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forced paid update rant...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by imgumby, Sep 11, 2018.

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  1. imgumby

    imgumby

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    https://unity3d.com/legal/as_provider
    Let me say right off.I'm a hobbyist that's retired from a business that required me to interpret and argue contractual agreements and understand that things can be interpreted differently by separate people if the language isn't concise but in this case things are pretty clear ,to me anyway.There's a metric to be met before you can successfully apply for a paid "update" .I don't believe those have been met in recent cases where a paid update is required by the developer if I want my project to stay current with all the other interstitial assets used in it.

    ..I've noticed as of late a couple developers asking for update fees on mainly editor extensions and templates which in truth are about as finished as Windows 10 when we buy them....constantly being updated and fine tuned to what is hopefully a fully finished product.Probably the impetus for section 9 in the above linked contract to begin with.I imagine it would be hard to sell products for an ever changing platform if you didn't promise the end customer free updates.I know this will likely be the death knell for my purchases of script based assets on sale for good.From now on only buying what I can use within a week as it'll probably be obsolete by then due to Unity API changes unless I pay to keep it current of course.
    One in particular, it appears that I need to spend at least another $150 on top of my original purchases totaling ~$300 to consolidate 2 assets that will be deprecated soon only to get what a new buyer can have for $180...or update them individually for a fee and still spend more than the new customer....another sticker in my socks...besides being literally forced to pay for an update if we want to keep things current why are we as long term customers being punished by having to pay more than a new customer when they do approve these updates ? I used to own a small business with hundreds of regular customers and would never think to gut my loyal existing customers in favor of someone new...I mean c'mon...I'd be willing to pay a small fee to consolidate the 2 but $150 or more is simply too steep....If I could get a refund on all of them and repurchase, I would in a heart beat and I'd save a ton of money.Another has bought out numerous assets recently and I suspect we'll have to buy updates to them as well even though the previous owner happily complied with the contract and gave free updates for years.The new owner has said that free updates no longer fit his business model and has set the tone by charging for an update already.
    Paid "upgrades" are allowed per the contract but it's very clear on what constitutes a valid paid upgrade and what's an update.I've paid for an upgrade before..Malbers HAP comes to mind when he tripled the number of horses and added a boat load of extra functionality that was never promised.I think there's even a carriage in there now ? However I draw the line at paying for bug fixes or enhancing functionality that's part of the products intended core essence or simply an update that leads to a whole version number change..
    I feel we as buyers of these assets do so with the knowledge that the Unity Providers contract will keep the developers updating their works in progress for free while Unity changes it's API every other week.Is it fair to the developers that chose to abide by that contract when they signed on as sellers.? I can't answer that, but I'm sure they all read it before signing on the virtual dotted line. All I know is I have purchased more assets than I care to admit from developers that have been giving me great service and free updates to their products per the contract for years now.If the idea of giving free updates suddenly no longer appeals to you as a developer because you bought out other assets that were previously upgraded for free and need to recoup all your cash NOW on our backs..or fails to fit your new business model you can either petition Unity to change their contract or use Patreon or something where you can just sell and abandon your wares or charge people whatever you want for each update.At least you won't be in breach of the UAS contract.
    Honestly..I'm not sure I have absolute faith in the UAS team now that does the vetting.Coming from where I do professionally I can spot conflict of interest a 1000 yds away.I suspect they are more than happy to start approving paid updates,particularly from high profile earners as they get 30% off the top.....robbery if you ask me as they've let some real dogs slip through that failed instantly leaving the end users holding the bag.Any one else buy "Ultimate Survival" and wishing there was some way to get refunded for that failed attempt at a template?? $50 gone...because I trusted the developer to produce and the UAS to protect me from fraudsters like that by thoroughly checking that an asset works 100% before approving it, but then the editor extensions/templates section of the store would probably be a ghost town...Ultimate Survival never did and is abandonware now...
    So...whew...that was a lot of words..sorry...but please read the contract...I recommend asking the developer that you intend to purchase that expensive asset from if his plans for the future include forcing paid updates to keep your project current and vote with your pocket book if that doesn't seem right.It's not like there aren't multiple choices out there and some developers even (needlessly) cite "free updates for life" in their product descriptions (Walled City Infotech for one) despite it being clear in their contract.It does sound like a good selling point though..certainly sucked me in for too long in at least a couple of cases now.
    I won't be replying or even checking this thread as I know there'll be a 1/2 dozen fan boys in here defending their poor starving and under appreciated developers or making snide defamatory remarks and I have neither the time nor desire to debate each and every one of them.If the developers weren't making money with the current system they wouldn't be here.They are paid for their work in advance imo since none are ever completely finished or they all wouldn't need constant updates. My case is set out..the documents are there for you to read and make your own informed decision.My intent is only to illuminate.
    https://unity3d.com/legal/as_provider
    Good Luck in all your endeavors
    End of transmission.
    Me
     
  2. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Quoting the important part so y'all know not to waste your time here.
     
    elmar1028, Meltdown, Tzan and 11 others like this.
  3. LaneFox

    LaneFox

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    The asset store sells licenses to products. You get free updates to any changes to that product under your license. If the publisher makes a new product that you don't have a license to then you have no rights to it. New product, new license.
     
    AdamGoodrich likes this.
  4. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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  5. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    Aye, and I presume that the Asset Store staff will be exercising some reasonable judgement about what constitutes an "update" vs what can be considered a new product. Looking at the first of @Ryiah's links, if Gaia 2 provides significant stuff that Gaia 1 didn't then charging for the upgrade seems perfectly reasonable.

    What is unreasonable is expecting that people keep working on stuff and give you their work for free past standard maintenance and support.

    You're not being "forced" to do anything. "Keep[ing] things current" is a choice that you're making that has a cost.

    For what it's worth, I don't generally "keep things current" and it has nothing to do with the financial cost. I integrate stuff, implement whatever we needed to do with it, and then leave it alone unless we run into problems.

    Blatant exaggeration aside, there's a huge difference between maintenance updates as you describe here, and new major versions of a piece of software which you're complaining about behind link #1.
     
    Che4Cuba and Ryiah like this.
  6. Joe-Censored

    Joe-Censored

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    Heaven forbid a developer charging money for significant improvements to a product.
     
  7. Antony-Blackett

    Antony-Blackett

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    I think his main beef is the upgrade costs are the same as buying it again, where as he feels as a loyal customer he should get a discount on the upgrade. I somewhat agree with that reasoning but then again, if a business needs to charge what they charge to stay afloat, then that's the cost of the asset. Not much can be done.
     
    Ryiah and angrypenguin like this.
  8. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    I think his reasoning is ridiculous unless he bought like... less than 30 days before the new product came out and the old product was deprecated. The thing is, devs need to eat.
     
    Whippets likes this.
  9. Antony-Blackett

    Antony-Blackett

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    I agree, Devs do need to eat, I'm not taking sides.

    There's obviously a potential long term cost to not providing a discount or incentive to loyal customers as demonstrated by the OP. Customer good will goes a long way to getting repeat purchases and recommendations. It's a fine balance and I hope all devs are considering that when they update assets.
     
    Ryiah, LaneFox and angrypenguin like this.
  10. ThermodynamicsMakesMeHot

    ThermodynamicsMakesMeHot

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    Nothing wrong with charging a reasonable upgrade fee.

    There is however a problem when publishers come in all happy and saying whatever they can to increase sales and get everyone to buy into their promises and then they decide later that its too much work or they need more money to actually do what they said because they did not know how hard it would be or whatever excuse....

    Those that mislead people to boost their sales should have their publishing rights revoked. I get people can change their minds but that is just a forum of consumer fraud.

    Lots of people have said on here before...

    Never buy assets based on what the publisher says...

    It's a sad but hard truth when dealing with Assets....Buyer Beware.
     
    Socrates likes this.
  11. ThermodynamicsMakesMeHot

    ThermodynamicsMakesMeHot

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    Publishers should reward those loyal and helped them build up their asset business, not look at them as a cash grab against their customer base.

    When an update seems and feels more like a Tax then a benefit cut your losses.
     
  12. Amon

    Amon

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    Developing games as a hobbyist/pro will cost money. Developers of assets which once purchased save you an incredible amount of work and time costs money. Keeping huge assets like Gaia updated, which further saves you time, costs money.

    Time is money. The price you pay for an asset is punitive to the cost you would have incurred had you tried to code it yourself. You probably already thought of that because you went and bought the assets.
     
    AdamGoodrich, Ryiah, Kiwasi and 2 others like this.
  13. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Were we really expecting him to hold up to that statement? Just about everyone who makes it in this section of the forums eventually caves and reads the responses their statements generate and the OP is no exception. Logging in today I saw he had private messaged me with mention of my post showing he has in fact read the responses.
     
  14. Amon

    Amon

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    Ya, I knew straight away when the OP commented stating:

    "I won't be replying or even checking this thread"

    That he would more than likely be refreshing his browser every 2 minutes.
     
  15. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    I kinda more meant in the sense that it's not worth engaging because this sort of person never changes their mind.

    Something driven home even further by your research into their posting habits in the third post here :v
     
  16. imgumby

    imgumby

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    Dear Riyah..I checked in then to make sure that I hadn't broken any rules and found exactly what I expected....love that you reported my PM as an "unsolicited message" which apparently means sending anyone a PM is a grievous offense...so wonderful of you to take the time...
    glad all of you (all 3 of you) are happy to support a dev who is clearly voiding the contract...look forward to paying for updates to gaia....gena2 (gena 1 deprecated already as predicted ) ...pegasus.....CTS.....Pathfinder....all of Sectr unless it just gets absorbed by gaia as the promised multi-tile update to gaia which should be free but...you know...that pesky sellers agreement just keeps getting in the way .So off it goes to deprecation land and no free updates so gaia just keeps getting more expensive...next....a subscription plan.....oops...dang now PW's going to run with that no doubt...
    https://unity3d.com/legal/as_provider
    good luck....
     
  17. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Hey remember when you said you weren't going to reply or even read this thread? Good times.
     
    Amon and chiapet1021 like this.
  18. imgumby

    imgumby

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    hey..remember when sellers would honor their contractual agreements ?..good times...Remember when adults talked without inserting snide remarks (probably not) ?? ...so far all you have is emotional opinions.....I on the other hand have a written contract...guess which holds up in arbitration ??...
    https://unity3d.com/legal/as_provider
    9. Provider's Upgrades of Assets
    9.1

    Provider agrees that Provider will, at no cost to Customers and Unity, supply via the Unity Asset Store any upgrades or otherwise updated versions of all Assets that a Customer has acquired from the Unity Asset Store. For the avoidance of doubt, this does also apply to any Asset that has been distributed for free via the Unity Asset Store.
    ///////////////////////////////////////
    end of transmission...
     
  19. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Reporting a post only sends it to a moderation queue with the comment attached. It's up to the moderators to decide what it qualifies for. Considering the contents of the post it's fairly safe to say you didn't have a good reason to send it. You most likely just didn't want to finally cave and admit here that you were actively watching this thread so you instead PMed me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
    Amon and Socrates like this.
  20. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    Closing thread. Op on timeout for inappropriate behavior. Trolling is not acceptable.
     
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