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Hi - I have a question . .

Discussion in 'Game Design' started by jbb1979, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. jbb1979

    jbb1979

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    I have some ideas for a few games, one is called 'To the Metal ', it's racing game . . And, I want player to experience certain things, like great speed, Hard traffic - -

    My point is this, when creating a game, should one start by saying, I want to create a racing game or, should one start saying I want to make game about a story idea and, then change the game fit the Story - content . .?

    What comes first, game-play or, game- story - -
     
  2. Lurking-Ninja

    Lurking-Ninja

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    IMHO: Depends on where your game brings something new to the table. If you have a new mechanic, then game-play first and you bend your story around it. If your game is story-heavy and you can pull it off, then you can put the story first and put the game-play in it. People nowadays even play games which contain hardly any game (QT-events infested linear movie-plays). I don't encourage it, but you can do it.

    But don't you make a game about Heaven and Hell too? Because you need to stick to one idea at a time.
     
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  3. jbb1979

    jbb1979

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    Yes, I make First game, Just Another idea - - I need to learn Good unity so, I can make games . .

    What I mean is, I want to make a game where main character is monk and, maybe it's a FBI profiler, who gets dragged back into work - - I'm deeply inspired by look, of Manhunter movie But, also Hannibal Lecter movies, they're scary but, also good - - I have a very strong idea and, that sort of creates the game-play for me . .

    I guess the question is, should one make a story first or, a game - -
     
  4. TenKHoursDev

    TenKHoursDev

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    HaRdLy AnY gAmE

    :p

    @jbb1979 I would focus on the game development skills. Any story/content you create can be applied to just about any creative endeavor. If you want to make games, practice game development.
     
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  5. Teila

    Teila

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    Personally, I think it is much more difficult to add a story to a mechanic heavy game than to make the mechanics fit the story you have already created. A story gives you frame work. If your story does not involved a battle or conflict, but is instead just pure fun, then you certainly would change the mechanics you put in the game.

    I am biased as I started out as a writer for an indie company. But even now, I find that we can more easily keep our mechanics to our original design because the story gives us a foundation. Yes, occasionally someone on the team suggests some really great mechanic that sounds so good! But we have to stop and say..how does this work with the story? Are we just feature creeping?
     
  6. jbb1979

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    Some QTE Heavy Games are classics, Take Until Dawn or, Resident Evil 5 - - But, I agree, in some God of War games it was over - used And, boring - -
     
  7. jbb1979

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    Listen, I don't know if you want this but, I have a great idea for a story, it's a game about Young street-racers, like in Fast and Furious movies but, in their town the sheriff is dirty, so they end up using cars to expose him, this leads to the local judge, who's also dirty and, this leads to district attorney and, ultimate Minister of Justice being involved in a massive cover - up And, scandal - -

    It's called ' To the Metal ' - -<3

    They Bring justice to the people, With their cars And, exhaust pipes - -$

    So, they start a street race, right in front of the sheriff's office, so all the cops, dirty and, innocent level the station and, chase them . . Then the others sneak in and, Get the Dirty documents, That Reveal them - - They Use their Street-tuned cars To get Expose the True Criminals - -
     
  8. Teila

    Teila

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    Pick, one....
    And create your design doc. :)

    Ideas are great, but they do not by themselves make a game.
     
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  9. jbb1979

    jbb1979

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    For me, the story comes first because that dictates what I want the player to experience, the mood, the atmosphere, from there one picks the game elements that best get the player, to experience what one intends, from the story - -

    Usually, I start with a story I like my-self - -$

    When you find some-thing that really matters to you, Deep down, there's a Chance others Will gravitate to it, Too - -
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  10. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

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    I wouldn't bother with story at all unless you wanna invest serious time in learning how to tell selling stories. Yet another robust discipline to tackle. Not that the bar for games is super high or anything, but still you wanna stack advantage in your favor.

    I think it's important to understand diff between story, theme, character, pacing, etc. No gimme answer, just gotta juggle all the factors so you don't do work in wrong order and have to redo things too much or get locked into destructive workflow
     
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  11. jbb1979

    jbb1979

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    I agree pacing is a sub-component to story, yes by also pacing it correct, player can enjoy game better . . But, over-all I think the story sets the pacing, when there's stuff to tell, there's also a pace that best fits, with that . .

    Characters are also important, but I think they serve the story or, message . . So, one starts with a story, an idea and, create characters that fit that idea, so that the story is served and, completed, by ones characters and, people . .

    The theme is quite strange, I don't think one can simply set a theme, as they have no meaning, yes I can set a theme but, that doesn't really work, for the message, it just is ' filler ' . .

    For more, I start with core story or, message . . Then I pick an atmospheric theme and, a story theme . . Which themes best serve the core story . . In a cop-centered game, I might select a theme, from a cop - show, aim to have elements or, ' moods ' from them . . In the end, a Theme is just a super-ficial choice, that hopefully supports the main story . .

    For me, the most important thing for me, is to find something that's important to me and, matters to me . . That makes me want to tell a story about it and, that then means I need to find a form, theme and, structure, for said story . .

    I think the main reasons for telling stories are, wanting to contact other people and, inform them or, entertain them . . I think when one knows what one wants to tell, finding a theme, pacing and, structure becomes much easier . .

    So, the question becomes, what stories does one need to tell, what stories or, concepts are important, to one ?

    So, it boils down to this, do you have something to say, that matters . ..

    The more you have a message you want to convey, the easier it is to do all the rest . . You just pick the components and, structures that best convey your message, your concept . . For me, I want to tell a story about how wars can cause PTSD and, how that can be help, because I have PTSD from bad wars . . I want to share my experiences of getting better and, perhaps start a discussion. A game is a way to convey what I've been through, in an artistic way and, hopefully get people interested . . If they don't, it's good, too ...

    What I mean is, do you have a concept of what you want to achieve ? Is it to tell a quick story and, make some money ?? If that's the case, you don't have a story, you have an intention but, it's not Deep enough . . You may look at what others do and, say I want to do some-thing similar, I want to make a game but, that creates an external definition of your succes, is it similar to what others do and, you won't know what to do your-self . .

    For me, best advice is, find some-thing you like, a story, some books that you find good and, if they're not already a game, you could make them games and, if Copyright is a problem, just create a heavily influenced similar story, with similar characters . . Or, look at your life and, ask yourself, is there any-thing in it that I want to talk about or, explore, maybe in a game . . Now you have a basis, for a story . . The question we're trying to answer is, where do stories come from . . They can come from a lot of places, personal experience, romance . .

    My point is, stories won't be original until you base them on something in your own life, Some-thing real . . Your own version of the story, that sets it apart, must come from your own life, some-thing should drive it . .

    The deeper question becomes, where do stories come from ? Can they be furthered or, ' increased ' . ..
     
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  12. jbb1979

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    I've made some ideas, for some Game series and, I've made them mine :

    My first RPG series is called ' Grand Spectacle - The Rise of the Lizard King ' .. The series will be called ' Grand Spectacle 2, 3, 4 . . I've done this because, all people can and, should hope for, in entertainment, is a ' Grand Spectacle ', that's all we can hope for, in the media and, it's the finest . . But, I have better ideas . .

    So, I have set a Scope for the game, from the beginning, the design docs, we want to Create a Grand Spectacle, in my team and, that's all . .

    My point is, few people think through what making a story actually means, setting constraints on it . . Another problem is we have a entertainment industry, that must churn out regular products but, that's difficult to do . . Writing one good story is tough but, writing smash hits every year, is tougher . . I think the answer is, it won't be good until you do it for good, simple reasons, not quick money or, succes . . If your goal is just to get a lot of people to buy something and, get rich and, not really care, it's bad . .

    Today, there's so much pretense and, posturing and, games have become like that, too . . The trick is to stay true, in a sea of Deceit and, manipulation . ..
     
  13. jbb1979

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    I guess the tragedy of our century is, that stories and, movies that should help us, protect us, have become the tools of corporations and, companies, that ultimately care more about the bottom-line and, money . . This has started a shift, in our thinking, that it's okay to be exploitative and, shallow - -

    So, it's a big race to, exploit others and, get rich - -

    And, kids that grow up today don't have a solid moral compass, for what's good or, bad media . . It's a mixed together and, over-whelming - -
     
  14. jbb1979

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    Ultimately, the Quality of your story will, depend on your message . . The Better it is, the Better the game - -$
     
  15. Lurking-Ninja

    Lurking-Ninja

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    Please do not post multiple messages after each other. If you got something to add to your own post later, you can Edit your previous post.
    Screenshot_20190531-092400.png
     
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  16. Antypodish

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    90 post in 3 days, since registration :eek:

    Definitely OP need focus on organization and plan, before anything. Then start actually doing something in Unity, rather posting random thoughts, one after other. Stories are least of anyone concerns and worthless (unless selling them), when using Unity experience is 0.

    Again, I suggest moving your focus on game making and experimenting, than typing constantly walls of text.
     
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  17. jbb1979

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    I under-stand now, I was thinking, if I had to write code it meant I was doing some-thing wrong, but Unity wants me to do that, so I can get the custom game I want . . So, I shouldn't be afraid of code, or see it means I'm a failure . .

    I just thought if I had to write code, it was because I didn't know how to use the program or, it was very advanced ..?

    Thank you, for your many answers ! ! I know under-stand, coding is expected and, I am not Bad at the Unity-program, if I have to start the coding, it's because many ' Components ' aren't pre-made, I have to code them my-self - -

    I honestly thought coding meant I was doing some-thing wrong, like not being able to add keyboard controls to my main character, that it was because I was stupid . . I have been reading tutorial section and, learning code and, Unity fundamentals . . The program is very good but, must use coding, which I don't under-stand but, I will Learn - -

    To-day, Unity tutorials and, no fear of doing coding -- Thanks

    ps. I read what a GameObject is and, I under-stand, it's like a basic reference, to an object, that requires very little memory and, is common to all things, in the game, from streets to, lights . .. So, that's the first thing and, one can add more details to it, like a mesh or, Texture - -
     
  18. BIGTIMEMASTER

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    Whenever you find reluctance to learn a new thing, dive in head first with abandon.

    Sounds like you've got good stories to tell but in game dev organization and planning is paramount. The work becomes complex and will get out of hand if you do not continually exercise the discipline to keep it smart and efficiently organized.

    And remember, the best dev is the one having the most fun. And the only way to fail is to quit.
     
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  19. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    I suggest that you just follow the learn materials and do things rather than talk about things. Otherwise you will only be talking and programming like driving a car is only practical learning, you cannot learn without doing it.
     
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  20. jbb1979

    jbb1979

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    Thank you, I have learnt in a tutorial to make character move and, attach camera, even by Unity specialists . . I hope to copy code to own program and, make a square move, on solid floor - - I'm scared I'll make the wrong code, but I Hope - -
     
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  21. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

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    Making mistakes is sign of forward progress. It's like getting high score in street fighter.
     
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  22. kdgalla

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    Your first several attempts will most-likely be wrong. Just expect it and don't worry about it. It's unreasonable to expect that code will work properly on the first attempt, even for a pro. Realistically you'll spend a lot of time revising and testing the same code over and over.
     
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  23. Ryiah

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    Copying code is far more risky than writing your own as without the experience you would gain from writing your own code you won't be able to solve any complex problems you run into and believe me there is a lot of broken code out there thanks to the game engine constantly updating.

    That said if you just don't want to code the answer is to use a solution like this one as it's being actively supported by a developer that can assist you when you inevitably run into a problem you can't solve.

    https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/templates/systems/game-creator-89443
     
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  24. jbb1979

    jbb1979

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    Thank you . .
     
  25. Teila

    Teila

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    I disagree that stories are a waste of time. You are not going to get advice on story writing here!! Check Amazon for world building or writing narratives for video games...or even screenplays. Write an outline.

    I agree with the people here that you should not be using the Unity forums to stream your consciousness.

    Start a word document and write down all your ideas. Use a sketchbook to draw ideas, make flowcharts, etc.

    Create a small game design doc, which I know some here also think is a waste of time, but it is how you can organize your thoughts. Realize that many people never get as far as even making a game. So making the document can really help. Mine has kept us from straying off into the netherworld and end up with a mess of a game.

    Do not expect to find folks here who are going to agree with either one of us. There is a mindset here...and not all of us fit into the norm. But...PLENTY of folks who have story driven games on the Unity forums. Plenty who write design docs. Just only a few that feel the need to broadcast that.

    That is how forums go. The loudest convince us their way is right.

    Before you do anything, learn Unity. You have no idea what you can really do until you understand the engine and how to make simple games.
     
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  26. jbb1979

    jbb1979

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    This time, I will Learn from the advice Because, You are All smart - - Thank you $
     
  27. jbb1979

    jbb1979

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    For me, there's a great joy in telling a Great story, I often did that at Role-playing Games and, It was awesome But, very Hard - - It took a Lot of work to Create 2 - 4 Hours gaming, some-times 12 - 14 Hours - -

    I wish we could talk about stories here, I love the stories I've come up with and, Can't wait to share them - -

    But, this is a Technical Game Making site, not For Stories - -
     
  28. jbb1979

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    To me, stories are what drives the whole game forward, that you have some-thing Cool And, wonder-ful to tell . . I Really enjoy sharing my stories, I can't stop talking about them and, I would really like to hear other people's stories, so I can help improve them . .

    I had an idea, that we could take one of my ideas and, make a sort of series here, I've been wanting to create an adventure /RPG Series called ' Grand Spectacle ' - -- each one has a sub-name, like ' Grand Spectacle 1 - The Magma-Lord ' . . Grand Spectacle 3 - The High-Chancellors Gambit . . It's one where we could work on an individual one and, the ' Design ' ideology is to make a game, that's a ' grand spectacle', That's all - - I'd like to help people get started and, give advice, because I love stories . .

    Any-way, I guess it's pretty obvious, I Love stories And, can't Get enough . . To me, they form the Motivation And, goal with the entire idea, of Making games - - The Better the story, The More motivating it is to Find ways, of Telling it
     
  29. jbb1979

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    My Point is, you can't really separate the stories from Game development, because they Motivate us And, Compel us to Excel . . The Greater our Goal, The Greater our chance of Completing the game . . And, even if Story isn't all of that, having a Story that one Wants to Hear one-self And, Have put a Lot of attention into, Helps - -
     
  30. Teila

    Teila

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    Okay, but you are just spamming now. lol

    Go do something. Time to unwatch this thread. Let me know when you do something. ;)
     
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  31. jbb1979

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    Any-way, I'd Love to be part of a commune, That Worked on one or, Even several games, in a the ' Grand spectacle ' Story - Universe . . We Could write the stories together and, then individually Create the Games we Feel best Suit it - - I Love talking Nerdy stuff And, Stories - - Then, when we have made beautiful stories And, Mysteries, we Can then Make them into Beautiful games And, Learn Unity, at The time, As well . . Every-body wins, and We have a Great time <3 <3
     
  32. jbb1979

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    The Point is, Coming up with Stories is Great, wonder-ful stuff - - So, I propose we share stories we have, so we can improve each other's stories - - to me, they're the Life-blood of games, so Game devs Can't just ignore them . .$

    If you tell me your story Ideas, I will compliment them and, Praise you . . And, come with Suggestions to Make them Better - -
     
  33. Joe-Censored

    Joe-Censored

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    Not likely to get many takers. Stories written by a committee aren't generally that good, and posting your story on a public forum is the most obvious way to get it stolen.
     
  34. jbb1979

    jbb1979

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    I Don't know, I think we need to be able to talk about stories because, they're sort of the meat and potatoes, of the dish, to me they're central - -

    I think holding once stories to one-self wíll make them worse, because input from others could help . . . To me, the story is a big part of why I even want to make a game, tell other people about it - - With a good story, making a game becomes much easier and, natural .. that's why I think we should talk about them, Their nature

    Implying people will steal your stuff of course bad, if you are scared of that we can use Messages or, even an e-mail - -
     
  35. Antypodish

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    To be honest, I don't care about story writing during/before game dev. You can tell as much you want. But is pointless, untill actually see the game. Minecraft for example has no story and I works fine. Then mods were created and videos, to tell many stories. Bunt not other way round. If I want to read story, I go to relevant books shop, or web page.

    Writing story got same value, as having tons of ideas for your game, without having actually game =0.

    Sure, there are some games with nice story and designed around it. But many games has story as sugar, so next scenes/levels don't feel detached.

    Once the game core is made and functional, any story can be written as "afterthought". That ensures, no unnecessary effort is wasted, on story scripts writing.
     
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  36. AcidArrow

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    If it’s going to be an afterthought, maybe skip the story then?

    Actually, that goes for all elements in a game.
     
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  37. Antypodish

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    Not really. In fact yes. You don't put effort to make your A/AA/AAA quality assets for your game, before you got something actually working. Aren't you? Most likely making cheap fast counterparts / placeholders and replace them when time is right.

    Lets say you want build some rpg. Magic, dragons, swords etc. You know your main theme. Then you can build your core mechanics. Once you know it works, you can focus on expanding toward story. Adding relevant elements. By the time you will know, how much time game dev took and can estimate, how long will adding new feature will take.

    If you start with full blown Lord of The Rings story, and try make game, soon you may realize, you don't have time to implement all major heroes, starting cutting things down. In the end, chances are it wo t loom anything like LoTR. A bit exaggerating here, but see my point :).
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019 at 9:08 AM
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  38. jbb1979

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    It's a good point, I Think - - What Good is having a Story if, You can't tell it, Using The engine - -

    I Do think a Good story can serve as a Motivation for the Developer and, can Bring the Team together, by Working towards Some-thing all Members admire And, want To Do . .. But, it's Not really useful if One can't ' Make it happen ', then it all Stops Dead right there
     
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  39. jbb1979

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    I Do think one Could work on The story and, Embellish that While one is Making the Game, then Doing as Much as one can, a Lot of Fun Can come from having a Nice story . . But, when Making a Game one must dedicated one-self to coding, Programming And, Learn Computer - tech . .. Other-wise, It's all For nothing - -

    Wow, that's Really deep :) :D
     
  40. jbb1979

    jbb1979

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    In the end, all those things will have to be made and, having a killer story one wants to tell can be a good thing, so working on the story is not a bad thing, or even spending days perfecting it, getting it right - - but, in the end one needs Engine mastery and, programming to make it happen, all the cool mechanics, the 3D models, animations, Putting it in the Unity engine

    One can focus so much on the story one forgets, there's much more involved than just coming up with the story, making a game is huge and, it's good to start with small bits, like goals, maybe making a first level, with only a few enemies and, basic camera and, video production . . Then, as one gains experience and, skills, one can expand more and, perhaps develop better code, but you are right, one can easily start making a game without the story, there's a ton of work and, without that, no amount of Good story is gonna work - - similar to working on the car paint details before the engine is really working . .
     
  41. jbb1979

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    I think to make a great game, many things must come together and, it's not just coding, and good game has a strong story, memorable characters, Great settings and, Well-written code - - So, the best coder in the world may only make a mediocre game, if he doesn't have imagination or, other-wise - -

    That's is why, I want to have a place where we can help each other on stories, so they can get better . . In the end, that will give a clearer direction for the game and, what coding elements one needs/ That fit - -

    I think we can help each other not only with code or, tutorials but, also have fun writing stories together and, Realizing them - - By helping create a better story, there's more motivation and, drive to tell it, to power through and, Make the code, Or I think - -
     
  42. jbb1979

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    That's what I want, to empower people with motivation, to Make their game - -

    It's like a cake, you can have code ( the bread ), a design goal ( the frosting ) and, a great story ( the berry - jam ), the more of those things you can see before the cake is done, the more motivating it is to make it and, share it
     
  43. Joe-Censored

    Joe-Censored

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    Why are you adding a new post every 2 minutes? Just edit the previous post if you have more to add.
     
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  44. GazingUp

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    This forum is turning out to be fruitful, despite the spam from OP. This point is the most important point I think a lot of developers such as OP and me face. I had to learn the hard way (I drew out characters and ground assets - only to find the game mechanics I wanted were incredibly hard to work on and all the graphics and colors were just too distracting for me to focus on actual development - this includes story writing) that writing a story - let alone developing/drawing out whole characters - MUST be an afterthought once the gameplay mechanics are solidified and in place. Because if your character can't jump because you don't wanna waste too much time trying to figure out how to make him jump - this takes a heavy damage on your game story if your story involves exploration, and getting up on things.

    So instead, I put up rectangular and square blocks with some simple (but neat) colors and focus on making the movement as fun as possible. This is what Shigeru Miyamoto did for Mario. I can't find it now, but I did read/see an article or a video where he said that Mario was just a simple object (like a dot or pixel?) and the team focused on making his jump and movement as fun as possible before thinking about drawing him out.

    Something to think about.
     
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  45. jbb1979

    jbb1979

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    I just wanted to make clear stories are the life - blood of a game and, they're a big part of the motivation and, fun in making games - - The better the story, the message and, the importance of it, the more motivated one is . ..

    That way, having a story can set the whole tone, for the game, it can give game making a good direction . .

    So, even if it has little to do with coding, having a good story over a bad one can help, one stay motivated during the times, when game dev Is hard - - Having an epic story to tell, or just an overview of content, can make one motivated and, it does another thing . . It tells you what should be in the game, what mechanics, what to omit, because you can ask the question, what things serve the story I want to tell ( action elements, stealth elements for a horror game, dialogue options for detective games, guns and, cop cars for a cop game ), in a sense the story ends up defining what should be there, and also dictates what things should be in cut-scenes and, so forth - -

    So, I think the story is almost the whole design document, for the game, that's what I think, any-way - - So, working on a really good story can be fun and, also rewarding - - in the end, having a good story ready can help make you finish the game, because it's all so much more motivating and, fun - - That's why I think we should talk about stories and, help each other develop them, wherever we can, because in the end, that helps other complete their game and, even if one doesn't succeed, one can make simpler mechanics, that support the story and, find inspiration in ones stories, to finish the game . . And, if all else fails, one had fun and, had a great story lined up, I think - - My Opinion - -$
     
  46. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    It's completely dependent on the game, the developer, and the player. Some of my best experiences are with games that have little to no actual story, and for games based entirely around a story I often find myself working against them rather than trying to enjoy it.

    It's led me to the conclusion that I don't enjoy games focused on a story as much as being able to make my own path.

    Do you see it as just an opinion? Because statements like "I just wanted to make clear stories are the life - blood of a game" leave the opposite impression.
     
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  47. jbb1979

    jbb1979

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    My point was, I wanted to say with a good story, you are all the more motivated, I realize you can make a game without one but, it helps to have one, also because it helps create a design formula, for what features and, content one wants - -

    That's why I think we should also go into story - making and, embellishing because, that helps us have a clearer goal of what we want and, makes it easier to get there, not waste time on things that won't serve the plot or, characters, in the end . . So, I want to make clear, game development is about a lot of things, not just story but, having a good story makes it easier to see what one wants and, make the ' goal ' more clear and, defined . .

    So, I think if we get together and, make stories to help each other, we can do better and, have a greater chance of finishing a game but, at same time, I recognize one doesn't need a story at all, to make a game - -

    I just think they can help, in the end, taking the fun time to make a nice story, can help one get through rough parts of game development, like learning coding, making assets and, polishing them . . And, even if one never makes the game at least one had fun making the story and, can store that for later projects or, maybe alter the stories, to fit other places or, games . .

    I just think making stories is fun and, I want to share that experience and, help . .. Ultimately, I think it will help us make better games and, content - - that we have a clear, defined goal in mind before we sit down and, begin making things - --

    I realize making stories isn't as ' cool ' or, impressive as making super - good code or, characters . . But, I think it's an over-looked aspect, of game development - - Having a good story, being able to see scenes and, places in ones mind, before they're made, so one knows what one wants, writing a quick over-view of the story and, progression in game . . It's makes it more and, one can think about action sequences one wants or, comedy stuff - - With a good story, the whole game falls into place, you know what you need and, you can start moving towards that goal . . Without a story or, plan you're just throwing things together and, hoping they work . . That's why I think we should have a ' Story work-shop' Sub-forum because, that will a. Be fun, b. rewarding and, c. Help make the Games - --$

    That's My opinion, any-way - -
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019 at 3:06 AM
  48. Antypodish

    Antypodish

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  49. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Besides the purpose behind splitting a forum section isn't to gain more topics to discuss but rather to lessen the load off of that section. If a section is too heavily visited topics can be quickly buried before they've had a chance to be seen as most people don't go beyond the first page. We're a long ways away from having that happen for Game Design.
     
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  50. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

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    I recommend keeping your story to vague theme until you have level design and testing 99% locked down, then fill it in as finishing polish.

    Keeping things separate like fthiiiis makes adapting to change less painful.

    But is you one of these types that shows up for a bit, talks a lot about games, then disappears? Or is you making them games dawg?
     
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