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Feedback Wanted: High Definition Render Pipeline

Discussion in 'Graphics Experimental Previews' started by Tim-C, Sep 25, 2018.

  1. ArnoldCarterWong

    ArnoldCarterWong

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    In HDRP 6.8.0, it seems the cubemap can work probably only in forward path, some faces of the models in the cubemap would appear black in deferred path.
     
  2. asa989

    asa989

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    hey guys, Unity says that HDRP would work on IOS. I'm trying to use HDRP on iPhone. but the error that I'm getting by default in unity editor is:

    'Deferred.compute': 'SampleShadow_ComputeSamples_Tent_3x3': cannot convert output parameter from 'min16float[4]' to 'float[4]' at kernel Deferred_Indirect_Fptl_Variant26 at Packages/com.unity.render-pipelines.high-definition/Runtime/Lighting/Shadow/HDShadowSampling.hlsl(23) (on metal)

    does any of you know what I can do? Or do you know which version of HDRP is compatible?

    I have tested on unity 2019.1. and 2019.2.
     
  3. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Green colour SSS issues:

    This occurs when you do not add the SSS profile to the HDRP asset (it needs to be added to the collection of SSS profiles):

    upload_2019-7-2_18-25-21.png

    In addition to this the material must also reference it:

    upload_2019-7-2_18-26-36.png

    Do both, then smile.
     
  4. elbows

    elbows

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    Their intention is to make it work with metal iOS devices one day. But I do not think we have reached that stage yet. Here is wording from official documentation:

    https://docs.unity3d.com/Packages/com.unity.render-pipelines.high-definition@6.7/manual/index.html

    It may well end up working on iOS before they announce it, so I would always try the latest working HDRP from github, paired with latest Unity that matches that version (eg HDRP 6.x = 2019.2, HDRP 7.x = 2019.3). But I havent really expected it to work so far, and I dont really know when that will change.
     
    asa989 likes this.
  5. RTVDM

    RTVDM

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    I'm currently using HDRP with VR. When ever bloom is enabled either left or right eye experiences black flickering.
    Previously it was possible to cap bloom intensity preventing said issue.
    Sadly I'm missing these settings in the new HDRP post processing.
     
  6. jjejj87

    jjejj87

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    If anyone has missed it, HDRP will not support realtime GI and Enlighten starting Unity 2020.1

    Support for 2019.3 and later will be hidden if you start a new project as well.

    The next GI/lighting system is to be developed and added to HDRP in 2021, which will leave HDRP users without GI for a full year unless you stick to the 2019 version until 2021

    This is a big smash to the face if you've been working/prepping for HDRP in the 2020 and later timeline.

    More info here:
    https://blogs.unity3d.com/2019/07/0...-for-baked-and-real-time-giobal-illumination/
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
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  7. karl_kent

    karl_kent

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    Dear Unity.
    Please stop making SRP classes internal/protected.
    I Quote, You claim :"
    • Customize rendering processes on a granular level according to your needs"
    Yet, it makes it extremely difficult/hacky to expand and utilize the SRP, and adopt it as a viable customizable renderer, when Core Classes are locked within a package, with protection levels that are prohibitive to use outside of the package.
    It leaves little to no choice/chance to utilize the SRP features.
     
  8. rizu

    rizu

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    Has there been any technical explanation why PCSS is not supported on deferred with HDRP?

    In general I really like HDRP on forward-only mode and am normally using it, but upcoming DXR support requires deferred. This would mean that if I only want to use reflections from DXR, I lose nice PCSS shadow filtering on deferred :(
     
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  9. Grimreaper358

    Grimreaper358

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    This is only true if you consider Enlighten the only lighting system for GI. You also have the Progressive Lightmapper (made by Unity) both the GPU or CPU progressive light mapper. Those can be used for GI (baked GI)

    You can find extra info on all that stuff here as well - https://forum.unity.com/threads/enlighten-deprecation-and-replacement-solution.697778/
     
  10. jjejj87

    jjejj87

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    As I mentioned in my original post, this is regarding Realtime GI.

    and for realtime GI, there is only enlighten. PLM does not support realtime GI.

    So yes, we are left with zero options.
     
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  11. jRocket

    jRocket

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    No, you actually have several options. You can keep using the current versions of Unity that support real-time GI(will be supported to the year 2022), or wait until the new realtime GI system comes out in 2021.1, or just drop realtime GI and use baked like most games do.
     
  12. asa989

    asa989

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    Thanks for the answer. it seams it will work on HDRP 7. they have fixed the errors according to here. So hopefully, there wont be more errors and I can run it on Iphone. I'm working on a project where its deadline is December and I really need this to work. Finger crossed.
     
    elbows likes this.
  13. Ruberta

    Ruberta

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    Can day-night cycle still be implemented with baked GI? How about that sun disk feature in HDRP? I don't know after realtime GI gone which features will not work anymore.
     
  14. Lurking-Ninja

    Lurking-Ninja

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    Nothing will be gone. It will be replaced with other solution, but you will have the same functionality (or at least very close). And besides, 2021-2022 are far away.
     
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  15. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Agreed it's pissed me right off, so I'm just being mature about it. Which means trying to type as little as possible in Unity's direction.

    2021? for REAL? When I read that, and knowing Unity knew this was happening since 2017, I get less impressed by the second. Going for a cup of tea.

    Unlike most people I fall directly in the gap. And no, I cannot stay on 2019.3 LTS because the game's lifespan is a lot longer than .3 LTS is. If people can't see why that's a problem then I've zero interest in explaining to them.

    Anyway, if I'm not posting much it's because I'm busy undoing 2 years of Enlighten based work.
     
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  16. jjejj87

    jjejj87

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    I was actually discussing this with my local developer's group and a lot of them are actually really pissed off at the fact

    1) Unity knew about this few years back and decided to keep us in the dark

    2) Like your project, there are some parts of my project that needs to be worked on due to this poop made by Unity.

    No we don't.

    There is no several options. There was one, and that one is getting dropped. End of story.

    Keep using the version that supports realtime GI is not an option.
    Waiting for the next version is also not an option.
    Dropping the realtime GI from the project is not an option.

    the three above as you mentioned as "options" are the problem.
     
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  17. elbows

    elbows

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    Those years arent so relevant to this HDRP thread, at least for those of us who feel we will need to keep up with HDRP versions during 2020. Arguably HDRP has a bigger realtime GI time hole, the deprecation warnings are already in HDRP on github, and the blog post made it clear that HDRP is the first to be affected by the dropping of Enlighten.

    Long term I am happy to wave goodbye to Enlighten but I am really very unhappy about the timescale, the HDRP gap, the way it was announced ('reach out and let us help you transition' - transition to what exactly?) and how much notice they gave us.

    I do rather lose confidence when I feel the userbase are being treated with contempt.
     
  18. Lurking-Ninja

    Lurking-Ninja

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    Yepp, that's a valid concern. Hope they will address it ASAP with some solution.
     
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  19. Grimreaper358

    Grimreaper358

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    Yea, 2020.1 forward HDRP won't have support for Enlighten.
    I get the frustration this brings for a lot of people

    Wanted to ask a question regarding this as well.

    Since most people here like to keep up with the latest HDRP releases (If, your game won't be released before the new solution is out) How major is the effect of just using just realtime lighting without GI until then in your project?

    Asking because if I was in that situation that's what I would be doing until we have access to the new Realtime GI. I guess it also depends on the type of project but currently you can have really nice lighting with just realtime lighting and no GI.
     
  20. sqallpl

    sqallpl

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    I still hope that 2021.1 is about stable/official release and that we would start getting preview versions of the solution as soon as possible for the HDRP releases but I'm just guessing.

    Actually it would be great to know when we can expect the first preview version of the solution for HDRP. From now we still have 5 TECH releases before 2021.1
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  21. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Really all Unity needs to do at this point to quell the mob is:
    • Show pics
    • Tell us what is going on every couple of months
    • Early preview now-ish with the shipping-risk on our shoulders ;)
    Love you all, but... give us something cos you took something. And sooner than 2021.1 If 2021.1 is the final finished thing that's fine, but I need it kinda now-ish or ASAP to get started with, to provide feedback and help with bugs. Lets get this done sooner while keeping the end-date at 2021.1.

    Obviously we're adults but I don't think it's a big ask for Unity to put a bit of resource around something considering they probably did save money saying no to Enlighten going forward as a partner. So that saved money, well it's not banked money because customers are now paying a higher price because of it.

    Logic is common here.
     
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  22. Haugkall

    Haugkall

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    I'm working on a game that I plan to publish hopefully in the next 2 years. I think I'm going to need to use the terrain tool, grass is my main concern. I don't think it's viable to place strands of grass by hand. Is HDRP soon going to add such functionality?
     
  23. jRocket

    jRocket

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    Instanced mesh painting system should be a generic thing, not something specific to HDRP(although shaders would need to be compatible). Sadly, there is nothing like this on the Unity public roadmap.
     
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  24. keeponshading

    keeponshading

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    Please show something soon.
    Some Feedback.

    Everthing fine here. After 3 years rebuilding our complete Unreal scenario in Unity and doing everthing twice during last year to work on BuiltIn and HDRP to get an smooth transition i am finally forced to check out how fast a transition back to Unreal could be, because they found a way to go on with Enlighten.

    Not only because of Enlighten.
    More by showing no potential to rock this in the future and showing any care for users who go the pre LTS adventure with them. (Use it, as it is, till 2021).

    The question "How a team that was not able to deliver an fully working Enlighten integration and who is responsible for an Lightmapper PLM who is in horrible condition after 3 years, now will have something productive and additionally replace an best in class RealtimeGI solution 2021 " should be allowed.

    At least the should be the possibilty to pay for an updatet, working Enlighten integration, like in Unreal till they is an replacement out of preview..
    This would be the absolut minimum when there would be some respect and understanding for users who planned with it, developed with it, and need it.


    I loosed confidence, too.


    Unity users also have internet and know what "gaming" is.
    Some press in chronlogical order.


    - Silicon Studio adapts Graphines software for console , PC, and VR development.

    - Unity Technologies Acquires Graphine

    - Silicon Studio acquires Enlighten tech from Geomerics

    - Unity announces (through an ex employe from Geomerics)
    removing Enlighten due to Geomerics is shutting down Enlighten as product.

    - Enlighten 3.09, Unreal Engine version 4.22 release
    ...
    Modern engines like Unreal Engine are now transitioning away from traditional inefficient methods of drawing meshes on the CPU. This addresses a major bottleneck which has long caused headaches for teams who work with massive worlds. Moving mesh drawing closer to the GPU also opens up many exciting options including real-time ray-tracing.

    Unreal Engine 4.22 brings a number of exciting major features, such as support for real-time ray-tracing and mesh drawing optimizations. In particular the new Mesh Drawing Pipeline now enables draw call merging. The engine can now automatically identify mesh draw calls that are identical and merge them into a single draw call.

    Because Enlighten is deeply integrated within the Unreal Engine renderer we had to carefully re-design some key areas of the implementation. While this was a significant undertaking, it provided an opportunity to revisit and update Enlighten rendering code to take full advantage of recent Unreal Engine renderer improvements. Enlighten for UE4 now fully supports the new mesh drawing pipeline to enable efficient draw call merging in combination with Enlighten indirect lighting.

    These changes also lay the groundwork for use of Enlighten in combination with real-time ray-tracing in Unreal Engine. The changes to support draw call merging are a key building block for making Enlighten lighting data available to ray-tracing shaders. This brings us a step closer to our vision for the combination of high accuracy real-time ray-traced effects with Enlighten global illumination. We will be presenting more about this combination in the future as our research progresses.

    The Enlighten team
    ....


    I also feel sorry for the SRP, LWRP, HDRP teams who are deliverering an best in class solution and must now live with this worst in class PLM input and this ´as it is´ Realtime GI integration.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
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  25. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Unity's working on detail mesh stuff at the moment, I think they have a very very big worklog this year from what I inferred from staff's tortured wails and cracking whips.
     
  26. asa989

    asa989

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    The other problem you will have other than grass is stretch in your texture on terrain. we couldnt apply our custom shader on terrain in HDRP. this was 5 months ago. Maybe it is fixed now.
     
  27. konsic

    konsic

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    Why Enlighten wasn't the same in Unity as in Unreal ?

    What pipeline can replace Enlighten now?

    Why does Unreal still use Enlighten? Why is not deprecated there?
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  28. Haugkall

    Haugkall

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    I don't really mind less detail in the ground. But it's impossible right now to paint grass billboards, trees or detailed objects. Is this something the HDRP is going to eventually make working? I'm still in the process of making assets so I can still switch to a better engine in case unity won't work out. I just need to know if the terrain tools will start working with the HDRP soon.
     
  29. keeponshading

    keeponshading

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    I use the DirectX 11 Grass Asset (BuiltIn RP) which is outstanding.

    Have a look in the videos.

    Its only generating points on mesh or terrain and this is the base to generate grass in geometry shader.
    You can paint then tex textures to influence height. color....

    So similar thing is possible with visual effect graph today.
    . There is also an VisualEffectGraph Grass example to download.

    Other way is to take the sherman grass hdrp shaders. There are 3 different gras ones.

    Then take the geo planes and splat it it with polybrush to your mesh or terrain. Apply the shaders.
    Not comfortable but working. I splatted half of Fontainebleau and it works ok but not great performance wise.
    The standard HDRP lighting works great here.


    Think, the DirectX 11 Grass Asset will also find his way to HDRP, when out of preview.
    But will need some time.
    It can burn. Removed on contact. Flattened. Multiple wind zones.Comfortable painting for height, color, variation. Some shot from my track in BuilInRP.

    DX11Grass_Test001 (1).JPG
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  30. Vagabond_

    Vagabond_

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    Unreal does not support Enlighten officially. As far as i know ARM (Geomerics) was doing some integration and demos in Unreal as it's source code is available but i don't think EPIC has ever integrated Enlighten officially !

    Is it ?
     
  31. keeponshading

    keeponshading

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    Enlighten wasn't the same in Unity as in Unreal ?

    You can do something with love or without.
    Same with Lightmass nd Progressive Lightmapper.

    What pipeline can replace Enlighten now?

    Now. Nothing.
    But you can use it, buggy and with crazy intensities, ,as it is, in HDRP till end of the year.
    Then you must stay on this HDRP version at least till 2021.
    Then there will for sure something productive they cannot talk about.
    Sorry.

    Why does Unreal still use Enlighten?

    Because lots of people use it , it is well integrated as middleware and it is working great.
    They like to provide professionell alternatives.
    They have no problem with Silicon Studio?
    By reading this weeks mails from epic they see a chance to get some Unity customers who need it.
    They see potential to build up on it.
    They probably see an good interplay with DXR and VRAY integration.
    The like to provide access to best in class tech middlewares.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  32. Ruberta

    Ruberta

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    What!? No! Enlighten not integrated within Unreal Engine 4.22 by default. It's a middleware that you have to pay before you can use it. I don't think price gonna cheap since they don't show the price on their website.

    I don't know why they try to misleading people about this. Epic not announce anything about have Enlighten in their engine by default since they released 4.22. It's not even on their roadmap.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  33. keeponshading

    keeponshading

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    Yes.
    I wrote...
    At least the should be the possibilty to pay for an updated, working Enlighten integration, like in Unreal till they is an replacement out of preview..

    Also Realtime GI, alone or in combination with baked stuff has some value. A big one.

    What you think it will cost Unity to develop an new one with similar quality.
    Who is paying this.

    When you will do Lightmapping you must pay for Bakery.
    When you will do networking. You must pay for Photon.
    When you will have best in class PostProcessing. You must pay for Yebis. But PPV3 is pretty close now.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  34. Haugkall

    Haugkall

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    I do not understand what you're saying, are you familiar with "paint details" tab on the terrain tab. In there you have an option to add a grass layer which is a single grass texture. You add the grass texture and you start painting on the terrain. It's not working in HDRP.

    My question is, will it ever work. Because if I can't paint grass or trees with ease in the next year then it might be a better option for me to switch engine.
     
  35. Ruberta

    Ruberta

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    You can try to contact silicon studio for support Unity. If you have much really much money, I'm sure that it gonna get support.

    For now, you can stay with Enlighten 3.09 for buildin pipeline til the end of 2020 and HDRP til end of 2019.
     
  36. Mauri

    Mauri

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    Afaik Unreal's solution is called Lightmass. While I don't know if it works like Enlighten, it does seem to be comparable to Unity's CPU/GPU lightmapper - only a bit better?!
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
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  37. keeponshading

    keeponshading

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    I do not use terrain workflows because you have far more control and performance with mesh based workflows.

    Here a really good tutorial to understand how to do it in BuiltInRP mesh based.
    http://www.perfectparallel.com/topic/11290-3d-grass-tutorial/
    It s really good and you only have to understand the technique.
     
  38. jRocket

    jRocket

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    I would be hesitant to use a third party produce for such an important thing as lighting. They can always stop updating/supporting it, and in the case of Unreal, the plugin needs to recompiled for each engine version. Game dev past is littered with abandoned software and broken promises.
     
  39. keeponshading

    keeponshading

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    Cannot get this?
    Exactly that happened for for all Unity users.
    They stopped updating now and won t support it anymore in HDRP after 2019.4. When i would be able to recompile it , i would be happy.

    So when i need HighEnd graphics and RealtimeGI
    i have to use
    CryEngine,
    Unreal with Enlighten
    or wait to 2021 for an Unity preview.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  40. keeponshading

    keeponshading

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    We use Yebis for Unity and Silicon Studio has support response times from a few hours and always solutions within days.

    In this case Unity decided to remove it, because of geomerics shutdown....), i think it makes no sense to reach out for support to Silicon Studio when Unity don t want support it as middleware.

    I am still under shock. Let see what happens.
    We use more engines. It only a big hit for Unitys progress.
     
  41. Vagabond_

    Vagabond_

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    I think in general it is better for Unity to remove 3rd party licensed middlewares as Enlighten and implement their own solutions !

    The point is now that it takes a lot of time for every single system they try to implement. PLM took a lot of time, UNet as well ( now abandoned ) , the new Input System as well, UI system still has some issues etc... etc... We wanted more tools as Node based shader editor and others and they decided to lock them to SRPs and all this looks super weird to me. I really thought HDRP will be almost ready at this point based of their advertisement, but it feels still unfinished, heavy and uncomplete nor user friendly !

    After a lot of time spend on playing with Lightmappers and HDRP i decided to skip them and stick to the Standard Pipeline and real time lighting !

    Honestly i didn't think it will take that much time to develop whatever system they try to implement !
    It feels like constant waiting !

    So, hopefully they will manage to finally provide robust, performant and modern engine to users ( well at some point ) !
     
  42. keeponshading

    keeponshading

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    There is actually one engine i know who managed to do their own RealtimeGI method. This is Cryengine.
    Works fantastic outside (benchmark) but hard for interieur and unusable for mobile or vr.
    To master it you need 2 years.

    Unreal never did it. They have Enlighten as middleware. It s successfully used in some AAA titles and works as it should.
    Own methods they developed were not usable and no success for general use.
    Lightmass as Lightmapper is ok, but has many problems too.
    And they have very skilled people.

    For Unity to do a own productive version it s a big, long years investment with lots of risks under the enormous pressure through deprecating Enlighten and having nothing in place what s working with SRP s. Today. And they announced to leave it as it is.

    When you see what PLM is after 3 years. OMG.
    It s the worst in class pathtracing Lightmapper.
    I do lightmaps since lots of years and I could generate them faster and more correct with potato printing and scan these.
    Last 2 Blogpost they showed very impressive that there is the most basic understanding missing to rock this and they try to solve stuff whats solved since years and is open source available.

    Now they should additionally rock a Realtime GI method in 2 years for 2021.

    It s hard to imagine. Please proof me wrong.

    When there comes another post from Mr F that he doesnt develop Bakery further. Good night.

    For high quality, productive Lightmapping in Unity there is only Blender and VRay at the moment. We use Blender because it scales for free on many GPU s. Bakery is close but lacks full HDRP support for now.

    I think it s time to make a holiday till after Copenhagen Unite.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  43. Haugkall

    Haugkall

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    Thank you, I'll look over those tutorial videos. Even if it's not as easy to do as using the terrain editor if the result looks better and it's performance friendly then great. :)
     
  44. keeponshading

    keeponshading

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    It s worth to understand mesh based methods too.
    All mesh based stuff i did over years always get better and improves. All terrain stuff got lost and broke.
    But there is lot s off new stuff coming up.
    Just personal experience.

    I could you give some screenshots tomorrow how to use the sherman gras in hdrp on mesh and terrain in HDRP.

    But method to go and perfect for understanding is the tutorial link.

    Here the link to the Forum of the Asset the Golf Tutorial is made with.
    https://forum.unity.com/threads/directx-11-grass-shader.348258/
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  45. fherbst

    fherbst

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    Just gave HDRP another shot and played with it for 30 minutes on 2019.2.0b7.

    Result are 3 new bug reports and funny GIFs:

    mWZhBYWtap.gif
    N8fO80dS12.gif
    AywSaVZKbN.gif
    wSnAt4Ef0C.gif

    (case 1168706, case 1168704, case 1168701)

    As an additional question - is ShaderGraph in HDRP so slow for everyone? I usually work in LWRP and there I feel I can at least work. In HDRP every second ShaderGraph interaction (creating nodes, creating or deleting connections) results in a hang of at least 5-10s. Not sure how I'm supposed to let creativity flow like that :)
     
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  46. Vagabond_

    Vagabond_

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    Yep :)
    I stated that many times as well !
     
  47. jRocket

    jRocket

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    Posts:
    485
    It is pretty slow. I think it's compiling shaders whenever you make a change?
     
  48. Danua

    Danua

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2015
    Posts:
    192
    Hello guyz, could anyone explain me how to get bright blue sky when ACES tonemapping in use.
    upload_2019-7-10_23-5-6.png
    I wanna recreate THIS atmosphere and looks

     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  49. Grimreaper358

    Grimreaper358

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2013
    Posts:
    572
    Seems like you are using the Procedural Sky. It would be easier to use an HDRI for that but if you really wanna use the procedural sky you could get close.

    First, you would need to reduce the Sky EV (15-16)
    Change the sky tint to a lighter blue

    the rest is all Post Processing to get it looking similar (A lot of tweaking will be needed here since everything else in your scene will be affected) This is why it would be easier with an HDRI that already looks similar

    upload_2019-7-10_13-41-36.png
     
    Adam-Bailey and Mauri like this.
  50. Jovssen

    Jovssen

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2016
    Posts:
    31
    Why does refraction fade to the sky color around the edges of the screen?
    wrong.png
    It's a 100% smoothness low alpha billboard, meaning it should be almost invisible, but around the screen it's getting the skybox color....?