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[Feedback Friday #72] - Happy Halloween [10/19/2018]

Discussion in 'Game Design' started by Gigiwoo, Oct 19, 2018.

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  1. Gigiwoo

    Gigiwoo

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    Feedback Friday #72 is closed until November 16th, 2018.

    **********

    How bout we skip the intro? The leaves are turning, the fall grind is in full swing, and it's time for some spooky Halloween Fun. Good luck.

    Gigi.

    ----

    Want design feedback for your new game? Then you've found the right thread! Post here to get precious player feedback. Discuss until we lock the thread to start the two week break.

    How To Ask For Feedback
    • Show - Pics, videos, or best of all, a playable game!
    • Be Concise - Who's got time for Wall 'O Text? Less is more
    How To Give Feedback
    • Be Positive - Finding redeeming qualities in the worst of games, is in itself a game
    • Focus On The Design - Not the designer
    • Be Specific - "Your game sucks!" is for nubs
    What To Show
    • Minimally Viable Product (MVP) - Core game play >>> everything else
    • How To Scope Small (Unity tutorial)
    Gigi

    [PS - Feedback Friday #71 is here]
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
  2. Marrt

    Marrt

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    We just started a tiny beta for our game, enjoy

    feature_graphic.jpg
    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.marrtgames.wastelanddash

    Videos of older versions posted at FF#67:
    https://forum.unity.com/threads/fee...om-a-thing-anywhere-else.534197/#post-3529048
    https://forum.unity.com/threads/fee...om-a-thing-anywhere-else.534197/#post-3529493

    disclaimers:
    - Beta is available in Canada, US, UK, Germany, Austria and Switzerland. If i should add your country just tell me, takes about an hour or two until its live
    - the primary goal of the beta is to get feedback about the input methods, content wise there is not much to do after the tutorial apart from upgrading your ship
    - the next thing we do is finishing off these modules: Store-presence, Encounters, Quests, Challenges, Enemies, Ray/Rocket-Weapons...

    EDIT: Here i keep a list of the discovered bugs in the current Version "BETA-V15"
    • Aimguide jumps around occasionally (that's the yellow targeting circle) - will be fixed in V16
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2018
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  3. Serinx

    Serinx

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    I'm back again, with something you can play this time! As long as you don't mind a few bugs :p
    I'd appreciate some feedback on the potion crafting and combat mainly.
    It's very raw but I'd love to have some input before I venture down a path of bad decisions...

    You can download Devolution_v03.zip from my itch page here:
    https://serinox.itch.io/devolution

    Thanks
     
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  4. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    Haven't been here in a long time. Where are the Halloween games?
     
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  5. Magician_Arcana

    Magician_Arcana

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    Hi all! I'm looking for feedback on my 3D platformer that I am calling Radical Adventure for now.

    To sum up what this game will be about: Radical Adventure is a fast paced and exciting 3D action platformer in which the player takes control of three different characters with their own play styles and experience a story for multiple perspectives.

    For this platformer I wanted a very particular kind of character controller. One that would allow the player to easily run on walls and through loops. I went through five iterations of a character controller until I settled on one. For most of my attempts I used a rigidbody to handle the physics, but Unity's rigidbody physics conflicted too much with what I was trying to accomplish, so I had to code the physics myself. So that means this game has a lot of custom movement and will require a lot of tweaking going forward. This is why I'm looking for feedback.

    And even though you can play this game with a keyboard, I'd HIGHLY recommend you play with a gamepad. It supports PS4, Xbox 360, and Xbox One controllers. Also if you want to try the split screen mode, I'd recommend downloading one of the builds I put up on my Itch page. The game is browser playable, but that mode is not optimized for the browser.

    You can find a demo of the game here: https://zlsinger.itch.io/radical-adventure-working-title

    01.png
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  6. Marrt

    Marrt

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    Do you know any worthwhile seasonal game?
     
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  7. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    Not off the top of my head. i know I can find some easily enough on GameJolt and itch.io so each year I just look there. I thought maybe somone might be creating a new holiday game here though. Usually I start seeing at least one on each game dev forum.
     
  8. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Elf Bowling 2.
     
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  9. Serinx

    Serinx

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  10. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    Take this with a grain of thought since the only time I play mobile games is testing for game devs...

    I thought it looked very visually interesting. The ship and environment are really good... nice color choices, great design.

    I was never able to target the circles once they started moving. Controlling the ship by tilting the phone was very weird to me. I just wanted to have a v-stick and buttons and start flying around and shooting blowing things up. Lol

    I did better using my thumb but still it was very hard to control. This is probably just due to my lack of mobile gaming. Bit of a shame because it did look like it might be a lot of fun (if it actually does let you fly around blowing things up).

    Sorry I couldn't give you more useful feedback but maybe there is something there of value.
     
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  11. Marrt

    Marrt

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    No problem, this is good feedback. We occasionally get people that cannot handle the controls in a way that it makes them fail the tutorial-task of following the circle. Mostly people just needed to invert the axes at the second step, that's why we added it after some test cycles. Earlier, i was strictly against the axis switching, because it adds a special layer of complexity to the tutorial. But after about 50 people giving a bit of feedback we realized that it was absolutely mandatory.

    But adding a non-motion-sensing-control-method is something we will not do. We believe that we have better knowledge of the customers needs than the customer himself (like Apple does :D). The game just isn't a good experience with touch aim only. Most games complement touch-aim with auto-aim or auto-shoot. But everything that takes away agency makes the player feel more like he is delegating commands to an avatar instead of being the avatar himself.

    Anyway, we might have lost you already, but once you would have gotten used to the controls you would have never ever wanted to play a game that requires precise touch-aim again. We know that this might put off some percentage of users, and the beta is to find out how many percent exactly.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
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  12. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    One of the best things I've read from a game dev in quite a while. I can respect that. You are exactly right. Makes sense to focus efforts on making the game better for the people who have no problem using (and may even prefer) your tilt control method instead of trying to cater to everyone.

    Good luck with it!
     
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  13. Marrt

    Marrt

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    Thanks! Luck is what i desperately need :D.

    I just hope i can deliver the planned content (Quest, Enemies & Stuff), because as of now my dev-build of the game is torn apart in some half assed preparation-state.
     
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  14. Magician_Arcana

    Magician_Arcana

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    @Serinx Thanks! I'll hopefully be able to playtest yours tonight as well.
     
  15. Magician_Arcana

    Magician_Arcana

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    @Serinx Your game is pretty cool so far! Seems like a nice start to a combat focused game. I guess I'll go ahead and list off the things I had trouble with and what I thought the strengths were.

    Things I had trouble with:
    • I didn't understand the point of taking the elevator down.
    • Countering seems like a welcome mechanic, but with the way enemy attack animations looked I wasn't sure how to time my blocks. So sometimes I just mashed the block button.
    • I feel like I wasn't getting enough feedback when landing my attacks because the enemies seemed unphased by them until they died.
    • When I first made a potion, I thought it would go right into my inventory. So it took me a bit to realize it was on the table in front of me and I had to pick it up after closing the potion mixing screen.
    Things I liked:
    • I liked the character models and running animations.
    • I thought the basic character locomotion felt good. It felt like it had weight.
    • Having to frantically mix potions between waves I think is a fun mechanic/idea.
    • I like how you keep the potion mixing screen simple and easy to understand.
    Some bugs I noticed just in case you haven't found them yet:
    • If I pause the game while on the potion mixing screen, then resume, the mouse gets locked in the center of the screen and I can't move it to click on any of the UI elements on the potion mixing screen.
    • In the second map, the one with a pool of water to the side, I sometimes I couldn't walk over the small barrier that surrounds the water. (I would walk over it to enter the pool of water, then I couldn't walk back right away. I would have to walk at a particular angle.)
     
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  16. Serinx

    Serinx

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    @Magician_Arcana Thanks so much for taking the time to playtest my game! I'll check yours out tonight.

    The elevator just reloads the level currently, and the walls are randomly selected - eventually this will be how you advance to the next level once you've defended a floor.
    I agree about the attack animations, I'll definitely be improving on those.
    Yeah the potion crafting is a bit clunky and frantic - I'm surprised you said you liked that it was frantic haha. Putting the potion straight into your inventory sounds like a good idea.
    I'll look into those bugs too :)
     
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  17. Serinx

    Serinx

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    @Magician_Arcana I had a play and filled out your Survey Monkey survey.

    This sort of reminds me of Crash Bandicoot cross with Trackmania! haha. It's definitely an interesting idea and I'd love to see where you go with it.

    I'll give you some extra feedback in the same format you gave me :)
    FYI, I played story mode with an Xbox controller and tried Faye and Lee

    Things I had trouble with:
    • I wasn't sure where to go at the start in story mode, it took me a while to find the forest race/tutorial - is that the only race?
    • Sometimes double jump wouldn't work, I'd have to spam the button
    • A description of the abilities in game would be helpful, I looked up your dev log to figure out some things
    • I wasn't a fan of the fixed camera in some segments of the race, it felt like I lost all control and was just watching my character running the track

    Things I liked:
    • The easy going atmosphere gives a nice nostalgic and peaceful vibe
    • The general movement and wall running were nice and fluid, the animations gave good feedback as to what phase of the jump I was in.
    • Chaining your jump dash attacks together with Faye was heaps of fun
    • Lee's spin basically turning him into a helicopter mid air gave me a good laugh when I figured that out :p

    Bugs:
    • With Faye, I managed to dash at an enemy (with A) after hitting it with my bubble (X) and I sort of stuck to it and flew along with it. Don't know if that's intentional haha
    • Sometimes when I attack it will keep spinning after releasing X and I couldn't stop it, other times it will stop when I release
    • When I hit the cars in my bubble in story mode, they slide away and go through the buildings - I'm not sure if that's what you intended.
    Hopefully some of that is helpful and useful for you :) Giving good feedback is surprisingly hard to do...
     
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  18. Magician_Arcana

    Magician_Arcana

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    Hmmm that's slightly concerning. You're talking about Lee's double jump I take it. Because it should be just as responsive as Faye's air dash attack since you initiate it the same way. I'll have to double check my code to see where and how I initiate the double jump. (Unless Faye's air dash attack was also unresponsive. Then I've got bigger problems lol)

    Oh that's sorta intentional lol I first discovered it by accident a while ago then implemented a fix. But I thought it was kinda funny so I added a bool I can use to turn that ability on or off. I guess I left it on in that build lol

    Oh with Lee I take it? That's strange I haven't had that happen before. Thanks for pointing this out I must be missing a transition from the attacking state to the noAttack state somewhere.

    Again, sorta intentional lol I want to let the player do that and knock things around in the environment just for fun. But I know that the way the cars move doesn't look great at the moment.

    Thanks a lot for the feedback! It's super helpful to know what people struggled with and what they liked so I know what to fix and what to focus on making better.
    Also it's helpful that you pointed out those few bugs. I'll have to try to recreate them myself next time I get the chance so I can fix them.
    Also I liked that you mentioned Crash Bandicoot. That and Sonic Adventure were my two primary sources of inspiration for this game. So I'm glad to know it had a nostalgic vibe which is kinda what I'm going for. (Something reminiscent of platformers from the 90s and early 2000s)
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
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  19. Magician_Arcana

    Magician_Arcana

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    Oh also, I regards to the feedback I gave, I don't think the potion necessarily needs to go right into the player's inventory. That was just my expectation for some reason. If placing it on the table so the player can pick it up whenever they want helps you better achieve your design goals keep it that way. I was just saying with the way it was presented I was expecting it to work differently. Maybe because of how small and easy to miss it was for me on the table? I can't be sure. I don't wanna start giving suggestions because you understand the inner workings and overall design of your game a lot better than I do.
     
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  20. Serinx

    Serinx

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    @Magician_Arcana I think the dash was a bit more responsive than the double jump. I should probably test my controller too.. I don't use it very often :p It's an Xbox 360 controller btw in case that makes the difference.

    I'm going to revamp the potion system, playtesters are saying that it seems weird to have to pick up the potion, equip it, then drink it. It might be better to instantly add it to your inventory, allow stacking potions, and use the potion as soon as you press the appropriate key. I'll try to get that in for the next playtest, as well as some better combat impact and readability :)
     
  21. Magician_Arcana

    Magician_Arcana

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    I mostly test the game with a PS4 controller, but I have a few 360 controllers I test with too. I mostly use them when testing the multiplayer.
    Every time I've asked others to play they haven't had issues with the double jump so I was wondering if it's because of a faulty A button. But considering the other character's air dash ability worked fine I'm gonna double check my code.

    And I guess it does sound like directly adding the potion to your inventory would help the flow of the game. Sounds like I'm not the only one who was sightly confused at first by that.
     
  22. Yrnaso

    Yrnaso

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    @Serinx First time giving feedback so if what I'm trying to say seems incoherent, I apologize. I really liked the game, and I appreciate that you made it so that the base form isn't completely outclasses by the others. Like Magician_Arcana, I was confused by the potion appearing on the table, as I expected that a drink option would just appear in the crafting UI once it was completed. I also shared the difficulty with countering, though it was functional. The forms work well, but the spiders secondary is hard to aim and I usually have to resort to tanking some damage to land it (not sure if that was the intention). A minor gripe I have is that when crafting the potions, although the recipes clearly show that only two instances of spore extract are used in each potion, the first pour has the vial appear like its 1/3 full more so than 1/2. The second pour also doesn't completely fill the vial, which bugs me a bit.

    Here's an idea that you might want to look into, if you find it interesting:
    Vomiting has additional effects based on the potion you've used
    • Lizard Vomit is similar to its secondary attack, but with a wider cone.
    • Spider Vomit webs all enemies hit, letting you combo it into a base form heavy attack. This webbing is of a much shorter duration than that of the secondary attack
    • Bear Vomit has a larger cone and pushes enemies back, giving you an opening to use another potion, or even craft one if you're quick enough.
    • Reflex Vomit has a smaller cone and slows down enemies hit temporarily. The slow is identical to the effects of the reflex potion.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
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  23. Serinx

    Serinx

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    @Yrnaso Thanks for that feedback, I really appreciate you taking the time :)

    It's good to know that a lot of people are struggling with the same things, that gives me a strong directive.

    I'll fill up the potions a bit more, I also noticed that but I just ignored it :p

    The different types of vomit are an interesting idea.. I wonder if it should only apply those extra effects if you have over 50% duration remaining though, or they should be weakened based on the remaining duration, otherwise vomiting at the end of the duration will give you a bit too much value out of the potion.
    I'll throw it on my todo list!
     
  24. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    @Magician_Arcana I tried out the web version and submitted feedback via your Survey.

    Summary is I played with keyboard, liked the feel of the character controller, thought the camera turn via arrows was too fast, liked running up buildings and the jump & double jump is very well done. Overall it is interesting. I have no idea where you are going with it but it will be interesting to try it again later on and see where you are at.
     
  25. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    @Serinx when I first started I kept pressing F because it said "Press F to go down". When I pressed F it seemed instead to just restart the level. When I actually went down by using W that worked fine.

    I really didn't get what was going on. I went to the table and mixed up a potion. Before I even had it complete I was surrounded by enemies beating on me. After a couple more tries I was able to at least get the potion I had created and get away from the table (and still always die). I didn't understand what the goal was or how I was to accomplish the goal. And didn't have time to look around the environment to get any clues.

    I liked the look of things and the idea of the player concocting potions to give themselves abilities to combat the monsters is very cool. It's unique.

    Alright that's all I got. It's not much I know but sums up my playtesting experience.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
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  26. Serinx

    Serinx

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    @GarBenjamin Thanks for taking the time! Ah yes I probably should have disabled the elevator for the playtest, it doesn't make much sense at this point "go down" refers to taking the elevator down :p

    I might work on a tutorial level soon, there isn't really enough time for players to work things out before the action starts!

    I'm glad you like the idea :)
     
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  27. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    I wasn't going to but I guess I will throw my game out here.

    I want to say right up front this game is not made with Unity so if that puts you off to playtesting it I get it and no worries.

    Did you know the term Tower Defense is actually trademarked by a company? Another unfortunate case where apparently someone clueless about the meaning of such things in games made the decision. :(

    Anyway, I thought I'd like to create a defense game that is more interesting to me than the majority I have tried and one that would have more appeal to retro gamers in general. I asked myself the question: if there had been a defense game made for arcade machines what would that have been like... the essence of it?

    This game is my answer to that question. An ultra lowrez 128x90 resolution game that attempts to create more of a balance between strategy and an "arcade action" feel. Some of it will remind you of DOS games as well. Mainly the Learn section. What a pain in the ass it was doing all of that but I thought it was needed.

    Yeah we had Rampart back in the day and that is the game that established the TD genre as well as the turn-based gameplay. My goal here is to create a similar but unique experience with a very streamlined control system, no countdown to next wave, not turn-based, etc.


    Here is the Title Screen
    Note: the black border is only to combat the white background on the page here.


    Here is an example of gameplay at later levels


    Here is a gif from an earlier version before multiple rounds of polish were added that shows the actual size of the game.
    I've found it very interesting to create a game in this tiny screen size.



    HERE IS WHAT I'D LIKE FEEDBACK ON

    Don't feel like you have to answer all of these. Answer one of them, two of them, whatever is convenient for you.
    • Controls... obviously it will take a bit to get used to it since this is completely new game to you... but after a bit of playing does interacting with the game feel natural so you can focus on your command decisions of building, repairing, upgrading and destroying?

    • Strategy... even in these early levels there are multiple ways to layout your units and upgrade them to create a winning strategy. Did you find one that you like the best?

    • "Arcade action" feel... did you get any arcade action vibe from the game as compared to other defense games you have played?

    • Confusing things... anything that was confusing to you and what you think I can do to improve that

    • Poor feedback... any area of the feedback you feel is particularly lacking

    • NAY... What you liked least about this game

    • YEA... What you liked the most about the game

    Well that's it. Appreciate anyone giving it a try. Especially if you fit one of these: appreciate retro style games, aren't a big fan of "normal" defense games or really love "normal" defense games.

    You can try it out here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
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  28. Serinx

    Serinx

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    @GarBenjamin

    • Controls seems fairly intuitive, I skipped the learn part but managed to work it out pretty quickly :p

    • Strategy There wasn't much strategy involved, the towers seems to have a specific purpose and an appropriate slot on the board, so I didn't really need to think about where I would palce towers.
      I assume more towers and more decisions will come later?
      Also, howcome some slots were disabled at the start? is that just for the learning phase?

    • "Arcade action" feel Yes it definitely has an arcade feel, I haven't played much old school arcade games but the sound and visuals seem pretty spot on.

    • Confusing things Maybe not what you're going for, but healthbars or some indicator of the enemy hp would be good imo, just in case you're on that boss battle and you need to decide whether to build a new tower or save your money.

    • Poor feedback I wasn't sure what way the tower was facing when I placed it at first, had to look a bit closer. Maybe a brightly colored arrow or something would be helpful?

    • NAY Lack of options

    • YEA Simple and intuitive
    Great little game so far, looking forward to more updates! (Even though it's not Unity :p)
    Following you on itch
     
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  29. Serinx

    Serinx

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    Quick update, here's a video showing a new sword weapon to demonstrate the new cleave damage system and animations on a big mob of mole men!

     
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  30. Magician_Arcana

    Magician_Arcana

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    @GarBenjamin Thanks for the feedback! I'll be sure to check out your more detailed response on the survey. And hopefully I'll be able to playtest your game tonight.

    I think once I have a vertical slice put together, where I'm going with the game will become more clear. I have a lengthy game design document that outlines all my plans. This is the first time I have a very clear vision of what I wanna make.
     
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  31. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    Thank you @Serinx

    There are 4 different types of units (which some may call towers). Each of those can be upgraded to level 5. Each upgrade increases their range, attack speed and higher levels damage as well.

    There are only 3 "build" spots available when the game begins. The red markers are the build spots currently not available (I guess the fellas haven't had a chance to prep the ground yet but the commander has the design spec at least). The first additional build spot becomes available after completing day 2. Every few days a new one is ready.

    The enemies will have health bars like the defensive units. This is also a common request so definitely should do that soonish.

    Cool I will look into making the direction the first 3 unit types are currently facing more obvious.

    Thanks for taking the time to give it a play and give your feedback! :)

    EDIT: @Serinx that was a solid idea about making it much clearer which way the unit is currently facing. I needed to do a few updates on the Learn screens so implemented an animation on the cursor for that as well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
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  32. Gigiwoo

    Gigiwoo

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    I was worried. I had a busy couple weeks, with school and Unite, which meant I hadn't kept an eye on this thread. Come back to find lots of new games, tons of cross feedback, and a healthy, vibrant community helping each other to become better game designers. Nailed it!

    Gigi
     
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