Official Feedback on Open Projects?

Hey all. We're (maybe) halfway through on the journey of this first Open Project. However, in the interest of making things better while we're still at it, me and the team wanted to capture your feedback on the initiative while it's hot. When we say initiative, we mean all of it:

• The game development process of Chop Chop
• Handling of the forums, communication
• The bi-weekly livestreams ("Open Projects: The Journey")
• The monthly Devlogs and related demo branches

We're particularly interested in your feedback on the video content we make, both the live and pre-recorded videos. Do you watch them? Are they useful? Boring? Too dense or too high-level?
Do you watch The Journey live, or only the recording?

Please let us know your feedback below. If you have some criticism, it would be great to hear also how you think it should be handled instead. Also, very importantly, please keep in mind the framing of this initiative and of the game we're making.

Thanks in advance!

 

Yes, they are really informative. We learn a lot of things from videos and the project itself. This project itself is a great initiative for both the community and Unity. I have learned from this project and implemented the nearly same pattern of event system and scene loading system in my own project (sorry about that).

But I am having a problem with the editor Initialisation loader, which some times returns from the start method without setting the is Editor initialisation mode to true and therefore not raising the inSceneLoaded event and therefore not spawning the player(which is being discussed here: https://forum.unity.com/threads/scene-loading-system.980178/


One personal request, please take a look at this thread: (it had been a month)
https://forum.unity.com/threads/edi...uctively-find-scriptable-objects-sos.1030345/
Thanks.

 

I was really excited about this idea, but I was late to the party and thought maybe I missed my chance (having heard the 6 month timeline). Now I'm trying to get up to speed and finding it easier than I expected. Even if I don't end up participating, I've already learned a lot just from checking the updates. And the livestreams have been really enjoyable to watch, Ciro, Chema, and Amel have a great rapport, making the whole project feel fun and welcoming.

I didn't expect as much video content as there already is, but if you were considering adding to it I would suggest maybe a monthly high-level update. Less detailed than the livestreams, less focused on one feature than the devlogs. Essentially a way to catch up without reading dozens of forum threads, especially to make it easier for people to stay on top of things across disciplines, or from the outside. Along the lines of "Username suggested x, but it didn't work, so we're doing y to solve the problem instead. Meanwhile in the story, we changed out this character, so we're changing this feature". That might overlap a bit with the opening of the livestreams, but please don't stop trying to commentate videos in realtime, it's great!

 

I think that the livestreams are fantastic. I only caught episode 7 live, but I've watched all of them (a few times, actually). They were great since I got a bit of a late start in contributing to this project. It helped bring me up to speed on what systems were implemented and gave a good overview of the overall architecture...perfect jumping off point for making contributions. You guys have really nailed the livestreams. Fantastic job.

As I mentioned elsewhere on the forums, I think the Open Projects initiative is a stroke of genius. It's great for all skill levels. For me, it provides a structure that forces constant forward movement. I know that when I work on my own projects, I'm always taking one step forward and two steps back because I focus on perfecting systems before moving on...and that's when the dreaded scope creep comes in. But because there's a team behind this project, forward progress is always made. And I appreciate being able to contribute to a project that might ACTUALLY be completed some day.

One thing that I do think might help a bit is if the maintainers of the GitHub repositories posted on this forum how they are planning to evolve the major branches over time. I'm not talking detailed posts for every little thing, but it might be helpful if there was a thread were you guys could post a one-sentence explanation of a change you are going to make...something like: "I'm working on a change that's going to move the DialogueLineSO component in ActorSO to another script." And that change might not happen for a few weeks or so, but at least we know it's coming. It's just a way to give a general idea of how parts of the main codebase are shifting around so that those submitting PRs can anticipate this. I just think there should be some place where we learn about implemented or planned changes to the main codebase which updates us more than every two weeks, which is what we get with the livestreams. Sure, we can keep up-to-date with the main repository, but that doesn't account for soon-to-come codebase changes.

The reason I say that is because if I'm working on a system that interacts with many other systems (as I have detailed in this post: https://forum.unity.com/threads/localized-phoneme-mood-pose-expression-system.1044784/), I'd like to stay on top of what changes I need to make to my codebase so that its compatible. I don't want the PR-merging team to have to take care of this because it's my submission. I'd like to submit something complete and working, and make sure it's not a headache for those testing it out. Furthermore, if I know how a codebase is going to change in advance, I might decide on a completely different architecture for my contributions.

Also, since it takes a lot of effort to keep our PRs up-to-date with the latest version of the ever-evolving codebase, I think it would be great if we would have a little early feedback on whether the team generally likes the contribution or doesn't see it fitting in with the project. I get that everyone is busy, but just a simple like on a forum post could be an indicator that the team generally likes the direction the contribution is going, but hasn't had time to review the PR yet. Or maybe a comment: "Before you develop this system further, please wait for us to give you feedback on the PR"...which is basically a nice way of saying I'm not sure this is going to fit. It doesn't have to be definitive either way, but just a hint of right track / wrong track would be helpful. But then again, this is my first contribution and it was only within the last couple days...I'm not sure how long it normally takes the team to review a PR. I just don't want to put in a lot of time maintaining something if it's going nowhere. Limbo is a hard place to be in and with very sporadic free time, I want to make sure that I'm spending it doing useful work.

But I get all of that is adding more on top of a team that probably has more than enough to deal with right now. And if that's the case, then that's okay. Just wanted to give my two cents...you guys asked for it, after all! =D

At any rate, thank you. You guys have changed the game with this new initiative. I'm looking forward to continuing to evolve this project and see what else is in the pipeline for Open Projects!

 

Here is my feedback about the different topics:

The game development process of Chop Chop
- I know it is difficult to manage all the community contributions, but given the time it takes to review PRs, it is really difficult to do incremental delivery. Maybe it is fine but it will be good to have just a bit more feedback from the core team when you start looking at a PR, just to stop working at it (refactoring it / continue to add more functionalities on top of it)
- Given the core team is key in the integration of community contribution, maybe share a bit more transparently what the core team is busy on (working on a particular part of the game, livestream preparation, other unity task (GGJ?)) just to understand your capacity to interact with the community over the week.

Handling of the forums, communication
- Forum is really active and you already do your maximum to reply to most of the posts and the community is helping a lot here too.
- About Codecks, I have the feeling that is a bit too static between 2 livestreams and tasks are not enough split according to me. I know it will require extra time for you to maintain them, but I think it would help on focusing the community on what can be really do and see things progressing.

The bi-weekly livestreams ("Open Projects: The Journey")
- They are just really cool!
- It is cool also to see more and more big sections related to community based contributions

The monthly Devlogs and related demo branches
- They are really good and the short format balanced very well the long livestream content.
- They provide a valuable and precise insight on key features of the project. I guess it helps people to join the project after it started.
- Also When this project will be over they will remain a mine of information on particular aspects of the game development.

 

Lives and devlogs are going great but sometimes the topics are a little too technical to grasp if it is the very first time hearing about it.

For the forums, some restructuring is needed.
If you could divide the open projects forum further into project 1, 2, 3 and so on.

And then every project could itself be divided into a brainstorming thread, an official discussion thread and two development threads, one each for code and art.

You can appoint most experienced members of the community to moderate the forums, this way some of your load can be taken off.

 

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy this project and the live streams too - but to be told please follow the discussion on twitter on top of the live streams, the codecks, the wiki, the ever increasing number of forums threads and discord is putting me off somewhat...
Can't we at least keep the discussion somewhat together?

 

Hi, l am loving this project awesome job to everyone l have been following the project from the being and watching the Live steamers and devlogs. l have a suggestion could you please small devlogs that show in full detail how to set up the characters to make them move when l download the project on git nothing will be setup so have to rewatch the live steamers just look on how you have set the chief character to move which scripts l need to attach to the chief prefab of which you don't go upstep by upstep in detail on how you got the character to move or which scripts l have to attach to enemies to make them attack which is why we need the less technical smaller devlogs.

 

We've read the feedback (and hopefully acted on it a little as well) but I never said "thanks", it's very good. Also thanks for the numerous compliments, Amel, Chema and I really appreciate them!

As I understand it, main point of criticism is that you want to understand better what's going on to be able to contribute better, either with faster feedback on your PRs and contributions, or with us explicitly saying what we're working on that you might not see in the immediate. It's a good point. Tomorrow I have a sync with the team so we might start posting these plans in the Updates thread.

If you have more feedback or it evolved over time, feel free to drop it here

We can't create a devlog on every little detail (also because they change all the time!) but for your specific question, we have some instructions in the wiki. Does that help?

 

Ciro,

The project has been a lot of fun to work on.

The live streams are a really great tool for so many reasons. As a contributor, it really helps me to see the status of the contributions at a given time so I can allocate my efforts accordingly. It is also especially helpful in such a visual and user-based project such as this because we all can easily see the visuals and hear the audio and get the core team's take on these types of things.

It is also cool to see a lot of little UI/UX considerations flagged by contributors. It makes it feel like we are almost user testing and contributing at the same time, which is a huge advantage this project has. On that note, I think having this game as an open source project has been a major success from my view.

Thanks!

 

Hey @cirocontinisio , I just wanted to ask a series of questions, which came into my mind while I was exploring the project ( I finally managed to fetch, if you wonder).

1. I saw that for faking distant, or next location geometry, you baked those things into the skybox. I know all that reflection probe and cubemap stuff, but I wonder how you exactly placed the Lightmap, say in the Town market scene to bake it into the skybox and used that skybox in the Town (scene after the beach and the glade, if I am correct) Scene, to create the correct illusion. Same goes for the forest, we can see forest from the town scene in the skybox where it exactly would supposed to be.

2. I noticed that all of the landmasses (beach, town, or all the grounds) were having meshes names as ProBuilder. Which means you have created those lands in Unity using Probuilder (and painted using Polybrush?). Is that Possible?

3. And on kind request, if possible. I looked at all those amazing Water shaders, wind enabled plants and all other interesting shaders. I don't know about shader graph much, but I have used shader graph and VFX graphs a couple of times, so I know the basics. I couldn't understand a thing. I tried to find that how the waves were created or how those plants moved etc. But I was unable to understand.
So it would be nice if we have some text explanation of each section, or more specifically, each node is doing what in each shader, how are the things working etc.

Thanks

 

It is very sad, I was looking for new episode to explore new game components. But after all, these were really cool for us who unity developer. Thank all of you, you did great job

 

Yeah, great job guys. Time to raid those assets!

 

@cirocontinisio Is it possible to turn the open project platform open? I mean if indie studios need more people they can hop in an lead aspiring devs to realise and actual ip.
If an individual has an idea he can pitch it here to ask for people to join in their endeavor.

Even if we can't blow this initiative into something big, can individuals announce further open projects for the community using these forums?

 

Hey aby, what do you mean by keeping it open? If we're talking about the code, on Github, anyone can always for the entire project and make it theirs. There's no restriction on that.

The roadmap on Codecks is a bit more complicated, since their paid plan is per-user and it would be impossible for us to keep users "open" and "shared" with the community.

But yeah, as I said, anyone can fork the code and create their version of the game or just finish what we were building.

I don't think this would be possible. It would create confusion with the current project, plus, if it's not organised by Unity then it shouldn't be hosted/promoted as something official.

And on the other hand however, tools like Github, forums, even Codecks to a certain degree, they are all free; so anyone can start an open source Unity project any day. We have a sub-forum to look for non-paid collaborations, or one could spread the voice on Unity's Discord too.
The problem is more the planning, and the long-term effort to maintain it.

 

Is the open project Chop Chop dead by now? The repo has not seen any update in months and it seems like things are closed down on your end?

 

What I meant was if we can continue to use these forums to work on more open projects on our own.
All that would be expected of unity reps would be to correct us if we handle any stage of production wrongly.
My intent is this initiative should not die.

 

I wasn't personally involved in this project, however I was observing the progress from time to time and I wanted to drop a few words of feedback.

First of all, as @cirocontinisio said in other post, goal of this project was to explore many modules of unity and it has been "achieved" and I can mostly agree with that. However in reality this is just another unifinished thing started by Unity. Please, Unity, start finishing your projects, packages, pipelines, everything
Ok, but on more serious note - in my opinion it would be better to pick smaller project and bring it to life from the start to the end, and here is why:

1. Amount of scripts and any assets is smaller, so it is way easier to find yourself among all of these
2. Everything would be more simple, easier to maintain, comment, and therefore to learn and understand.
   
3. Project is more appealing and greater real learning value - it shows real pipeline of building games. I think everyone knows how to start, no one knows how to end. Furthermore many aspects of development are never touched, because they show up in the last stage. It's like school curriculum, you repeat the same content every year, but no one actually touched last pages of the textbook.
   
4. It would really prove, that all aspects/modules of Unity work correctly (or require fixes).

Maybe this feedback sounds a bit negative, but still I really liked this initiative, youtube series and the fact it happened at all. I hope for more to come in the future.

 

I kind of agree with that, but it is more the way that towards the end of a project the mistakes that have been made in the beginning fall on your feet. Along the way, when things get more complex and a few Unity updates have come in, Unity projects tend get unstable. You spend more time fixing things that worked before than making any progress. Also the typical performance issues only set in when there is significant amount of stuff to render.

This project in this regard is a good example of things missing, that I should better do in my next project:
- find some original game idea that is fun. An arbitrary assortment of standard features typically used in games might work for a demonstration but doesn't necessarily make an interesting game.
- proof of concept/prototype core mechanics to check it's fun - you don't want to waste your efforts on something that is boring to begin with
- define and minimalize the scope: "The project is done when it has 1., 2, ... and x" and then - the harder part - stick to it (with the only exception of essential things missing)
- define an extenable overall architecture
- define a color scheme
- make a triangle budget for scenes and roughly define the number of triangles appropriate for each asset before making it
- systematic use of LOD and "triangle-saving" shaders
- automatic testing and systematic manual testing (following a plan)
- early performance testing
- early systematic playtesting (following questions for playtesting)

 

Mostly yes, and this is why small project would be perfect as there is no need to fix or improve many things and attention can be put into Unity (and tools) itself.
Also I don't expect this game to be fun, it can be the most boring crap as long as it works (and done in 100%).

 

@Smurjo what do you think about starting a new project just to explore our extents?

 

In principle yes. I will not be able to contribute as much though, since I have a challenging new job. I have also started a new game project together with my son (After btw finishing and releasing my last game on itch.io as christmas present for friends and family - of smaller scope than this vertical slice but more unique).

 

Well timings can be worked out once we have roles assigned, for which we need more people.
@itsLevi0sa what do you think about it?

 

Greetings everyone... For me, this project is out of my reaches dues to its size, my network bandwidth, hardware requirements etc.. I may be able to contribute to some extent, but I am also restricted due to my studies.
Slow and steady, removing problematic parts in the game, making it stable... we may be able to actually release it as a fully playable game (Chop-Chop), but probably at a reduced level.

Anyways, if anyone here needs my help in anything (related to open-projects or not), I will try my best to do help...

Btw, here is the game that I submitted for the Github Gameoff 2021, got #177th rank overall among 530 entries)
https://itch.io/jam/game-off-2021/rate/1300609
Thanks.

 

We can certainly use the art assets of Chop-Chop, but if we go to the trouble of making a game in my opinion it should have something original thats makes it fun to play at least for 15 minutes or so.

 

Honestly I believe it is easier to excite people about a complete game.
Even if it is just an endless runner or match 3 puzzle.
How about a total game span of 10hrs but we release 1hr worth of game play in 10 different installments. It doesn't have to be weekly or monthly, we could decide on release interval.
And I agree on the point about original ip we should cohesively work the pitch and story and then also make a GDD to make it easier for total beginners if they wish to follow.
Though if a lot members here want to see something based of chop chop be shipped that would be fun too, specially if we make a complete game out of it.

 

Yes, Infact each and every asset of this project is worth using. We can make up an entirely new game too using the things we have in our hands already....

Is someone is already with some story, concept or anything else in his/her minds?
Or we will be recreating Chop-Chop (beacuse I think making the current project better will be a huge pain...)

What do you people think?

 

Engaging gameplay with reduced workload on ourselves, it's a great idea.

 

I was hoping we first create a playground style small group where we brainstorm on ideas and then divide roles according to what assets need to be created.
To divide into departments we will need to reach out to more people. We will also need to appoint team leaders or department heads.
Maybe we make a discord and invite through the introduce yourself thread.

 

Yes, @deivsky, @MortyJHin, @danten66 @Smurjo , @itsLevi0sa and others that I probably forgot. If we all wanna revive this great project.

 

Also, I don't know if it is ok to ask, but one of my school friends is currently working on his story, which we all friends are eventually going to make an animated videos out of it (don't know if it is actually be the reality?). But once he creates a solid base of his story, we can also think upon that.... (If that's OK)

 

You can surely ask him if he is comfortable including us and share his story. Or we could bring him in round two to write our story when we have an idea locked in. Will he be able to adapt manuscript to an interactive medium?
We could bring in newer people through the unity discord also.

 

Sure I will ask him and let you all know...

 

I asked him, and he replied:

Well, the base is ready, the story too is 75% complete (but character names are yet not decided and a few more things). I will try to send you till Sunday evening.
in terms of characters design, its yet to be drawn.
​

See the main issue is we are currently having our exams and we also have to study and complete the syllabus in relatively less time (thanks to covid-19, off course). So you can except delays from him and me too...
I told him that here many people in the community will discuss about the story, character, places, things etc. names.
More importantly, on one hand here we will be making 3d-assets for the game according to the story, this will, on other hand, help me to make 2d-animations.
Concept arts made here by @arunchahar (do you remember him?) will also assist me and my friends!

@Smurjo, what do you say about this plan? We have to let more people join us here.

 

Sounds good so far... and a lot of work. Which kind of gameplay will work with the story?

 

We could do something like genshin impact. Releasing few quests everytime to further unlocking of a geographical portion.
I was thinking we will need more experienced members to initially host tutorials in various applications for leveling the field for newcomers.
So we can initiate with tutorials and ask interested audience what departments they will like to work under. This way we can divide teams without a hassle.
Team divisions can be different discord channels with moderators as department head.

 

Hello folks! Happy to see notifications from here after a long good rest. Hope you are all doing ok and have a good year so far. Read the feedbacks, and wanted to give some back. Mainly to the community in general.

I hope everyone here would still like to see ChopChop progress and even become released. The team did their best, and certainly went beyond their capabilities (in regards to time investment) just to let us see how it is to take part in every aspect of dev, not without a cost. They could have been less “democratic” and achieve many other things but it wouldn’t have been this beneficial for us to gain experience, which was part of the main goal of this project.

So why is not anyone looking at the project for what it actually is right now and what has been achieved?

Not to discourage anyone, but people, we have a game already shaped. With a world and characters and story and quests and UI and functional systems and a roadmap with tasks that took A YEAR to get there. Yet everyone has their own ideas of fun, of aesthetics, of what makes a good game good. Well, now is your chance to put it into actual practice and see its effect to the whole. Starting a new project or a complete new story (with new quests, new items, new locations/characters etc) won’t get you any step further to this. Why not continue with the base that people worked for a year for us to have. And prove (to yourself) that you can find and add something that could help make it better. Not with words and “what if’s” and "not-dipping-toes-in" observations. YOU. Your skill level is not an excuse to hold you back, everyone starts somewhere and everything is welcomed. You are here because you want to game dev. So let’s game dev and actually deal with the hardships instead of escaping them. Bit by bit.

 

Returning to the very basic thing that concerns us after the announcement:
How could we possibly continue contributing to ChopChop now that we can’t have PR’s reviewed on Unity’s Github?
My answer: We can’t. From now on folks, it's a solo project.

BUT, that doesn’t mean you actually have to work on it alone. ​

We have many tasks still left undone, and from now on it’s a matter of personal interest and persistence on what task anyone might want to tackle. But how could we share and access each other’s work if someone makes new attempts to make the project progress?
I have 2 solutions in mind:

1. When it comes to any ie. new assets, animation fbx etc, we could simply post a personal link for the rest of us to access and download (like GoogleDrive). The tricky part is to be able to have a common folder where all art contributions could be gathered together to keep track of and access. Perhaps we could request both an upload in a public, editable/shared folder and also a personal non-editable link for download as a backup if the public folder becomes erased/inaccessible for whatever reason.
2. Our forks. If anyone might want to try something, ie. making Hamlet swim and creates a new branch named Swimming, and posts it on the forum and publishes it, then people could either create PRs to one another to use it/contribute to it or simply access that specific repo’s branch-> download it and import it in their own local project-> then push it back up in their own repo. If I understand how Github works correctly. So every new feature anyone makes can be “passed on” thus making the overall project progress, in hope that inevitable conflicts will be resolved. Long shot, I know.

So the hard part is that from now on, nobody will be responsible on assembling what we make in a coherent whole and guide the process. There is simply no way we can “assign” to a person the burden of having an active Github fork to review and accept everyone’s PRs. BUT, we all have our own project versions/visions of it. The key here is communication.
Whoever makes anything related to this project, should post and share work here in the forum. The most valuable asset we have is each other’s feedback and skills.
So, if we all agree, we could make one attempt to help new people that might want to jump in to know what this was about without watching every livestream:
Thinking of a small trailer explaining briefly the overall story and what we have so far with in-game shots, so any newcomers can become familiar with the project and see where they could contribute, along with some guidelines on how to share their work from now on.

Thoughts?

 

Okay @itsLevi0sa, continuing the project was my first idea also.. and it's probably fine. But @aby_gamemaker said that we should work on a new project. Now what should I tell to my friend. Are we going to make a new project after this one.

And thinking practically, do you really think that everything you mentioned in your last post (all that Github and Main project management thing) is possible ???

 

Anyone is welcome to do whatever they feel like doing. A new project though, is irrelevant to ChopChop and thus shouldn't be discussed here but rather here as mentioned above .

I obviously don't expect this project to go any further than what it went. But if anyone actually works on a project task we might want to consider the option of sharing and accessing that work since it's an open source project. Nobody is asked to manage anything, it's solo now. And I can't think of any other way other than links for assets or our personal repos updates to do so. Personally, I am happy to share any new things I might try occasionally here and there in regards to this project. No pressure. No time frame. Just for fun. And hope I'll see other's work too.

 

Regarding discussing it here, I joined the forums during the open projects and I have only been active in this section, so I was pretty sure this was the place to regroup everyone who has contributed before.
Also by the new project I meant naming it open projects 2. That is why I had asked Ciro if we could do it under open projects umbrella.
Maintaining git will be a challenge, yes, but we can find volunteers down the road.
That is why I wanted to put together a team and right away divide departments and team leaders. We would need at least 20-30 people to join for starters.
If it is irrelevant for the forums we can move the initial discussions to an exclusive discord.

 

It's great to see a comprehensive implementation of the ScriptableObject event architecture in an open source game project, because we can learn how to build a highly modular game from scratch.

Hopefully the next open project focuses on DOTS, performance and high-end graphics quality, instead of modularity.

 

Hi l am not sho if this is the right place to ask, they're a way of building out the game without
Visual Studio 2015 with C++ compilers and Windows 10 SDK most people's computers and laptops do not have space to install Visual Studio 2015 with C++ compilers and Windows 10 SDK like mine l have been following this project since it started but l can't build out without installing Visual Studio 2015 with C++ compilers and Windows 10 SDK is they a way of building out with the normal unity windows builder, please help Thanks.

 

You could build directly in Unity editor... don't need those fancy stuff (even my laptop can't handle the too)
Do you know how to build project in unity???

 

Hey l final figure it out l change IL2CPP to use Mono and changed .Net 4 to .Net standard 2.0 it built ok crazey a whole year trying to build-out

Thank for the reply and yes l know how to build out each time l tried to build out it could give me an error says l have to install Visual Studio 2015 with C++ compilers and Windows 10 SDK