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ETA on supporting Point Light shadows for LWRP?

Discussion in 'Graphics Experimental Previews' started by Creepgin, Sep 25, 2018.

  1. Creepgin

    Creepgin

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    Last edited: Sep 25, 2018
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  2. Andre_Mcgrail

    Andre_Mcgrail

    Unity Technologies

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    So far looking like we will have time to get it done before the end of the year early next year, the last month we have been working on stabilising the public API so we can go forwards without breaking peoples projects(we will be breaking projects soon). Once this update is out, which should be this week we will start looking at the high level bugs and then move onto fixing up some of the base features such as additional shadow casting for spots(and the atlasing) then once 19.1 Beta comes out we will look into point light shadows.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
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  3. Creepgin

    Creepgin

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    Awesome. Thanks for the detailed roadmap! I think Point Light shadows is the only hard requirement for my future project that will use LWRP. Glad to know it will be worked on.
     
  4. rz_0lento

    rz_0lento

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  5. Laumania

    Laumania

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    ...so it's July 2019 - and if I'm not mistaken this still isn't supported - any plans on supporting it?

    :)
     
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  6. QuigsBigSpecGames

    QuigsBigSpecGames

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    Hi there,
    I would also like an update to this one please?
     
    depart likes this.
  7. MJQStudioWorks

    MJQStudioWorks

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    I'm still waiting for this, pointlight with shadow.
     
    Alvarezmd90, segant and depart like this.
  8. Alvarezmd90

    Alvarezmd90

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    Yeah point light shadowing is very crucial, even if it's suppose to be a lightweight render pipeline.
     
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  9. Matt-Cranktrain

    Matt-Cranktrain

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    I'm very keen on both point light shadowing and having more than one directional light cast shadows.

    I agree, but it's also no longer the 'lightweight' render pipeline, it's the 'universal' render pipeline. So your point would stand strongly if it were still the LWRP, but it stands even stronger now it's meant to be for both mobile platforms and desktop/laptop platforms (and Nintendo Switch and whatever else).

    Of course, anyone can just use one directional light to cast shadows, or not using point light shadows, and voila, they're back to the emphasis on 'lightweight'. But having that freedom to land anywhere between low-def and med-def without migrating to the HDRP would be ideal.

    In any case, I imagine the Universal team are on this already, or will be after Camera Stacking. Some official roadmap would be very helpful, of course...
     
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  10. elbows

    elbows

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    There is one, that is linked to in the FAQ section of the documentation. However I would describe it as out of date, eg its still talking about 2019.1 and 2019.2 in future tense and does not reflect the name change to Universal either.

    https://portal.productboard.com/8ufdwj59ehtmsvxenjumxo82/tabs/3-lightweight-render-pipeline

    (from FAQ at https://docs.unity3d.com/Packages/com.unity.render-pipelines.universal@7.0/manual/faq.html )
     
  11. Matt-Cranktrain

    Matt-Cranktrain

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    Yes, I should have clarified - an up-to-date roadmap or even just a set of estimates/hopes/not-quite-promises would be helpful. That particular Productboard seems to have been written in late 2018 since it's talking about 2019.1 in the future tense! (Also, no mention of Stacked Camera which was clearly prioritised earlier this year, to the credit of the LWRP team.)

    Actually, the most recent roadmap I've seen for LWRP was this one from back in March, for GDC (scroll down to page 80 for LWRP stuff.) It sets out 2019.2 as the arrival date for Camera Stacking and an increase in the light limit for Directional lights. Obviously, that slipped, but "optimised post-processing" for 2019.3 did indeed just ship in the Alpha.

    Unity's rebranding of LWRP to Universal RP is probably much more than simply Find-And-Replace name change, and rather reflects some deeper shifts in the plans for this rendering pipeline longterm - and as such both these previous roadmaps aren't super-helpful.

    In any case, I'm looking forward to the next set of URP features that are coming.
     
  12. elbows

    elbows

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    I mention the out of date roadmap in part with the hope that it provokes someone from Unity to update it!

    Camera Stacking is listed on it, in the Mid Term section.

    In terms of Unity Roadmap talk stuff, there is at least one later set of slides out there somewherre (I dont have a link handy right now), I forget from which month but probably June.

    Not sure about that, maybe, but not necessarily. Devil is in details of what differences would be anyway, And to be honest I suspect it was largely a 'name perception' thing that caused Unity to rename LWRP - I expect they did some research and decided that the old name was getting in the way of the sort of rate of adoption they wanted to see.
     
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  13. elbows

    elbows

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  14. Matt-Cranktrain

    Matt-Cranktrain

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    I saw both those bits earlier today! It's really great news, especially the appearance of the multiple directional lights pull request, since that hasn't previously been confirmed as an in-progress task.

    (Obviously, I'm really keen to have multiple directional lights cast shadows - my project requires just two - and to see real-time shadows reach point lights too. But this is all one-step-at-a-time stuff, and I'm glad to see things progress.)
     
  15. apt-utvikler

    apt-utvikler

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    Any news here? Still the one thing keeping my team and I from fully investing in the LWRP.
     
  16. Matt-Cranktrain

    Matt-Cranktrain

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    The multiple directional lights pull request got merged into master a little while ago which means that'll be present in the next URP release, probably for 2019.3 release.

    Publicly visible work on the camera stacking branch has been quiet recently, but I just can't imagine it being anything other than the highest priority for the URP team.

    I haven't heard anything about Point Light Shadows, my personal suspicion is that that'll be only available in the Deferred rendering mode that's coming for Unity 2020. Very happy to be proved wrong though if it does arrive for Forward as well (in fact, please do!)
     
  17. Creepgin

    Creepgin

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    Looking at the repo for universal, it doesn't look like point light shadows will arrive in 2020.1. So my prediction is mid or late next year.
     
  18. elbows

    elbows

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    Its way too early to ascertain 2020.1 stuff from the version 8.x stuff that is on github so far. That version has only recently begun/appeared in public on github. And probably only appeared when it did because alpha versions of 2020.1 Unity editor got released.
     
  19. Creepgin

    Creepgin

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  20. Laumania

    Laumania

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  21. Orami

    Orami

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    Not sure if any unity people read this but it is really important to get this working. I had changed over to this pipeline to make my VR game smoother running. It fragged 90% of my textures and materials. Took a day or so but I got it all figured out. Now in my dungeon everything is dark even when there is a lit torch on the wall it is pitch black. I assume this has something to do with the LWRP and it just kills me thinking I should revert back to the other render mode now.
     
  22. CyRaid

    CyRaid

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    It looks like point light shadows are #1 voted.. You'd think it'd be a bit more important. :)
     
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  23. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    I just realized point lights cast no shadows in URP, this is unbelivable
     
  24. Laumania

    Laumania

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    Yep, it's prettttyyyy crazy and annoying.
     
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  25. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    Yes, i could not believe it at first, hope they make it a priority.
     
  26. gdespaux2010

    gdespaux2010

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    Crazy that this is still not working. Especially when you can almostttt get a similar effect by just tweaking out the Spot lights.

    For a campfire, I've got a point light on it for "general" area lighting, and then a spotlight that aims towards the player when they move close enough so that there's actually a shadow. :rolleyes:
     
  27. kripto289

    kripto289

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    Two years have passed, and still there are no shadows, lol :)
    The new rendering should be better, and give developers the opportunity to change everything you want, but alas ...
     
  28. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    Yes is strange, the pipelines are supposed to be a versatile way to define your own rendering, but seems even Unity team cant do this addition to the pipeline in years now, which means the whole idea seem impossible for any practical such use.

    I still dont see the point of pipelines at all, seem extremely needless at this point, i can even do hdrp effects with standard but extremely far more optimized and much more things than with urp and again are faster.

    I think instead of depreciating the standard, should consider the opposite way, keep it and enhance it and remove this strange pipeline idea that also fragments unity to 3 different platforms.
     
  29. kripto289

    kripto289

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    I totally agree.
    With urp / hdrp it is not possible to write custom shaders, because there is no documentation, there is no support for surface shaders. As the unity support says "use a VFX graph, you can write it to them all." Then why are their shaders not made in the "shader graph", lol.
    I don’t know how to get shadows in the shader, it’s not possible to create a custom rendering queue. No command buffers. There are no projectors (or replacements), no grabpass, no shadows, no double pass shaders, and many more things that are missing.

    urp and hdrp are useless things. unity3d was a simple and intuitive engine. Now it is very hard to learn, especially when there is no documentation on urp / hdrp.

    And testing new versions is disgusting. My projects are constantly breaking from version to version.
    They introduced about 7 different blooms for each platform.
    The hdrp distortion shader was constantly changing. At first they made an array instead of texture2d, but there is no mention of this anywhere. Then they changed the Stencil queue of the distortion buffer 2 times. And now my shaders are not working and I don’t know how to read this. I constantly have to do reverse engineering of their huge and obscure shaders.
    Now I constantly have problems with new versions.

    Unity choose weird solutions. In pursuit of AAA graphics, they complicate and break everything, and also do not understand that it is too difficult for a beginner. Even for me it's too complicated.
     
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  30. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    I agree, i have now worked extensively in both new pipelines and graph, everything about them is worse, performance worse, ease of use also.

    I remade one of shaders in graph, making something so complex without code is a nightmare because now i look at it and cant tell at all what i do there, while in code all functions are compact and clear, the graph is definitly not for any complex or custom shader work and every programmer would feel better coding a shader imo unless is super simple.
     
  31. DGordon

    DGordon

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    I'm assuming that the pipelines will make it easier for them to revamp the graphics someday without needing to overhaul an entire system. So if thats true, it makes sense to set it up ... but I'm hoping that it will become something most users never have to hear about one day, and we can just make our projects like normal unless we need to know about it for custom reasons. The idea of any normal user writing their own pipeline is obviously absurd ... the vast majority of Unity's userbase will _not_ be writing new pipelines or modifying whatever pipelines unity provides ... this is really just internal unity tech being discussed for marketing reasons. Like when I mention to someone a cool new feature Im building that no one but me will ever care about, and they just hope they never have to really know about it ever again lol. Eventually the standard will be deprecated, so we'll be left with URP and HDRP ... would be great if they dont need to write any others, and find some way of someday giving a user interface to allow both of those to be created in one project, and allow us to assign materials for either or both to a model without ever needing to really think about URP vs HDRP ... just "normal material" vs "high end material". However its done, I really hope someday a project can just be a project again, with all of this being much more hidden.

    Personally, the idea of Unity changing so many things at once in the past few years frightens me. This is exactly why ... instead of saying "hey, lets make sure we create, fix, perfect, and polish this huge new feature before releasing it", it feels like someones vision was just released into the wild, changing things drastically, and were all just hoping it turns out okay in the end. When a timeline could mean anywhere from 2 weeks to 5 years from now, or maybe vapor ware ... its unsettling.

    Hopefully my gut feeling that they're chasing a target audience that they dont have to the detriment of their current audience is just a biased emotion, and not factual. But ... I dont really understand why _so many things_ actually needed to be changed at once without finishing and polishing them up, if someone at the top didnt say the existing product wasn't able to achieve X in its current form, and that X was the immediate goal.

    I love Unity, but the IDE just feels a bit like its going through an identity crisis the past couple of years! Im just hoping they really turn into whatever it is theyre trying to become, and dont leave behind the smaller devs when they do.

    When evaluating if I want to use URP, and the decision has to include "well ... then I cant have point light shadows, but I guess its technically supposed to be _better_?", and this is years into development already ... its obvious something is going wrong, whatever it is.

    To be clear, just having a much more open conversation and place to view the status and plans for all these moving pieces would alleviate a lot my concerns about "should I use this yet?". I was already burned once by using a feature they claimed was ready for production but was actually horribly broken on one platform (and never got any official response and just had to yank it and replace with the old way of handling it). When I see something like point lights not having shadows and being on the list for years while URP being supposedly production ready, it definitely makes me wonder what other _normal standard features_ also didnt make it in yet that I dont know about, and have been waiting on a list for ages, which might end up being an issue.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
  32. DGordon

    DGordon

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    Having point light shadows and any other feature parity not yet here would probably help their adoption rate too :D. Sorry, I couldn't resist lol.

    On a more serious note, I wish Unity would always give a blatant place to see somethings status re: known bugs, missing features, etc., when pushing something new, instead of only having marketing hype up the reasons why it SHOULD be used. But probably a pipe dream.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
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  33. alimoghaddam79

    alimoghaddam79

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    pshmam , still no shadows for it lol
     
  34. Laumania

    Laumania

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    I'm sure as soon as they support this, you will see a spike in usage of URP :D
     
  35. gdespaux2010

    gdespaux2010

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    So the last dev response in this thread said "early 2019"

    We're now "mid-to-late 2020"

    Is this some obscure feature that only inexperienced, noob devs use? Maybe all the "real" AAAA devs are creating their own lights instead.

    Although, according to https://portal.productboard.com/8ufdwj59ehtmsvxenjumxo82/tabs/3-universal-render-pipeline it has the most upvotes, by a very large margin, compared to everything else listed there across 4 categories.
     
  36. rz_0lento

    rz_0lento

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    gdespaux2010 likes this.
  37. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    I hope it also gets a backport to 2019.4 LTS versions, as these version of LTS would be rather useless in URP without this crucial feature.
     
  38. BattleAngelAlita

    BattleAngelAlita

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    Give up your hopes. Whole idea of a package manager is developing packages on latest unity versions and don't support old versions, whole idea of LTS is no backporting anything to it.
     
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