Excited about the new Apple TV?

Most people will pay $500 for a 4K TV when they need a new TV. 4K isn't something that is necessary for the customers, it is something that producers need to improve sales.

Customers for Apple TV are mostly those who don't already own something like that. 4K would have been too expensive, the A9X would have been the minimum processor then. And it would suck marketing-wise to tell people that the super dupa highend A9X is in their $150 box.
I guess 4K will come in one or two years at this time much more pople will have a 4K TV. And the plan is that many of those who got hooked to the new Apple TV will buy the next generation again because of the better games and 4K support.

 

It is definitely less of a problem now than it would have been in the past. Upgrading to 4K from 1080p is likely to seem like far less of an improvement than upgrading from standard definition to 1080p. Apple will simply have to hope that prices don't plunge for 4K TVs.

I'll definitely give you that previous owners of the Apple TV were not likely to be purchasing the latest tech. But then the previous generation of Apple TV was less than half the cost of the newest's base price. At least they made a fairly substantial increase to specs compared to previous generations (Apple A8 from A5 and quadruple the memory).

 

If it uses the A8 or the (single core variant of the) A5 is not important unless you want Apps and Games. If you want an Apple TV for the things that the old Apple TV offered, iTunes, Netflix and a few of the other channels, then the old one (which is still available) is the right choice.

 

Do PS4 and xbox do 4k? probably not? ... mid-level game console probably not likely to aim for that either. They'll come out with an 'Apple TV pro' or something in a few years.

 

Yes, both are capable of outputting 4K for video. The Xbox One is capable of using it for games too.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/2/21/4013432/playstation-4-4k-output-games
http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthic...an-do-4k-gaming-more-original-content-coming/

 

A TV at 4K will make oodles of libraries of 480i original source material look atrocious I think, please correct me if I'm wrong. e.g. I Love Lucy looks pretty good as HD at 4 times the size considering the original source in the 50s wasn't great, but at 4K that's 8 times the original size?

Can old 480i source scale to 8 times & it look good? I might consider a 4K TV myself if they ever became priced at HD TV prices.

 

The one I mentioned earlier was a Vizio or basically the cheapest available TV with a reputable brand. It wasn't a small one either. I'd be shocked if we didn't see reasonably affordable ones from other brands in a year or two.

http://www.amazon.com/VIZIO-M43-C1-43-Inch-Ultra-Smart/dp/B00T63YUTE/

 

Even if they become HD priced, I'll have to test with my I Love Lucy DVDs and if it doesn't scale good I won't buy. I really don't like those basic cable channels that have still 480i no upscaled because the picture is just a small square in the middle of a big blank TV screen.

 

Both very old articles. Hardware might have support for 4K but neither support it in games or videos at the moment. PS4 has only 4K image viewer that was added later.

 

Yeah, being able to output in 4K and being able to play games at 4K are quite different. Also keep in mind that it was relatively common last gen to render at a lower resolution and upscale to 720p or 1080p.

 

Got the links from Wikipedia's references section on the articles for both consoles. It figures they're outdated.

 

I think also with the relatively recent upgrade from analog tv to digital tv across the USA, in which many people had to buy new tv's and most of them were probably HD, many are not going to be interested in buying a new 4k tv any time soon.

 

Would be cool to have a UnityTV channel on AppleTV? :-D

 

If I recall correctly most people weren't affected due to being on cable or satellite. Those who were could simply purchase a box with the coupon handed out. My memory is a bit rusty on this though as I just tuned out the entire process.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupon-eligible_converter_box

 

When I saw the image of apple tv controller(its not a controller, its a remote ), my excitement vaporized away.

 

You can use a bluetooth controller, your game just has to 'work with' the remote thingy.

Not ideal, but any one using the thing for games is probably going to get a third-party controller.

 

Does it count if only the menu works with it?

 

Sure, I expect an official controller for a dedicated gaming machine called "console".

 

But they're not calling it a "console", are they?

It worked well enough for the Wii, didn't it? Apple didn't get where they are by just doing what everyone else is already doing. Forcing people to do stuff their way generally works out quite well for them.

 

Based on the quality of reviewers nowadays I'd say yes :/

 

Nope. At least not on their site. Haven't actually watched the presentation video(s).

The layout of the buttons strikes me as odd. I feel like if I were trying to use more than my thumb to access the touch surface that I would inevitably end up pressing them.

 

The remote layout for gaming strikes me as very odd too. If it was designed even with gaming as a secondary objective I think it would have been different. The buttons would have been on the opposite side form the "dpad" but currently you get two accessible buttons one being the touch click (which is being shared with the dpad) and the other is pretty close (since all the buttons are close to the touch portion. This is not balanced at all and even the demo videos it looks awkward. It's clear the remote was not designed with gaming in mind.

 

Since you said this, I wonder if I interpreted apple's instructions incorrectly... maybe if you ABSOLUTELY require a controller, apple frowns upon and discourages this.... but if you can use the remote OR a controller, that's ok.? But then, to have a game which needs like twin sticks or multiple buttons just isn't going to translate to the remote very well.

 

I suppose in terms of touching/swiping and being like an iphone, the remote does allow you to touch/tap, swipe, click, which supports a fairly large number of games. But without that tying in directly with touching visual elements on the screen, or multi-touch, it does narrow things down quite a bit.

 

There are apps that are specific to hardware, such as Parrot AR.Drone. I'd expect if you write a game specifically for use with controllers, regardless of platform, that should be fine. Could be wrong of course, this is Apple after all.

 

It would have been nice if they had thrown an extra button or two on the "remote" near the tail end. (on the side opposite the touch pad) It would have been a fairly easy concession to game developers. Watching one of the demo videos where the user turned the remote sideways and had to stretch across the remote to reach the buttons just struck me as awkward.

 

Yeah it would have been nice but I don't think Apple is thinking this as gaming device too much based on the controller and other decisions. Seems to be only small category to them and services being the key concept. They have always hated extra buttons and stuff anyways or at least Jobs did.

Still not sure how big hit it will be for more serious gamers when there are already tens of micro consoles out there and real consoles can be bought for twice the price, including game controllers and have support for very AAA games and multiplayer. On top of that they include all the streaming services too and Xbox One possibly having universal apps support in a month or two.

For casual and semi gamers I can see the click click, Wii style or some other type games possibly work some way but even for them the controller is really lacking if you compare it to wiimote buttons and features. Extra game controllers are most likely out of the question since they are not provided by Apple and require extra investment on to something you haven't tried or not too interested on. Also people usually like to play games more with tablets or with mouse after initial appeal intead of waving some device or using touch pad in front of large TV (Wii, Kinect graveyards).

 

Apple does tout 'apps', in general, as the next step.. not just games... games are only a part of it. Many apps can be implemented and controlled via the remote with few problems. To them maybe that's the vast majority of apps that will come out - like 70% apps, 30% games.

 

@imaginaryhuman the word is that it MUST be fully playable with just the included remote. For the first wave of games I expect they will be pretty stringent on this, although over time this constraint may be relaxed (even if not officially).

PS Who else got their dev kit for $1.00?

 

So are you still going to argue with me about looking a gift horse in the mouth?

 

I don't think they want to make concessions to game developers or make any special effort to support current games. To the contrary, I expect that they want to do the opposite - encourage people to make new games for their device, designed around their new controller.

Apple gets nothing out of making their device play the same games every other competing device can already play. They get a lot out of using their clout to encourage people to make new games that then either don't quite fit with those other devices, or are a clearly superior experience on their own device.

 

Anyone know if the Apple TV remote swipe gesture will be recognize as Arrow Key event or something ? I was wondering if it would be possible to navigate through UI elements according to the navigation using swipe on the remote.

 

@angrypenguin Yep looks like you're right, for now at least.

@bali33 If they do it would be part of UIKit, which isn't exposed in Unity (thus far) so you'd have to write your own input/navigation anyway.

 

my apple tv is on the road to my mailbox, I was wondering if it would be possible using the touch zone of the remote to use it like a 2 axis joystick ? or it is only working with swipes?

 

Nobody knows outside of us with devkits, and we aren't going to talk about it here. If you are getting a devkit, then you need to contact @Mantas Puida

 

already did this thank you, just there is an unity pro licence requirement, which i dont have available right now.

 

? You wont need unity pro for apple tv support, from what I gathered in the blog post

 

You do to be a part of the beta with the devkit is what he's saying.

 

Yes. It can work like a d-pad.

 

How does that work exactly? The whole surface is one button (right?), so if you make a click, you would have to have your fingers touching only one spot on the surface, for one direction, which isn't typically how people use a d-pad, ie rolling your finger around towards the extremes of a circle and having tactile feedback from button shapes. To get a click involved would be awkward. Are you saying people would basically move their thumb to a different area of the pad in order to signal a movement in that direction? like a 360 angle from the center?

 

It'd have to work like a touch(screen) d-pad, and you're right, a lack of tactile feedback might make it less than ideal for some things. It really depends on the use case, though, it might be perfectly fine.

 

It does have feedback, or more accurately, it is mechanical. so you as use your thumb to move around like a d-pad, you press a little harder for the click. For example on a platformer, if you swipe and hold left, it could move left, and pressing down could make it run left. The overall shape of the controller works surprisingly well considering the lack of + rocker button. It has good precision.

From a development standpoint, wrapping your head around the way the events are handled it is a little non-intuitive at first, but when actually playing, it very quickly becomes natural.

 

That would be kind of up to the developer, in terms of how you handle the input. It is definitely different than a virtual pad on a phone/tablet. On a screen, things are a little more nebulous. Since you aren't doing anything else with the touch surface, and it is square, you quickly acquire the spatial memory of it. Holding it naturally, your relaxed thumb is in the center. It isn't going to a easy or simple port for existing games, (especially for UI), but some types of games it will be a natural fit, and it is kinda fun building games around that interaction.

 

If you have an AppleTV Dev kit and want to take part in beta testing other developers' apps there is a new Facebook group for that: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1501151186844862/?ref=bookmarks

 

Thanks for the link I have requested to join the group. Do you also beta test tools or just games? In addition to the assets in my signature below that already work with the new Apple TV, I'm creating a new one to take advantage of all the new input possibilities with the new remote at a higher level than the Unity API.

 

@greggtwep16 Cool. I didn't start that FB group. I just found it on Apple Dev forums for AppleTV/tvOS and joined myself. And I guess people there'd be glad to test both tools and apps. I know I'd sure like to test (and buy) that asset that "take advantage of all the new input possibilities with the new remote at a higher level than the Unity API."

 

Thanks it's always good to have beta testers. When I get past the design/alpha stage (probably around 2 weeks) which will be right around the product launch I'll certainly post on the group for beta testers. It might launch with a subset of eventual features to get it out the door quicker but full list of the plan is as follows.

Accelerometer/Gyro High level Controls
-tilt detection for position/rotation changes (think racing games, marble games)
-Generic rough position tracking in a couple second spurts (think bowling or other wii type games) I mention rough because current testing indicates the gyro in it isn't the greatest and unlike wii there are no other sensors assisting like the light bar.

Touch High level gestures (to assist with the lack of buttons on remote but remember there is no multitouch):
-tap
-long press
-swipe
-pan

mFi controller automatic generation
-automatically created if you are using the Unity Input API currently on other platforms, so no code would need to change from a mouse/keyboard game. This is available already in Auto Gamepad Generator for all platforms but I figure I would throw a lite version (Apple TV only) into the product if it helps anyone port their games over for controllers and that way they wouldn't have to buy multiple products if they were only interested in relation to Apple TV.

Obviously, this is a really aggressive timeline but I'll certainly do my best to have it ready by launch and I'll reach out to you when it's ready for beta. I'm also certainly up for suggestions if there is something I've missed. I'm basically trying to make an all in one Apple TV input helper product for the unique nature of the platform.

So far I like the platform it seems nice. I was hoping it was going to be a local multiplayer powerhouse but Apple probably killed that with only allowing 3 players (the remote and 2 mFi controllers). Obviously, you can get around that with my asset Easy WiFi Controller using your phone as a controller, but it would have been nice to not have to.

 

I'm wondering as to the feasibility of a control where you need to like scroll a cursor over the play area (2d) to select things.. then you need to somehow select them (although this could be a matter of auto-select based on how long the cursor hovers on an object or how close it is to the object?), and then having a mechanism of doing something to trigger a 'drawing' mode... I guess a click or something... because like holding down a button while you scroll around (like a mouse) just doesn't seem like it would work well... trying to apply constant pressure while you need to keep picking up your thumb to scroll more etc... I guess a click could trigger a 'start' signal and then they can just scroll to wherever, then click again to finish?

 

I would think your start/end would be the best of bad options, at least that I can think of right now. After using the remote for a bit I agree you don't want to paint with the pad's button clicked. The only other possibility that I can think of is holding one of the other buttons when you want to draw. I can't say this feels good due to the shape of the remote and there are already so few buttons to choose from I'm not sure you want to use one dedicate to "is drawing now" like the mouse click does on a PC.

I'm sure you wanted a design that works on the remote so I'm not sure you have a lot of options though. Using a phone as a touchpad controller would allow you to paint but I can't think of a good design for this using just the remote.

 

Are we all sure now that all Apple TV games MUST work (in their entirety) with the apple remote? It just makes it seem so ridiculous to even advertise support for controllers. You look at a controller, 2 thumb sticks, 4 directional buttons, 4 other buttons, multiple buttons on the front... you would have to use almost none of those inputs in your game otherwise you'd lose functionality. So then you have a controller with, say... maybe the use of one stick and one button? And all the rest of it is useless?

And what about a game like guitar hero which they advertise? How can you possibly orchestrate multiple simultaneous touches or rapid inputs corresponding to different oncoming notes, using just the tv controller?

Apple's advertising also says, I quote "For serious gamers, the new Apple TV supports MFi-based controllers that let you run, jump, shoot, kick, throw, punch, or just about any other verb you can imagine.*" .... so the controller is able to support all these multiple functionalities, and yet the full game HAS to work without a controller as well? How can that possibly ever happen?

Apple also cryptically says "*Not all games support the use of controllers." - which means controller is optional, but says nothing as to whether the default remote is optional.

http://www.macrumors.com/2015/09/15/apple-tv-games-support-apple-tv-remote/

I guess we have to live with this...
http://www.idownloadblog.com/2015/0...rt-the-apple-tv-remote-is-the-right-decision/