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Feedback Wanted: Scriptable Render Pipelines

Discussion in 'Graphics Experimental Previews' started by Tim-C, May 9, 2017.

  1. N00MKRAD

    N00MKRAD

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    Read it up, they documented a lot of it.

    For example, LW RP only supports a single shadow casting light.
    Also, no light cookies, no point light shadows, no TTA, no SSR, no deffered rendering, max 8 pixel lights.
     
    konsic likes this.
  2. konsic

    konsic

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    Thanks. Is real time global illumination in the roadmap for Unity 2018 ?
     
  3. N00MKRAD

    N00MKRAD

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    Yes, but I'm not sure if they are talking about Voxel/cone tracing or some other tech.
     
  4. f1ac

    f1ac

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    I hope it will be raytracing using recentrly announced DirectX DXR, Unity is in the list of studios "are already planning to integrate DXR support into their games and engines". https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/directx/2018/03/19/announcing-microsoft-directx-raytracing/
    Though I doubt it will be realtime with current hardware :) But I hope at least for some effects like shadows/reflections/ao.
     
    antey3064 likes this.
  5. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Hi,

    Regarding shadows and HD render pipeline:

    During the transition to HD from builtin, I'm finding it hard to achieve the same performance and look as builtin.

    With builtin I have max distance set to 30, and it's stable as hell yet soft and diffuse yet with only one cascade. This is what I want - it is pixar-like and blends to baked lightmap very early, and is super high perf and looks fantastic - and is set to "medium" res. Real sweet spot stuff.

    A large part of why this looks good is the blending with stable fit I believe. This was improved not so long ago, perhaps Percentage Closer Filtering (PCF) during 2017.1.

    I can't achieve it on HD. Will HD receive further work to be stable/great for non cascade scenarios above? Currently it falls short of builtin for non cascade low res soft / diffuse looks.

    We are OK with:
    • range of 30
    • blending to baked lightmap
    • pcf / medium resolution / stable fit
    • no cascades
    = brilliant. I can't do it on HD though. Is it lack of PCF? Tried everything I could find. I want the softer look with awesome perf compromise, not pin sharp realism - any advice?
     
  6. freedomize

    freedomize

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    How big is the difference in performance between HDRP and builtin pipeline (in your case)? I wanted to upgrade my project to HDRP because I heard that HDRP has better performance on consoles (PS4 / XB1). Do you think it's worth to move on to HDRP if the new features (SSS, Layered Materials etc.) will not be used in the project?
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2018
  7. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    I am not seeing a performance benefit at the moment because we aren't yet fully exploring what HD can do, and we designed out the need to have many realtime lights... plus went heavily baked. Our plan was 60fps on consoles with builtin. This is doable with care.

    Problem is HD is pretty nice looking so we're exploring going to it ourselves. So far I feel like that HD scales better than builtin, it can handle beefier tasks with more visual quality. But that might not be what everyone needs.
     
  8. id0

    id0

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    HDRP is much faster then legacy render if you use realtime light or GI, because all light and shadows system in HDRP was completely rewritten. But for now it still have lot of bugs, because is only beta.
     
    freedomize likes this.
  9. f1ac

    f1ac

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    I've managed to port my custom procedural sky to HDRP, everything seems to be great. One issue I have found is that there is no possibility to add decoration/informational messages to profile settings, tooltips work fine though :)
    Capture18.1.PNG
     
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  10. GameDevCouple_I

    GameDevCouple_I

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    This, our initial research has shown that the variance between "peaks" are lower overall (less variance between the lowest and highest performance versus quality than on built in). This ofcourse is down to each project however, but with our assets its great.
     
  11. Jokerminator

    Jokerminator

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    I just upgraded my project from 2017.3 to 2018.1b12 and everything works great.. but I really can't find the material upgrader Edit -> Render Pipeline -> Upgrade -> Lightweight -> Upgrade Project Materials mentioned here: https://blogs.unity3d.com/2018/02/2...er-pipeline-optimizing-real-time-performance/

    I thought I just open my project in 2018.1, press the upgrade button and everything works. Lightweight Unity style.
    No ? :eek:

    EDIT: Found the answer here: Feedback Wanted: Lightweight Render Pipeline
    It also works for an old project.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  12. Grimreaper358

    Grimreaper358

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    @Jokerminator You need to install the render pipeline you want to work with first (You can do this from the Package Manager Window > Package Manager > All [Pipeline you want to use]), then you will have to option to upgrade materials. The Lightweight Pipeline will come with both Post-Processing V2 and Shader Graph so no need to install those separately. The High Definition Pipeline will include only Post Processing V2 for now

    upload_2018-3-27_11-22-2.png
     
    tinyant likes this.
  13. SebLagarde

    SebLagarde

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    This is something that we pay a lot of attention and are well aware. Builtin Unity use vertex normal shadow bias, which is something that we chose to not do the same way for HD (normal bias on shadow caster is expensive). However due to our new architecture, we currently use normal map bias for shadow which is of a lower quality. We have try to expose various shadow bias control (normal and view bias, edge fix bias, sample bias). This may help you to find good settings. The kernel filter can also be configure in code, (but we haven't documentation for now :( ). Default is Tent3x3PCF. Chose for performance/Quality ratio.

    HD use same stable fit cascade shadow than builtin and handle transition more correctly.

    We hope that current trouble are due to some kind of bad default settings and try to improve the situation.
     
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  14. SebLagarde

    SebLagarde

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    Short answer: Nothing started for this year :) But everything is on the roadmap.
     
  15. SebLagarde

    SebLagarde

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    Default terrain is not supported in HD for now. There is possibility to do some hack to make it work, but we will not support it officialy in its current state. Of course there is a plan for terrain in the future.
     
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  16. SebLagarde

    SebLagarde

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    yes there is. Naughty dog trick from Siggraph 2017
     
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  17. SebLagarde

    SebLagarde

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    VR will not be available before 2018.3
     
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  18. SebLagarde

    SebLagarde

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    I don't recommend anyone shipping this year or who have a project already in production to move to HD. HD is for project that start its pre-production now. It is of high risk, experimental, no solution for lit particles or terrain or VR (yet), XBoxOne perf issue etc...
     
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  19. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Thanks Seb, I have resolved the shadows, they're acting much better now, had to tinker as you suggested.
     
  20. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    Hi

    Will custom vertex - fragment shaders work ok with both the lw and hq pipelines or will require changes ?

    Thanks
     
  21. Reanimate_L

    Reanimate_L

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    @SebLagarde
    is there any visual difference between forward and deferred in the current HDRP?
    any ups and down between each?
     
  22. Thrawn75

    Thrawn75

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    My suggestion: put a yellow sticker on your keyboard that reads:
    "Don't go home until you have documented what you've done".

    Please, document everything you think could contribute to better understand the changes/limitations.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2018
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  23. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Requires that it's a decided thing though, HDRP is very early. As a business, you would want to encourage the documentation team to throw away half their work? So maybe the docs team is a little busy or there's still so much work for that team.

    Source is the emergency doc: http://github.com/Unity-Technologies/ScriptableRenderPipeline

    Also good tip for "docs" is to read previous replies by the team for HD: https://forum.unity.com/search/9065458/

    Does not sound like it's even ready for docs yet. My recommendation is to follow Seb's posts and ask questions on the forums.
     
  24. Thrawn75

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    Of course I can understand teams are busy and they're doing their best. But everyone of us is, right? Now, the issue here is about documentation attitude. If you wait until everything is finished to start documenting, well, ... you will always leave documentation efforts either in hands of people that has not worked directly into the core - OR - you just do a minimal job because there's always some "code" related stuff that's more important or more appeal to you..

    Gosh, put someone next to Sebastian's chair to focus on editorial doco :)
     
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  25. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Well... it is not that hard to understand really. Very similar to builtin, just different but familiar input packing and vastly improved visuals. Hit Unity hard with questions don't be shy :p
     
  26. antoripa

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    Are you talking about using the HD or write a new shader for HD ?
     
  27. Thrawn75

    Thrawn75

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    Yes, pretty much that - they could start with something similar to “Writing Surface Shaders” section but with LWRP/HDRP approach and with special consideration/recommendations for migrating features (grabpass, geometry shaders, legacy buffers, ...).
     
  28. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Is it a shader from scratch within HD or SRP? since even unity docs are kind of lacking for all but the simplest for builtin, it's basically a case of waiting until the dust settles... @jbooth has had some success I think so you could search for his posts and answers on this too.

    Sorry I must have misunderstood.
     
  29. antoripa

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    Are you replying to me? ..
     
  30. sendspace

    sendspace

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    guys the srp decal doesn't move with the car even though its attached to it.
     
  31. elbows

    elbows

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    Sorry if this question is already clearly answered somewhere or obvious to people who have delved into HD pipeline plenty already...

    Whats the state of rectangular area lights in HD pipeline? Specifically, will we be able to apply a texture to these lights? I ask because when the area light technique was demonstrated via Unity Labs, some of the later visual examples used textures, although I know that wasnt included in the unity implementation that came with Adam demo.

    And to be honest I'm asking right now because it became clear at GDC that a competing engine is about to include this stuff in its next release, including texture support from what I can tell, and I think it will be a great shame if they beat Unity to it considering who did the original research.
     
  32. Grimreaper358

    Grimreaper358

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    The area lights don't support textures yet. So far Its only Spot, Point, and Direction Lights that supports this.
    It's just a matter of time though before this is all implemented, so you don't need to worry
     
    elbows likes this.
  33. elbows

    elbows

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    Meanwhile on the area lights research front, it sounds like they found a solution for shadows:

    https://eheitzresearch.wordpress.com/705-2/

    Dont worry, I dont expect those shadows to suddenly arrive in the HD pipeline soon. I only mention it here because I was just talking about the area lights here and so I was amused by the timing.
     
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  34. Gord10

    Gord10

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    Is there a reason not to use Package Manager for testing SRP in 2018.1?
     
  35. SunnySunshine

    SunnySunshine

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    Just adding my voice here regarding keeping surface shaders. While graphs are really cool and all, there are times where shader coding (especially as a coder) is more suitable. The surface shader system was very convenient.

    I noticed that objects rendered by unlit shaders (as in Create > Shader > Unlit) also don't seem to appear in the SRP pipeline (from github). Why is that? Are there any plans to make them work?

    Thanks!
     
    JoshuaAnderson likes this.
  36. Remy_Unity

    Remy_Unity

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    You can get SRP-Core and both HD and LW with Package Manager : upload_2018-4-3_14-12-54.png
     
  37. Gord10

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    I think loading them from the Package Manager is much easier.

    By the way, I have a problem. For Environment Lighting, I want to use Color as Source. But when the game starts, it switches back to Skybox. I couldn't manage changing Skybox Material, either, it is always "Skybox/Cubemap".
     
  38. Remy_Unity

    Remy_Unity

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    If you're using HDRP, the skybox settings are not the ones displayed in the lighting window. Here's what you can do to have a color as lighting source :
    • Add a Scene Setting object ( GameObject -> Rendering -> Scene Settings).
    • Add an "HDRI Sky" the volume component.
    • Assign a unicolor cubemap to this HDRP Sky.
    • Set the "Sky Type" of the "Visual Environment" to use the HDRI Sky.
    • Possible, also set the "Baking Sky" in the Baking Sky component to use the HDRI Sky.
     
    florianalexandru05 likes this.
  39. imaewyn

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    as I understand, hdrp does not support the standard terrain in the unit. From this follows the question, how can I throw a huge number of objects on the landscape? For example prefab with grass
     
    antey3064 likes this.
  40. Gord10

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    Thank you. I think a warning about this could be very helpful when someone tried to use ambient color in classic ways.
     
  41. Remy_Unity

    Remy_Unity

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    HDRP doesn't support the terrain shader and it's grass, but placing detail meshes on the terrain with prefabs that use HDRP materials will display them (since it's basicaly prefab instances).
    You could also use PolyBrush scatter to do this.
     
  42. phil_lira

    phil_lira

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    Unlit shaders work in LWRP. Actually every shader that doesn't define a LightMode tag or define a Lightmode tag as "SRPDefaultUnlit" will render in LWRP.
     
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  43. JohnSmith1915

    JohnSmith1915

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    Hi, any way to download the speedboats LWRP project?, thanks

    Sin título77.png
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
  44. SunnySunshine

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    Ok thanks!

    Will there be a way to render unlit shaders in HDRP?
     
  45. Karearea

    Karearea

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    I think it was mentioned above that the artist will release it at a later date. I’m eager to get my hands on water that functions with the LWRP!
     
    JohnSmith1915 likes this.
  46. Grimreaper358

    Grimreaper358

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    upload_2018-4-5_23-12-30.png
     
  47. JPBotelho

    JPBotelho

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    Questions:
    Will regular surface shaders with vertex displacement break?

    Will we still have access to Cg/HLSL source or do we have to use shadergraph?
     
  48. SunnySunshine

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    Is the source for these shaders available somewhere?

    edit:
    nm, found it. Wow, there's a ton of stuff going on in this file. I hope there will be a way to render custom frag-vert shaders w/o so much extra stuff.

    edit2:
    It seems like normal unlit shaders (as in frag-vert) display properly when simply using the package manager to install HDRP. (In the SRP demo on github they wouldn't display.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
  49. HadynTheHuman

    HadynTheHuman

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    Been experimenting with the SRP stuff the past few days, and I've noticed a couple of bugs and limitations as I've gone:
    • LWRP and HDRP Template projects don't seem to start off with the Render-pipelines.core package imported; everything is pink until you import the package and restart the editor.
    • OpenGLCore support is very limited. The HDRP doesn't seem to work at all (I've filed a bug report). The LWRP works with OpenGL, but doesn't support VR.
    • VR Support is very limited. I only got it to work in the LWRP, in DX11, in Single Pass (non instanced) mode (filed a bug report for this, too).
    For reference, this is what my testing of Graphics APIs / VR Modes / Pipelines looked like:

    upload_2018-4-6_17-33-42.png

    Despite these caveats, overall I think it's super cool! It's great to have this level of control, and the API's nice and straightforward. Unity peeps should be proud :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
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  50. phil_lira

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    As long as your shader pass doesn't have any LightMode tag or have one of the following tags ("SRPDefaultUnlit" and "LightweightForward") it will render in LWRPShaders will render in LWRP.

    Cg/HLSL shaders will work. You can still use the old shader library. We do have a new cool SRP shader library that we are working on the docs of it.
     
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