Gathering research to create a new RPG Toolkit

I'll start with a short introduction of myself. I lead up an indie development studio called Arc Interactive and have been making games for the last six years. I am highly proficient in C# and created three of my own game engines (back in the day when Unity didn't exist

My favorite games to play are story-driven role playing games. Almost all of Bioware's titles (Mass Effect series, Dragon Age series, Baulder's Gate). I can't forget the good jrpgs like Star Ocean series (The Last Hope being my fav so far), all the Tales games, some FF, and an oldie: Rogue Galaxy.

So to the point. I've spent the last couple months looking at the current assets on the Unity store for making RPG's, dialogue editors, platformers, you name it. I'll admit that some of the kits currently available have some amazing features, but I haven't found one that "fits me" just yet.

I would like to own a toolkit that isn't made for "every genre", so you can just use one kit to make any game you want. A lofty goal to some. But I don't need all those features to make an RPG. And some of the standard features I want, I just don't see yet.

That's why I want to make my own RPG toolkit for Unity, with a heavy focus on a story-driven, single player experience. This will be for 3D graphics and models. (I'm not going to recreate RPG Maker!)

Some of the core features I want to create:
- In-game cinematics
- Detailed conversation system, with important dialog options
- Character personality systems
- Branching decision system, that always gives the game multiple endings (at least, good and bad endings)
- Interesting NPC party members (they have their own backgrounds and personal quests to follow)

Things for a battle system I haven't found and want:
- Switching between weapons inside a battle
- Switching between character classes (or combining classes, woot!)
- Tech trees
- Real-time, arena based battle systems (think star ocean)
- summoning beasts or avatars to fight beside you
- player combo attacks
- Environmental battles (pick up or control objects around you)
- Creating large enemies that can be attacking in multiple places (arms, legs, head, etc)

Development Stuff:
- I want to create video tutorials for every feature. A manual is nice, but doesn't answer every question
- I want all my objects, classes, state machines to be well-commented. It's not that hard, people.
- All game features will be available in a custom-built editor. You don't need to open source if you don't want to
- Oh yeah! All the source code is available.
- A good, reliable undo button that doesn't crash and kill my project.....
- Example scenes and project to start when you get the kit

Of course, this is just a discussion for now and not an actual feature list. There's many more things involved in making an RPG toolkit.
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So the real questions remain:

1. Would anyone be interested in a more...specific kit like this?
2. Are there still people out there that like single-player experiences, just hanging with their NPC party on jolly adventurers?
3. If you are currently using an RPG kit, what features are missing that you'd like to have?

 

1) ME!!!!! I've purchased almost every RPG kit on the store and also still looking for that 'fit' that I am missing. You've got some ideas I'd be keen on trying out
2) Yes, guilty of that too. I enjoy games where the NPCs support that sense of belief and immersion and not just a shell I can ignore while chasing that next level.
3) I would be your adoring fan forever if your kit could bring in the following:
- Flexible pet system that allows interacting with the pet that includes feeding it, playing with it and building a bond with it.
- NPCs that the player character can build relationships with. Friendship, romance, sworn enemy...
- Linked to the above would be a companion system with relationship settings between companions as well as the player
- Random quest generation
- Custom player housing
- Abillity to cater for younger players who cannot read yet (visual quest system) - kudos to S-Quest who brought that in, but would like to see this in a framework/kit too
- Customisable player HUD using the new UI
- Overland map capability (e.g. such as with Wasteland 2 & Shroud of the Avatar)
- Inn/housing/training system to rest, train new skills/abilities, etc.

I would happily hand over my credit card for that...

 

Thanks for the response LadyAth. I agree that having relationships with other characters is a core feature that I'd like to create. I have enjoyed games like the Fable or Dragonage series, where you can romance other characters, or completely piss them off. Its a lot of fun
Technically it would be easy to expand that system to an animal or pet. Although that also means implementing a new animation system for quadrupeds...would be a little extra work.

Along with the subject of animation systems, I can't believe I forgot to mention that. I would love to support Mechanim animation system for all characters. That was something I missed out of other RPG kits - I couldn't easily replace a test character with one from the mixamo store, for example. That needs to change.

Creating quests would be a given in an RPG kit, so I didn't mention it in my first post. I was wondering if you could describe why you would want "random quests" though...if it's like random fetch quest, I'm sure I could create the functionality. Although as a gamer, I don't support that concept I'd like to create a quest system that will somehow link to SOME type of storyline (main, subplots, NPC's, world-building, etc).

Mentioning maps was smart of you. I agree that better minimaps, quest maps, and world maps need to be created. Especially where you can highlight multiple quests at the same time, highlight the current quest, and the waypoint marker currently updates where you need to go. I also highly support making your own waymarkers!

I'm guessing when you mention some place to train, it's like a designated building/area where you can just try out the skills and combat system you have, without hp or damage. Just swinging away for practice? Sounds easy enough.

Thanks for the comments and suggestions!

 

My most earnest suggestion is: Don't make a framework at first. Make a game, even if it's short. In the long run, this is the fastest way to get the framework done and keep your customers happy. Not only will you have a testbed that you can turn into a demo, but it'll give you the opportunity to make sure everything is thought out before involving customers. Otherwise you'll end up with angry customers as you have to rip out and redesign parts of the framework, and the time spent on support cases will drastically cut into your time available to actually continue working on the framework. You can also post the demo in the Work In Progress forum for feedback that you can use to improve the framework.

The Dialogue System for Unity came out of a Mass Effect-style game that was unfortunately cancelled, but luckily after the dialogue system was fully implemented. I'm grateful every day for the solid foundation the project provided, since it makes it much easier to develop and support.

 

TonyLi has some good advice. I think it might also be useful to learn more from the other frameworks that have been published in what worked well and what did not. Still...would be nice to see more RPG frameworks Even if it is released in a modular fashion that can eventually be pulled together.

 

Thank you both for the advice. I fully intend to make a game project that would implement my own RPG kit, and package them together. By posting in this forum, I was hoping to get some "user" advice on what would be most helpful in a sample game project. As my sole intention is to make an RPG tool for the Unity community, getting any advice about features people want is most helpful - specifically when it comes to a story-driven game experience (more close to jrpg, but I don't want people to start thinking of pixels and turn-based battles).

I have used the ORK rpg kit for some time now. While it has a lot of features, I feel it is too broad. It's a kit that allows for multiple battle systems and different ways of setting up your characters (classes, race, guilds, etc). The animation system...was confusing for me to integrate the mechanim properly. There were other features I wanted that haven't been created yet.

I want to make a more specific tool, for one particular rpg play style that's based on story, character relationship systems, real-time battles, and branching story decisions.

I guess I was just curious if people would be drawn to a more specific rpg kit, or they would be turned off because I don't support ALL play styles.

 

1) I'm always skeptical of kits try to be everything to everyone. It means that it's piles of difficult to sort content and it usually means having things added to the project I simply don't want creating bloat. I think that many people wouldn't mind a kit that makes a specific game, like the aforementioned RPG maker makes FF / Fantasy Star clones. If some one has a story idea and just want something as a vehicle this would be perfect.

Just make sure you know what you are making and make it clear to the user.

That, or chop up the kit into multiple assets.

2) Yes and no. I love the lore and exploration of a rich open world, but I hate games that throw endless blather at me in the name of "character development" or "story telling" when it's not really saying anything.

3) I am not. I have however had an interest in making an ARPG down the road. I am thinking something like "Diablo meets Skyrim"; Juiced up characters, skills, and loot. Fast combat and frequent combat. Straight forward quests. And the ability to build your character in any direction without penalty.

So what would I want for that?
-A first person camera
-An inventory
-Menus
-A Character Sheet
-A Skills Tree
-Basic Dialog (Like sign posts, basic)
-Containers/Chests
-Doors/Portals
-A base enemy
-Loot generator
-Enemy generator
-Input mapping
-Saving and loading
-Loading screen that displays random lore
-Stores
-Craft skills
-Artisans
-Basic animations

But that's just me.

 

I couldn't have said that better myself. From my personal experience, getting a new RPG kit from the asset store involves a lot of "sorting" to find the features I want, for MY type of game. Usually I end up going through the documentation, video tutorials, and scrolling through forums figuring out how the source code is organized, so I can modify it anyway.

Nice! This is the kind of answer I was looking for on the forums - if anyone would like a kit for a specific RPG game. For example:
- I don't want to create a turn-based battle system or any version of it.
- I don't want to support 2D animation systems, sprites, or tile engines.
- I don't want to spend time with procedural/random generation of levels.
- I wouldn't be making an open-world game (at first), but support for the loading of different, hand-crafted levels or areas.

I also agree 100%. Having people randomly spit out facts about the game, just to steer you in the right direction is lazy game design. But I like it when you can choose which NPC is in your party, each one is unique (specific backstory, skills, and abilities. A clear advantage / disadvantage in battle). "Getting to know" an NPC that has depth is really interesting to me - hence, why I'd love to focus my kit on character personalities, relationships, and dialog.

You know...don't know if you ever played it, but "Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning" had an amazing battle system. As a programmer, I loved all the technical systems created for that game. You can have a primary and second weapon mapped to different buttons, instantly changing to them during battle. The skill trees could be developed from any class and used together during combat.
Of course that game flopped - lack of coherent AND interesting story. But personally, I'd love to recreate all that type of battle system

From your great and amazing list, the "loot generation" was a feature I hadn't thought about yet (as I was thinking of a more linear RPG feature-set). But it's definitely important - I'll keep that in mind. As for the cameras, I want to support as many as I can (first-person, third-person, top-down). And create a good collision system for the camera, so it doesn't get stuck on walls or freak-out when the player tries to go down a sharp incline.

 

@TonyLi as Dialogue System user .. if you make RPG kit .. I will definitely buy your asset

 

@theoneawaited - I like your thinking; design the game you want to play instead of assembling a list of features that you think will sell. Best of luck!

Thanks! After the cancellation of the Mass Effect-style project I was working on, I had thought to repackage it as a complete third-person shooter RPG kit, of which the Dialogue System would be just a part. I've come around to modular offerings instead, however. Not everyone who needs a dialogue system also wants a shooter system or a relationship system. There's plenty more to scavenge from the project. (The relationship system will be out in a couple weeks.) I'll offer them individually, with attention to easy interoperability, so developers can pick and choose only the parts they need.

 

Thanks! This thread has been helpful so far with steering me in the right direction of what I want to create. It's my first time approaching the idea of the Unity asset store, so it's nice to know about the process you took to get there. During the month of February I will focus on a demo project and keep people updated on my progress.

Your Dialogue System looks fantastic by the way - the branching conversation was a feature I definitely wanted to create. Now it's a little hard to decide if I shouldn't just use your plugin in my project