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Help-need Advice On Continued Education

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 3dgreg, Apr 15, 2019.

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  1. 3dgreg

    3dgreg

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    So here's the deal. I'm 61 years of age. I've been playing with Unity for the last few years. I've also been working with Maya for at least 8 years, Substance, Adobe, etc. All self taught. My weaknesses would be in coding and animations, for now anyway. I have completed the Unity Developers Course but did not take a final test. (No test sites within realistic distances).
    I've just been offers a 4 year scholarship to a local community college. In addition, I would receive @ $800 pocket money a month to go. The problem is this. The local college has a Bachelors of Science Degree program but it's very generic. They do have a lot of coding classes as well as data management type classes ( Cisco servers, etc). We live too far a distance to attend more design or art based schools.
    I do plan to continue with self learning online with Unity but am not sure which direction to go as far as school goes.
    If I'm being paid to go back to school, and who wouldn't, should I focus on the coding side of things? I would be free to use some of the pocket money for more Unity training if I chose, and I'm sure I will.
    So, this is mostly about personal accomplishments but I may as well use it to my advantage.
    Any suggestions or ideas? It'd be appreciated. This is kind of a one shot opportunity. I guess getting old has a few advantages.
     
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  2. hongwaixuexi

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    If you only want to make game, then you have no need to go to local college. But you can talk with some senior students, if their capacity to making game are not skilled, then you should think more.
     
  3. Antypodish

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    @3dgreg oh that sounds very inspiring from a person, with much higher age, willing to continue educating self.

    There is that however, for bachelor you will get multiple generalized topic. Specially on the first year. You will learn as well quite few important skills, in specialized field.

    Question is, is Bachelor course that what you really want. If so, go for it. If in doubt, I suggest analyze pros and cons.

    Yet, you don't need pass any tests, to become good dev. They can help however. Specially if you are self thought. I think you can pull learning programming further by your own, if you feel commitment to it. As you most likely experienced, you best learn on the job.

    However, is quite a big long term commitment. Part time is from 4 to 5 years, if I am correct. You may be quite busy with study and work in that time, not sure, if you will find much time for programming hobby. So that would be my concern on your behalf.
     
  4. 3dgreg

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    Appreciate your opinions. The local college only works with a bachelor of science degree, no Unity, Autodesk, or 3d classes of any type. I can actually get paid to go back to school though, plus have all of my school fees paid for. My thought is to use the local college for a BS degree in computers while continuing my own self education in Unity developing. The programming classes will be beneficial for sure though. Unity developing is what I really want to do. I 'm self taught with Maya, Substance Painter, animation, and Unity at the moment. I'm more of a show me what you can do kind of guy than a degree guy personally. The degree is more for personal goals than anything, but it offers me a chance to spend even more time on Unity. Outside work would be minimal if anything. Not a bad retirement plan for an old guy right, lol.
     
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  5. Pagi

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    As a 21 year old CS student, I can only recommend school. My degree has nothing to do with games(though I took some additional graphics classes), but the school really helped me be a better developer.
    Classes like math, logic, algorithms - they seemed irrelevant to me at first, but in the long run they really helped me think better.
    We also learned C, C++, Python and Java at a basic level, and even though I don't use them much, they also helped me gain insight into different approaches to programming.
    If you want to make games, I think programming is almost mandatory, and school can get that skill from amateur to proffesional, plus it gives a bigger picture of other areas in IT.
     
  6. AndersMalmgren

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    I had a guy in your age in my master of science class. its a 5 year education (4.5 at the time) so when we graduated (And if my memory serves me well, he did see it through) he was already ready for pension (Pension at 65 here in Sweden).

    Not saying you old timers shouldn't educate yourself, but I do see a moral and sustainability problem using tax payers money for it).
     
  7. Antypodish

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    To be honest, I really expected better argument here.
    Yeah, better invest taxes in military. That is very moral.

    Is not like life ends at 65.
     
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  8. Pagi

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    I'd say there are way worse ways of utilizing tax money than for education, no matter the age. He received a scholarship, it's not like he's abusing some loophole in law like some people/businesses do.
     
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  9. AndersMalmgren

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    No but most careers do. I'm speaking in general terms btw. Not individual.
    And yes, there are worse ways to spend tax money :p (In Sweden we have a black hole were all money seems to end up)
     
  10. 3dgreg

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    I don't see how this is any different than doing the same thing at a younger age. I still do work as a consultant and will continue to. This gives me the opportunity to add a Microsoft A+ Cert as well as a Microsoft Server Cert. which will help in getting more consulting work along with adding to my knowledge of programming for Unity. As far as using tax payer money, I'd say I've paid more than a few dollars into that area myself. Who knows, my taxes may have helped with your education. I was also educated in the military, that would have been tax payer money as well. I spend probably 20 hrs a week (consistently over the last 2-3 years) self studying different classes over the internet and all paid for by myself. This gives me the change to bring all of that together into a degree which some people say is a plus, depending on who you talk to. I can point out half of the local college and show you students who will be dropping out quickly because they don't even want to be there. That's more a waste of tax payer money than someone who really wants to learn. As far as age goes, lol, lets not go there. I'd be getting booted off this site fast if we started that conversation. It's not about grabbing free money, it's about taking advantage of an opportunity.
     
  11. 3dgreg

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    Sorry, dumbest reply ever. Maybe he should just stay at home once he reached 65. I mean, at that age he can't possibly be worth any real value right. Moral issue? Really? (By the way, I think i'd like my tax money back for your education please, I'm not seeing any value for my money.) Sorry, your comment really p's me off.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
  12. AndersMalmgren

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    Not saying that at all, but he could have choosen a private school or education. Its really hard for you to get your tax money back since we live in different countries. But in the years since then I have paid it back ten fold (We have the highest taxes in the world here)
     
  13. Antypodish

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    We know you got all best and biggest and can afford everything in the world. But for sake for once, open eyes wider, and see bigger picture please. People are different and living in different places in the world. Is that hard to grasp it? You been indicated that so many times, by different community members.

    Sounded like, if you approaching 65, then time to dig a grave.
    Being jealous or something, that someone wants still to educate?

    @3dgreg Go for it, I keep faith in your education plan. Surely will keep your gray brain cells ecstatic and fresh.
    Don't get yourself getting discouraged, by individuals. Do it as health permits to do so. Not every one has such nice opportunity.
     
  14. AndersMalmgren

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    I'm just seeing it from a society economic view that's all. I can look objectively on it which you seem to fail at.
     
  15. 3dgreg

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    Lol, oh I've looked at all sides of this before making the decision. I'm just curious, at what age should federal grants not be available to a student? 25? 30? 40? 50? I still have veterans benefits, should those be stopped after say 50 ? How about those who use federal grant money for dance theory? Pretty unsustainable future there. I think your argument has a lot of holes in it. Maybe a better question is what does a person plan on doing with the education, do they have a track record of abusing the system or do they take full advantage of it to do something worth while. Ok, not trying to start an argument so I'll let this post go. All respect intended. Still, thanks for your thoughts.
     
  16. TenKHoursDev

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    Man what happened to respecting your elders? Props to you for keeping an active mind. Not many people your age go back to school to learn something they care about. They'd rather just retire and f*** around until they die.

    In contrast anders' comments, this is the opposite phenomenon to what he is describing. Here an individual (3dgreg) about to retire seeks to better themselves instead of living off the work of the younger generations who may never see that money back. One person with or without a scholarship isn't going to be the end of the world anyway. The real problems are another topic entirely.
     
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  17. Billy4184

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    What is your goal with game development? The problem with colleges and universities is that they often take a long time to teach things that could be learnt very fast - partly because they are also teaching you stuff you don't necessarily need to know.

    If you don't have a clear goal in mind, but you just know you want to get into game development, I think definitely do the scholarship. If your artistic skill is already good, I think it would also be a good idea to focus on coding, since the goal here would be to get better in a balanced way.

    However if you have a game plan in mind, and a bit of money to spend, I'd get cracking on it right away because at this point you want to spend your time efficiently. Even when education is free, time is a resource that is not. Possibly hire people for stuff you aren't great at yourself, and start putting stuff out there.

    PS if there's anything that tax money is never wasted on, it's education. Here in australia everyone and their brother is on centrelink support with no supervision whatsoever. If a country wants to provide effective social security, I can't think of a better way to do it than a free scholarship to a college or university.
     
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  18. angrypenguin

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    Take your objectivity and have a look at the "Age" section here. Also read this. This industry has a massive and long standing diversity problem, and using "objectivity" as an excuse is a part of why that situation has persisted as long as it has. People routinely work past the age of 50 in other industries, but that "1%" number number backs up my personal experience of it being a rarity among game developers.

    Also note that careers in the games industry tend to be somewhat short, so it's entirely possible that someone starting at 60 could still fit more than an average length games career into their life if they wanted to.

    Please don't misunderstand. Broadly, I see where you're coming from and agree that there's potential for moral issues... but you so very much picked the wrong case to argue, because in this case it would help to address a clear and long standing issue.

    - - -

    @3dgreg, my only thought is to point out that most game developers aren't good at everything. Even on small teams you have people tending to specialise at least into programming/art type fields. As teams grow the specialisations tend to get more narrow. What role do you want to play in a game/software development team, and does the uni in question have courses which are likely to help with that?
     
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  19. Ryiah

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    Go for it. Community colleges, in my very limited experience with them, are awesome. One great aspect of them is that the instructors are almost always actual professionals in their fields and being able to pick their brain can lead to interesting and informative discussions.

    Plus it's important to remember that the OP has been working for decades. He's more than funded his education over the years that he's been paying taxes. Just think of it as him paying for his scholarship in advance rather than after the fact.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
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  20. AndersMalmgren

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    There is a potential problem if you look on single individuals, if you look at the population as a group it IS a problem.

    One solution is that you by default sign a contract that require you to work let's say ten years after degree or until 65 which ever comes last. Or similar.

    This is probably also less of a problem in a country like the US with healthier politics than my own country
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
  21. Pagi

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    I don't know dude. Judging everything by its monetary value would be a sad society. Maybe he will create great art and maybe the next ten young students will create no value whatsoever.
    EDIT: reavaluated and removed bad bad opinion
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
  22. Billy4184

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    You mean the faceless corporations that built the country you live in?

    How about we all let the man enjoy himself and learn something useful, I'm pretty sure he didn't start the thread to get an earful of random opinions about what taxes should be spent on.
     
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  23. FMark92

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    We're reaching levels of red that shouldn't even be possible
     
  24. Pagi

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    Sorry guys I mean I'm against corporations that abuse employees or circumvent taxes and environmental laws, I'm not a communist. And I know, personal rants don't belong here, will control myself.

    Yeah I'm all for him enjoying it and doing what he wants with the knowledge he gets.
     
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  25. AndersMalmgren

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    Look, I'm not an evil person offcourse I want OP to pursuit his dreams. But we must also look at the cost for the society as a whole.
     
  26. Antypodish

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    I will ask, did you ever not thought about tax avoiding. Or doing thing like buying number of stuff, to avoid paying taxes, to reduce revenues but increase assets? Have you not though, done selling stuff, while still in value after tax year, to recover cash? Didn't you claimed ever any benefits from government? Or get big bonuses?

    Or do you don't think you earn too much? That is so immoral, while many starving, struggling earn $$. Maybe give halve of income to people in need. Sure they will view you as moral god. Maybe they can go to education too.

    Sorry, but we are charged for every little thing in our life, cost of living increases, to earnings, and we are getting cheated on every level, by corps and / gov, to get as much of us as possible. Late with payment, bam extra charge. Late payment bam, credit score go down. Tax of already taxed goods, etc. Not that tax is evil. We god schools and other services. But you know ...

    I would say, take what you can and whenever you can. You don't know an hour, when you may realize, is too late for certain things to do. No one will give dam, if personally won't get initiative. There is no pure moral here, as it may expect to view it.

    What about tons of young students, which never finished, or went to high paid jobs, to contribute back loans and grants? Will be them justified taken expenses?

    Where is that rational, objective, moral based view now. Sorry, but I got hard to believe, any of us here is good ideal tax payer, which won't be trying to reduce contribution to gov/society from own pocket, and gain otherwise, one or other way.

    Looking other way, let say OP will make desired edu. And lets imagine in age of 85 will earn own million from game dev. Wouldn't be that justified investment, in time, money and effort?
     
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  27. AndersMalmgren

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    I have never avoided taxes. The only thing I do is that since I'm a majority stock holder in my company I can take out the revenue as dividend at a lower tax rate. But its completely legit.

    If the majority only take without give society would collapse, and this is exactly what is about to happen in my own country. More and more are on welfare benefits and less and less contribute though actual work and taxes. The US has progressive tax too so dont get me wrong. But in my country they are insane. They start already at 46k USD a year. When is enough, enough?
     
  28. Antypodish

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    I am not claiming you, or anyone do anything illegal. But you did admit, you were looking into reduced tax contribution, in form of dividends. And I bet this is only one of many things, which all adds up. Not pointing at you specifically, but the fact of our life.

    Last world collapse is not due to tax whats so ever. But because of how is design capitalism system and your lovely banks you did job for :)

    I am not claiming for accuracy of following, but rather tendency of cyclic crisis, on average every 20 years.
    This one particular for Australia share market.

    https://topforeignstocks.com/2017/0...eturns-of-australian-stock-market-since-1900/


    Edit:
    I apologize @3dgreg for contributing into offtopic and hijacking thread.
     
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  29. sxa

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    What, its okay using tax payers money for the education of someone who's not made any significant tax contributions, but not someone who has made dozens of years of them?
    Interesting.
     
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  30. FMark92

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    Yet. And they have ~3/4 of their life ahead of them.
    They won't have much time and consequently not as many opportunities to make a return on the investment.
     
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  31. Antypodish

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    Contrary, someone who probably already contributed enough.
     
  32. FMark92

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    And?
    Do you return to the store and pay for bread again after you ate it?
     
  33. sxa

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    Yes, and some of them may even spend all of that making tax contributions, possibly even in they area they studied.

    Are you trying to make this into an either/or thing?

    They've already invested, this is the return.
     
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  34. FMark92

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    What?
    That would be the pension.
     
  35. Antypodish

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    Yes.
     
  36. FMark92

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    Now I just feel sorry for you. Link to your patreon so we can help you out? :D
     
  37. Antypodish

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    Could you please contribute to OP question, rather than looking for place to non contributing argue?
     
  38. FMark92

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    Hurts to run dry, don't it? ;)
     
  39. sxa

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    Please be mroe specific as to what you're having a problem with.

    No, those come from pension contributions. Which are quite different from tax contributions.
     
  40. FMark92

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    "Are you trying to make this into an either/or thing?"
    Pension contributions are just a tax with a promise of return.
     
  41. Billy4184

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    If getting all up somebody's thread on the internet is considered to be an effective approach of bringing about a change in tax spending, it's no wonder that the government ends up doing pretty much whatever it wants.

    Sometimes I think that these forums get mistaken for the sum total of society. Which means that Unity will probably be implicated in the issue at some point.
     
  42. sxa

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    Did someone claim that?
     
  43. FMark92

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    Seconded. @Billy4184 Who claimed such a thing?

    I was only pointing out the futility of investing in an asset that may be on it's way out. Didn't think I would meet someone who pays twice for a loaf of bread in the process but that's about it.
     
  44. Billy4184

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    Not really, no. But if everyone is so concerned about costs and benefits, it's certainly worth starting there.
     
  45. sxa

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    You're predicating older people not getting access as the opposite of younger people getting access. You're making it a false dichotomy.

    Make your mind up, a minute ago they were investments.
     
  46. Billy4184

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    Seriously, I'm just glad that someone is making use of government spending to do something constructive with themselves.

    I would say that this forum is already full of assets that are not exactly producing bountiful results.
     
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  47. FMark92

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    How? Less time -> less opportunities -> lesser chance of a net positive investment -> bad investment.
    Point me to where I wrote that.
     
  48. sxa

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    That's a nice set of chained fallacies you've got there.

    So when you said 'its the pension that's the return' in reponse to 'they've already invested' , you were somehow disagreeing with the notion of a pension being the result of an investment? Interesting.
     
  49. hippocoder

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    Interesting thread, so I locked it.
     
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