bills unless you really have to. You should gather all your team members and keep them in lock up in one place, this will lower the price of heating during cold months.Remember its immoral to open windows in winter as well as leaving your ventilation pipes opened unless your coworkers turns blue due to CO2 poisoning.
    6.You should not buy any assets unless you have to!!!, If your team can make all needed assets in 4 years without spending. Do it!
    7. Its immoral to let your team work during days.The electricity can be cheaper at nights.
    8.Its immoral to ask for any money it the product is not in 95% finished state, unless that game is about subject I like,like porn or something similar
    9.It's highly immoral to ask for money if you are going to sleep during the time of project.Remember time equals money so don't plan to sleep unless you really have to. You are allowed to take short naps.Remember you can work without sleep for 5 days.Use caffeine and treat is as your best friend during the project
    10.To lower the costs of production hire unhireable Geeks willing to spend their time without any gratifications, sell them an idea about open source and helping humanity to reach singularity (whatever it means).


    This post is a joke but it would be nice if other people added next points ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2015
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  30. CaoMengde777

    CaoMengde777

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    technically That is true... its enforced by weight gain
    tldr got stupid quick
     
  31. ostrich160

    ostrich160

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    Well no thats just being pedantic. Your taking things to the extreme to prove a point, which doesnt really work.
     
  32. like_a_bosss

    like_a_bosss

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    said it was a joke ;p
     
  33. BornGodsGame

    BornGodsGame

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    You should be able to do most of the work yourself, that is the entire point of being an Indy Developer. If you need a large amount of money to just get your project started, then I agree with the ´immoral´ statement. What happens when anyone who wakes up with an ´idea´ does a Kickstarter in order to hire people to make their game for them. Also, stuff like VO can be bought very late in the process.

    Crowdfunding only works if you have a history in the industry, or if you have an almost finished project that is going to use the KS money for finishing touches. Going to KS without any history and with no gameplay doesn´t work anymore... People are not going to fund you.
     
  34. like_a_bosss

    like_a_bosss

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    Carve_Online sure, and thats why the project has been canceled for now
     
  35. Teila

    Teila

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    One thing you could do is go work on another game, not your own, but with someone else. Many indies need folks to help them and while not all will pay, you would get valuable experience without having to expend money. It won't help with your living expenses though, unfortunately. But you could do it part time while you work and earn money. That way, when you decide to fundraise, you will have your name behind a finished product. :)
     
  36. like_a_bosss

    like_a_bosss

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    since time when the first post in this thread was written I have already started and finished another game:) a quick and simple one but very controversial, I'll see if it gets on steam;) If I have time,I'll make video and post it right here. when comes to "Homeless and demon symulator" I could fund it myself from my own savings but 50k+my 14 months of work is just a bit too much for me to risk
     
  37. BornGodsGame

    BornGodsGame

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    I have no idea where the 50k number would go. But really you are basically arguing against mostly people who are in the exact same situation. Using little money, devoting out own time and ´dreaming´ of how easier things would be if we had $50k to hire people to help us. I would guess that more than 75% of the people posting on these forums are in the same situation as you.

    The solution is the same for you as all of us. Just do the work yourself in your spare time, get the game to a state where it can be showcased, and THEN maybe go to KS to get the funding to finish it faster or add the bells and whistles like voice acting. In other words, welcome to being an indy developer, join the crowd, we are pleased to welcome you.
     
  38. like_a_bosss

    like_a_bosss

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    ON and ON like a broken record,said the project is put on hold, What more to be siad? Gosh,some people must be disconected from reallity.The simple qestion has been already answered, Sombody said"you should not mock the people trying to give you an advice"Thats true unless these advices ain't advices anymore but judgmental opinions that has nothing to do with any kind of solutions, or constructive ideas .

    I asked if rising 50k+$ could be done,some may well Ask why climb the highest mountain?Why, 96 years ago, fly the Atlantic? Why does Rice play Texas? I asked not because it would be easy,but because it would be hard
     
  39. theANMATOR2b

    theANMATOR2b

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    bosss - maybe consider freelancing as a music video producer.
    I thought the trailers worked very well for a Tool or Corn type music video, Not so well for a game concept.

    Maybe you can generate some development income by creating music videos, - similar to how others on here (and me) have full time jobs that pay for all our living expenses plus our indie adventures.
     
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  40. like_a_bosss

    like_a_bosss

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    some time ago I made some visualizacion for music,simple 4 days project
     
  41. like_a_bosss

    like_a_bosss

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