GAIA - AAA terrain generator, procedural texturing, planting and scene creation

Don't think it matters. I don't think they are included in packs at either place yet.

 

No they are not - and they most likely wont be. Its a massive job for SpeedTree to retrofit all their packs and republish them. The other aspect of this is that making a change to improve the scripts becomes next to impossible. The scripts will continue be maintained and supplied separately.

 

Trying something new - if you have a post that contains a tip, include the tag #tip, if you have a post that has links to other resources, then include the tag #resource. Make sure your tags are the first thing in your post.. or if its a reply, the first thing under the reply.

I am also using the first post on this forum as a general index into all things Gaia, and have included the following links there under the Handy Tips section:

* Click on this link to search the Gaia forum
* Click on this link to do a search for posts tagged with #tip
* Click on this link to see google version of the same search (experimental)
* Click on this link to do a search for posts tagged with #resource
* Click on this link to see google version of the same search (experimental)

Here is a sample from a few pages back - it seems to include a lot of other stuff in the results but if you include the keywords at the beginning of the line then its easier to pick them out.

If everyone could use this as an approach then we should be able to make the forum more useful as a tool as well. If you could go back and tag some of your posts that would be awesome as well. Lets see how it goes.

 

Great, thanks.
And exciting news wrt upcoming village exteriors integration

 

Gaia 1.5 was a crazy long slog - so I have taken a slight detour while I am researching how to do the next major feature release in Gaia... and am now well advanced in the development of another tool that can be used with or independently of Gaia ... like Gaia it aims to simplify and speed up a typically time consuming task to deliver awesome outcomes... more news in the next week. If you like making beautiful environments with tools like Gaia then you will most likely want this as well

And in other news, the next version of Gaia will have some particularly cool new assets that will also be free to use with Gaia and which will take your scenes to the next level... screenies will come when I am happy with the progress

 

Always a pleasure to see new content coming from you Adam, excellent job as always

 

Thanks for the information, Adam. I'm going to start messing around with this right now as my goal for this week is to have our outdoor zones finished...finally. The swamp areas are going to be particularly difficult to do, but I'm confident we can get it done.

Heh, this is true. However, because of the angle my game is at, I've been able to have extremely dense grass since it doesn't need to display it far into the distance. If this was a First Person game there's no way I'd be able to get away with it. Still, Gaia has helped randomize it and then I'll just need to paint the areas that have heavier grass density while still keeping things random and fresh looking. I'll see if I can post a couple of screens, but with the angle there's not much to see. Heh, heh.

EDIT: Anyone know how to get a texture to spawn on a mask? I've tried it, but it's not working and I guess there's no "undo" function for textures. Should the mask be inverted for it to texture properly? I'll run some more tests, but I have no idea what I'm doing. For some reason it's not painting the texture, but making the road area black. I'm going to assume that there's something wrong with the rule for the road. I just copied the sand one and made it for the road. Maybe that wasn't the best thing to do.

EDIT2: Screenshot of what it looks like. Ignore the white character. Having some problems with textures on characters and trying to get it worked out. The texture that's on the road right now was painted by hand, but the spawner didn't paint anything on the road mask. The fact that I got it to paint anything (even if it's just white) is amazing by itself. Heh, heh.

 

Hey Guys, just an FYI:

We're having an Arbor Day sale at our store, so if you've been looking to upgrade your trees, we've got a Gaia Starter Pack for $18.

Happy Arbor Day!

 

Cool. I'm in serious need of some cypress trees. Are these trees good for a 3/4 view game (top down)? Some trees we've purchased on the Unity store just don't look good at that angle.

 

Can we use it for making mobile game?

 

Unity 5.4 will have GPU instancing... so this will speed your speed trees up significantly - get em while they are on sale

 

Just want to give a big shout out to SpeedTree. I needed some marine assets for one of my games levels. Cut a long story short I had a problem and speedtree customer care sorted it in 90 minutes and also went above and beyond. Really really really impressed with how they sorted it. Wouldn't be posting otherwise.

 

Looks like Gaia is refusing to "paint" terrains now. This is why those white areas are showing in my pic above. Turns out my spawner for the road is right, but Gaia isn't painting on the terrain so it's ending up white (or black in the editor). Not sure what's causing it, but I'm gonna have to leave this alone until I can figure out how to fix it. Painting on the terrain manually works fine, though.

 

if you are talking about speed trees, NO but maybe in few years with next generation or if you do a scene with only on speedtree using lod 1 it could run. concerning Gaia i use it on my mobile project it work really well. the only thing is your art and props, it need to be optimised

 

Does your terrain have white textures set up on it? Your character seems to have the same issue. Looks shader related.

I have seen terrains get into 'weird states' in the past. And of all the things i tried, resetting unity layout to default resolved it. No idea why but suspect some edge case unity bug.

 

#tip A blog post on unity lighting here. Some of my rules of thumb -

I often disable lightmap baking because my scenes are short lived - but you really should take the time to bake them - the difference is dramatic.

If you have something that is not going to move - mark it lightmap static or it wont get included in the GI bake. And the impact of not doing this is significant as you can see in the image below.

If you have something that will move e.g. a character - then you need to set light probes up in your scene or it won't be lit properly. If you have only one directional light then this may be less of an issue.

By default Gaia assumes that you have set up your prefabs correctly i.e. everything that doesn't move is static. But often this isn't the case. I will add a parameter that can over ride these settings when prefabs are spawned in the next release.

Don't use both Precomputed Realtime GI and Baked GI at same time - it adds unnecessary overhead. There are scenarios where you want to mix them - your lights need to be modified appropriately.

Set your Directional Light to use the correct type of GI - either Real time if it is real time, mixed if you have both real time and baked, or baked if you just have baked.

If this incorrect - or there are better tips on lighting - please correct me. I find the Unity documentation on this topic confusing.

On top of this - there are still issues with Unity lighting. Here is a scene i have been working on in Unity 5.3.4 p2 to explore lighting and performance - you will notice issues with the SpeedTree shader - which is either incorrectly set up - or has a bug (there are plenty).

 

I agree with you.
However from my point of view, SpeedTrees shouldn't be set as 'lightmap static' when spawned as gameobject: it's an overkill to lightmap all these trees.

 

You may well be right - but in that case there is something up with SpeedTrees in the terrain and SpeedTrees as Game Objects and GI. Will dig more into it and see if i can crack it.

 

Well the SpeeTree shader have a nolightmap compiler directive which seems to be there to disable lightmapping support...

 

Really have to stop following this forum...spending too much.

 

Nice sale!! too bad i can only pay with a credit card which i dont have at the moment.. but will figure something out.. Can't wait to use some of those with gaia and the other assets i bought... then will finaly post some images after reading here for a long time without ever posting anything at all

 

@AdamGoodrich,

Did you have a look at this that I posted a bit back. It's a qoute from the Advanced Foliage Shader documentation. From what I can see of the quality of AFS then @larsbertram1 may have nailed some of these problems -

"Linear lighting is like a key to physically based rendering.
But using linear lighting comes with some special and very important demands of which may be the most important is:
All textures which are not diffuse albedo textures have to bypass the sRGB sampling!
I really can not overemphasize how important this point is—as i stepped into this trap myself several times ;-)
The foliage shaders commonly use some combined „normal, translucency, roughness/smoothness“ textures. Those textures have to bypass the sRGB sampling under any circumstance: Just select the texture in the „Project“ tab, set „Texture Type“ to „Advanced“ and check „Bypass sRGB Sampling“ in the inspector.
The tree shaders use even 2 of those combined textures: Normal map(GA) Spec(R) and Trans(RGB) Gloss(A): Both should bypass sRGB sampling as well.
So in case you get some strange bump mapping or lighting (especially noticeable if the transitions between billboards and mesh trees do not look smooth) this is probably caused by the fact that the combined textures do not bypass sRGB sampling."

I'd try this with the speedtrees to see if it clears up any of those leaf lighting errors. I may be wrong as I have not got to learning shaders properly yet. I just re post it as it made an obvious difference to some of my scenes.

 

@AdamGoodrich I was able to solve the SpeedTree leaves see-through bug using a custom SpeedTree shader and more importantly a custom lighting model.

 

Cool - i will pass your approach on to Unity - I know they are working on this at the moment

Hard to tell from your images... shouldn't the leaves be somewhat affected by the light - i.e. a lot of leaves are semi translucent.

 

I can't find it in the documentation...someone remind me, how do you resize GAIA to "know" about the terrain size, if you adjust it?
I doubled the size of a terrain I was working on, and GAIA still thinks it's the previous size.

 

Yeah you're right, there should be some kind of transparency in the leaves. Most likely my approach to fix it is not ideal. However when looking a group of trees facing the sun it looks "less wrong" than with the current bug, and especially with LODs level 1 & 2.

That said, I'm almost sure now that the problem is in the lighting model being used.

EDIT: From what I've tested this morning, this issue ever existed since 5.0. It's appearing with Deffered shading only and more noticeable in Linear Color Space. And if Unity is already fixing it then I'll not waste my time trying to fix it.

 

I need to create an underwater world for my game. Can i do that with GAIA giving users the feel of navigating through water deep in the sea. Need it for a mobile game as well.

 

The rule is if you can use a terrain for it you can use Gaia to make the terrain. That's all it really does. So if you're using a terrain for your seafloor, Gaia will be fine for it. The only thing you'll need to do first is create a new resource file with appropriate underwater textures and plants. I just picked up the Desktop Marine package from SpeedTree when it was on sale recently, and will be using it for the underwater parts of some of my scenes (using spawn height to only place them below sea level). A scene that's entirely underwater would be even simpler.

 

Its in the defaults file. If you have spawners already in your scene they will also need to be adjusted to support the new size.

Because they automatically adapt to the scene when you create them the best thing is to delete and re-add them.

 

Hello. I am new here and to Unity. A few things...

First, if you are reading this and are unsure about Gaia, this product is amazing. I've never had such an easy time making everything for my needs.

Second is a question. When I build and run my game, it (while playing it) is SUPER slow. Any idea why this might be? I have some powerful hardware. The only thing I use is Gaia and Unity by itself. I followed the quickstart to the letter.

Thanks!

- Paw

 

Gaiai looks simply amazing. We bought Gaia when it was on sale in anticipation for 2.0 and support for multiple terrains. I've read the feature road map, but can you please let us know

1. Do you have a rough idea of when you will release 2.0?
2. Will you provide integration for any multi-terrain streaming products e.g. World Streamer, SECTR STREAM, etc.
3. Is it possible to add cutouts in the terrain for caves or buildings with basements below the terrains surface?

Thanks heaps
SureSight

 

for the 3. it use unity terrain and Heightmap which have their own limitation so by default its not possible to cut holes in terrain, you can fake it with rtp or dig a hole on your terrain and add a cave overlay as a mesh over your terrain hole you just dig

 

RTP does terrain holes, as well as having a geometry blend thing that should do what you want as far as holes and caves. If your building will have the basement though, make sure that the "level" terrain is high enough that can dig the holes deep enough, or you will have terrain running through the basement.

 

The default settings will generate scenes that generally perform quite well.

However, if you have multiple main cameras with multiple audio listeners then you will have significant performance issues. So do a check - make sure you don't have two copies of your main camera in your scene. By default Unity will add one - and then when the player is added it also has one. You need to disable all but the cameras on the player.

Not yet - if I make a promise and break the committed time line then I will just irritate people. The next major development push for Gaia 2.0 will be multi tile. I was hoping to make development in Unity more of a full time thing, but unfortunately it does not bring in enough of an income to justify a full time commitment so Gaia has gone back to being a part time project.

I have been talking to the author of World Streamer. The next major release of Gaia will be optimised to both increase spawner performance, and also play nicely with tools like these.

As unity terrain doesnt support things that are below the terrain surface, providing cutouts has not been something I have explored. You could however create a square stamp and subtract it from the terrain surface to create the space for basements. I will look at adding some samples in the next point release.

In other news - the Gaia website is getting some much needed love - check the new tutorials pages here. There is a lot more content that will be added onto the Gaia web site in the coming weeks.

 

You nailed it thanks! LOVE this!

 

Ooooooh.... ahhhhhh...

Speaking of tutorials.. I've kind of had a hiccup with the Sectr series. My crappy computer isn't doing well trying to work with the 32k terrain that I was trying to split up in the tutorial. It isn't an issue of Gaia and Sectr not being able to handle it. It is an issue with my computer.

I may end up having to try to recreate it on a smaller scale and I can showcase the concepts which you can apply to a larger terrain if that is what you need. At this point I can't justify tying up my machine for the amount of time it is trying to chug through breaking things up. Pretty much shot today working with it.

At any rate, for now the Sectr and Gaia series is paused unless someone else wants to pick up the reigns...

 

Did you need to run the tutorial at 32k for some reason?

I bet it runs a whole lot better if you reduce the scope of your terrain to just 16k. And you can also play with breaking the sectors up into smaller, more easily loaded pieces.

 

I went with 32 because that was what I saw someone ask about here. Breaking up into smaller pieces isn't the issue after they are broken up. The issue is my machine trying to chug through the process of breaking them up.. heheh

16k is even going to be too much for this machine. I'll probably have to go to a 4-8k range which still should be enough to demonstrate the process. If I actually needed to build the terrain for some reason, I could deal with the waiting. But since it is only for this tutorial, I have a hard time justifying the downtime with my machine. But the process would be the same regardless of the size you are starting with, I guess.

 

Hi @SureSight

I am just commenting on point 3
I have implemented a really simple solution

With the Village Exteriors Kit I have implemented an easy to use modular Plinth System like a nice foundation system that will allow for buildings on very uneven terrains.
I did this for almost 100% of building assets on the Asset Store required you to have to have flat terrain and in my opinion that is very limiting, uninteresting and unrealistic.


Here are some screenshots that show how the terrain is just pushed down with the plinth providing the space that you need for the " Basement "

A selection of prefabs are also included to provide an outside basement excess system that can be seen working well with internal staircases as well.





Here is a Live Web DEMO of "The Basement", you will need Firefox to run that you can see
Please note that the Village Interiors Kit as well as the Village Exteriors Kit was used here to show the whole thing working together.

Other great uses of the plinth system
Post 1 Post 2

Cheers
Cobus

 

Hi Adam. Do you have an ETA on a proper multi-tile implementation?

 

Hey there

Post #5587, up a few posts back answers the question from Adam himself

Cheers
Cobus

 

I'd like to apologize in advance for this question but I'm running out of options. Hours of google searches, forum scouring and good old trial and error (3 weeks' worth) have led me to this point.

My terrain is 16 km x 16 km divided into 2 km x 2 km tiles. I'm dynamically loading the tiles and will require roughly 10,000 trees of varying species per tile. I'd like to use SpeedTrees and have been testing with them.

With 5.4b (RC16), I'm seeing a framerate between 25 fps and 45 fps.

I've come up with a few options but knowing how my fellow Gaia users are very knowledgeable--and how desperate I am--I thought I'd put this to you all.

So far, I've considered the following:

-mesh/texture baking of SpeedTrees by species
-reducing the number LOD for each SpeedTree
-layering
-custom batching of SpeedTrees (beyond what was promised for 5.4)
-using fog as a mask

I appreciate any suggestions and opinions on this.

Thanks.

 

@Pequisto Just some thoughts...

Is the main issue speedtrees, or could it possibly be terrains, details, etc?
If it isn't terrains, but definitely speedtrees, the only thing I know to do right off the top of my head would be to turn off drawing trees for distant tiles, make the speedtrees as simple as possible (get rid of extra colliders, make wind cheap, etc). Turn off the transition stuff that is a bit slow from what I've heard.

Also...you might try substituting some regular tree models in place of the speedtree ones, and see if that makes that much of a difference.
I think batching could really help, depending on how complex your trees are.

If it's possibly also an issue with the terrains...
I'd make sure distant terrains have everything turned down...terrain detail, drawing trees and details turned off, etc.

Also...it may just be that having 64 terrains at once, that big, is a but much. I played around with having a grid of near terrains in an earlier project, 8x8 like yours. But these were very close and small.
Around that I had a custom mesh I used instead of Unity's terrains, I generated it around the detailed terrains. It had much less detail, very low detail trees (I'm talking quads basically), and these were batched. So basically, trees were distant grass.
The hassle was, this had to be regenerated around my detail terrain area as I moved around. It's a lot more work than just plopping down a big 8x8 grid of unity terrains, but the performance was good.

Anyway...just some thoughts, hopefully it helps.

 

Unless you have made your own shader that adds instancing support to SpeedTree's in 5.4, we haven't really seen what the instancing stuff in 5.4 can do for SpeedTree performance yet. I was hoping Unity would have included their own in the beta by now but they don't seem to have and my weekly nagging in the 5.4 beta forum hasn't yielded any fruit yet.

 

Thank you for some food for thought.

To be clear, my terrains are loaded and unloaded dynamically so there are never more than a handful of terrains loaded at any given time depending on the player's position and proximity to neighbouring tiles.

 

This is true. I've sniffed around for info on this and despite umteen 5.4 beta builds, we're still not seeing any love for SpeedTrees.

 

I'm assuming you are looking for ways to improve performance? That seems to be the direction you are going but you never really state what you are looking for an opinion on.

If that is the case, consider Trees Manager System which does an awesome job dealing with large numbers of trees. Elroy is currently working on rebuilding it into a new asset called uNature which also has grass management options, pooling, and a lot of other things that will help with performance. Personally, I don't touch the Unity betas since they seem to break more than they fix. But from what I've heard on what is planned to be released with 5.4 for performance, the combination of that and Elroy's asset will make for some awesome performance boosts.

 

I have a question related to Gaia workflow. From my understanding at some point I need to stop using gaia spawners. Or at least stop using them for whole terrain. Cause when I'm at the point when I need to make manual changes to terrain texturing or tree\grass positions, it's the point when when using gaia spawners will "destroy" my changes.

So is this the approach everyone is using? I mean.
- Do as much as possible using gaia spawners.
- At some point stop using gaia spawners and do all changes related to terrain textureing, tree\grass positions manually.

 

I've considered TMS / uNature although I was under the impression it required a networking asset like Forge or uNet.

And, yes, I was looking for an opinion or some suggestion on how to increase performance.

 

I was just about to suggest that, but you beat me to it. It lets you only generate tree colliders within a certain distance of the player, and also supports multi-threading, to reduce the impact of all those trees. The news about uNature is also good, since having lots of grass is also a performance killer. I'm not sure how Unity 5.4 improvements will compare, but between them you should see a big improvement.

@Pequisto No, you don't need Bolt or Forge networking to use TMS. It just supports them, the same as Gaia supports things like Aquas water for instance.