Epic Online services

https://dev.epicgames.com/en-US/services

Epic stuff said this can be used even by developers which dont use UE to make their games.

I wonder how the functionality will be also payment and entire process of enabling multiplayer in our games (if someone is interested).

All in all interesting service cause i plan to implement multiplayer in my game and i'm too scary of unity solution cause it seems convoluted and nearly imposible for solo.

 

Dang Unreal really just doing it up lately ain't they? I installed Unreal earlier, I opened it up for 10ish mins, then I felt like I was cheating on my marriage and closed it, Unity made me feel horrible for opening up Unreal

Whyyy Unity, why you gotta make me your slave, the pros of ease of use makes it so hard to divorce you. lol.

But naw really, (true story actually), but anyways, this is really interesting, I'm definitely going to be looking into this.

 

Must admit, i put the link while in hype fire without study it myself but i do that already so ITS:
- Avaible NOW,
- Its free,
- Engines supported on the front are UE (obviously), Unity, Godot,
- SDK to download even for C#.

 

its a kill shot for almost every game BaaS
can't beat free (real free, not playfab free), i have no doubt many of these services will go belly up in next year

 

Nah, those BaaS providers are usually focused more on mobile/F2P, which has some quite specific requirements.

The Epic services look very interesting for anyone building an indie multiplayer game on PC, though

 

This looks awesome!

 

How do I set it up to my Unity Game though?

 

Yeah is there any tutorials for implementing EOS to a game that in Unity, or switching from Photon to this?

 

No, and it's very much a headache to get it working based off of currently available documentation.

 

Ah okay. It looks great, but I will wait until it is easier to implement.

 

Which features of the service have you implemented?

 

Considering Steam has more than double the number of players as Epic you'd be crazy not to.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-01-14-steam-has-over-120m-monthly-active-users

After all if the player only has Steam it's completely irrelevant what percentage you receive from Epic.

 

***** if EGS accepts your game... which is a question.

 

Double is not always good, most games are hidden in TRASH. This is a huge issue with Steam.

 

I already got approved, I worked closely with many of these people over the years. They also are not like STEAM to allow just any game and JUNK, which causes many good games to be hidden...So something that is important.

So don't make junk or asset flips and you won't have a problem.

 

Numbers say anything thing.

tell that to Ubisoft and other games released, many games on Epic Store do just fine, if you ever released a game on Steam, I have, after development, you are lucky to see 20%... and your game is HIDDEN. and due to all of the costs of development on top of it Steam does what for that 30% ,? Not much...I worked with plenty of games over the years, that 30% is not worth it...... Epic store has plenty of players who buy games... So that is a non issue.

Epic also lets you keep your first million...Great for smaller companies to get going as well This has allowed many developers to leave the studio to work for our selves 100% of the time rather than part time...

The issue is to many people are fan boys of one product or another, as a game developer in business, you have to use what is best for your company, by actually experiencing it, I see folks who NEVER used anything but Unity/Steam, but make negative comments about anything but Unity/STEAM.

... I can't take those folks seriously, you have to check out, and use what is best for your game and OPEN your eyes to OPTIONS...not , OH STEAM is my god, I need to stay with them because they been around... Bleh, That is like saying we need to keep using TWITTER or Google because they are around, well they have other options to use.. People need to get out of there bubble and experience other software. Then decide what is best.

I use them all for different games, teams, Investors, etc....

 

How many of those 20% will be on the Epic Games Store? That aside you make it sound like 20% is a bad number but 20% of the audience of Steam is 24 million players. Very few games have the merit to achieve that regardless of platform.

Has an existing audience that you don't need to convince to switch platforms.

There are issues with EGS too. One of the biggest is that we don't know how many of the people who have the store are there for games other than Fortnite. With Steam you don't have to worry they're there for one game.

 

That's the thing. Says Epic. But the data says otherwise. And there is no way knowing what are the criteria they are applying. Obviously worth the try and all, but going out of the way to attach yourself to a store during development, when you have no way of knowing if they even accept your application, it's crazy. Unless you know those people and trust them. Based on their behavior, I don't trust them. But obviously I don't know them personally.

 

I'm not completely positive how the stores were dragged into this but Epic's Online Services don't require you to sell through their store to take advantage of them which is one of the main reasons the group I'm contracted with chose to use them with the other being that it covered all desired platforms.

 

I know, I checked it out once, but I won't form opinion about that, I'm not that good at networking (games) to give any valuable information on it.

In theory, if I were making a network-enabled game, still don't understand why would I choose it over Steam where majority of my user-base is and which framework I would need in order to authenticate, find the users and all that. But that's just me, again, I don't know enough about networking to form a whole and well-rounded opinion.

 

any chance you can share your implementation on github or someplace? i am giving EOS a shot but spent 2 days to no avail using their "quick start" guide, compared to playfab which was like 15-20 minutes. Would be nice to see a working Unity+EOS project in action to see how it is supposed to work.

 

not sure what you mean by behavior, professionals all over the industry use Epic..... I have used Epic for 2 decades.. and Unity for about 15 or so... There is NO attachment ...GRANTS also are this way, many users like myself, got Grants not related to Epic as well.... So grants, EOS, are NOT attached to making you use there store.. I use there store because I been in business for years and sick of giving STEAM 30% for hiding our games....when Epic helps market and gives more tools, and and engine, for 12% plus the first MILLION is ours as well.... If we made that much.. These are all in the data.... and I have worked with Epic, Unity , Cry, Uni and many of others for years..... Do as you wish, makes me no difference but just sharing what is possible to do... Do as you wish , with that information . Its your game. I wish you well. No matter what you do.

PS, with EOS you can attach Steam if you want friends , Discords and much more now. Which is nice too.

 

Well 1 year later.. Playfab is going stronger than ever.
Granted, EOS has made improvements.

Playfab is pretty much free for game that isn't making any money. (if you have over 100k players and can't make money.. )

However, real free isn't really a selling point when it comes to live games? The point in paying for playfab is for dedicated support + SLA on their services.

 

yes, but we may be talking about different things. i initially thought you meant that you got it working in unity and that it took you 20 minutes to do so... but i think I misunderstood your comment and that you actually got it working in unreal instead, Since the video you sent is a completely different process than the one for c# and unity.

The C# code i have put together so far is ok, because i can create the platform successfully as a dotnet console application, but the issue is running that same code slightly adapted for the unity environment results in what i assume are library loading errors i can't yet resolve. It should work the same in every C# compilation environment but doesn't for some reason. If i knew for sure someone had gotten it working i could just ask them what the trick was and why it differs from running it as an ordinary dotnet application.

I have reviewed every scrap of topically relevant information that i could find on the internet at this time but there is no indication of why this code runs in c# through console in VS but won't run when implemented in the unity environment...

if anyone figures it out let me know, otherwise i may have to switch back to playfab.

 

UPDATE: For the benefit of any other Linux based Unity developers wanting to use EOS who might come here, i found a workaround that involved using a substitute library and posted it to reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/oal3jb/my_experience_so_far_using_epic_online_services_c/

 

Just a heads up for those who are interested in using the P2P:

- There's no support for fragmented packets yet, you have to implement that yourself.
- The library is not thread safe, so you have to do everything in the main thread, or wrap it so it runs on its own dedicated thread.
- The C# layer that marshals data to/from C# is hilariously inefficient, with lots of GC allocations, both obvious and not-so-obvious. It boxes every individual byte in your payload by calling Marshal.StructToPtr() on each one. Yes, really. Had to make several modifications to get it to be usable

 

Yes....worked in Unity and Unreal, no real difference..... I worked with Unity for years, and used EOS for BOTH , engines ... it does not take long.. even today, its even easier than it was.. but sorry cant hand it to you. I gave you some tips, resources.. if you are making games... you wont learn if I just hand over everything, no offense.. Also I wouldn't of made a good living it I did that... I spent years learning and still do.....in this industry learning never stops.

PS. one of my first comments "Epic supports all platforms, right now I'm using it for a UE PC, Console game, and a Unity Android game."

Actually now using it for a PC for Unity as well...as of late. and still UE, which has been done for both. I also helped a few clients since it was released as well. for UE, and some for Unity.

 

For the C# one yes, its lacking, compared to the UE one. in that regard. But its Unity, you need to do all of that crap anyways, and Steam is not much better.. I had to add a lot of this crap too.


First thing users should be reading anyways, is the Docs, its in the first paragraph... Not hard to do. https://dev.epicgames.com/docs/services/en-US/Platforms/index.html


The Unity C# side is also really not the new, hell EOS isn't. but in a short time, I seen many things added changed. Which has been amazing.

Soon a Unity plug in will be out too. to make life easier. https://trello.com/b/rLvzFJfE/eos-public-roadmap

 

To be fair though there is a world of a difference between providing tips and handing everything over.

 

I couldn't agree more. and I already wasted enough time, giving some basic tips and links. Which is more than I had, when I started, we had nothing... use it like the old days or fail... and figure it out, its the best way to learn. . .You tube spoils people today. its a huge reason its hard to hire any decent people to companies these days..... that know what they should.. Just saying. people begging one another for help, the last 5-10 years and gets worse every year, you would think with all the resources it would be easier, but I think it makes people lazier, or not waiting to learn beyond, coping code ...

I can be harsh, but ask anyone I mentored or helped over the years, Unity, UE and outside, they are all better for it....I do it for there own good.

if someone came here with some code and had issues, errors, I will give more tips. No problem, but I dont hand out work. it don't help anyone.

 

Not true. People don't get lezier, or more workoholics. You got instead higher reach out and volume of peple, from times, when only books existed. Now you have not only books, but Internet and videos, which can accelerate learning process by stimulating multiple senses. That brings interest to more people. Also got tons online tools, when people can start developing something, at early ages. I. E roblox, Blockly as just some of many examples. Hence we got lots of more youngsters these days, to what was back decades ago. Game massively enhance creative field.

It simply is more people doing stuff and it creates additional noise. But also tons and more cool stuff is produced. Hence more options.

One thing is harder, is to sift and filter through out of the noise. But choices are much greater.
And looking for people is still the same moreless process. Checkout sent CVs, or look for portfolios of developers by jeadhunting. Select potential candidates. Interview. Technical question them. Some online test can help filtering out. Etc.

 

See I was very fortunate in that regard. When I started QuickBASIC (primarily the free edition but the compiler edition was very easy to obtain too) was all the rage and it held your hand in ways that I have yet to see today.

In fact my own situation aside I would argue that software development in general was easier back then assuming you weren't trying to write games that took advantage of hidden features (ie unchained VGA). Visual scripting wasn't necessary because you didn't have enormous frameworks or highly complex languages.

Borland C++/Turbo C++ and Borland Pascal/Turbo Pascal all came with extensive documentation with extensive examples. By comparison just about everything modern outside of MSDN is poorly documented. Unity and EOS both lack docs in places where it is most important.

YouTube sounds like it would be a great learning resource and there have been periods like when organizations like Brackeys were still creating content but outside of those moments most of it is too much trouble to sift through or is insanely out of date. Worst yet some of the best ones out there are for very old releases (3D Buzz for Unity 3).

 

sure it was easier, to a point of view... People today, can't even do basic programming, they see C++ and scream!!!! no, way its to hard . where is my You tube video, so I can copy and paste code... The industry has been hurting for even decent programmers today, this is a fact, and its mostly due to this fact.. I worked for plenty of studios over the decades , its not getting better but worse.. and programming is NOT getting harder, if anything its even easier..

Artist are a dime a dozen, but good ones, is another story, most have no idea what good edge flow, or topology is... they will say something is game ready, and the damn thing is 10 Million Polygons. You know how many times a day I hear, Recon, can I hire you, to optimize my game, its running at 2FPS... I hear that so many times a day, its a joke and every time, its these so called artist... That has no idea what an Trimsheet is, or what proxies meshes are, and so on...

So, programming people see visual shaders and they throw a fit, I been a SUbstance designer user for years, and there is NOT many of us.... due to the fact people are scared to use good programs, they scare way to easy... I find things today easier due to the fact so many resources.. .when I started in 1980, we had NOTHING TO go by...Nothing, we just did it...

So if you say other wise, that tells me, you never worked back then..... because it was that way, when we worked in the studios in the 90's, people would met and everyone was doing things so different, we had to learn from one another... Back then everyone also helped one another, Ego was left out, if you worked at some studios today, alot won't, they let egos get in the way, or you find people who look for a YOU TUBE video with out tempting to learn..... the basics... You can't learn the basics, if someone takes you by the hand and JUST gives it to them...all the time, if you say other wise, tells me you never released a game before.. Just saying.. I don't have time to sit on a forum all day... I see some people who HAVE the time to... I don't, i'm actually working...

PS : People should be team players, but NOT to the point of DOING someone work for them....Sorry it don't work that way, there is a difference..

I have mentored for years, consulted, and every person I have, is better for it.. if you hand someone everything, they won't learn a damn thing, like I said they need to try it.... Half of it is set up..... Not coding nothing, I have yet to hear anyone, bring up this fact, so this means not many have even tempted it yet, to many look for Hand outs first.... TRY it, first...COME back, when you have a problem and your stuck..

PROBLEM solving, Trouble shooting are TWO important aspects of a programmer...... If someone can't do those, they are in trouble..

ALso if I handed all my hard work, I would of never made a good living.. I bet others get paid when they go to work..... Game developers, programmers do as well...

 

I'm very sorry, but... you say you don't have time to give tips and sit on the forums the whole day, and then write massive walls of text as if they don't need time to be written

 

Amazing irony here... Just saying.

 

I think if people actually asked nicely and offered to return the favour it might sway a grizzled old dev. It's worked on me a few times

 

You're kidding, right? The 90s? The rise of the rock star dev?

 

Gotta say I share Recon's experiences... rock stars existed but still shared info with me, polite and free with it.

These days the only massive egos I see are from indies. And obviously indies still share info. Ego is pumped up by media more than anything nowadays.

 

Massive egos have long been a problem in tech circles and games, it's nothing new. Hell, massive egos are why so many discussions about language choice and even design patterns are treated as dogmatic. The FOSS community has also had a long-running problem with this.

If anything, you are likely just being exposed to a much larger sample size.

 

I wouldn't say that, i'm just old. lol


but I see this really bothers you, when someone has experience. Jealousy ...maybe, dislike older devs maybe?

Many developers started in the 80-90's, not new.... where do you think games started .... , it just means we are old and been doing this for years.. nothing more. Tons of us here..... actually... Jason Booth, started in the old AC days, Shader One, develop Scott and many more, been around for decades too..

Jason is a rock star shader coder though. as Scott is too. Adam from PW has been around many years... as well.....

 

Yes, I agree. sadly. I have helped people all the time, yet you still sadly have people who will treat you poorly or have the nerve to say no thats wrong with out trying.. Sadly people are just full of ego.. I can be a blunt person.. some take that the wrong way. But, I always help folks with in reason, but I want people to try to help them selves first. Alot of leeches and lazy folks out there...


Part of the reason I left Discord, as it distracted me from all the DM's I would get for help, some where always respectful, but you always had your jerks, expecting the help and got pissed if I didn't jump..

I just don't understand some people at the studio, I would get people like that, EGO, and just some jerks.. but I did meet some nice folks over the years.

 

lol. .. I see post sometimes and feel bad when no one helps, I helped some guy the other day, who was waiting for weeks, for an animation issue... lol, so I had to help him, I felt bad. no one was. ( I actually helped him for like 3-4 hours.. lol

 

First of all, if you seen me..... I rarely come here... So nice try... All day, HA, I WISH, people like you sir are the reason I dont help... here. anymore..... .. Just saying


VETS get sick of folks that act like you.


ALL day/!!1 My game must be coding and modeling itself, LOL.. and my kids must be teaching them selves. .... . KIDS today PFFT.... learn manners, SON..

 

iRONY, because I won't HAND you my hard work?? I took the time to give him resources, I won't next time..

So when you go to work tomorrow, be sure to HAND your check to a stranger ok??? and when people TREAT you poorly, be sure to give it to THAT person....

LOL...

PS: I wonder why vets , don't come here much anymore, its rare , I do, I forgot what it was like, with some...Unity users... ( Thank god, I don't have to deal with this over at UE...)

if he would of came here with some code, or was actually stuck, I would of helped him, but NOW you can... Good luck. it gets exhausting here.)

by the way how many people have you helped in the last year??? or period... Ya that is what I thought...... Got to love some Unity users.... Great way to TRY and get help . . Get busy, he needs help. lol..

 

when I worked as a contractor before I retired, last year, a lot of the studios guys disliked the contractors, so we seen a lot of it.. we always had some would share, and some wouldn't. But I always did no matter what. but I stopped sharing in the last 6 months, as much, as people got to disrepectful.. . It gets exhausting.. and to many expected it..... I would try and get folks to atleast try to do it, and I always would help them through it, if they where respectful, the minute they act like idiots, like as you see, I was done with them. I made a list of people, and that list got large of people I would never help....

So, no one should EXPECT help, or have everything handed to them... Hell I didnt see one person even attempt to help this dude, but I sent him some resources, but people took to insults or rude remarks.. because I wouldnt hand someone ALL of my work.. are you kidding me?? So do asset developers hand people there work? No. If the guy would of asked me, hey, Recon!! Can you help me sure, I would had.. But I wont hand him everything.. .No.. lol..

Just saying, I find it funny people would rather insult then help this dude, that is the Irony here. I wish him luck getting help from ONE person here.. ..

If people think I have an ego for NOT handing a new user, my work that I sold before ... for free... to just him.... People better Start handing others strangers there work checks then too... People shouldn't be hyprocrites._

 

@Recon03 no disrespect, but this thread not meant to be about you, or your way of dealing with people.
But look, halve of this thread is about you and your presume experience. Maybe simply you tried help wrong people, without being assertive ... or take too much personally.

But we should really back on the OP's subject.

 

lmao you really jump right into trying to pathologize things huh?

Also wow, the irony coming off your posts.

 

Technically older than that since the Atari 2600 was 1977. Looking at the category section for 1970s games I'm actually a little surprised there were as many as there were. I knew about the ones that started life on university computers but I wasn't aware there were this many pre-2600.

The 80s is simply when it became feasible for anyone to be a game developer since early 8-bit machines started appearing in homes and the cassette tapes most indies used were very affordable both for developers and their customers.

I loved that time period and still have all of my hardware and software.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:1970s_video_games

Speaking of which I'm using EOS in a project and it will most likely be the last time I use it. We've had difficulties getting it working on NDA'd platforms and when we tried to approach Epic Games we received no response and when we went to sign up for premium support to get it that way the page 404'd. Just an awful experience.

Getting it working on standalone is straightforward so if you only plan to target those platforms you'll be alright but for platforms outside of standalone I can't recommend it in the slightest. My own future projects will most likely be with PlayFab.

 

May I ask you to expand on your reasons? I'm currently looking at it and I really would like to not to develop an entire library just to find out if it's a big pile of clunky garbage.
(I have my suspicions as it can be found in this very thread... the API is a bit clunky, the documentation is lacking, although it's not news when it comes to Epic and some comments in the docs is a bit interesting for me. I'm looking for actual data to find out if my suspicion is correct or not)

 

My biggest complaint is an overall lack of documentation. It has a very basic overview of how to get everything working on standalone and mobile platforms but everything outside of those platforms is only documented through short comments in the code. There are no official tutorials.

My second complaint is receiving support. There is a public-facing support forum available but since it's public-facing you can't rely on it for anything outside of standalone and mobile. Trying to contact Epic Games by email hasn't worked and their premium support sign-up page 404's.

My final complaint is that the C# API is a bit of a mess. There is entirely too much fluff code that serves no purpose that should have been removed and it only serves to make it more difficult to understand what's supposed to be happening under the hood.

Speaking of under the hood the actual code that communicates with the server is a DLL with no source code and the code provided is basically wrapping around it. I haven't verified but I believe it's the same for the C++ SDK.