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Epic Games Store

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by moonjump, Dec 4, 2018.

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  1. Murgilod

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    Valve's review system is just a salt mine and a makeshift bug report system. It's also flooded by useless garbage on a lot of titles begging for things like Chinese localisation. It does not "help" and you can literally find reviews anywhere else on the internet.
     
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  2. Antypodish

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    While I agree with salt mine bit, finding on internet minor games reviews may be difficult. Is much easier for big titles.
    For me personally, having just 1-5 stars just simply don't work.
    I think major problem on steam reviews, comes from Green Light and Early Access features.
    If not for these, surely would be less of rubbish.
     
  3. Murgilod

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    I would rather have no reviews than a poor quality review system.
     
  4. Antypodish

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    I think review system is generally difficult problem to solve. The cleanest would be marking score, for certain features. But then, every game is different (apart from thousands of clones ;p)
     
  5. Murgilod

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    A big problem I'm noticing with Epic's store is the complete lack of regional pricing. I tend to set prices based on regional buying power because economic situations vary wildly across the globe, so $20 USD is very different in a major American city compared to a city in Portugal, for instance. Hell, $20 USD is different in New York and Akron.
     
  6. orb

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    I'm seeing prices in Euros. Still not local currency, but that also makes them more expensive because they make a dollar equal a Euro.

    One of the pages in the launcher also plays a bunch of animations which slow down navigation something awful. I'm not sure they even tested that.
     
  7. DgoodingIndi

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    As a dev It's neat seeing a store-front to compete with steam that offers more to devs.

    As a consumer, taking a moment to look at the store, I probably wouldn't use it.
    Mostly because of it's current layout of just fat images with zero feedback on the games.

    I'm usually in the minority here, and i'm guessing many of you will disagree with me.

    But the layout kinda feels like something my older friends, and family members (40-50+) would use because they don't know any better. Which I guess is the point?

    I hope as more games roll out on the platform it evolves into something structurally useful, and not just a giant tumblr looking wall.
    but if not i'll probably be sticking with steam, and periodically dropping in to grab the free games.
     
  8. zenGarden

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    I only read front page news about a game, i never browse screenshots or other stuff, when i want more news it's faster and better on a browser than using Steam.
    Not sure this is so important.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
  9. yoonitee

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    But you can view the Steam store in a browser. That's what I always do.
     
  10. AndersMalmgren

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    And reviews like these doesnt tell much about a games quality

    upload_2018-12-8_14-37-51.png
     
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  11. orb

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    Even the UAS has a better review system, because it tells you if a review was for a previous version. You have to do some digging on Steam, and even then there's no guarantee that, say, a review for an early access game is also for the latest available version. I play a few games which take extra effort (sometimes even unlock codes) to get the latest alpha/beta, where the game is completely different.
     
  12. AndersMalmgren

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    Arent the reviews reset when you leave EA? Or atleast flagged?
     
  13. yoonitee

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    So the Epic Game store won't even have reviews?
     
  14. Antypodish

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    Means it wont be so epic ;)
     
  15. zenGarden

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    Reviews is essential for any products store, this should come at some point.
     
  16. Antypodish

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    Agreed. I can not imagine, if they would not plan to implement otherwise.
     
  17. zenGarden

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    Yea, most players need buyers reviews, particulary for games that are does not have enough coverage and reviews.
     
  18. orb

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    There are notes on how and when the buyer got the game and reviewed, but I dunno how the weighting of reviews work to calculate final scores.
     
  19. Lurking-Ninja

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    Epic isn't any better in UX than Unity. :D
     
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  20. AcidArrow

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    AFAIK the plan is to not have reviews.

    It’s a good thing. It means bots/paid reviews won’t be a thing and users won’t be able to blackmail developers into implementing features they want (I’ve seen plenty of “good game, but doesn’t have x 1/5" reviews).
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
  21. Murgilod

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    Most developers do not want these features because they are a liability at best and a known negative side effect of dealing with Steam. Not only is this stated in the thing I quoted that started all this, but it's also a part of my experience in dealing with these first hand, and also a part of my experience in talking to a lot of developers who have released on Steam. They do not bring in loads more people, they do not lead to more exposure, and most of the actual sales numbers I have seen have never even been remotely impacted by this stuff. Hell, curators are just as bad, if not worse.

    The only time these things were good were within the first three months of release when nobody was really using them.
     
  22. AcidArrow

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  23. Lurking-Ninja

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    No reviews? :D So we cannot know what users really think about these games? Lol. Oh well, one more reason to not to go there to buy actual stuff. I hate when a couple of self-appointed "experts" try to tell me if I would enjoy a game or not. There is a reason I don't buy gaming magazines anymore and I don't read gaming site reviews. They don't report on games nowadays, they are trying to enforce some half-baked ideas on readers. If they even mention a game at the first place. I think reviews are useful, because one data point (curator or reviewer) is utterly garbage, the magnitude of thousands of reviews is closing in to reality.

    (One by one the reviews are also garbage, but this is not the point of the reviews... just sayin')
     
  24. Murgilod

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    If only there were thousands of user curated review sites all over the internet... alas, the internet only has three websites on it.
     
  25. Lurking-Ninja

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    What exactly is your point? Steam shows everything on the page you're looking at. That's my point. Maybe one by one a review is bad and garbage, but when you have hundreds or thousands, it's an entire different thing. And Steam has it in one place, you don't need to shop around on multiple sites to get some info, it's right at you where you can buy the stuff. But well, if you enjoy go in circles and try to find the info, I'm not stopping you.

    edit: oh, and "curated" is bad. It is not equal to "quality", it really just means "opinion".
     
  26. AcidArrow

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    Why is that not okay though?
     
  27. Lurking-Ninja

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    I didn't say "not okay", but "everyone" (yeah exaggeration a bit) see curation as a magic wand, so if something is curated than the garbage will be out and everybody will be happy and stuff. This is not the case. Curation does not solve problems at least not complex ones (unless your problem is that other people like to play half-baked games too). Curation enforces some vague ideas. Some will agree with it, some won't. I usually don't. Oh and I hate the "influencer-culture" from the bottom of my heart. But I guess that's clear at this point. :D
     
  28. Murgilod

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    Steam's reviews are also user curated. There's voting systems on the reviews themselves.
     
  29. AcidArrow

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    Sure (and same), but non-curation still enforces influencer culture, since in a sea of games, you need someone to tell you what to buy. I mean, how are the user curators that Steam has, not influencer culture at its worst?

    I don't think curation solves "everything" (or whatever), but I prefer it from complete lack of curation.
     
  30. stormwiz

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    Epic's marketplace is very tough to get your content approved. They're not just gonna take anyone like Steam does.
    Steam needs to bring the split to 90/10 to sweeten the deal or developers are going to walk.
    Here's the start of the domino effect: https://steamcommunity.com/app/210770/discussions/0/1743353798892269152/
    check out the links bellow and see how serious Epic is:
    https://kotaku.com/the-guy-behind-steam-spy-has-been-working-on-epics-stor-1830890162
    https://steamspy.com/about
    Facts:
    1- Epic Launcher has 200 million plus users
    2- Epic Marketplace and soon Game Store is very curated. This equal no garbage games like what happens on Steam.
    3- Epic store will give your game more exposure than Steam. Plus they could also have a dedicated Twitch stream just for the store. At least your game could get free publicity during the weekly streams and Twitch. Who does that anyways?
    4- No entry fee. Steam charges $100 for your submission.
    5- Affiliates and content creators like youtubers will get a 5% commision for referring players to the site. Think about guys like Ninja, PewDiePie, etc. With them alone it won't be long.
    6- Epic is also doing a free game every 2 weeks for a year.
    7- If you submit your game to Epic and you're serious, they could fund you from $10,000 to $50,000 no questions ask.

    By 2020 their won't be nobody going to Steam to buy games. If they do go all they'll find is a few a few skeletons and cobwebs unless again they stop gorging themself and change things quickly.

    If the game is worthy than it doesn't matter where you get it and the inconvenience it may caused.
    Installing a new launcher is no trouble at all. Chances are you already have Epic's launcher and for the consumer is not going to be a problem at all. Plus we don't have to be online to play. Steam is going to change the split to 90/10 or they are going to feel the pain soon. For the developers this is great news cause it could force others like the app store and google to change as well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
  31. Ryiah

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    Honestly, in the vast majority of cases, I already know what people have said about a game before I go to the actual store page for the game. Searching YouTube for reviews and Let's Plays almost always provides way more information than the reviews on Steam.

    On a side note, is anyone else amused by the Epic fanbois that have crawled out of the woodwork for this thread?
     
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  32. Murgilod

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    There's no evidence that the Fortnite community has any interest in buying games outside of Fortnite or even the Fortnite gaming model, or even that they're interested in buying anything at all. Fortnite is free to play.

    That depends on your definition of garbage.

    This is highly debatable as we don't even know what the sales or even view figures are yet.

    This is true, but conversely it's far more difficult to get on the platform. This comes down to a personal choice: what do you prefer? $100 to get on the store with the plan that you'll make at least that much back, or nothing until you're approved by Epic, which may never happen. We know nothing of what they're looking for in terms of what gets on the store yet.

    This only matters if your game is palatable to a Youtube/Twitch audience. If it isn't, well...

    This all depends on the games that are being given away. Right now it's Subnautica (which has been on sale about a million times and is well into the long-tail of sales) and the next one is Super Meat Boy, which is nearly a decade old at this point.
     
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  33. stormwiz

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    Honestly I have no idea how they're going to weed out the garbage, but they did hired that "Spy Guy " who has been working on the project for several years now.

    Fortnite may be free to play, but according to this chart someone should tell the parents before they end up taking out a mortgage on their home. My daughter is sucking us dry.
    Every season gets bigger and loader. Is not going to stop anytime soon.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/865601/fortnite-revenue/
    Is estimated around $380M based on this chart.
     
  34. Murgilod

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    You do realise that most of that is from people who are referred to as whales, right? The model is the same across the board: a small percentage of the population buying things is propping up the rest.

    Also, without spending $50 I'm not even going to be able to see the methodology they used to reach that number, so I'm not putting any stock into it.
     
  35. stormwiz

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    Regardless of whatever techniques are being used. The fact is Fortnite took PubG crown back in march I think. This was during the time PubG was making around $125M per month.
    The bottom line is Epic's Store is going to give back to developers what they deserve. which is a fair share of the earnings and at the same time send a message to the industry giants to stop gorging of the backs of developers.
     
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  36. Murgilod

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    That's because PUBG costs money. You are ignoring a lot of factors here.
     
  37. Antypodish

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    That means, either you spend time, studding every single game, or games on store, are only the big titles. Me as potential customer, have no time, to read hundereds forums, to find out about every game on store.


    Problem this days is, is very easy to make nice picture and stick it on the wall. We don't even know, if all this games are even suppose to be finished. Or may be another way, to shuffle early access games, without risk of being flooded with bad reviews. Providing they get pass curating.

    For that reason I am not attracted.
    This is like going to game shop back days. You could see hundreds of titles on shelfs. Unless you been exposed to adverts about title, or read somewhere, or you specific fan of the genre, you probably won't be attracted to other titles.

    Reviews gives at least idea, what game is about, or weather game is worth an attention.

    Curating can go only so far. Risking exposure to bias, in my humble opinion.
     
  38. Ryiah

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    I never said anything about reading hundreds of forums. I said I search YouTube for reviews and Let's Play videos. Videos have the advantage that you can see the gameplay in action. By comparison the majority of Steam reviews are one or two paragraphs that don't provide you with any meaningful information.

    Just as an example check out the reviews for The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Special Edition. Almost none of them say anything about the game and the fact is these reviews are very much the norm for Steam.

    https://store.steampowered.com/app/489830/The_Elder_Scrolls_V_Skyrim_Special_Edition/
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
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  39. Antypodish

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    I never said you did ;) But the point is, that to get some knowledge about major of titles, there is required significant amount of time required, to spend outside the store itself, to get self educated. Either reading forums, or spending watching videos and reading reviews. That is not feasible for everyone. Not to mention, small games may not have such exposure (someone mentioned already in some previous posts).
     
  40. Murgilod

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    Steam reviews solve none of this because it requires just as much effort to parse good reviews from bad as it does to look up gameplay online or find reviews elsewhere.
     
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  41. Ryiah

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    No, I don't agree in the slightest. If you see a game you like the look of on Steam it is trivial to go to YouTube, type in the name of the game with the word "review" after it, and hit enter. You will almost always have at least one page reviews both from well known companies (eg IGN) and from individuals.

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Skyrim+SE+Review
     
  42. Antypodish

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    Actually general review score, give first indication about the game quality.
    Weather is mixed, is positive etc.

    If somehow interested, but review is mixed, I tend to look on bad reviews, why is mix. And look for constructive critique.
    Also, good secondary indication is, how game evolves. Specially multiplier based games, where not uncommon, where multiplier dies. Hence reviews plummeting down to drain, at the end of life cycle of the game.
     
  43. Ryiah

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    Except it doesn't because there are people saying negative things only to leave a positive review, people saying positive things only to leave a negative review, and then there are the people who played for half an hour and gave their opinion.

    Steam's Skyrim SE page has some great examples.

    This guy was pissed... but, oh hey, a positive review. Clearly that means it's a good game, right?
    Didn'tLikeIt.png

    This guy thought the game was immersive... but only played for 30 minutes.
    Immersive.png
     
  44. Murgilod

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    Wow, that sure sounds like as much work as using any other method.
     
  45. Antypodish

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    But you referring in example to well known title. I want same exposure for small titles, as big titles on the front shop page. That is why I am mentioning review system. 100th clone of falppy bird will not have such exposure outside store, even if is good, but not having review system.
     
  46. Antypodish

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    Actually not, is 2 clicks. Filter and graph.
     
  47. Ryiah

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    Exactly. Imagine the state of reviews for a lesser known game if the well known ones have useless reviews.
     
  48. Murgilod

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    Except those two clicks still require you to read the content of those reviews. And you still have to filter out irrelevant results (see "chinese localisation pls" getting loads of upvotes from a whole S***load of people in china, or any other mess of absolutely stupid reviews) from relevant ones. You are ignoring the work you have to do after the click.
     
  49. stormwiz

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    I think the Epic store should implement filters to allow easy search and customer experience.
    For example: by, Popularity, Price, Latest, Free To Play, Early access, Category and most reviews.
    This will probably come much later once the store has maybe 500 to 1000 games.
    What do guys think could help out weed out the games. Maybe most played games, now trending.

    The more filters the easier we could get that game and not be lost. Everytime I visit Steam and start to search for games, I feel like I'm lost in a field of lettuce.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
  50. Antypodish

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    Is not difficult to scan text, to recognise weather is worth to read. Not sure where is your issue.
    For example

    upload_2018-12-9_5-25-18.png

    Is like reading CVs, spending fraction of time on scanning review, you can get more less its value.
     
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