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[Feedback Friday #26] - May 22, 2015

Discussion in 'Game Design' started by Gigiwoo, May 22, 2015.

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  1. Gigiwoo

    Gigiwoo

    Joined:
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    Want design feedback for your new game? Then you've found the right thread! Post here to get precious player feedback. Discuss until next Friday, when we'll lock the old and start anew.

    How To Ask For Feedback?
    • Show - Be Interesting! Pics, videos, or best of all, a playable game!
    • Be Concise - Who's got time for Wall 'O Text? Less is more
    • Read This - More guidance in superpig's post
    How To Give Feedback?
    • Be Positive - Finding redeeming qualities in the worst of games, is in itself a game
    • Focus On The Design - Not the designer
    • Be Specific - "Your game sucks!" is for nubs
    What To Show?
    • Minimally Viable Product (MVP) - Core game play >>> everything else
    • How To Scope Small (Unity tutorial)
    Gigi

    [PS - Feedback Friday #24 is here]
     
  2. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2013
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    Okay, so two weeks ago I told you that I started a little side project. I believe interaction is the essence of a game and because of this I am a fan of more interaction and better AI. You see "better" AI supports "better" interaction... at least in my opinion. And I am not talking about advanced whitepaper academic AI theories here. Just some basic common sense AI.

    The shmup genre has evolved into basically just bullet hell. It's all about wowing players (viewers?) with dramatic weapon and explosion FX. Sending out a mass of truly fantastic looking things that have as much intelligence as a leaf falling off a tree.

    So, this project is an experiment to test this theory: Can we make a better shmup by focusing on the AI and interaction first and foremost?

    I am now at 26 hours on this project... Simple Scrolling Shooter:

    My first round on this I focused on just getting some basic assets together and getting the foundation of AI in place.

    This week I tweaked the AI a bit more and I focused on other aspects of interaction.

    So, it is a shmup... what would it be like if we had another objective besides just blowing crap up?

    Let's find out. Your goal now is to rescue your allies who have been captured by the enemy and placed inside energy shield prisons. You can see one in this screenshot:



    Your main weapon is useless (in fact at this point it won't even detect collisions).
    Fortunately, you have a secondary ability, a ray that shoots out below your ship.
    By moving into position over the ally you will be able to use your ray to release your ally.



    And of course, you still want to avoid the enemy shots and blow crap up.

    Interaction can occur in different ways. Often we tend to think only in terms of game mechanics. When I think about interacting with an enemy I also think about a conversation. What might they say to me?

    This version of the game explores this angle as well. Again just some simple stuff and inspired by memories of playing Berzerk long ago. ;)

    So, that's it.

    Feel free to check it out and let me know what you think.

    Basically I am looking for feedback on:

    1. Compared to other shmups you have played does it seem more engaging?
    2. Was your game experience a little more Interesting?
    3. Did you get caught up in the game and before you knew it you had reached the end (no more enemies coming out) or did you lose interest very quickly?

    CONTROLS:


    Move your ship with the Arrow Keys or WASD.
    Fire with X, Space or Enter (Return).
    Activate Ray with C, Left Alt, Right Alt or Right Shift.

    A few logical control schemes would be:

    MOVE / FIRE / RAY
    WASD / Space / Left or Right Alt
    WASD / Enter / Right Shift
    Arrow keys / X / C (this should be very familiar if you play retro games online)
    Arrow keys / Space / Left or Right Alt

    However, you can use any combo that works best for you.

    Alright that's it. You can... play the game here!

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2015
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  3. Aiursrage2k

    Aiursrage2k

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    I did play it but didnt reach the end of the level, it became a bit monotonous after a while, theres only 2 enemy types so far (I thought it was simply looping but kept playing until I found new enemies and formations). I guess because there was no deaths, powerups and the same thing repeating over and over again

    Try adding a bar at the top like the screenshot that shows where you are, where the end of the level is (and maybe where you died last time). If you want to make more addicting try adding in some "upgrades", you get money when you kill things. When you die you can use em to upgrade your ship and get further the next time.
     

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  4. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    Yeah I notice the same thing when I play it. I've only been focused on the interaction and AI aspects and when playtesting I have been thinking there really needs to be some ship upgrades / power ups to collect. Because again that is just another form of interaction and the next logical step.

    It's just been an experiment really and if I go ahead and turn it into a real game project I will definitely give stats and upgrades of one kind or another. Probably a ship armor or shield and a few different weapon systems with multiple upgrade levels.

    Thanks for taking the time to play it and give feedback!
     
  5. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2013
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    16,860
    @GarBenjamin To be honest it didn't feel all that much different from a standard shooter. Enemies pretty much did nothing till I attacked them. And after I attacked them their actions seemed pretty scripted.

    Some general thoughts on options for building an AI for space invaders. Make what you will of them
    • Enemies could know where the player is and avoid being in the firing arc
    • Enemies could know how often they can shoot. Have enemies evade the player normally, then swoop in to shoot when there weapon is charged
    • Enemies could work as a team. Instead of firing as individuals at the target, consider firing in a volley. If every enemy fired at once around the player position it would actually be more challenging to avoid being hit then every enemy firing at once at the player position
     
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  6. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    These are all great ideas and a little more involved than the focus of this experiment. I intentionally kept the AI simple as that was the focus of the experiment. To see if just a little more intelligence so the enemies were a little more interactive than they normally are in shmups would make a more engaging game or at least make the enemies a little more interesting.

    The same for the added mechanic of releasing your imprisoned allies. It is just enough to test to find out how much it adds to a shmup if there is just a little more to do than destroying enemies and dodging masses of bullets.

    Thanks for checking it out and providing feedback!


    What I get from the feedback so far:

    Adding a little AI to the enemies makes a little difference in how engaging / interesting the enemies are compared to the mindless enemies in a standard shmup.
    A little AI and a little more interaction make the game feel a little different from a standard shmup.

    I have been trying to keep this experiment as minimal as possible with only one enemy displaying any sign of intelligence and the other enemy providing a little more interaction than a normal shmup enemy in that it responds to being hit instead of just continuing on until it explodes. I think this perhaps makes it difficult to judge because people play a game as a whole. I am focused on specifically the one enemy here and comparing it to any one standard non-boss enemy in a normal shmup. In this context there is a very big difference both visually and in how engaging the enemy feels to me.

    The best way for me to do this experiment is probably to increase the scale to include 2 to 3 AI enemies and include 2 to 3 normal shmup pattern-based enemies. Maybe make the first minute or so of the game with the normal enemies and then introduce the AI enemies.
     
  7. Mothil

    Mothil

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    Looks like I found my way into this one as well!
    Here is my latest build: HERE.
    Haven't had the time to work on it as much as I want to, but quite a few
    things have changed from last week. Feel free to take a look. :)

    GarBenjamin: Just tried it, and I gotta say it was fun! Regarding your questions,these are my answers:
    1. I haven't played that many shmups. At all. Two things made me a bit more interested. One, you could rescue allies. I'm a fan of having multiple objectives, so that's a big plus from me. Second - The pear shoots back per shot, which provided a really nice feel of debating when I wanted to shoot and when I should just pause. Maybe adding some kind of charge on them could mix it up even more.
    They remind me of those flying wrinkly things from Binding of Isaac, they have a very similar mechanic. 3: I got quite caught up in the game, considering my lack of 'interest' (It's not really lack of interest, more lack of experience) in shmups. As said, I never play these kinds of games, so take my feedback with a grain of salt. :D
     
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  8. MD_Reptile

    MD_Reptile

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    I don't have a playable version of my current project - but here's a slightly outdated demo video showcasing it:



    I'm inspired by cortex command, liero, worms, scorched earth, and other similar "blow everything away" kinds of games. I plan to release on mobile.

    Whatcha think?
     
  9. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    I am glad it was a fun experience for you. That is the important part! It is interesting that you are not really into shmups and yet you seemed to have found this experiment more enjoyable than others who have played many shmups.

    Thanks for trying it out and giving your feedback!
     
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  10. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    I just tried your game. You did not post any specific things you were looking for feedback on so this is just some general feedback:

    I really like the art style and the concept of the game.
    The movement was a bit tricky especially in the beginning because I was thinking I was supposed to stay within that square 3-shades-of-blue area. Was very challenging to say the least! After a couple plays I ventured out of that area and was happy to find that all was still working as before.

    The variety of ocean critters is excellent! You did an excellent job on these. It definitely feels like I am playing in the ocean.
    I like the simple control although it certainly makes it very challenging at the same time. The simple objectives combined with the one key control gives the game that "just one more time" feeling that all games strive for in one way or another but seldom achieve. Literally as soon as I died I wanted to give it another go because I knew it was all on me. I turned too late or too soon or I turned when I shouldn't have turned at all (meaning rapid tap tap to go as straight as possible).

    I do think the current state is basically like running a gauntlet and would recommend you start out with less enemies in the playfield and gradually increase the number over time. There were many times when I was literally surrounded by them with no real move options other than tapping a key quickly in an attempt to move straight and a swordfish came into view and speared me. LOL!

    Overall I think this is a great start. Just keep in mind you are much better at playing it than I (or anyone else) will be. It just happens when we develop games and playtest them hundreds (or thousands) of time in the process.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2015
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  11. Mothil

    Mothil

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    Thank you! It's really great to hear that had fun playing it. Regarding the two last paragraphs, I totally agree. I want to add some sort of max-spawn per point soon, whereas for example 0-5 points has a total mob-spawn of 5, and every three shrimp you collect increases mob-size by 1, or something along those lines. The last one just dawned on me, a friend just told me the same. So far the highest score someone has gotten (except me) is 6. Thank you for the feedback! It's greatly appreciated. :)
     
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  12. Batman_831

    Batman_831

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    I created a 2D game, and i am continuously working to improve it. 1-2 weeks ago i got some cool feedbacks for my game so I updated it and it's a lot more fun playing it. It still needs some cool features i can't figure out. So i need everyone's feedback and suggestions to improve the game.

    Here is the game thread. You can find videos and screen shots in thread.

    So basically, it's a simple game about mining different ores and earning money. As you earn money you unlock new ores and cool upgrades(initially you begin with 1 ore and 0 Upgrades), there's lava, there's spiders, there's explosives and other cool things to keep you excited. I recommend reading HOW TO PLAY.txt file bundled with the game, for a quick start on how to play the game.

    If you try the latest update of the game(and if you had played previous version of the game) you might have noticed a lot of things have changed. Once you try out the game, i curious to know -

    1. First of all, how was the game? Was it entertaining? Was it something worth playing? Will you give this game a second try? and, how would you rate it out of 100.

    2. According to you, what essential feature this game is missing?

    3. Suggestions and feedback are appreciated !
     
  13. Aiursrage2k

    Aiursrage2k

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    Okay I like the idea of creating destroying and you might be able to do something cool with that idea.

    Imagine something like this - you got 2 teams with tanks, they fire in an arc (as per usual). Your trying to bomb there "nuclear reactor(s)" that are burried under the mountain (think iran sorta). Now you can your trucks (or whatever to fill in the holes with your crystal stuff (which wont be as hard as the initial rock).


    I'm inspired by cortex command, liero, worms, scorched earth, and other similar "blow everything away" kinds of games. I plan to release on mobile.

    Whatcha think?[/QUOTE]
     
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  14. MD_Reptile

    MD_Reptile

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    You know, I've thought about implementing vehicles, and tanks would be just perfect haha. I suppose I'll have to try and code a 2d wheel collider system and see where it goes from there. And a "bomb the reactor" game mode might work for this. Thanks for the feedback!
     
  15. Gigiwoo

    Gigiwoo

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