FCC / CVAA discussion

This is it exactly. People get lost in the details but all the problems humans face are just the same simple ones over and over.

Waaaaay back when, when a person knew they couldn't keep up with the tribe anymore, they left and went to die. Because they didn't value themselves over others. This was the dignified thing to do.

Technology allows us to empower those who might not otherwise be able to contribute to the team. This is good. It makes all of us better. A person doesn't need to feel bad if they can't run with the hunters -- there is plenty of other useful things they can do. Everybody want's to be useful. They want to belong. That is essential to being a happy person. So the thing to do is find ways to further empower those who have any kind of disability, but not halting the entire tribe. Then we all starve.

 

No one is panicking here, that I can see... But I do see a group of highly knowledgeable tech experts voicing their concerns about some vague laws now in place purely on the whim of an agency that has shown to be despicable in the past.

FCC has become the enemy to innovation. They will continue to divide us here, and keep us so busy meeting their demands, other countries will have no trouble filling the void while we stand still.

[edit]
Maybe it would be better to start developing games for other countries than the US, and hope my ideas become popular there before ever deciding if I wish to allow USA to use my game.

Made in America, for everyone except Americans..

 

I highly doubt it is the people who actually are dealing with any kind of vision etc challenge that brought this on. Like most everything some person some politician some sjw someone else quite likely is using this as their platform. Because my cousin got injured bad when some idiot flying down a dirt road twice the speed limit ran into him. He will never be as mobile or without pain as he was before but ya know he has the same attitude as @hippocoder he doesn't want special treatment like this he doesn't want to people to shine a spotlight on him.

But someone out there is on a crusade. Hopefully it will at least do some good in the end and I sure hope it doesn't turn into a nightmare for some tiny team of Indies busting their asses making a game already living on a dream & a prayer.

Probably the best thing is for Indies to collectively reach out and contact places like IDGF and so forth and push back and demand some clarity as well ss exemption not only for this communications feature but to nip the movement in the bud. Because we all know things like this.. this is a starting point. It is this now. A precedent set. It grows from there. That is just regulations work. Some other group can start an initiative for the next step and so on.

 

Nobody is on a crusade. The people who do this crap are running a con. Maybe not the actual people writing the law, they are just useful idiots or more likely will pass anything if they get some scraps from the table.

It's psychopaths using peoples goodwill against them to set conditions in their own favor at the expense of others. This is what I am saying about moralizing and red flags. Do you really think any of those republican snakes give a hoot about abortion and planned parenthood? They don't care at all. But they know it's just the kind of thing that is so divisive that if they stand for it people will drop everything else and stand with them. It's just a trick.

This is the same thing. "Oh, we need to take care of the disabled." They don't give a hoot about the disabled. But they know you and I, the decent people who love our neighbors, do. And so thats what they peddle. But if you look at the facts, it's clear who really benefits.

 

Accessability and cellphones go hand in hand. Because it can literally save your life. This I understand.

But a game!! It's A GAME!!! It's entertainment. its not skype of facebook, its a set of artistic works put into motion in a way that reflect the creator's skill and vision. That's about it, and no game's communication system will ever save your life in an emergency (like a cell phone). So why is equally as important???

Also, if its about who can and cant enjoy the experience, then why are black diamond ski slopes not wheelchair friendly???

 

I have known people with autism that were unable to communicate with other people in real life placed in front of a game and suddenly they were able to communicate with people through the chat system. Clearly for them it can be much more than just entertainment.

 

Nitpicking. I call it a crusade. You call it a con. We can meet it the middle and call it both.

I am sure some of the people are truly trying to do what they believe is a good thing. But it really should be clarified who it applies to. Is it all games is it AAA games. Is it even completely free games. It is odd they seem to have left it intentionally vague. Because that means it is open to interpretation which usually is interpreted for the worse.

 

No, it is a distinct difference. That is why i pointed it out. Think about the meaning of the words.

 

I believe the word the two of you are looking for is "government".

 

I'm going by the general definition of a long and determined attempt to do something you believe in not a true holy war. I think it is in part a crusade by people believing in it or at least by people believing in "change" period. But a crusade could also be for a con if that is what you believe in. Doesn't have to be right or wrong just that you believe in it enough to stick with it to see it through to the end.

But anyway we are getting into the weeds. It might all blow over. lol

 

The government is the one tool the people have exercise their power collectively. The government is not evil. What happens is that people keep electing precisely the wrong type of people -- people susceptible to corruption, bribery, etc. -- and so you end up with corporations who's driving factor is greed getting influence over the peoples one tool for collective self-expression. It blows my mind that you can sit there and watch these politicians tell bold faced lies, I mean one week they say "x is y" and then a week later there they are on camera saying "y is z, I never said x is y" and people don't notice or choose not to believe it. Why? Because they think these obvious liars really care about abortion. They don't!

People have to get educated, stop being gullible, and learn to tell the difference between a misguided dummy and a liar. One you explain things to gently, and the other you slap upside the head, then explain things to gently.

Furthermore, people must start setting an example basic decency in their lives. The culture of "what's in it for me? I'm the only one that matters," will cause an implosion. A certain prominent figure in the public space is all the example you need for what not to do. He literally says, out loud, "I'm the only one that matters," and people think this is admirable? Is not being able to keep a single friend for more than a few weeks admirable? Is turning everybody against you admirable? Is living in a constant state of drama and panic by your own doing how anybody wants to live? It's madness.

A lot of people are saying that America no longer has a representative democracy, but from where I sit it looks like the perfect representative democracy. You have a government of people who are only in it for themselves, are completely disconnected from their neighbors, are greedy beyond all sin, and are scared of their own shadow. Sounds like a lot of people I know!

 

If you take a moment and think about it it's not that odd that a law is left vague. Like @Kiwasi mentioned on the first page if the law were not vague it wouldn't be able to keep up with the speed that the Internet changes. Besides I'm not positive you could make it anything other than vague with the way that game development is still a very young industry.

 

A vague Government might be your fancy. But vague laws are no different than lawlessness. IMO

 

Ok. Tell me. How would you handle a law that has to change on a frequent basis with a government that takes years to make adjustments to a law?

 

It's a law made up to solve a crime nobody actually wants to commit. That's the senselessness and stupidity of it. Nobody wants to omit people with disabilities, ever. But not everyone has the resources.

The simple reason nobody wants to omit people with disabilities is because people with disabilities are also paying customers.

The fact is some people have to omit it due to budget or resource concerns. And now these people, who omit it because they don't have resources... STILL omit it because they don't have resources, and maybe even omit chat for everyone else too if they can't fight the FCC on it. Worse, the FCC even has a provision for this, which makes it even more useless because the data never changes: people can't before... and can't after. All that changes is more power for FCC.

It's pure and simple a very, very bad law that changes nothing and only exists to give power to those who want it.

Games like world of warcraft contain a large amount of accessibility options and indies, where we can, have always supported modes for subtitles, or colour blind support wherever we could, everyone did - it's good business and goodwill.

Nobody needs a law to tell you to breathe, then punish you while you're breathing.

 

allow the people to vote for amendments..

 

This isn't just about indie developers though. How many AAA developers implement accessibility?

 

Good point.
I can only deduct, that implementation cost, exceed potential gain, as I mentioned much earlier.
Or it is not that really of an issue, as some may paint it.
Real statistical data would be required, to get correct true.

 

I just think should clarify specifically does this apply to any and all games period. Let's say you made a super tiny 2 player asteroids clone game multiplayer with a simple text box to type messages into & you release it for free. If that is completely legal then it needs to be explicitly defined as being completely legal. And so forth. Right now my impression is this is all encompassing even for hobby projects. Perhaps simply because the people making the law have no clue the huge number of people making games even tiny multiplayer 2-player games completely for fun originally for them and a friend or two and then released for free.

 

@GarBenjamin See post #29

 

Just received a response from my congressman's office, they are asking to call me next week

here's part of their response:
"""
We should talk further if you would like. Either way, happy to brief the issue to the Congressman and see if we can advocate to delay the FCC enforcement (which I think has happened since the law was enacted in 2010, I believe). FYI you are the first person that has ever written us about CVAA, so I appreciate the feedback.
"""

 

That is interesting outcome. Even so more, in first week of new year

 

Yes and that is great & all but when it comes to the law... that just means you can propose that as your defense. It is not a given. It means that can be your argument. Depending on the lawyers and judge and jury etc it could be seen as "well you knew about this law... because even if you didn't ignorance is no excuse (they introduced that long ago... it is everyone's responsibility to keep up on all the laws)... so clearly you should never have released it."

This is why it needs to be defined in black & white what you can and cannot do. In my opinion anyway.

 

Great work.

 

Scrap it until a sensible one can be made, if at all.

Laws by nature have a cancerous growth function. They do not wait for the conditions to stabilize before taking another step. They simply expand until something pushes back. Vague boundaries are simply an opportunity.

If you want to make a good law, you carefully define the problem, create watertight boundaries, and watch it very carefully as you implement it.

Once a law is passed, very few things besides the breakdown of civilization will ever remove it from its place.

 

You don't make laws to tell people what to do, you only make them to tell what not to do. There is a difference. One way is a way of skill, the other lacks it. One way is a way of respect, the other of arrogance.

If citizens are not being as kind and empathetic as they really ought to be, you improve education. You bolster up people who set a good example. You be a leader. Not a dictator.

 

I like your thinking. Only wish would be more practical in real life.
For example, "You should NOT pay a tax"

 

This thread has taught me that:

1. A lot of you can't read
2. A lot of you really seem to have issue with providing baseline communication accessibility
3. A lot of you are out of your goddamn minds

 

Wrong. A lot of us have issues with being forced to doing it and punished by not doing so. Adding features like this should be rewarded for doing so.

I'm going to report every single game in existence released after the 31st if it doesn't support at least 6,500 languages in close caption/localization for excluding people of different languages. People wanna think this is a good law, then I'm going to make sure everyone gets penalized for excluding 20 people who speak a unique language that only they know and can only speak, I mean after all, you just excluded people which is - wrong. So you should be punished.

Won't cost me anything to report everyone, just let the FCC handle you and just keep going out of my way to find these games just to watch their companies crumble before ever lifting off = less competition for me. Hey this is actually brilliant for knocking competition out of the arena actually. Now I see why this law would be amazing to have now. Just pick off my competitors for an innocent thing they didn't know about.

 

Good luck with effort. You are better start writing a template. Let us know if you succeed, or will be feed into spam

Other than that, this is what I exactly mentioned.

I suggest you make all preventive measure, so no one reports your game. I am going use google translator in game, so one potential issue for me less

 

@Antypodish : Well I was more speaking from frustration lol. Because that's the exact scenario that will play out with some people, just like patent trolls, they'll do it because they can..... But keep in mind google translate isn't always accurate though, this is why it costs tons of money to get the proper translations done.

 

True, but is better than none, with tons of translations. And with additional plugin, you can make game auto translate, to relevant language. However, as you said, will require manual corrections.
+ it has text to speech as well. So two birds in one hand.

 

What are you talking about though? I don't see any requirement for localisations.

 

I agree, your time is useless.

 

Yes that is us

Including lack of lower parts as well ...

 

Ok sure but what subset of those 5% and 4.5% play?

Yes. I just want blind people (who will definitely play my games btw 100%) to stop pointing state gun at me and learn to f***ing read.
Can't hear? That's ok I play most games on mute. It's not that big a problem.

 

Nah, you should make game, so it forces keyboard and mouse to vibrate
But on serious side, I think force feedback is good alternative. Console controller have it. So game could even play a rhythm of music, via vibration. It is interesting technical challenge. But I wouldn't be neccessery advising to go that route, for average dev Joe.

 

No, the requirement includes people with no colour vision at all. But ensuring a chat system is colourblind friendly is easy anyway.

 

Disabling hearing loss is only a small portion of the people who benefit from hearing loss related accommodations. 60.5% of Assassin's Creed Origins players played with subtitles turned on. Being able to communicate by text is great when the only time you get to play is when your baby is asleep.

 

It doesn't apply to all game development, it applies to communication functionality. That's what the C in CVAA stands for.

Specifically it applies to text chat, voice chat and video chat.

More specifically, electronic messaging services, voice over IP services, and video conferencing services. It also covers communication between VoIP services and telepone services, but that isn't present in any games (that I'm aware of at least).

 

This legislation was enacted in 2010, not 2018, and across all industries.

Here's a video of some deaf gamers discussing how it's an issue:

It is not a troll stick, trolls cannot bring complaints and cases. They can request mediation, opening a three way dialogue between them, the company and the developer. After the mediation process - during which any trolling intent would presmably have been weeded out and them told to go away - they are then allowed to escalate it to a complaint. Which they have to pay a fee in order to do.

So there are degrees of buffers and safeguards in place.

 

No need to rely on conjecture, the law was enacted in 2010 and most industries had to comply by 2012. Consumers can't directly file complaints, first they have to make a request for dispute assistance, which involves the FCC putting them in in touch with the company to get the issue resolved, and then if needed, a window of time to fix the issue. Only after that window of time has passed without the issue being dropped or fixed or the window being extended is the consumer allowed to file a complaint. Filing a complaint costs them money.

From 2012 to 2018 there were in the region of 70 issues raised by consumers. Every one of them was resolved (dropped or fixed) during the mediation process. None went to complaint.

 

Yep, though there are some tips here that you might find useful -

https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/IanHamilton/20161031/284491/VR__accessibility.php

CVAA does not require your game to be accessible, it requires any communication functionality that you have to be accessible as reasonably possible.

 

Cellphones save lives, and thus need to be accessible. Game communication is non-critical. But fines just the same..

Easiest alternative now is to just scrap all multiplayer functionality in upcoming games until more reasonable laws are proposed.

I already decided to gray out all of my multiplayer menus and replace them with "COMING SOON", if ever...

PPl have said that the disabled just wanna have fun, but so do developers!! Threaten a developer to step outside of their comfort (skill) zone and said developer will most likely quit..

[edit]
Everyone keeps saying, it's only communication, which is complete horse sh**!! I am not in any way capable of writing a TTS engine, I also am not a GFX artist so I have trouble creating high contrast fancy text pictures.

This is insane and I'll say it again, they are asking for the wheelchair ramps to be completely functional before the building has even been constructed - And I don't even know exactly what I'm making yet..

All I want is to test my game in target markets, but I refuse to waste time on something that I can't even begin to imagine how to incorporate (with guidelines or not, there are no pre-written drop-in examples, so how do I know what I make is even sufficient????).

Multiplayer games are in real jeopardy (unless you have millions of dollars).

 

So you can't play the game but the VOIP needs to be accessible? That's very reasonable

 

Then they're not a very good developer, are they?

 

Or they have a life, maybe a family too. So guess not then.

 

lmao, implementing a TTS library isn't even that hard, and neither is high contrast text that doesn't rely on colour coding

 

This should be solved at the OS level... (overlays etc)...

That's one of my problems.

The reality is deaf and hard of hearing problems are commercial problems. Almost everything supports subs as it is good business. Even those that don't have machine translations. It's not just "disabled deaf people", it's because everyone gets old. Everyone loses their hearing over time, or maybe the spoken language isn't as familiar as the written for some people.

So what are the options for console games with audio chat? Have a text mode that everyone can potentially talk to me using a painful dpad input scheme? Nobody is ever going to use it. But by law, they'd have to add it.

As opposed to the conversation being about an incentive and reward, about winning awards for accessibility. About innovating instead of bare minimum. Make it a law and nobody wants to improve on that because there's no need.

 

Amazing how quickly you gave up after saying you weren't the type to give up...

Plus it's not like we don't have solutions for these available on the Asset Store.

https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/audio/rt-voice-pro-41068
https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/vfx/shaders/background-based-text-color-swap-80523