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ForestVision [ Artist Essentials Product ]

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by mcbauer, May 13, 2016.

  1. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    Awesome thanks for the feedback!

    In regards to the clouds, I agree I think it could get to be a bit much for realtime applications, but my focus is on using Unity for rendering. So dense forests, and high resolutions clouds wouldn't be a concern. But I think that adding in the ability to capture the sky you create and out put it to a skybox would be beneficial. Lots of things on the horizon :)

    Regarding the rocks, again it just comes down to crafting that perfect shot. Being able to dive into a library of rock assets to let you create a photoreal gravel path, to a cliff wall, to a distant mountain would be nice to have.
     
    IFL likes this.
  2. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    Any screenshots from ForestVision owners out there? I'd love to see what you are coming up with.
     
  3. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    Do you guys like the idea of creating a way to easily share community created prefab tree collections?
     
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  4. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    How important to you is it to have ready made scenes shipping with ForestVision?
     
  5. JBR-games

    JBR-games

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    It's definitely a good idea to have at least a small scene showing how impressive your asset can look if done right
     
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  6. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    Ok, I will see what kind of issues I have with just porting over the scenes from the examples shots. They are hefty, so no promises on how well they are going to run for everyone :)
     
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  7. Hellhound_01

    Hellhound_01

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    First of all: Gosh what an awesome asset! Great job!

    I'm actually evaluate your LITE version before I will bought the full version to check if your asset is compatible with the MapMagic terrain generator.

    Actually I struggle with the reimport of any created prefab: Any imported model lies on z-axis and have to rotate by -90 degrees, any submesh is removed: http://imgur.com/SZNctBC.

    If I use the prefab as gane object anything is fine, I must only rotate the tree.

    Meanwhile I've checked the source code and got the information of the MapMagic asset developer that the tree generator which adds the tree as unity build-in tree does nothing special ...

    Is there something I've to regard on prefab creation? Or could be the problem that your asset doesn't create the LODs and Billboards which are used by unity build-in trees (I thought this should be done dynamically if I use a prefab as build-in tree)?

    Edit: I don't know if it is reasonable but I figured out yesterday that any prefab preview image is also rotated cw by 90 degrees
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2016
    mcbauer likes this.
  8. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    I have not looked into Map Magic so I can't comment specifically on the compatibility.

    Prefabs that currently ship with FV don't contain LODs or billboards. The first goal of FV is to create assets that are as detailed as the designer requires. It is very easy to create LOD for the prefabs, but you must do that manually.

    Regarding the rotation of the models by -90, that is a flaw from the 3ds max export. I'm so used to it at this point, I don't even notice it anymore. The way it is designed now, you should be able to drag and drop any of the completed prefab trees with out any rotation issues. The source meshes will need to be rotated as they are straight from Max and have not had any manipulation applied.

    I hope to release an update I am working on very soon. This update will make things very easy for you, and I hope to release prefabs that are LOD ready.

    My ultimate goal with FV was not to create game ready assets, but assets that can be used in the creation of High resolution renders from Unity. That is the project I am working on, and the reason why I set out to make FV. None of the other tools out there gave me what I wanted in regard to ultimate flexibility and customization--in the editor.
     
  9. Hellhound_01

    Hellhound_01

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    To exept that this issue is not based on Map Magic compatibility I will write a simple import script with default unity terrain tomorrow in the evening. I think it's a problem with unity build-in tree instances at prefab import, because Map Magic does no magic on prefab import.

    I think this should not be a problem. I belive I've read in somewhere that the Simple LOD asset could help at this point.

    Ok that explain anything.

    This sounds good. I will give it a try.

    Ok other intention as expected but I hope your tool could be an option to create multiple tree variants also for unity terrains. I know there are other good solution like SpeedTree but those are too expensive for an hobby Indie developer like me.
     
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  10. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    Thank you for your feedback, and I look forward to hearing back from you in regards to whether or not you were able to get things working, and will offer my help as well.
     
  11. JBR-games

    JBR-games

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    It would be nice to take your ready made prefabs and be able to use them with unity terrain. Currently this asset is no good to me without that, and im sure that goes for many others.so adding this compatibility should also greatly increase sales possibilities.

    Soon ill mess with making a prefab with something like "simple lod" and see if that works with unity terrains then.

    Although lods would also be nice, if its compatible with unity terrain it automatically generates its own billboards which helps alot.
     
  12. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    I will most certainly look into this and add this functionality. Thanks for the tip!
     
  13. Hellhound_01

    Hellhound_01

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    I can only agree here. I think this asset has a lot of potential and I am looking forward to test it out. I will inform you if I got any news. Thanks for your offer to help.
     
    JBR-games likes this.
  14. asimov99

    asimov99

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    Hi

    I have buy your asset because actually in my game, speedtree is very slow..

    But.... Arghhh.. Your trees look very good but no lod. I put one tree in my scene : -20fps.
    You say it's easy to create lod, ok but how i can reduce mesh? Simple Lod cost 30$...

    I have just Unity and your asset, how can i do to reduce mesh? Please can you make prefabs with lod? Or give simple differents mesh?

    Have you a solution for me? Thanks to you. Trees are beautiful. I want to use these in my game :)

    Another question : if i must buy Simple Lod, i merge all mesh of tree with them, how can the leaf and branch move with wind after merge?

    Ps: sorry for my english, i m french.


    EDIT :
    Finally I have by Simple Lod ;) Example with the tree "CurvyTrunk01" - i have lost 50 fps, and if i merge all mesh with simple lod, i have lost .. nothing :))
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016
  15. Hellhound_01

    Hellhound_01

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    @asimov99 Do you use the tree as game object or unity tree build-in instance?

    I've done a simple test today in the morning before I've gone to work. I figured out that the problem also exist with pure unity terrain and is not a Map Magic compatibility problem. I've generated a simple flat terrain and add a tree prefab 1000 times. Any object lies on the flat terrain, it looks like the 3ds Max rotation settings are used and any transformation value I set by Unity is ignored.

    There is also a problem with the sub-meshes. I think I've to bake them to one single mesh otherwise the sub-meshes are gone and only the main mesh (trunk) is rendered.

    Anything looks like an old problem, other user have a while ago with blender imports: http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/tree-no-valid-mesh-renderer.29013/.

    I've to check this out in the evening.
     
  16. asimov99

    asimov99

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    Hi @Hellhound_01

    Just put one prefab CurvyTrunk01 as game object in the scene, and FPS fall ... Apply Merge Mesh with Simple Lod on Gameobject, and FPS increase...

    For Speedtree, i used as tree build-in instance and the game was very slow so i think i will use ForestVision with SimpleLod and put gameobject one by one on my terrain...

    EDIT : In ForestVision, it's possible to have a Bark_Base_Color texture in 2048, because actually, all trunk texture are 512 .... :/
     
  17. asimov99

    asimov99

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    Hi

    One problem with all prefabs, there are rotate in 90 on axe x, it's impossible to use with the Terrain ... :/ because create an empty object with good rotate and put the tree inside not working for use this prefab as tree with the unity terrain.
     
  18. Hellhound_01

    Hellhound_01

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    I've read several threads at midday break about unity tree import problems. As mcbauer mentioned, those rotation comes from 3ds max exports of the origin meshes. It's look like Unity use those values at tree instance import and ignores manual settings ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016
  19. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    So what I'm going to do.....and bare with me as this is going to be a lot of work and the update is going to take a while...

    1). I'm going to make a new batch of pre-made trees, exported from Max, which will be ready for Terrain painting. These trees will have to use the Nature/Soft Occlusion shader, instead of the ForestVision shader, as recommended to work the best. These trees will not be customizable obviously, but will give you plenty of trees that will be simple, and ready for the low res kind of background mesh painting requested.

    2). I will re-export all of my source meshes so they will have the correct rotational value expected, not the 90 degree offset version. This in turn is going to cause all of the current prefabs to become jacked up so I will need to go in and re-offset those prefabs back to where they were so everything will be as it was--alignmentwise.

    3) I currently have Mesh Baker and I have collapsed the foliage and trunk shader into one in order to successfully merge my trees into a single tree and lower draw calls. I will continue down this path and create optimized versions of my trees.

    4) I will investigate using Simple LOD to also help in the optimization role.
     
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  20. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    I'm interested in hearing what kind of increase you saw here. Are we talking 10 frame increase? 30 frame increase?
     
  21. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    What I meant by this is that since you are able to make these trees as detailed as you want, you can easily control the level of detail for your ultimate tree that will have LOD levels. You just need to make the LOD levels yourself.

    For example, say you want 3 LOD levels. The first level would be the highest poly prefab version. Then you make a copy of that prefab, remove half of the detail ( getting rid of vines, extra branches, etc). Then make a copy of that prefab, and remove half of what's left (maybe you just have the trunk and a single large branch at this point?).

    Now you have 3 different prefabs, representing 3 different LOD levels.

    Then all you have to do is add those 3 levels using the LOD Group tool that comes with Unity.

    it might not be as easy as 1 or 2 mouse clicks, but it is still an easy process.
     
  22. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    I will submit the next version this weekend which will contain the new collapsed shader, so now there is only one shader needed for both trunks and foliage.

    It will also contain a few example scenes.
     
  23. asimov99

    asimov99

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    Hi @mcbauer

    Thanks for your response. Now i have SimpleLod + MeshBrush so no problem.

    But i think you will do create different levels of mesh (low, medium, high) and just patch the rotate problem.
    And trunk texture to 2048... So actually, i use the speedtree trunk texture in your prefab...

    Your asset is very good. thanks
     
  24. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    I bought Simple LOD and it is very useful. This will make my life easier for sure.

    Next update will contain optimized versions of each tree.

    For example, my "Mapley tree" started with around 103 setpass calls, and its now down to 10. That is way easier to use than Meshbaker for sure.
     
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  25. asimov99

    asimov99

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    Yes, your asset + Simple Lod is very powerfull !
    And now, i have a small problem, create a billboard when the camera is very far... Simple Lod do not do this ...
     
  26. Hellhound_01

    Hellhound_01

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    @mcbauer Thanks for your support offer. I think those changes will boost up your great asset. I am looking forward to test it out :)

    This should be solved if the rotation issue is gone and we could use the prefabs as Unity build-in trees. Correct me if I'm wrong, but normally Unity should generate the LOD levels and the required billboard for your prefab dynamically at import.

    This is one of the reason why I have done a fallback from game objects to build-in trees. I've figured out, that I got a performance boost of 20-30 FPS when I use the build-in trees instead of game objects. On the other hand you have
    unfortunately some cons if you use build-in trees. Those trees are part of the terrain, if you want to perform some special effects you have to do a handstand to got those things working :(

    BTW: I actually try to implement a seasonal change at run-time. Has anyone an idea how I could change from one seasonal prefab to another in a fluent way? If I only change the prefab on a single tree, this change is to sudden. Any idea is appreciated.
     
  27. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    You are correct @Hellhound_01 in regards to using trees with terrain.

    I've always said that ForestVision, as my goal, was never to create trees that are super high performing and game ready. The goal was always to give people a tool that they can use to create "Hero" trees that actually can become focal points of their level, or as high resolution backdrops for rendered animations.

    These next few releases should go a long way to remove that limitation.

    Going through my current library of trees, I have managed to create optimized versions of each with the average draw call count being 7. I need to look into creating my own version of Simple LOD as that would be a nice addition to my system....
     
  28. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    Good luck with this one in regards to swapping the prefabs. However, a work around that I would recommend would be to Lerp the color tint of the foliage, this will create the appearance of the change in colors on the leaves. Then Lerp the Alpha cutoff amount, as this will eventually remove the leaves all together. Add in a particle effect showing leaves blowing off the tree and you'd have a pretty believeable seasonal transition. Only thing you would want to do would be to use some of the empty branch images I supplied and add those to your trees so that once all the leaves are gone, you would be left with visible empty branches. As it stands now you wouldn't have enough empties to make for a convincing winter version of the tree.
     
  29. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    The way I would recommend to create the billboard yourself would be to use a screen capturing tool, to create a snapshot of your tree in the level, then apply this image to a plane, and use it as the final LOD. Most screen capturing plugins provide for alpha channels so a good PNG file would provide what you needed.
     
  30. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    I am submitting this update tonight or maybe tomorrow, but it's basically ready to go.

    Includes:

    1) All tree prefabs now have an optimized version which has been collapsed down to under 10 draw calls for each tree. Most are down to 6-7 draw calls. They will be found in the "08 Optimized" directory you already have.

    2) New collapsed ForestVision shader, which contains both the FV_Foliage Shader, and the FV_Trunk shader. One shader to rule them all....

    3) ForestVisionShader also finally includes a Snow element which displaces the mesh as it builds. Renders on top of all elements so your foliage and trunks will accumulate snow as desired.


    Next steps:

    1) re-export all meshes so they will have proper zeroed out rotations which will allow everyone to paint these trees (the optimized versions, or the source meshes that is....) on Unity Terrains.

    2) Create sample scenes with these assets.

    3) Developing a ForestVision Image Effect pack which will offer just some of the basic things I like to use in my renders. DOF, Contrast enhance, Anti-aliasing, as well as some extras I've always wanted.

    4) Include a screen shot capture tool

    5) Try to tackle writing my own Simple LOD tool. This was a very useful tool and I can see how helpful it would be to have something like this as a part of ForesetVision.
     
  31. asimov99

    asimov99

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    Thanks @mcbauer for the next version!!!
    Very good job.

    I'm waiting the next step with good rotate for use your tree in terrain. Unity create billboard for terrain trees..

    Thanks for your work!
     
  32. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    This is going to be a rather tedious task, but I will try to get it done as quickly as possible.
     
  33. asimov99

    asimov99

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    Yes but after, your asset will be game ready :))
     
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  34. Hellhound_01

    Hellhound_01

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    There remains for me the spit away! Thousand thanks @mcbauer for the next version. Excellent work, keep on going! I can not wait any longer to see your trees on Map Magic generated terrain :cool:
     
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  35. Hellhound_01

    Hellhound_01

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    Thanks for your advise. Your work around is exactly what I've done in a simple test with some trees. This looks nice for the broad-leaved trees, but conifers are quite different. Actually I rack my brain how I could give them a frozen touch and/or cover them with some snow like you have done (this should be also happen on the bare trees after leaf removement).
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
  36. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    The new ForestVision shader snow element will cover everything with snow and should work for what you want. I need to spend some time really tweaking the controls for the snow so that I could create frost and snow separately. But that will have to wait.

    I'm also working on implementing a global control so that you can affect all of my shaders in your level that have a snow parameter. Then eventually a local control so you will be able to make a Game Object the controller, and wherever it goes, snow will follow. I'm a bit ambitious but I think I'll get it to work.
     
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  37. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    So I have the solution for the -90 degree offset on the mesh rotation, but now I'm going to have to remake all of the trees and that is going to take forever. What I'm going to do instead is build new trees instead of re-making the old ones.
     
  38. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    I think I'm going to hold off on pushing up the update until I get the mesh rotations done. That way it'll be a complete update, not part 1 of 2.
     
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  39. Hellhound_01

    Hellhound_01

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    Your community support is top notch! Do not rush your update, we know it's a lot of work. Personally I prefer to wait a bit and get a well designed asset without rough edges. Top work, keep on going!
     
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  40. hakankaraduman

    hakankaraduman

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    I am really curious about this asset but still no video of workflow :(
     
  41. Hellhound_01

    Hellhound_01

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    @hakankaraduman Just grab the free LITE version of this asset at store. It's a simple demo version with full functionallity. Just try it out and get a feeling of the awesome full version.
     
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  42. hakankaraduman

    hakankaraduman

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    thanks, didn't know there was a lite version
     
  43. Hellhound_01

    Hellhound_01

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    You are welcome. I wish more asset developers would offer a Lite version. I don't like to buy a pig in a poke.
     
  44. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    I have all of the meshes re-exported so they are all ready to be painted on terrains now.

    At this point, I'm seriously trying to decide if it's worth my time to re-make the old trees. They are basically all destroyed now that their meshes have new orientations. All of the old trees are zeroed out and collapsed down to be as optimized as possible, so they are still there, they are just not full prefabs anymore. I feel like it's not worth my time to go back and re-make old things. I may just upload the update as is and just make a few new trees.

    Thoughts?
     
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  45. Hellhound_01

    Hellhound_01

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    @mcbauer I fully understand that your time is limited. Personally I would make the old trees die and set the focus on the new things are coming. Maybe this community could help you, if we could create and share new prefabs of those and new trees.
     
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  46. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    That was my thought too.

    I'm going to put together a sample scene which will contain all of the optimized trees, and maybe a single new tree, and then I'm going to push it up.

    I'm about to move to another state so my ability to work on this over the next few weeks is going to be very limited. I'd like to get this update out to everyone before I go offline.
     
  47. asimov99

    asimov99

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    oh @mcbauer i am very impatient to download the optimised trees compatible with terrain ^^

    THX :)
     
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  48. mcbauer

    mcbauer

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    They definitely work with terrain now :)
     
  49. Hellhound_01

    Hellhound_01

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    I can only agree here and I am looking forward to test it out :). Thanks @mcbauer for your great support and have a stress-free, happy move ...
     
  50. asimov99

    asimov99

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    @mcbauer have you a date for the new release ??? i am very impatient !!! :)

    ps : on the asset store, the url link for the forum is incorrect.