For people who want to build MMORPGs

These guys explain why you shouldnt make another MMO...

Extra Credits teaches you everything concerning games from developer point of view such as microtransactions, future of gaming etc.

Hope you'll like them

 

Nice one.

 

That was good, enjoyed it thanks.

 

explained perfectly......

 

I got bored when they started saying MMO's cost 60 to 100 million... err fact check please?

 

In other words, why on Earth would you make another MMO if hundreds of million players prefer World of Warcraft, Diablo III or Eve Online?

Gamers don't play several MMO games at once!

Making an MMO is different from making a normal game. Why? Because you have a competition with companies like Blizzard. Once they get hardcore gamers, it would be difficult to get them on your MMO game!

I am addressing to people who want to make next MMORPG WoW killer (which can be found in Collaboration section)

 

@elmar1028 you seem to be saying that since there are giants in the industry, why bother? Problem is, this is a very short sighted and narrow view.

• If you're not Blizzard, don't make a MMO.
• If you're not EA don't make a Sports Game.
• If you're not Activision, don't make a FPS.
• If you're not King, don't make a Casual Game.

Which is plain stupid, since I've played *great* games made in all those genre's by much smaller players - down to even single man teams.

It's even more ridiculous if you apply the logic more broadly.

• If you're not Einstein, don't be a Physicist.
• If you're not Cameron don't make a Film.
• If you're not Gandhi, don't Protest.
• If you're not Flemming, don't invent Pharmaceuticals.

There are greats in every field, but that doesn't mean they own the market or that today's underdog can't become tomorrow's Giant.

The question I have, is what message are you sending? Cause I'd much rather show people the way to success, rather than shroud it in doubt, ignorance and fear.

 

Anti-fact check please? I'm genuinely interested in a competitive MMO made on a small budget.

(Incase you're wondering I don't doubt it's possible to make a MMO on a small budget but to market it and draw a user base? Probably impossible without some seriously awesome design)

 

There are *dozens*, I'd take a look at online arcades (like Kongregate). Here's one I played for a while years ago, that uses Unity: https://unity3d.com/showcase/case-stories/creakycorpse-deadfrontier

Then of course there is how I got introduced into MMO's - Browser Based Games (e.g. Ogame). Not 3D, not millions of dollars in content, yet very popular.

The key is to open your eyes and mind, not close it. Spielberg didn't become a billion dollar director overnight, he started off filming his friends run over planks that had dust on the other end to simulate explosions!

 

Well...
MMO is different from other genres because gamers stick to one of the MMOs for quite a long time. They won't play any other game.

The message I am sending is not for you. It's for people who want to make another MMORPG!

And also Extra Credits is a good YouTube channel which is very useful. Just check out their other videos.

 

It took Edison 3000 attempts before he invented the lightbulb.

Currently, all I'm hearing from you is one, demonstrably false, excuse.

This is my message to you, and to anyone who has a dream. Don't listen to excuses from those who say, look at those who do.

 

Look at those browser based MMOs. Do they look like WoW? No!
The only way to compete in that space is to make the game of another genre like puzzle based or platformed etc.

Hundreds of people had a dream and only 1% actually make MMO. And more than half of them die because they aimed to kill WoW.

How come story about Einstein related to what I am trying to say? What I am trying to say that its almost impossible to survive in an industry when it comes to an MMO.

You have a dream! Follow it!

 

I agree with npsf3000. People should pursue MMO's if they want to. However, they should be aware that in most cases the sheer scope of an MMO is way too much for a single developer or small team to handle.

Does this mean it's impossible? No. But if you're a small developer, practically speaking, you should not try to make an MMO. But this does not apply to ALL small developers in ALL cases.

Also, if it's what you really want to do, do it! But you should have a general idea of how much it takes to make an MMO first -- and make a decision carefully.

 

Maybe the reason people don't play smaller indie MMOs is because they are all trying to emulate the big games out there, like WoW. If given a choice between a big WoW or a small WoW, those that want a huge land mass with hundreds of thousands of fellow players will choose WoW.

Is there a niche for non-WoW-like MMO's? I have friends who play nothing but the smaller more niche games, most of them multiplayer/MMOs. I love games where I can play with other people but I wouldn't play WoW or a game like WoW if someone paid me to do so! I just don't like that sort of leveling/class/killing over and over again type game.

I also saw a comment above about "competitive" mmos. A niche game that appeals to a small subset of players is not going to be competitive with WoW, nor should the indie developer making the game expect it to be so. MMO's are not all the same, anymore than a single player game is all the same. Some focus on RTS, some focus on RPG, some have a niche all there own such as a role playing MMO or one that focuses on community and social activities. Some survive in their small corner of the world for years, but because they don't compete with WoW, they are not noticed.

I could give the same advice about the zombie survival games or the sports games or pretty much every game-style that is mass produced by huge companies to attract a wide spectrum of players. Unless you have big money, you can't compete. Your best bet is to come up with something different that sets you apart, something unique. You may not have as many sales as the big guys but you may build a loyal following. Unfortunately, I see people telling others not to even attempt to make a specific type of game because it won't compete with the AAA games....I don't get it. Then why are you here making games at all? LOL

Why do so many spend so much time telling other people what not to do? Weird.

 

At its height, WoW had about 10 million accounts. Out of an estimated 200 million gamers in the US alone. The numbers say that there is plenty of room in the industry for an indie developer courting only tens or hundreds of thousands of subscribers.

Would I suggest an MMO as the ideal game for an indie team? Not really, but if it's your dream, follow it.

 

Don't know where you heard that. I also don't know what point you were trying to make.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Edison#Electric_light

 

Let me just spin this ever so slightly so that just about all of us will agree with it.

• If you aren't Blizzard, don't copy WoW. You'll never make a percent of it's content.
• If you aren't EA, don't copy Madden. You'll never get a percent of it's complexities.
• If you aren't Activision, don't copy CoD. You'll never put in a percent of it's qualities.

As much as people bash AAA games, people still underestimate their production value and think it's possible to come close to their quality without pouring in comparable costs.

 

You mean make a base game and over the years only release very minor additions while charging full price?

 

Lol EA actually did that with FIFA 2013. Same like 2012!

https://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/ea-blasted-selling-same-fifa-game-two-years-184754450.html

 

Blizzard put them to publish this crap... Joke.

 

I play;

• Terra Rising
• Dragon Nest

That's TWO MMORPG games in my life so far.
Sometimes I check new MMO like Royal Quest and etc from Steam or mmorpg.com.

I don't play any Blizzard MMO.

StarCraft is online multiplayer games, but I don't think that's Massively Multiplayer Online games.

Beside MASSIVELY multiplayer games, you can always try the sub-niche (maybe) which is a simple online multiplayer games.

 

His voice annoys the hell out of me but he speaks the truth

 

Forget mmo rpg, try these:

A nice balance of investment-return.

 

Do me a small favor. Maybe spend 5 mins looking it up? Or just watch National Treasure - it's got a nice version.

There's nothing magical about the scope of WoW, complexities of Madden or 'qualities' of CoD. They were all made by man, and can be bettered by man. If someone truly wants to best them I say go for it! Don't aim to be 1% of WoW, aim to be 1000%!

Oh, but I do agree it's generally better to invent your own, rather than just copying.

Just over 100 years ago, manned, powered flight was unheard of. Now we have private citizens building space companies, supplying International Space Stations and aiming to get humanity to Mars. Imagine what a game developer could do!

 

To be precise, it took him 3,000 attempts to invent a practical light bulb. Early attempts at the light bulb were impractical because they had short lifespans, were expensive to manufacture, and used a lot of power to run.

 

A swing and a miss. Alright let me try this again.

Can the Eiffel Tower be built by one person in any reasonable time frame? Not at this point, but modern equipment has probably adjusted the number of hands needed to be less than it originally was.

So, why would this be different for games? Unless you know of a magical substance that makes indies a million times more productive than coffee, you won't mystically overturn a modern product of millions of man hours spent with a few thousand. Trying to beat them at their own game (ba da tish), without too many risks, isn't something that can be done without a comparable investment.


We are at a point now where standing out is far more important though. For the indie scene, a thousand crappy games made is fine so long as at least one of them goes supernova.

 

Correct. That doesn't mean that the Eiffel tower wasn't built, or that somebody couldn't imagine building something of that scale and succeeding (see Dubai).

I'm not arguing it is, in fact I used examples in other fields earlier.

I have two comments:

1) I've never argued that you'll magically require few hours. If it was to hypothetically take 1 million man hours, then that's not an impossible goal - projects are built regularly that use that kind of resource.

2) While it's not required (see 1), there are plenty of opportunities to reduce the hours needed in a project. For example, with WoW, I suspect a huge portion of those hours was optimising content and code for platforms that are now grossly outdated. Huge room for competitive advantage. Then chuck in a new paradigm, e.g. procedural, scanned, AI or user content generation and suddenly what was millions of man hours might be orders of magnitude less.

Take a look at MineCraft, look at what was done.

 

So you're saying that if it's not a WoW clone you shouldn't make an MMO? Quite honestly, that explains why you don't think a low-budget MMO can compete - you're excluding anything that doesn't take WoW head on. That's like saying that no action game should be made unless it's directly competing with CoD, and ignoring all of the many, very successful action games that aren't war-themed FPSs.

If you're going to be David in a fight against Goliath, learn to behave like the David of legend. David won specifically because he didn't take Goliath head on in strength-based combat. He won before the fight even started by analysing the situation and taking a novel, unexpected approach. As a result, a brawler who stood unmatched in melee combat fell in seconds to a skirmisher's sling.

You don't compete in business by making an inferior product and, no judgement on your talent, if you're going head to head against WoW or CoD or NFS or StarCraft on a small budget, that's what you're doing. Those guys have massive budgets, huge teams, decades of experience and a very strong existing brand. Which of those things do you have? In the eyes of a customer, if you go head to head then how are you going to be anything other than an inferior imitation? If you have a solid answer to that question then go for it, but realise that it's already a space crowded with others and the road is scattered with the fallen.

On the other hand, you could set yourself apart by making something unique, that's still an MMO/Action/Racer/RTS/etc. but isn't trying to be WoW/CoD/NFS/StarCraft/etc. Then you're not an inferior imitation, you're your own thing, judged on your own merits.