Gamification

I think the discussion is about gamification in general, basically the ethics involved. I imagine there are degrees just like there are in anything.

Gamifcation might be as innocent as gold stars as feedback or as it could be a way for a company or government or whatever to change the behavior of others. I doubt there is one answer that fits all, like most things.

What makes it move from "juicing up feedback" to psychological manipulation? Or is that not even an issue?

 

Operant Conditioning -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber

As used by slot machines, free to play games, facebook and twitter.

 

It's a hard one to judge. Does a company offering its employees cash rewards for high performance count? What about a sales this month leaderboard?

At one point we actually kidnapped the skill tree structure from Diablo as a training structure. The skill hierarchy a person had was was directly linked to their level, and hence their pay scale.

To be profitable an employer has to incentivise and reward the behaviours they want to see in their employees. The most successful companies tend to be the ones that provide the quickest feedback for behaviour, both positive and negative. And in many ways, that looks a lot like gamification.

 

Quick feedback is great, I doubt anyone would object. I'd just prefer the feedback (being honest and) coming from a real person, because that makes it a lot more meaningful than any "mechanically" gamified reward system.

 

Money is not motivational!

 

Once it is not a concern that is true(like he says). You still have to hit that point before the other factors take over.

I do think the idea of more "free-work" days is a good idea. People like to work on something they can own the credit for and hone their skills. If my work would ever implement something like that I would be ecstatic.

We have a lame version of it stolen from the many silicon valley tech companies where you get to spend 10% of your time working on a project(so 4 hours a week) and it has to be approved by not only your boss but a board of people as well. Completely loses the same feeling of autonomy.

 

Get a dog. You'll want to walk it 3 to 5 times a day minimum or else it will poop and pee in your house.

That concept also applies to this site. Many people come to this site because they have a bug. If no-one reports it the bug will poop all over their project. As you can see there's already a reward system in place, that is Unity QA fixing their S***.

Not my classiest post but I hope it drives home the point.

Or to put it a little bit more academically, there's more to conditioning than rewards and punishments.

 

Argh too much to read in this thread, so I'm just going to dump a few random thoughts. Someone has probably already said the same:

1. I don't think gamification has much to do with games... correction: it has a lot to do with monetization of mobile and social games, but very little to do with gameplay.

2. I disagree with the view that gamification is something for younger people not older people. Most of the studies that I have read suggest there is little difference in impact across different ages. Not going to provide a lit review but google research with keywords like gamification, demographics, perception, etc.

 

I love that you said poop and S*** in the same paragraph in this way,

Like, the first time you decided to use one of the strongest euphamisms for the word possible, then one sentance later you completely forgo any euphamism and go all in.

Anyway, not relevant to anything, just wanted to point that out

 

Well, cash has value and you can turn it into food. Good luck eating profile badges.

On other hand making a "submit your (unpaid) work to our competition and we'll see if you fit our requirements" is a known way to rip off designers and artists.

 

It can be if it's done properly. We used to get small cash bonuses handed out by managers for exceptional performance. The actual monetary value was insignificant. But knowing your work was important and noticed can have a powerful effect.

Titles are known to work as a motivator. I got promoted from run plant engineer to senior run plant engineer at one stage. There was no difference to my job description, but the title helped motivation for a while. I've seen studies that seem to support this idea.

The company was trying badges, but at the time I left there was little buy in.

 

What I am referring to is something that people know they should do but they don't. But I guess a little bit of background would be helpful. I am a Physical Therapist otherwise known as a Physiotherapist up here and probably to BoredMormon. Our most evidence based treatment is the exercises we prescribe but lets face it, most of the exercises we prescribe are pretty darn boring and no one really wants to do them. Thus gamification to help make the exercises more exciting. The really cool thing to me, is that I think that in addition to making the exercises more fun, I can make them more effective. In addition to being a Physiotherapist, I also have a strong neuroscience background and masters/PhD degrees in Biomechanics/mechanobiology so I am really quite confident that I can do this.

So in actuality, you are probably the exact demographic that I should be targeting. However, I have a feeling that I am probably going to be more successful with elite athletes.

 

Probably, as they will be more competitive and reward systems appeal more to competitive. I am so noncompetitive in most cases that I rarely win board games. lol Came in last in Settlers of Catan last night.

My favorite sort of exercise is walking or dancing. So a nice game where I could feel like I was walking in forests or along the beach or dancing to cool 80's music in a laid back club would appeal to me. I would probably spend a lot of time exercising and it would relax me...and bring a lot of enjoyment. I live in a state where 8 months of the year it is very hot outside so walking is simply not an option. When I lived up north, I hiked and camped and canoed a lot, but here the time to do that is so short. And...little live music here, just dance clubs with kids and weird music. lol

I would love to see a game that made exercising enjoyable, not competitive, but just a mind relaxing experience.

 

Maybe Skyrim/Minecraft with one of those VR treadmills?

 

This reminds me of a question I have about these but I will open separate thread on it.

 

On the subject of gamification, this morning I realized Google's navigation app Waze has many of these elements. I've only recently started using it, an Uber driver told me about it. (I had tried it prior to the Google acquisition but at the time battery life, mobile data, and public participation hadn't hit the critical mass to make it any good -- this has changed in a very big way. Highly recommended, much more accurate than Maps.)

Anyway the other day I heard a sound effect I didn't recognize, I looked at the screen and it showed me driving over a piece of candy with a number on it. I went online and apparently there are a ton of ways to score points (automatic ones like that candy thing, participation-based, some online options, etc.)

Just thought it was interesting. I don't much care about it myself but as you might expect, there are some people who get super serious about their points. I kind of question the true value of it to Google/Waze (I wasn't even aware it existed until 2 or 3 months into using the app, and even then I had to go look it up) but it's an example of it showing up in unexpected places.

 

Maybe..but unlike games or forums, Waze is something you use to avoid traffic or find out about obstacles (accidents, etc) rather than something you use every day...at least for some folks. Those addicted to social media might use Waze as another social site, but for me, I use it only when I want to get somewhere and avoid accidents or traffic. It is great for that.

I am horribly annoyed that it keeps trying to get my attention while I am at home and also while I am in my car not using my phone.

The ideal application would only inform you of issues when you turn it on, not constantly. I hate that intrusion in my life, especially when I consider that others might be using Waze as a social media tool while they are driving!!! Scary.

 

I just turn off all those notifications. But I do use it any time I'm driving more than "around the corner to the store."

 

I think 'Gamification' has been warped in it's meaning and description over time and currently sits in a strange limbo where no-one really understands what it is or how it's meant to work and whether it's good or bad. This thread is a good example of that.

From my point of view, I use Unity to make E-Learning applications, we borrow ideas from the gaming industry heavily. They work well for keeping people engaged and enjoying the content, rather than it just being a stiff and boring 'this is how you screw in a lightbulb' slideshow. The key, though, is borrowing ideas that are useful and not just adding things for the sake of being like a game because games are fun.
There's no one size fits all solution to making something better.

 

I think it depends on the application of gamefication and how it is used. Like most things, it can be used for good, such as giving rewards to kids to learn, and to manipulate people to hand over information or money.

I don't think warped is a fair description of what happens...more like too many different ways to apply gamefication and the issues are deeper than just the concept.

Also, like anything else, we all have different opinions on the matter. Some think getting people, sometimes the young and very old, to send money every 4 hours to play a game is okay...it makes money, right? Others think there are more ethical ways to make money. It all depends on your own personal ethics.

Quite honestly, if your ethics have a problem with some applications of gamefications, no one is going to be able to convince you otherwise, and vice versa.