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Don't hire Seven Davis: Apprenticeneauxs

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Goldrake, Mar 28, 2014.

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  1. Goldrake

    Goldrake

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    He will contact you asking for a 50% of discussed fee of the service (low price), you will agree with the timing and he will never produce anything.
    He lies continuosly on the reason because he hasn't produced nothing yet.

    We agreed for a 3D character work to be made in 1 month and after 45 days since the payament he never showed me even 1 screenshot of the WIP.

    Now it's 10 days that doesn't answer anymore to my question on when the work will be done.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2014
  2. willemsenzo

    willemsenzo

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    It's not the first time I see his name come up in a negative context.... Do a google search and see for yourself.
     
  3. CharlieSamways

    CharlieSamways

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    Do your background checks, then don't moan when you get screwed over. It's really quite simple stuff people.
     
  4. Bivrost

    Bivrost

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    What I really don't understand is, why you guys pay anyone upfront? I've worked on quite some projects as a freelancer (both games and non-game related) and I never got paid in advance. Also I don't know any serious freelancers (neither coders nor artists) who get paid before at least delivering some results. And I don't know any company who gave away their money without seeing that the hired person is able to produce what was agreed upon. So please, just don't do that! No matter if you know the person or not or if you are about to yield to despair. It doesn't matter if the person shows you fancy profiles, portfolios, screenshots, references or whatsoever. This is just the obligatory step for a freelancer to get a job, to get paid a freelancer has to deliver. For instance, arrange a down payment for a specific sub-goal or milestone. The worst case for you should be that you lose time and have to pay a specific amount for a week's work or so and contract another aspirant if you are not happy with what was delivered to you. Both sides take risks here, the freelancer risks not to get (fully) paid, the contractor at least risks to lose time. Don't mistake this with some sort of Kickstarter funding business.
     
  5. Goldrake

    Goldrake

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    Yes Bivost, it's the way i'm doing now: milestones with wip, and then a mileston payment.
    What i'd like to communicate with this to all is to not hire hime because it's not a fair person.
     
  6. Chariots

    Chariots

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  7. CharlieSamways

    CharlieSamways

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    I always charge upfront. too many times has a client left without paying. its all about reputation, luckily I have quite a nice reputation here so people dont mind doing that payment plan, however if you do a simple background check on someone like Davis its obvious you dont go forward with that method. its jut common sense.
     
  8. wccrawford

    wccrawford

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    50% up-front is a pretty common way to freelance, which is why many people just accept it. Milestone payments are better, but they require the work of actually setting up milestones. And people generally just shy away from work that appears unnecessary.
     
  9. Mike-Geig

    Mike-Geig

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    This.

    When working with someone new, I always charge 50% upfront (never 100% though, that's just arrogant). Another thing to consider is the possibility that you man not actually be able to complete the work. With that in mind, I always store the 50% in an account until the project is done in case I need to give it back. If I work with someone for a long time, then I am a bit more flexible with pay (as well as they are).

    All that being said, I don't like threads that call specific people out. I get wanting to protect others, but you could just right a general "look out for this behavior" thread without pointing fingers.

    My 2 cents.
     
  10. goat

    goat

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    Back when there was another kerfluffle about Steven Davis - I asked him to do a job and would pay him $200 if he did when complete. He did not and he didn't contact me again. I did so to allow him the chance to show he was legit. I was going to post the results in these forums.

    $200 is cheap. A well known 3D artist (I won't mention his name) that does very nice 3D sculpt caricatures in Z-Brush of well known people agreed to do a caricature of me using sculptris for $200. I paid him $100 before $100 after. I was surprised at the price but after he was done the likeness was such that I knew he could do unique game characters and so I asked him to create a set of 3 game characters for me. Although you can be pretty sure that's easier than the sculptris sculpture and that he has lots of nearly complete game character templates at the ready the price went up to $800 each. It's a business and a professional is going to charge you professional rates. $200 for a finished exclusive property game character is not a professional rate.

    Apply the above logic to any 'professional' you meet in some forum. I chose the sculptris artist above via reputation and seeing his work and portfolio on YouTube his website.

    Another thing: a good indicator is if the 3D models in a portfolio have the 'generic' 'realistic' zombie, war game, or medieval genre look it very likely a spoofed portfolio or a portfolio where one is making small mods and altering textures on PD 3D models they've obtained from somewhere. I look for portfolios that have an original cartoon caricature look as that's a sure sign of artistic talent.

    Beware TurboSquid - unless you are completely up to date on all the intellectual property of various countries so you can evaluate all the great cartoon caricature on offer there (Disney characters for sale are the most obvious violation) you can waste a lot of money and invite a law suit. And besides that, most of the Turbo Squid offering aren't suitable for game play and can't be converted. They were made for animation purposes and are either classroom examples for sale or stolen for various professional sites and offered for resale. There are legitimate TurboSquid offerings but they tend to be $200 and up and still aren't suitable for game play.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2014
  11. Goldrake

    Goldrake

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    I gave him the concept art, the up-front monay, then we agreed for a wip screenshot to do revisions. But he invented so many lies fro 45 days without produce anything. Before posting this i thought and re-thought, contacted-recontacted him....nothing....


     
  12. goat

    goat

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    Really, don't do business on the forums - there are a few that you know that can be trusted but that requires you read the forums for months to figure out who those people are and I mean the forum outside 'looking for work'...

    So read the forums for months to figure out who they are...DodgerX Nipoco are two that I know the do modeling that is good but I don't know of any others that contribute posts regularly to the forums. At least that I would buy their work. Look in the Asset Store - most of them will do custom models - but again - at professional prices - not Unity Asset Store prices.

    If they aren't contributing outside those 'looking for work' forum subsections and aren't in the Asset Store it's much more likely they aren't legitimate professionals at what they claim to be. Because, after all, how long has the Asset Store been around now? A legitimate modeler that is turning down the opportunity to sell in the Asset Store to make someone like yourself a 3D model for $100 or $200 dollars is stretching credibility to the maximum.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2014
  13. Meltdown

    Meltdown

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    When working with new people...

    1.) Use Paypal or some other payment system where you can lodge a payment dispute to get your money back
    2.) Keep initial milestones really small to minimise risk on both sides
    3.) Do research on the forums, and GET REFERENCES, you didn't get any references did you?

    Oh and can someone please BAN THIS GUY from the community. Apprenticeneaux/Darquelord/Steven Davis. This is the 3rd time now I've read about him ripping people off.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2014
  14. Goldrake

    Goldrake

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    1) I used paypal. This is the case where it can't be so useful with dispute
    2) i did it
    3) i didn't get references, but i talked with him for over a month and he was persuasive

    he firmed also a contract with out company with milestones etc.. He is really a bad guy.

    Yes maybe it's a good idea.
     
  15. I am da bawss

    I am da bawss

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    .

    BAM !! Another victim.
    It goes like a clockwork every few months.

    There are at least half a dozen threads about this Steven Davis guy that pops up every few months with people complaining they been scammed by him. Then the Unity Moderators will usually jump in to protect him (and themselves) by locking the thread and even sometimes deleting reference and his name in the thread (thus by making it impossible to search). But there are quite a few of these threads about him if you had done your due diligence which is just a simple cursory search of his name (and nick name) on this forum you would have found out about him.


    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/11...-a-client-expect-from-an-Art-service-provider
    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/143183-We-were-deceived
    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/164790-Apprenticeneauxs-(Steven-Davis)-Scammer-in-Unity-Forum!
    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/148014-Do-Not-hire-Steven-Davis!
    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/225166-Forum-member-Apprenticeneauxs-Took-my-money-no-service

    I am pretty sure there are a lot more threads about him but I just can't find it in the forum search anymore (its probably got deleted by the mod or his name/nick name is removed from the thread which makes it impossible to search).


    So when is Unity mod ever going to learn?
    How many victims are enough?
    And who is going to bet that when a mod is awake he is going to lock this thread too and then let it bury, and in a few month, another person going fall victim and make this exact same thread in the forum again?
     
  16. minionnz

    minionnz

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    Third time I've heard about him in the short time I've been hanging around here as well. Just ban him already - mods need to take a harsher approach to scammers etc - Unity's community is it's biggest asset, don't let a few bad eggs ruin the whole basket.
     
  17. CarterG81

    CarterG81

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    Awesome detective work.

    Thanks for helping to defend us from these con artists.

    You are da bawss.
     
  18. SmellyDogs

    SmellyDogs

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    He ripped us off $400. He uses lots of names so I don't see how he can be banned, but I suppose what could be done is put a link up to the artwork that he uses to sell himself.

    What happened with us is he actually did give us something - an empty map with some free assets like trees on it, like 5 minutes of work. Then he said its not finished, and we paid him, then the excuses started coming, every week it was another excuse for about 2 months until eventually he disappeared altogether. I think he actually sees it as a game and enjoys the cat and mouse.
     
  19. Zeblote

    Zeblote

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    Why did you pay him
     
  20. goat

    goat

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    Must be on 'lifer' on welfare or something to waste time stealing such a small amount of money. Maybe he's drug addicted and when he runs low on drug money he hits the forums.

    He isn't stealing enough or clever enough to even be considered a competent crook. If he spent the amount of time engaged in a productive activity he would earn much more in the time he's spent stealing what amounts to a pittance. Heck, he could have learned Blender well enough to make that money in the time he's wasted, if I managed to.
     
  21. thinksquirrel_lily

    thinksquirrel_lily

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    Honestly, it seems like he's been stealing a decent amount (several thousand really), if you include the fact that there could be people who haven't posted on the forums who have been affected. I feel like it would be in *someone's* interest to go after them legally, especially if it continues.

    What country is this guy based out of?
     
  22. goat

    goat

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    He is in Louisiana, USA (Baton Rouge or nearby I think) and is on LinkedIn too...

    That's why I said he'd not a competent crook (thankfully). You have to be elected to government to be considered a competent crook, in the US at least.

    As a side note - to report this guy to the 'official' US government agency for Internet crime ( http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx associated with the US FBI) is a waste of time when the FBI is so busy going after terrorists, violent criminals, big money criminals, drug dealers, and corrupt politicians. I reported a crime last year to that agency and even sent them irrefutable evidence and didn't even get a 'We received your criminal complaint.' from them.

    The best chance is to file with the local police jurisdiction or if the guy is using PayPal past victims need to band together and get him banned from PayPal. If they use his identifying information to ban him then even opening a new bank account or credit card won't help. Of course they is Google Wallet and such...

    But I'll repeat - don't do business with anyone in these forums if they aren't in the Asset Store. There are a few exceptions, like the well-known hippocoder in these forums, but those exceptions are typically far too busy to even consider a subcontracting request I would think. Besides hippocoder is a programmer not an artist/modeler.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2014
  23. lmbarns

    lmbarns

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    Definitely report his paypal account for anything you can think of, fraud, piracy, anything.

    I knew one guy who was doing shady stuff over paypal and after losing several of his confirmed accounts he stopped doing it because he had such a hard time/long process getting new accounts confirmed and they'd instantly get frozen after an angry person kept tracking him down and reporting each one..

    Maybe set google alerts for his name/aliases and poopoo on his future scams if you feel like spending the time/rounding up other victims....
     
  24. carking1996

    carking1996

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    I think reporting it to paypal would also be the best option here. He should be taken down, then.
     
  25. Amon

    Amon

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    This guy has been conning people on these forums for a long time. Why? Because there really isn't much anybody can do, even Unity. Not even his doctor or psychiatrist can do anything especially the plastic surgeon.

    When your willy is that small and you have to take it out on innocent people by conning them of their money, even though your Plastic Surgeon has told you no amount of money will gain you even a millimetre, you have to ask yourself why you bother and whether it would be better just to chop of that little itsy bitsy and call it a day...
     
  26. Amon

    Amon

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    Oh, I'd like to add also, that, even though this guy is the son of a thousand fathers, all bastads like he is, it's still no excuse to con people out of their money.
     
  27. CharlieSamways

    CharlieSamways

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    To be fair, all those assumptions you just made are incredibly offensive and not right, at most stereotypical. This one particular person is an issue, please don't make the assumption that all those on welfare are the equivalent to this scammer, thats just wrong.
     
  28. Meltdown

    Meltdown

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    You paid him money, it was agreed after a month you would get the character. 45 days have passed.
    You have nothing.

    Would you mind explaining to me why that is not disputable?
     
  29. CharlieSamways

    CharlieSamways

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    disputing with digital goods isn't as easy as physical goods, either way the buyer normally wins, disputing would solve the issue in most cases.

     
  30. Dabeh

    Dabeh

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    I can't see how you expect every programmer on this forum to make an asset or else they aren't to be trusted. I have an asset planned for the asset store, but I'm far too busy right now to work on it. I have another asset I was going to release but decided to make it a service instead(which is very expensive).

    Are you saying I'm not to be trusted just because I'm too busy with work to make an asset for the store? I don't have anywhere enough time to be answering support email from customers right now, how on earth can you equate that to me being untrustworthy with that much assurance behind it?

    When did he make the assumption that all those on welfare are addicted to drugs..? I'd say minus that, it's an accurate assessment.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2014
  31. lmbarns

    lmbarns

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    It is if you didn't receive them. If you specifically claim that you didn't receive it and the person doesn't show where they sent it to you, you get your money back. I've bought digital animations and content off sites using paypal and didn't get them and have always got my money back. There are 2 parts, you have to dispute it, then wait like 10+ days and then actually file the claim. I've had the seller answer the dispute and give me the stuff as well as hearing nothing and filing the actual claim and have received my money back 3x in the past year.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2014
  32. Meltdown

    Meltdown

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    I've had two previous cases with PayPal where I've paid money upfront, and services were delivered, but they were nothing according to spec, and they missed deadlines. Both times I logged a dispute with PayPal, and both times I got my money refunded.

    The fact that nothing was delivered at all makes this case even easier.

    Thanks for throwing the whole community under the bus while making one of the dumbest comments ever written on these forums.

    Where you source your services from on the internet has no guarantees when it comes to the quality of service or reliability. What does guarantee quality of service and reliability is doing your due diligence before you sign somebody on.

    I've worked on 12 published game titles but I guess that makes me unreliable because I didn't put a script on the Asset Store.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2014
  33. BlueByLiquid

    BlueByLiquid

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    I've gotten screwed before on paypal and if it's digital good the other person only has to quote paypals policy on digital goods not being covered and you will not get your money back and your only recourse is CC fraud dispute (which will almost always work). I say it just to let people know they should not find comfort in paypals guarantees or coverage for digital goods. I literally had a respond to a dispute that said, "it doesn't matter if he didn't get his software code it isn't covered by the dispute process so it must be rejected" and paypal agreed with the seller.
     
  34. Aiursrage2k

    Aiursrage2k

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    Does he show a portfolio because we could have a blacklist or something where people enter it and searches for the bad eggs
     
  35. Dantas

    Dantas

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    If you look at his activity here you can see that he spends almost all day trying to find someone to scam on the commercial forums, most of the time looking for someone new in the forum.
     
  36. eskimojoe

    eskimojoe

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    His friends do nothing but looking for new-comers to scam:
    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/21...ase-developer-blames-Unity-for-failure/page10


    Why the collaboration is locked:
    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/234033-The-collaboration-forum


    That time we went after his friends, his friends are on 79-99 weeks of welfare and unemployment insurance. With the current unemployment extensions, that would last until August 2014. If Congress extends it, they could get, possibly, 208 weeks of welfare.


    The way how it works, they scam others. On a good year, he (Darqlord) scams 200 people, on average of $100 - $5,000. Average = $500. You can do the maths. That gives him $100,000 of tax-free money he don't have to declare. Since they are a group of scammers, they get around $500,000 a year, tax-free, no need to declare to IRS. In the mean time, they keep claiming they cannot find job, no one wants to hire him, there are no jobs where they are at...


    The funny part is the brain-washing. Every new-comer who wants to volunteer, gets hooked on giving free work to him (via aliases) or his friends. I've seen people giving 3 to 4 months of free work to his aliases or his friends. You can see him and his friends constantly recruiting, recruiting and recruiting... for the past 4 or so years.


    Steven Davis: http://www.youtube.com/user/prettymomie6/featured

    He's not in Louisiana. He's in Alabama... but he moves around, so he could be in Florida, Utah, Texas, Ohio, West Virginia...


    Give them a small arts, modelling and coding test and watch what happens...


    I'm not privy to state what UnityTech will do, I was satisfied with the answer and I hope they implement it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2014
  37. SmellyDogs

    SmellyDogs

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    Perhaps there should be a sticky with his name, aliases, and portfolio along with a warning?
     
  38. Teila

    Teila

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    Try the Postal Service, surprisingly. We were scammed online, not related to gaming though and a lot more money. The person scammed 50 other couples and ended up being convicted of wire fraud, even though it was online. This was about 15 years ago so maybe things have changed. She spent 4 years in jail. Someone from the postal service interviewed us.
     
  39. Goldrake

    Goldrake

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    Paypal refused to refund me because the service it's not covered by agreement. I don't understand how people manage to get the refund by paypal...
     
  40. eskimojoe

    eskimojoe

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    @Goldrake,

    Get orientated as to what portfolio is, get orientated as to what stick drawing is, what plagiarism is, what buying fake Facebook likes and fake followers is.



    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/227936-WIP-GameDev-Architect


    You can see where I write about problems that we have. The below screenshots show how these artists use other artist's artwork and don't bother to reply.


    $Safari 2.png


    $Safari.png


    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/209652-Lands-of-Ammox-Mobile-MMORPG-in-development/page2
     
  41. Tenebrous

    Tenebrous

    Volunteer Moderator Moderator

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    I think that everything that needed to be said has been said in this thread.
     
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