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Feedback Wanted: High Definition Render Pipeline

Discussion in 'Graphics Experimental Previews' started by Tim-C, Sep 25, 2018.

  1. ArnoldCarterWong

    ArnoldCarterWong

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    Did some more CarViz works with HDRP 6.8 in 2019.2
    Is it possible to set each reflection probes to be in their specific resolution in the future HDRP versions?

    AMValkyrieAMR_u3d_2019-2_HDRPv6-8_2019-08-01b_001.jpg
    AMValkyrieAMR_u3d_2019-2_HDRPv6-8_2019-08-01b_004.jpg
    AMValkyrieAMR_u3d_2019-2_HDRPv6-8_2019-08-01b_005.jpg
    AMValkyrieAMR_u3d_2019-2_HDRPv6-8_2019-08-01b_011.jpg
    AMValkyrieAMR_u3d_2019-2_HDRPv6-8_2019-08-01b_012.jpg
     
  2. elbows

    elbows

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    Is area light support for volumetric fog still planned? I thought I heard about this at a roadmap talk earlier this year, but I am confused about the timing of it.
     
  3. Grimreaper358

    Grimreaper358

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    Also waiting to see if this will be implemented as well
     
  4. mxmcharbonneau

    mxmcharbonneau

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    In the builtin rendering pipeline, I could add [ImageEffectOpaque] to a post process so it could render before all transparent object. I added this to my Depth of field effect, that way it did not affect my transparent particles, which was better than the alternative, since transparent particles do not write to the depth buffer.

    I tried to do something similar with the Depth of field of the HDRP, but I found no way to set it up that way, it can only be queued after the transparent objects. Is there a way I could do this that I did not found? If not, is it a setting that could be added to the Depth of field effect of the HDRP?
     
  5. iamarugin

    iamarugin

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    @SebLagarde any news on hdrp customisation and PPv3 extending? When to expect them approximately?
     
  6. nsxdavid

    nsxdavid

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    In reality this whole UI problem is pretty insane. There's no way to do a proper HUD in HDRP with how things are working, nor in anyway that seems like they will support. Did Unity forget this is a GAME engine, not just a graphics demo engine?
     
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  7. Reanimate_L

    Reanimate_L

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    wait hold up, isn't FPS demo project use UI and HDRP?
     
  8. alexandre-fiset

    alexandre-fiset

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    I've been making UI in HDRP for months, what's the problem with it?
     
  9. nsxdavid

    nsxdavid

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    Can't do stack cameras. Can't control post effects on UI independently. Overlay camera will not AA.

    Unless I'm missing something....
     
  10. Dreamback

    Dreamback

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    What exactly do you mean by stack cameras? What errors are you getting, and which version of Unity are you using? Do you mean multiple cameras rendering to the game window in different viewports, because I just tried that in 2019.1 and it worked just fine, both with rendered backgrounds and transparent backgrounds (Background Type None).

    Personally, I don't think anything done in an experimental feature is "insane", especially missing features when they are constantly adding new features. For us though, the UI seems perfectly fine in HDRP, we upgraded a project to HDRP, and our UI, both screen-space and world-space, looks the same. Admittedly, we aren't doing anything crazy or cool with it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
  11. Korindian

    Korindian

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    Yeah camera stacking (layering cameras within the same viewport) does work currently at a performance cost per camera.

    I also found that I couldn't remove unwanted post processing from a Screen Space Camera UI, for example post process antialiasing (which affects text in undesirable ways) or bloom (which can blur the UI or make it glow).

    Antialiasing of SVGs in Screen Space Overlay UIs doesn't work.

    We don't know if or when Unity will implement these things, so I've had to find other ways of implementing things in my game, but it sure would be nice if some of these things were addressed. They've been tackling each of the things I've wanted so far in HDRP, so I have some confidence they'll address these things too.

    On an unrelated note, Unity devs seem to be relatively quiet in this forum nowadays compared to their participation before. Must be really busy trying to get HDRP out of preview.
     
  12. sqallpl

    sqallpl

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    HDRP 5.13, Unity 2019.1.1

    I have a question about transparent materials and AO.

    Materials that use transparent mode are not affected by HDRP post processing AO, even at full alpha. We have noticed this because we are using them for roads (to blend the edges with tranparency masks).

    Is it a bug or maybe this is a proper behavior of transparent material (even at full alpha) and AO?
     
  13. kFreezer

    kFreezer

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    HDRP 6.9.1 Unity 2019.2.0
    Metallic slider isn't affected by my maskmap anymore and I can't understand why as the map is directly from Substance Painter.
    Is there something new that needs to be activated in the shader or HDRP profile?
    upload_2019-8-8_10-21-46.png

    [edit] the shader I use is the HDRP/Lit
     
  14. id0

    id0

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    kFreezer probably substance don't add metallic map or add it wrong, just try anothr texture which you know it's working.
     
  15. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    Hi,

    I would like to ask if HDRP is out of Beta stage and if there is a way to render a 2ond camera to a rendertexture ?

    Thanks
     
  16. YuriyPopov

    YuriyPopov

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    Installing Polybrush in a project with HDRP 6.9.1/6.9.0 on unity 2019.2.0b10 and unity 2019.2.0f1 causes the HDRI sky exposure to mess up and become very bright. This is fixed by resetting the volume override.
     
  17. kFreezer

    kFreezer

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    I tried it with a simple sphere and it still not working.
    The red channel isn't empty and has information, when I set the Metallic slider to 1 I have the same result as in painter but for some reason it doesn't apply it automatically and I don't understand why
    upload_2019-8-8_15-0-4.png
     
  18. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    2019.3 will be potentially out of beta stage. Looking at 2020.1 if you want to be sure.

    Rendering a camera to texture works the same as it has always done, just apply a target render texture.
     
  19. nsxdavid

    nsxdavid

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    No, stacking cameras does not work.

    Antialiasing of SVGs in Screen Space Overlay UIs doesn't work. And we need that to work. Which would be fine, if you could do it properly with screen space cameras, but you can't.

    The problem is you can't manage the camera independently. The post processing system doesn't understand what camera it should be working with, and it varies by effect. Getting AA on one, some and not other effects on the other. It's a mess.

    I wish it did work, but it doesn't. And I've tried all versions of unity constantly, 2019.1 and .2 series.
     
  20. Tiddan

    Tiddan

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    Nope, FinalPass.shader now hardcodes the alpha value to 1.0. This makes rendering UI to a RenderTexture very difficult for instance. This alpha channel is going to be reserved for some future feature.

    Source: https://issuetracker.unity3d.com/is...ble-is-ignored-when-using-hdrp-5-dot-10-dot-0
     
  21. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Fix it with the composite blit to final frame by restoring alpha there or just blending away black.
     
  22. nsxdavid

    nsxdavid

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    I was never able to get any of this to work. We tried dozens of approach, each was blocked by some other problem with the way the HDRP works. And all these oversights (what I would call bugs) just add up to make progress needlessly difficult. Maybe there is a way forward, but we never found one.

    If they made overlay work such that SVG would Antialias properly, none of this would be problem (for us anyway). But... you know, like everything else, that never gets on anyone's radar. Making games and making engines are different things. Which I know very well, I've done both for decades.
     
  23. Dreamback

    Dreamback

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    Same with the developer at Unity in charge of the HDRP, Natalya Tatarchuk, VP of Graphics. She worked for Bungie for 8 years, lead developer behind Destiny's render architecture.

    Ah, so one specific feature that you want to use doesn't work. You should be more clear, saying "stacking cameras does not work" is misleading, and doesn't help anyone help you, and instead you get people (like me) saying "yes it is, I was using multiple stacked cameras". Although I'm still not totally sure I understand, can't you choose a different Volume Layer for the camera you want? Then choose that layer with the Volume Layer Mask for the camera? That should let you choose which post processes work with that specific camera.

    Also, maybe you could edit the SRP for the camera you want to work on using HDAdditionalCameraData.customRender if it isn't working how you would like? We did that when we needed to use specialized replacement shaders for specialized cameras.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  24. nsxdavid

    nsxdavid

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    You're right, maybe the volume camera association might work. But from what I've read, stacked cameras are intended to go away to be replaced by something not defined yet. Or has that changed again? I find it hard to keep up.
     
  25. fherbst

    fherbst

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    @nsxdavid @Korindian only current solution to have UI ignore Post FX / post-aniatliasing and still be properly integrated into your scene (e.g. a worldspace UI), you have to use a custom UI shader that renders after the HDRP postprocessing pass.

    I created one a while back (manual combination of UI-Default shader and ShaderGraph), and it worked for my usecase, but still pretty hacky (messing with blend modes and pipeline tags until it came out as needed). Maybe it's helpful.
     

    Attached Files:

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  26. SilverStorm

    SilverStorm

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    I just did a test of the standard render pipeline and the hdrp/lwrp render pipeline to see the difference in quality and performance. Most of these are just out of the box examples with the exception of disabling fog and 1 spotlight in both demo scenes which was causing issues. I use my low end video card to do the benchmarking-The test was done in 2019.2:
    *Please know that due to a reported bug that was never fixed whatever fps you are seeing below is actually half of what I am getting on average. I fix the bug by opening and sculpting for 10 seconds on Zbrush. If you have Zbrush try that method to see if there is an fps difference before and after opening it.
    HDRP:
    Pro: Shadow quality best I have seen in a game engine.

    Con:Not usable on mid to low end hardware even in the editor with average of 16-35 fps depending on default demo settings an disabling everything including shadows:
    Con: There is very little wiggle room to add much more to the scene, making them for only very high end machines which I suppose was the intention.
    Con: Asset Store support is extremely limited right now.

    Standard Pipeline:
    Pro: Always usable frame rates going from a minimum of 100-150+ depending on whether intensive AO was on or off.
    Pro: The extra performance would be very useful.

    Con: Shadow quality is just meh, if i didn't disable that 1 spotlight in the scene the shadows would have looked horrible due to limited support for multiple lights and spotlight shadows.
    Con: A lot more fill rate bound than the others.

    LWRP:
    As a bonus I did the LWRP test and it also follows the same guidelines as the others but I was getting frame rates of about 80 so it turns out that disabling the Post Process Layer increased my frame rate dramatically to 110 which is close to the Standard Pipelines range.

    The amazing thing though is that there isn't that much visual difference between the HDRP and LWRP visually but in all honesty right now LWRP wins! If it had a bit better shadows it would be hands down better I'd say.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
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  27. Rich_A

    Rich_A

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    Appreciate it - what about building them though and properly testing the FPS using Fraps? I always get very different results in the editor vs. a build.

    Seems like HDRP is built targeting 2020-era nextgen consoles as the base level. Makes sense since any project started now should be targeting those same consoles as well.
     
  28. SilverStorm

    SilverStorm

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    I don't have the time to test all that but I have uploaded those projects for you and anyone else who wants to test them out, let me know of anything interesting and the resuts you get on your hardware in editor and build if you like:

    https://1drv.ms/u/s!AjhzZ7qjdmSBhAkM70Xd8XQVH2B7?e=dUhK6A

    *Removed AO (Amplify Occlusion) plugin since it's purchase item.
    *You will need to allow Unity to rebuild the library on all projects.
    *If you don't trust Unity editor fps or fraps you can get an fps counter on github
    *All projects need their Vsync in quality settings checked to off so you can check true fps.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
  29. Jesus

    Jesus

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    @SilverStorm
    For framerates, what can help is building the project. I remember doing some benchmarking a while back (pre Unity 2017) and the difference between Editor and Build was >40-50%. I don't know if the gap's still that big, but it might be worth trying out if you want to check your FPS.

    As for LWRP, isn't it going to transition into URP, and effectively replace Standard Pipeline?
     
  30. SilverStorm

    SilverStorm

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    Urgent update due to a bug that was never fixed and that I reported years ago:
    It seems the bug I reported where my frame rates are dropped Until I open up Zbrush are still within Unity even a couple years later! That means on average my true fps in the editor is actually about double what all my results show!
    Yes that means on average I get 30fps in the HDRP, 300 on the LWRP, and much even more on the standard pipeline test. Also be aware an empty scene in the standard pipeline yields crazy fps.

    When the bug is present clicking the empty scene causes a 20% fps boost so it might be related to poor Unity input issues. It's also possible that Zbrush is unlocking my cpu or clearing some kind of cache which Unity doesn't I don't know.

    @Jesus It's expected that a build's fps would be much higher but this is not just about the build it's about the actual editor benchmarking for me since I'll be spending so much time in it.
    I am ok with them replacing STDRP with LWRP at some point but we'll need a lot of important asset store compatibility changes to it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
  31. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Er well it runs like butter on current gen consoles so I'm not sure what to say other than people are actually abusing it.

    My hardware is 5 years old now and I get >100fps solid in my game on it at native 2440p as well so it's probably down to what people are doing with it.
     
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  32. SilverStorm

    SilverStorm

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    @hippocoder 100fps+ at 4k on the HDRP template scene?
    That's very hard to believe at 4k. What video card are are you using so I can run some scaling?

    On closer inspection the HDRP image I uploaded says 0 verts and tris rofl I guess Unity thinks they are made of candyfloss lol.
     
  33. Reanimate_L

    Reanimate_L

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    I'm actually getting 100+ fps on my editor (no 4K display tho) 3 years old rig.
    Even on modified sample scene, PCSS,GTAO,Volumetric,SSR are active here
    upload_2019-8-13_2-9-2.png
     
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  34. konsic

    konsic

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    Could you add support for realtime lights to contribute to light probes ?
     
  35. Reanimate_L

    Reanimate_L

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    As in realtime light baked into lightprobes?
     
  36. konsic

    konsic

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    Yes,. but without baking.
     
  37. Reanimate_L

    Reanimate_L

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    What? Then what is the difference with realtime light?
     
  38. konsic

    konsic

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    I wouldn't have to use lightmaps but only realtime indirect lighting.
     
  39. Reanimate_L

    Reanimate_L

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    For Static Object?
     
  40. konsic

    konsic

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    No
     
  41. Reanimate_L

    Reanimate_L

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    Well anyway, i believe Lightprobe are not the domain of HDRP team. It's the domain of Lighting team. And i believe they developing a new lightprobe atm, might want to check in the lighting forum
     
  42. keeponshading

    keeponshading

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  43. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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  44. keeponshading

    keeponshading

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    Mhmm?
    By further reading i found a merge to HDRP 7.0.1.
    Will check 2019.3 alpha.

    My old granite solution is on hold for 6 months now.
    Started to look into
    https://github.com/hamish-milne/VT0
    but it is lots of work.
    Other solution is
    https://github.com/EpicGames/UnrealEngine/commit/31f90c7d5f0ab2da0f10b0504ea713fb9a8fa309

    Wrote several EMails to graphine, asked unity sales, asked here in the forums. No success up to now. Some information blockade who really hurts when you build up your method around it.

    Virtual texturing should be seen as too important for only providing access behind a enterprise paywall.)

    Hope there will be a nice implementation to complete virtualize HighRes PBR texture sets and custom Lightmaps
    with ease over Shadergraph and Standard SRP shaders.
    Biggest problem i see is again some fancy lighting asset blackboxing.

    good overview about activities..
    https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/ScriptableRenderPipeline/pull/4147


    edit
    seems pretty complete for Lit, LayeredLit, Terrain...
    Question is what happens with Lightmaps?
    Outside PLM world there is really a need for virtual Lightmaps.
    8k, 16k or 64k Atlas.
    Streaming Lightmaps for GPU instances out of an huge VirtualAtlas is really needed too.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  45. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Sure, just pointing out it's early days and Unity will probably announce something or other.
     
  46. keeponshading

    keeponshading

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    A github commit is the best commit.)
    When you working in a marketing department you have probably to do 2 buisness cases these days.

    1)
    set Virtual Texturing, Havok physics and PiXYZ CAD behind a paywall to sell more enterprise licenses for good money and only suport some payed? bim autodesk roundtripping development and ignore everything else

    or

    2)
    invest and release it free for all your customers. (Personal and Pro) and generate glTF based roundtripping with payed and open source DCC s

    Last one is the more sustainable and generates some large brand switching behaviour with lots of more cash reflow. Only my calculation.
    ( problem with 2. is that your product will get so advanced, adapted and loved that you need no marketing department anymore which results in a recommendation from the marketing department for 1 .)

    You can see similar but not the same by reviewing the history of Blender and Autodesk. Autodesk Max and Maya have some really big problems today and the brand switching here alone in last 3 months is enormous.

    sorry.back to topic.)
    Feedback wanted. VT HDRP
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  47. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Cool, it's off-topic though as this thread is for feedback on the HDRP features you are using right now.

    I think it's already very clear to Unity how important Graphine is given how much money they spent on the acquisition so hopefully someone will give more insight.
     
  48. elbows

    elbows

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    I'm thinking that we are close enough to Unite Europe that some shiny new things will be revealed there, rather than beforehand.

    I'm still loving the way HDRP is going, although I enjoyed the quality of information we were given by HDRP team members on the forum in 2018 far more than what we've been given in 2019.

    I like timely roadmap info. I'm sure the team have been busy hitting the key milestones necessary for a production-ready release, and we know about some of these things from info we were told before (eg XR). And part of this complaint should be directed at Unity more generally, since their online roadmap page is not much use for scriptable pipeline stuff, and that roadmap page is generally very poor compared to the Roadmap talks & slides they do at events.

    I think I am reasonable about roadmaps - I dont complain stupidly if a feature that is on the roadmap for a particular version slips to a later version. Thats life! But I do care about finding out about these things at the right moment, not by accident or thanks only to one helpful Unity staff member on forums at some random moment, going out of their way to help us through informal channels.

    For example, stuff was mentioned in a May roadmap talk about area light improvements in HDRP for 2019.2, and I have raised the subject several times since, but I never get a response (I used to get response about area lights last year, but not since that roadmap talk). I dont mind if roadmap info was incorrect, or timescales have since changed, or if there are technical complications and other parts of system need refactoring first, but I do like to be able to plan things based on latest, quality info, so I'm not overjoyed about this lack of info.

    I would like to think this situation will change when things are out of preview, but based on general state of Unity roadmap communication and what has happened with LWRP/Universal since it came out of preview, I dont actually have much confidence about this.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  49. jjejj87

    jjejj87

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    Hey HDRP team, I think I found a bug.

    With HDRP 7.0.1 and alpha12, once you build a standlone player, close the editor once building is done. Dont make any changes to the project that will prompt auto save on exit.

    Now try to open the project again, and the editor will get stuck with the launching image window.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
  50. Grimreaper358

    Grimreaper358

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    That not because you made a build it's a bug with the editor since 2019.3 a11. If you delete your project's Project Settings folder it will open again (Run the HDRP Wizzard after you open the project)

    After that, you won't have any problems (This seems to only happen with upgraded projects it doesn't like something with the old file) If you make a new project that doesn't happen.

    I haven't found out which file in the project settings folder is directly causing the problem but that's what I've found out.