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Full Unreal Engine 4 Developer Kit $19/MO + 5% / Why can't Unity Offer the same!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by im, Mar 19, 2014.

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  1. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Because you have to upgrade to Unity Pro if you have "annual gross revenues (based on prior fiscal year) in excess of US$100,000".

    http://unity3d.com/legal/eula
     
  2. Ostwind

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    Yes but thats completely another thing than we were talking about. Hitting 100k all the sudden from low or no income is massive challenge no matter what engine is used. Debate was can you earn anything with a game done with free version.
     
  3. Ryiah

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    Earn anything? Or earn an amount that is capable of supporting your company? You won't be able to support a staff beyond two or three individuals with $100K. Not with all the additional side costs involved.
     
  4. Deleted User

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    Being honest I can't see why not, I did a top down hack and slash in Unity free a kind of a diablo sorta thing and it was fun and if I released it, I potentially could of earned some money out of it. But if you want to try and compete in the Unreal type of category, super shiny / large / super sweet looking OMG GFX type of game, Unity Pro doesn't cut it never mind Unity free.

    Silliest message ever but works, "You don't know what you want until you know it". A lot of this is about pre-planning, if you are designing a game that needs X features then you have to budget accordingly for it. Issue is if you've never done this before you fall back to the silly message.
     
  5. Teila

    Teila

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    Some of us want to move beyond hobbyist. Our game is being developed with the expectation of publishing. We probably won't get rich, but since Unity says we should get funding to buy Pro then I guess we are not hobbyists. Weird cycle, huh?

    Pro is not for hobbyists, but to be more than a hobbyist means publishing and to publish you must get funding and to get funding you must have pro because as a Unity Free user we are now competing not only with Unity Pro, but with UE4 in the "funding" market.

    Unfortunately, the bar has changed and those of us who can't afford dishing out $4500 or $225 a month (yikes, a car payment!), either stay hobbyists or we go elsewhere. I love Unity! I want to stay with Unity. I have all sorts of good things to say about Unity!

    But Unity doesn't want people like us. UE4 does.:(
     
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  6. zenGarden

    zenGarden

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    Unity offers UT Free desktop and mobile to people like us, don't say it don't want.
    The way they see it, is people using Free version to become successfull first, than buy a Pro license.
    Having UT and mobile for Free is just encouraging that way.
     
  7. Deleted User

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    @Teila

    Thing is you're getting it for free, I understand it's frustrating but you can only place so many expectations on a free product. Where things become problematic is you pay for a product and it STILL lacks.!

    But none of us really know what's happening with Unity 5.0 bar Unity and probably a few alpha testers (so does it lack / doesn't it?), I gather Unite is X-men the last stand.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2014
  8. Teila

    Teila

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    I don't mind paying at all and don't mind paying more than for UE4. Unity is worth it. But I think the cost is too high compared to the market. If you have a team of more than one person, it makes it very expensive. Compared to the current market, UT is expensive. I have Adobe subscriptions that are a fraction of the cost of the full package. With UT, my prescription would be more expensive than buying it outright, which is not something I can do at the moment. When you consider that UT is behind the competitors in many ways, it doesn't make sense to pay 4x more for UT.

    I realize a lot of you don't get it...but we live in a market driven society. I am not bothered that there is a free version or that we can't do everything in the free version. What bothers me is the way Unity justifies charging so much. I have to justify to my team why we should pay $225 a month for three licenses rather than $57. Using Unity's justification just doesn't make sense.

    If I didn't like Unity so much, I wouldn't be posting at all. I do not want to get something for free. I just want something for a reasonable cost or the chance to use Unity Pro for testing and then pay when we publish. At least we have a chance of getting that elusive funding that way.
     
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  9. zenGarden

    zenGarden

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  10. Archania

    Archania

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    Nothing wrong learning as much as you can.
     
  11. Teila

    Teila

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    Hmm, why would I do that? LOL If I am going to take the time to learn a new product, then why would I pay 4x as much money to switch back? UE4 is beautiful but what I like about Unity is that I know how to use it pretty well...still learning, but getting there. I like the Asset store, too and the community.

    If I leave, make my game with UE4, I will learn that editor as well. My programmers will jump up and down because one is a C++ programmer and the other has been trying out Blueprint and adores it. I am the only one who is in love with Unity here! :) You think I can drag them away after we all spend months learning our third engine? LOL

    Not all of us mind paying royalties. If we make money, we pay royalties and we have the money to pay the royalties. When you are raising a family, saving for college and retirement, you don't always have the disposable income to invest without first earning money. I have to say though, the $4500 is going to put a bigger dent in our funds than the $19 a month. And of course, that is another $1800 whenever there is an update or even more if we add another programmer or two.

    I do not have these unrealistic expectations that we will make 100's of thousands of dollars with our game. I don't mind paying royalties. If we do make that much money, we can renegotiate with Epic.....ha, as if we would be that lucky! lol
     
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  12. Aiursrage2k

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    I dont know the thing i learned is that even if you lowered the price to say $19/bucks a month i dont think unity would get as much money as they are getting from the $75 a month. Because the freeloaders wont pay, and the amount of people who would pay would be less then those that pay a premium -- they wont get 5x as many people paying if they reduced it to $19 a month -- otherwise why wouldnt they do it.

    I know because i have things in the asset store for over 2 years. And its not just me look at the #10 top grossing items its always something like $100 -- you wont see a $10 or $20 thing there
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2014
  13. Voronoi

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    I don't know. It seems like the bulk of the discussion about UE4 vs. Unity vs. Unity Pro is that if you have a great game, adding feature X (shadows, IBL, etc.) will make it be competitive and without that feature, nobody will buy it. I really don't think successful games are simply a checklist of what engine feature was implemented. Meaning, if all features used, it becomes a good game.

    So many games are great because, well they are good! Monument Valley does nothing sophisticated, no real shadows, no lighting, etc. and it looks and plays great.

    While I do like that UE4 has lots of great features, I just don't think I'll be making a better game by using it. And, I don't think I will be nearly as productive as I currently am in Unity. I don't really have to think of what I'm doing in Unity, just have an idea and then implement it. If the idea sucks, I find out pretty quick. The workflow sounds painful in UE4's current state. Maybe when it's editor reaches feature parity with Unity, and prototyping is as easy and quick, I'll take a closer look.
     
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  14. Aabel

    Aabel

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    Unity Technologies and Epic have completely different business models and development strategies. They are so different that I don't think it's really possible to expect Unity to match Epic's 19/month +5%

    If you don't find Unity to be a good value anymore just move on and use what works better for your work.
     
  15. Cyrien5100

    Cyrien5100

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    As said, the problem with unity free is you cant make all the styles you want. Individually, each feature is not a big jump, but combined, they adds a lot for a game. Yes, there is great games without lighting etc. but if they are not the sort of games you like doing ?
    But Unity have a great value : his lovely workflow and his simplicity/efficiency.
     
  16. Teila

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    How did you learn that? I am curious. :)

    I have a tough time believing that they would not get $19 a month from 5 people who are currently using Free. Most of us want to want to pay for what we get. When I consider how much I put into Asset store products to try to make up for shortcomings and they did not work...geesh. If I didn't want to pay I would just pirate whatever I needed. Right?

    I actually think Unity has other options. How about a Pro version that is watermarked? You can't publish with it but you can use it to make your game and then purchase a license after you get funding. Why is that a problem? Or is it the loss of Asset Store revenue? Honestly, I refuse to buy anything else to try to make up for Unity Pro. None of it worked at all, either too power consuming or simply didn't work as expected. My best spent money was on stuff that would work with either Pro or Free and I would buy them again if given the chance.

    I don't get the comparison with costs at the asset store with the cost of Unity. Are you saying because the top grossing items are over $100 that means that Unity is a money grubbing company? I think the developers set the prices and most of those are worth the money...or I think they are. I suspect they are because they get good reviews! :) I know I bought a few at that price range and have not regretted it.
     
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  17. Teila

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    Okay, thanks. :)
     
  18. Deleted User

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    You must of missed all the posts on the last page / the one before that etc. when I said all of this.

    Let's wrap it up, if Unity don't drop the price they have to beat them in features and support. There has to be some sane reason to stay with Unity, oh some say C++ or ease of use. I'd agree but it's not a good enough reason IMO, UE4 isn't that hard to use a pain in the rear some times. But not that hard!.

    I've spent a lot of time and money with Unity / the asset store. Not on a commercial level but on a personal one.. So with a singular logical reasoning, am I missing something?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2014
  19. melkior

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    It is something that is nearly impossible to tell before you do it. That is the real problem.

    However I think it would be more than the current number no matter what.

    It just makes too much sense , here's two examples:

    1) If you are a single developer who's been holding out for a lower price, well then you would probably subscribe! The price is now affordable!

    2) You are a large shop and you had 2 seats you could afford before but you were holding out on 3 other people in your shop because you couldn't afford to shell out the money for those 3 extra seats! Now all of a sudden you can afford to fund a license for everyone!

    Example that does not make sense:

    1) We are a big AAA shop and purchased 4 licenses, now its cheaper we are going to go down to 2 or just cancel outright -- this is outrageous!!!

    I personally feel its very safe bet that more people will pay no matter what if they lower the price. The real question for Unity Technologies is "what is the best price we can change it to, that will net us the biggest increase in paying users, that increases our net revenue"

    What's interesting here is there are other factors these two guesstimates don't take in to consideration:

    - Royalties : One would assume a lower subscription price would come with a royalty percentage to balance it out. If so even in the lower amount of subscription rate some money would be recouped through royalties.

    - Asset Store Purchases: More users, mean more asset store purchases!

    - Sunk Cost: People who buy in to Unity, then buy in to Assets are going to feel the 'sunk cost' factor. They have spent money and resources in the engine (at any price) will make them more likely to continue using it. Even if the price for Unreal is lower; the fact they have already spent money in Unity is likely to retain customers.

    Its extremely advantageous for Unity and Unreal to get you paying so that you are 'invested' in their technology.
     
  20. Ryiah

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    Affordable but not necessarily a good deal. It is more expensive to subscribe to Unity than it is to subscribe to UE4, SpeedTree, and Maya LT all at once.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2014
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  21. Peter Apple

    Peter Apple

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    In conclusion:
    1. If you want to apply a job with a project including eye-catching effects to attract your employers, don't use Unity free.
    2. If you has little budget and don't want to hit a wall soon, don't use Unity free. (But UT will not tell beginners about this.)
    3. If you don't invest a lot of time and money on Unity in the past, don't use Unity free because you have other choice now (UE4, Shiva3d 2.0, etc.).
    4. If you are not on vip email list, don't use Unity free because what you suggest will be considered in the lowest priority.

    Hoping Unity 5 has some secret and unique weapons to beat UE4 later. Thanks.:)
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014
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  22. Aiursrage2k

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    Okay i am just telling you what I think from basically spending 2+ years in the asset store experimenting with pricing. Now if you look at the top grossing items most of them are $90+, if someone could make more money by selling volume (more units by selling it a lower price) then you wouldnt see $90 items as the top grossing items. For example why doesnt dokion forge sell it at $25 a pop. The fact you dont see that happening to me means that if Unity priced it at $20 a pop they wouldnt get 4x as many subscriptions -- to make up the difference
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014
  23. zenGarden

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    There is cases that don't apply to that list :
    - if you make a 2D game UT free is not so bad
    - mobile simple 3D graphics
    - PC simple stylish games and retro look ones

    Once you want to go further than simple graphics, your are blocked with UT Free, you must buy Pro or turn away to other solutions like you said.



     
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  24. nipoco

    nipoco

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    Whut?
    Should UT put a warning sign in front of Unity Free:
    "Attention! This version is seriously limited and not meant for making the next Skyrim"

    Everyone who can read, can visit the comparison page and see what Unity free is capable of and what not.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014
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  25. zenGarden

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    It's free and better than many open source 3D engine without good world editor , so people should stop bashing it.
     
  26. Archania

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    That is it...
    "UNITY shut it down! Shut it down now! Everyone just stop what you are doing and leave the building! Apparently no one can use our engine to make anything. Sorry all but we tried..."
     
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  27. Peter Apple

    Peter Apple

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    Completely agreed. Better than none.
     
  28. GiusCo

    GiusCo

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    Why UE4 then? Unity Free is overkill compared to Corona SDK starter (free too and iAds included) for 2D and retro / stylized mobile games.

    The perception is skewed because freeriders / hobbyists / amateurs / one-man bands just want free lunch, more and more features for free. Not in bad taste, be assured, just like kids we are eager to mess with the best tool at hand, even mastering not more than 10% capabilities and fundamentally wasting our time instead of being productive and ship games.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014
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  29. SememeS

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    Here's a thought....Why not just go try out ue4 instead of speculating on it's magic?

    simple solution.

    Then if you like it more keep using it. If you don't then you can come back to Unity.


    If the reason you're on this thread though is pricing, then you've all made your point countless, countless times. Trust me they heard all of you.. did UT hurt you that badly to deserve such a severe gangbang?

    It's starting to get hard to watch and downright frustrating. I literally feel like I'm watching someone getting raped.

    Seriously people.. at this point many are going on about EVERY single thing.. this is mad.. it's waaaaaay beyond pricing, this thread's original purpose you know? The thread's ORIGINAL purpose.


    .
     
  30. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Yeah It's enough I think. I've locked it as there's pretty much nothing more to say and it's going on and and on and on like a rat chasing it's tail. Putting it to sleep. If Aurore likes, she can open it up again, as is her right to do so.

    But I think we can all agree its been going around in circles for a few pages now.
     
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