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Fake offers in Collaboration!?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ppan, May 12, 2012.

  1. ppan

    ppan

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    Not sure where to place that. Maybe it belongs to the collaboration section.

    Since I placed my programming offer to the collaboration section I get a lot of pm's. I am not sure, but I think not all of them a serious.

    Many of them have there own thread in the collaboration section, is this a good sign or can it be a fake?

    How can I find out who is serous? Few have a professional webpage other don't.
    Is the webpage a good indicator?

    Thanks for reading and helping
     
  2. OmniverseProduct

    OmniverseProduct

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    I don't think any of that is a good indicator on whether they are serious. If I were you I would ask questions like how is the team organized and ran? What qualifications do each of the members have? What does the team expect out of you? There are so many other questions but that's all I could think of right now. If they get huffy or defensive on any that is a good indication to me that it isn't a serious project.
     
  3. fleshtheworld

    fleshtheworld

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    Im sure most of them are real, but maybe 99% dont know what they are doing / are incapable of leading a team. Its hard work. Most of them probably dont have experience making games. It is what it is.

    So do you want to join me? Lets make a demo ftw! This is a half serious question.
     
  4. I am da bawss

    I am da bawss

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    You can't really. Even seriously invested project can fall through most of the time (like 90%).

    The only way you can weed out those totally obvious one is probably just judging by the way they frame their scope vs their capabilities. Is it too ambitious? Is it under staffed ? Are they teenagers? Is it MMO? :D

    Some obvious pointers - are there typos in their recruitment threads? Its pretty obvious if they can't even get their spellings and grammars right they aren't educated enough to make games! (or have the maturity for it! :D)
     
  5. ppan

    ppan

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    What does that mean? Why half serious?
    I think something is not ok in this community :(
     
  6. I am da bawss

    I am da bawss

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    There is nothing wrong with this community. Its just Unity community is grown so large now its by far the largest community out there compare to others (UDK, CryEngine, Leadwerks, Shiva, 3D Game Studio, Torque, C4....etc etc). So of course you going to get a lot of these. Like all things in real life, 90% rule RULES! 90% of business fails within 1 year, then out of that 10% the 90% fails within 10 years... its the same with all game projects.
     
  7. fleshtheworld

    fleshtheworld

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    You just have to look at the offer that you like best and give it a try. No one can ever be sure. Even if they are serious, and have the experience to make a game, that doesn't guarantee they will be successful.

    If your concern that maybe they are spam or bots, then no, im sure there are no bots spamming that they need help :)

    But I do actually want some help with coding for my game, but my game is on hold anyways so no need. Thats why it was a half serious question.
     
  8. JohnnyA

    JohnnyA

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    This is my "I'm bored this afternoon" reply :

    $ShouldICollaborate.png
     
  9. Meltdown

    Meltdown

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    If you're going to do programming for them I'd look first at the quality of their GDD. Is it comprehensive and well written?
    Do they have concept art, good open communications channels, and a dedicated team, and a clear vision?
    How long has the team been together? How much progress have they made?

    I'd also have a Skype interview with the members, a conference call, and ask some questions. Ask difficult questions, and ask lots of questions.

    If you've received lots of requests you are in the position to decide who you want to work with. I'd suggest working with the most professional looking/sounding team, who knows what they want out the project, and they know where it's going. Also follow your gut instinct. If something sounds fishy or you don't get a good feeling about a project or the group.. you're probably right.

    Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
     
  10. Willster

    Willster

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    Hi ppan, this is just my personal opinion, but I don't think you should necessarily look at someone's seriousness, as there are a lot of people who are deadly serious that they will create the next World of Warcraft and really believe it. Perhaps you should look instead at someone's competence or ability?

    As Meltdown says, looking at what someone has already created will give you an idea of how capable they are and this can be a good indicator of the sort of results they will produce along the way. If they haven't produced anything, then why not? If they don't know how the mechanics of the game work, then they won't be able to tell you either and you'll be sat doing nothing whilst waiting for them to come up with those details.

    If someone is looking for a programmer, then they will need to be able to communicate with you effectively to provide you with the information you need to write your code. This is especially important in an online collaboration, where you may be in different time zones. If, for example, they ask you for a character controller, can they give precise instructions about how the character can move, whether they can double jump, can they move in mid air etcetera, or do they just say that he does 'cool stuff like in <INSERT GAME YOU'VE NEVER PLAYED BEFORE>'. The less clear their instructions, the harder it will be for you to complete your work without having to ask them something.
     
  11. Torsh

    Torsh

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    Listen to this.
     
  12. GiusCo

    GiusCo

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    Generally speaking, I prefer contracting with well established quantities (website, portfolio, contact page, reputation --> written contract stating well defined deliverables + timelog + payment milestones + opt-out clauses) and never got in trouble that way. It also keeps your level high.
     
  13. Meltdown

    Meltdown

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    While that may apply to commercial work, its a lot tougher to apply that formula to collaboration where work is done for free.
     
  14. Swearsoft

    Swearsoft

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    Exactly
     
  15. ppan

    ppan

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    Torsh, no offense, but you are on of these guys who opens up a new big business plan in collab section every week, which all would lead to AVOID.

    I am still confused about few things here, hope I get it soon.
     
  16. Chris Aoki

    Chris Aoki

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    If they haven't even bothered to make some sort of simple prototype with the basic assets in Unity, OR don't have any original artwork, models or concept art to show in their thread, stay away. These projects are most likely going no where, and they are just wasting your time and theirs, a lot of people who post in the collab section are in serious need of a reality check.
     
  17. hippocoder

    hippocoder

    Digital Ape Moderator

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    Hi,

    I run a successful business developing apps, and have done quite well for myself. I wouldn't actually use anyone from the collab section of this site because it's infested with kids trying to poach developers and either rip them off, or promise them payment that will never arrive. They treat if like trying to poach a mage or something from a rival guild on wow.

    Some tips:

    1. agree to quarterly milestone payments. If you aren't paid then for the work, you can stop the project without losing much time. If they won't agree to milestone payments then why bother?

    2. if it smells bad, it is bad. It smells bad for a reason. It's not because of fairies or quantum dimensions, or cat poo. Trust your instincts.

    3. the unity forums are available to anyone on the internet who signs up. Don't assume it's a valid unity user. Word of mouth can go a long way.
     
  18. kingcharizard

    kingcharizard

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    I hate Skype, Everyone wants to Bleeping skype... ugh

    Thats not true... I have a thread in the collab section offering my services free of charge with the intentions to improve my skills. I ask for no money, just challenges...
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2012
  19. Rico21745

    Rico21745

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    As someone looking for artists for a project in the collaboration section, I can honestly say that I truly hate that section of the forums. Real project threads like mine often get buried in a sea of troll threads, MMO threads, or "Game Studios" and "Companies" that are not real companies, but a twelve year old, claiming to be the CEO idea man, who will "allow you to keep 60% of profits for your game".

    There has to be a better place to recruit talent for Unity. It is looking more and more clear to me that I will not find anyone of worth through the Collaboration section.
     
  20. kingcharizard

    kingcharizard

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    The paid work section
     
  21. Rico21745

    Rico21745

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    I'm a hobbyist, not trying to make "the next Minecraft". I do this in my spare time, for fun, and to challenge myself as a programmer with things I don't get to mess with in the business world as a developer. Any money I put up for a project is to support it (licenses, tools we need for work, etc). There are so many other places I'd rather go to for paid work, because even the Paid Work forums here are filled with scams, people reselling other's models, etc.

    I have had great luck before with other engines and finding similarly-minded team members who are also hobbyists or looking to grow their portfolio, but like I said, the Unity forums aren't really striking me as a super friendly supportive community. I suppose "free" always tends to attract its share of immaturity, but like I said, I've had better luck recruiting in other forums, and will likely go back and do so in the future.
     
  22. kingcharizard

    kingcharizard

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    Then by all means do what works. Yes lately this place has been flooded with many "new" members joining. Most of them are young. But there are many great developers here. You have to weed out the great ones from the children who think because unity is FREE and "Easy" to use that they can make the next MMO or something along them lines... Most realize that there is more to making a game then they realize and leave eventually...
     
  23. VeraxOdium

    VeraxOdium

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    Just talk to people, get them on messenger, e-mail, etc. and feel them out over a period of time. It doesn't take long to get a decent idea of what kind of person you're dealing with, if there are other team members talk to them too. Look at their post history, try to read everything or at least the most recent stuff if they have too many posts to go though.

    If I remember right you posted in the collab section wanting to help out that "NextGenStudios" guy even after reading through pages that very obviously exposed him for being detached from reality and having absolutely zero skills whatsoever applicable to game dev... you still wanted to work with him. So that leads me to believe you're extremely naive, maybe you need to be a little more thoughtful about judging people.

    Even if you do everything right you can still get ripped off one way or another, that's the risk you take in working with unproven strangers, just be smart and use logic and you'll have better odds of success.

    If you want to work with "proven" developers then you yourself need some proof of your abilities and demonstrate you're probably a good investment.
     
  24. ppan

    ppan

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    Why you calling my naive? Do I call you stupid?
     
  25. Haledire

    Haledire

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    In regards to the NextGen3D thing - you did simply go at the guy's word that his company was legit and disregarded the fact that his company wasn't registered yet a website already existed (which he himself didn't link to) and it was mentioned on the first page of the thread. Being defensive on this subject is not helping you.

    One thing people need to learn in the collaboration section is how to let threads die rather than keep diving completely off topic simply to wait for a mod to come in (like here where we're going into personal attacks rather than discussing the integrity of the Collaboration Section).

    That said, you came here asking about how to figure out who is serious and who is not. If you don't do the proper research into the people you are trying to work with, you're obviously not going to figure that out until you get into a bad position if you simply take them at their first post and nothing more.

    You see several people posting under "Company Names" in the Collaboration Section. I'll bet you'll be hard pressed to find people who actually own the website for these company names even if they 'do' happen to exist. It's become common to a point where a couple people have been changing their Unity Forum name because their project fell through or their team didn't like the 'company name'.

    Research the people, research the type of project, and look at the information presented. Once things start seeming unrealistic, it should be obvious enough to not bother putting your name into the hat. Experienced professionals for free? (it was a "professional level" profit share project after all) Unlimited Positions? More Artists the better? There's an old saying: "Too many cooks spoil the soup."
     
  26. VeraxOdium

    VeraxOdium

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    You wanted to join a project creating a MMORPG lead by a guy who has no experience, training, skills, knowledge whatsoever about game development who said he would take 40% of the profits for being nothing but the idea man that sat back and told everyone what to do. The OP was obviously amateurish, possibly even written by a minor, full of red flags, when asked questions he became hostile.

    I'm not trying to be rude but this is insanity.

    Edit: Didn't notice the link inside "stupid", you're awesome :)
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2012
  27. Ostwind

    Ostwind

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    Well that's lame and immature. Makes us others now think that VeraxOdiums believes might not have been too far from the truth...
     
  28. dogzerx2

    dogzerx2

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    If you're looking for fun, that's great! I remember joining plenty of game projects that lead nowhere when I was a kid! Tons of fun, some hilarious experiences I'll never forget.

    But if you want to work for money, a "please work for me for free" game making offer doesn't have to be fake to make you waste your time! It can genuinely make you work for a game that'll never get finished!
    Think about that!