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Do you know from where or who the word "Hack" later "hacker" used in coding environment comes from?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by AlanMattano, Jun 22, 2018.

  1. AlanMattano

    AlanMattano

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    The word hack in hackweek where it comes from?
    https://blogs.unity3d.com/2018/06/22/hackweek-2018-the-unity-way/

    Did you know that the first Hacker was a woman for scientific purposes?

    We are not allowed to talk about politic here so I will resume it like this:

    Margherita Hack was a scientist Italian equivalent to Carl Sagan when Italy was not ready for that. We can't compare in magnitude the worldwide known Carl Sagan with Margharita. But for the Italians, she was a reference. Consider also that the national TV never show the series Cosmos. Cosmos was never shown up! She was an astrophysicist and scientific disseminator via TV, books later Youtube fighting astrology horoscopes she found the magazine L'Astronomia. Since the 1940s she uses to be around "Campo di Marte" Firenze (old astronomical observatory). If you consider that she was an atheist communist woman you can understand why she did not get much attention in the big media as a public figure and need for work outside Italy. She worked at many American and European observatories 50s. 1957, discover a double star when she was in Berkeley using the largest telescope in the world. The extraordinary thing was that, before that, we all know that the word Hack comes from the M.I.T. but very few people know the real story behind the scenes that I'm going to tell you:

    Where the word "hack" comes from; At the M.I.T. , when she was working on satellite data, the pc that was receiving the data was locked in a room by a vacation closed door. Her technological skills level let her access to that scientific data and continue the research releasing the public information to the other scientific coworkers. "In the MIT at launch time rumours of working on a computer for scientific reasons started as well as the word it was Hack..."(draft translation), Margherita Hack

    Unfortunately, I lost the video interview with Margherita when she was old and describes the episode. But if you find it on Youtube in the section where she describes the episode pass the link.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
  2. XCPU

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    Hack is a four letter word. :)
    Don't call a programmer a hacker, pretty much an insult, not fighting words, but they'll remember.
     
  3. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Really? I don't agree, I am comfortable with programmer, hacker, coder. Any actual programmer would be fine with it because it's illogical to show offence at ignorance.

    In any case, my code has mercifully little hacks, where hack means that it isn't an ideal fix or functionality had to be hacked in before release. That sort of thing.

    I can't comment on cracking, or general hacking (modifying existing code beyond it's purpose) and so on.
     
  4. LaneFox

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    From beating code into submission. Hacking at it until it does what you want.

    Uninformed people call me all kinds of dumb things, but basically because they're uninformed. Since I work with computers I must know how to fix their CD-ROM laser and routinely probe the dark-web kind of things.
     
  5. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
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  6. Marble

    Marble

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    I always presumed its origin was pretty similar to what is meant when someone accuses a writer of being a "hack" – i.e. mercenaries / amateurs who approach their work crudely, bluntly, or without finesse. Over time, however, it's been coopted like other slurs into a point of pride.
     
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  7. zombiegorilla

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    Same here. Hack actor, hack writer, etc..
     
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  8. Kiwasi

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    Citation? Google doesn't seem to agree with you. I can't find any sources that link Margherita Hack with MIT, or that link her name with computers. Instead I find hack linked to the English word hack, which means to cut to pieces. There is one source that links it to another English definition of hack, which is a person hired to do dull or routine tasks. Both of these explanations seem plausible.

    It may be this is simply one of those local cultural legends that spring up in your country to inflate your self importance. Just like my countrymen invented powered flight before the Wright brothers.
     
  9. RockoDyne

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    That's what my money's on. There are a lot of these supposed origins of hack, but most of them are pretty flimsy. One I've heard is from the model train community or something, where the usage is to mean a clever or elegant solution. Etymologically speaking, that's more in line with it's original meaning, since it's evolved to it's current meaning of a rush job or a band aid in more recent times.
     
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  10. AlanMattano

    AlanMattano

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    JEJE: I'm learning English but Cut to pieces or pirate do not have a direct relation ("story") with computers. Or a specific reason why that word was chosen in first place. Is a specific act far different from cracking as Hippo point out!

    Looking timing: in the 54 she was at Brera (Italian 2° biggest telescope). And computers or so were very rudimentary at that time. Later in the 60s she worked at many American and European observatories...with access to several satellites.

    The source is in the mIRC MIT channel chat. Hard to find.

    Now that the word hack has more interest and popularity, unfortunately, big 50s MIT scientist has passed away. Researchers have friends and scientific are an open and welcome community. I can't enter in the politic side but for short, she was fighting from outside as a scientific community woman haking Catholic Men Italian society. Journalism media was an opposition of her ideas. She was forced to go outside Firenze. For her, that was just a stupid one more anecdote "sciocchezza". Margherita does not care about and mention that much. But I remember a video interview (she was +~80) where she describes it. In other words; you need to understand Margherita Italian mind. That does not care that much for that. If Carl Sagan told you that as a short anecdote, of course, you will trust his words. He will not care about and he will continue describing what there is out there.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  11. zombiegorilla

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    Indeed. There a lot of words that have a simple meaning but are used in many contexts. Usually the shorter the word the more contextual uses. Hit, cut, run, see, fall, etc... hack seems to be that catagory. Hack is like cut, but less elegant/planned/directed. You can cut a tree down and you can hack a tree down. Result is about the same, execution varies. Same with computery stuff. You can engineer a solid/clean solution or you can hack something together that gets a result.

    While an interesting story, common usage of hack as an inelegant means well predates the 50s.
     
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  12. kdgalla

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    I remember reading Creative Computing back in the 80s. Back then, a "Hacker" was a power-user who could do impressive and innovative things with their computer. For example, they had "One-Liner" contests where people would try to come up with the most interesting program (In Applesoft Basic) that they could in a single line (i.e. the source code had to be less than 128 bytes). These programs were insanely optimized and this often involved discovering and leveraging exploits in the hardware and operating system. "Hacky" exploits are considered bad these days, but back then they were cool and people loved to show them off.
     
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  13. Kiwasi

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    Yup. And no offense, but this makes you distinctly unqualified to comment on the meaning of words in the English language. Hack means to cut, but it has connotations of inelegance. On cuts with a knife. One hacks with an axe. This leads to the term 'hack job' which is normally something done poorly. The modern usage of hack in computing certainly carries some of these connotations with it.

    Right. By everything you said she worked with observatories and satellites. Not computers. Her story and work seems quite interesting. But there is nothing that links her to MIT and computers. You've yet to provide a source that said she even visited MIT. Let alone a source for the story.

    If she actually was a significant figure in early computing, you'd think that someone would have mentioned it in her bio. I would expect to find some contribution she made to the field of computing.

    No. This is not a racist thing. Its not a gender thing. Carl Sagan was a physicist. If someone told me he'd made a significant contribution to the field of computing, I'd be skeptical. I'd google it. If the anecdote was as strange as someone accessing data from a computer behind locked doors when networking was barely a thing, then I'd be even more skeptical.
     
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  14. EternalAmbiguity

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    Well...we had minds like Turing and von Neumann. I'd be skeptical of being skeptical :p of a physicist's contributions to computer science. But I'd definitely be skeptical of any such claims with literally no sources to back them up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
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  15. Ryiah

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    Many of the people behind early computer technology were physicists. If anything would make me skeptical of the claim it would likely be everything else he was known for.

    Languages are constantly evolving. Words we use today often don't have the same meaning they had in the past. If I told you something was "terrific" you might interpret that as "awesome" but the original meaning was something that "causes terror".
     
  16. zombiegorilla

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    Neat!
     
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  17. Tzan

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    Yes Ryiah's comment was made in a tidy way.
     
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  18. EternalAmbiguity

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    The Old Testament calls a certain event "The Great and Terrible Day." The New Testament calls it "The Great and Notable Day." Kind of interesting.
     
  19. RockoDyne

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    Ironically, "awful" did the exact opposite. It was "full of awe," but then flipped into being terrible.
     
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  20. zombiegorilla

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    Contronyms are fun words that have contradictory meanings. Like fast and screen. Depending on context they mean the opposite.

    Hack is similar, you can hack something apart or hack something together.
     
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  21. AlanMattano

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    [Italian]Per gli Italiani ricercatory che posono interesari, non sono riuscito a trovare Il video su Youtube dove Margherita Hack chiede, descrive l'evento, dificile da trovare per me dall estero. Andate sulla fiducia che se si cerca con cura il video probabilmante si trova.

    Sorry @Kiwasi, for my cynicism. My handicap does really disqualify that story? I'm the messenger, not a lucubration. Is a simple sum of factors that trigger the causes. And here words are good enough for me. I can understand that one source (itself) is incompleteness. We need old sources able to confirm but I'm afraid they are dead. Is interesting how ideas move in the society. A society that is like a big brain evolving buy events. In this cases, without a second MIT source, the story can become only a myth/legend in a sector of society.

    About the meaning; privacy has an important roll in the M. Hack story. In Spanish, Italian, etc as you know is a new word, did not exist before and (media?) has a bad connotation. In English was evolving, has a specific split meaning maybe before the event. The hack meaning is ambivalence: there are two definitions of the word "hacker". Is like if we are there at the MIT at lunch talking about the event and the comments are: That scientific on vacation, was hiding the sat incoming data locking it in the pc behind a closed door or he was pretty ok with the good workaround solution? That ambivalence ambiguity is still around today in the actual meaning. Anyway, she understands pretty well what public tech progress means for her. Her suspicious short story perfectly fits with the dual meaning. She strongly with the actual first Wikipedia meaning. Far from the second one, speculative pirate;

    About the environment; the term was not used for example in the car industry...specific computer scientific tech culture environment, She was in the leading edge pushing for satellites. For her, she always claimed that the first personal computer (sold 40.000u) was introduced in the 1965 and not in the 75. Before the computers were very expensive (400.000 of today). She has worked in a hi-tech environment at numerous other American and European observatories. She mentions several different astronomical research out of Italy in some cases working only for 2 weeks. She mentions she was there at the MIT. She has also long been a member of the E.S.A working groups. (European Space Agency) and N.A.S.A. A culture that was around her and she was creating. Returning to Italy she creates new technology centres. But this is not a resume,

    M. Hack astrophysicist was inspiring and awesome. Wish the best for this good hackweek (for the second renaissance) full of advanced tech!
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  22. Ryiah

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    Since the term "personal computer" literally translates to "a computer designed for use by one person at a time" it's quite possible to label just about anything as a personal computer. We would need to define the characteristics expected before we could point towards any one system.
     
  23. Kiwasi

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    That made me laugh. What the hell are you trying to say here?

    I was specifically responding to your allegation that you see no connection between cutting into pieces and computers. The connection is pretty obvious to native English speakers. This wasn't an argument against your story.

    English is a bastard language. It steals words it likes from every language around it. It reuses words in bizarre fashions, often assigning the opposite meaning to a word as time passes. Figuring out exactly where a word came from is difficult.

    The general problem I have with your story is that the other stories for the origin of hack all make more sense. Hack is an old English word that's been around for centuries. It means to cut something to pieces inelegantly. It also means to put something together inelegantly. Those meanings can easily be applied to early computer work. Early computer programmers would literally have to put out wires from a computer and throw new ones in. Documents from MIT seem to support this conclusion, there is a memo requiring users to turn off the power before hacking to prevent blowing a fuse. Early computer games were often 'hacked together' from left over pieces of radar equipment. That's a story that makes sense.

    You are asking us to believe that an astrophysicist, who has no record of working at MIT or in computers, was a secret computer genius. So much so that early computer programmers started calling themselves hacks. And at the same time, they didn't ever credit her with any discoveries in computing. And she didn't publish a single paper on computing. Seems a bit contradictory to me.

    Couple that with the lack of sources to back up the story. I can't even link Margherita Hack with MIT. None of her biographies or obituaries mention the link between her name and computers. In fact the only place on the internet that links between her name and computer hacking is this thread.

    If you can find me a single source, I'll consider taking your claim seriously. And I mean an actual source. Random linking to unrelated Wikipedia articles does not help your case. Until then I have to call your story BS.
     
  24. Ryiah

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    Speaking of stories that make sense this whole thread reminded me of the story of the first computer bug. It wasn't the first time the term was used to refer to a malfunction in hardware as apparently it was being used back in the 1870s but it is a good explanation for why people continued using it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_bug#Etymology
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
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  25. zombiegorilla

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    ...and a second "Neat!" for @Ryiah. Learned two fun things in this thread so far... can you make it a hat-trick? ;)
     
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  26. Ryiah

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    We may not have a record of her working at MIT, but we definitely have records of her working elsewhere. We know she graduated from the University of Florence in 1945.

    We know she was a staff researcher by the early 1950s at the Astronomical Observatory of Arcetri.

    https://academic.oup.com/astrogeo/article/54/5/5.38/250153

    We know she worked for Brera Astronomical Observatory between 1954 and 1964. You can find mention of it in multiple locations including the website of the observatory itself.

    http://www.brera.inaf.it/?page=chisiamo;lingua=inglese

    We know she was the director of the Astronomical Observator of Trieste from 1964 to 1987. Additionally she was a professor of the University of Trieste from 1964 to 1998.

    https://www.britannica.com/biography/Margherita-Hack
     
  27. angrypenguin

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    I'm pretty sure that "PC" as it's commonly used today is a truncated form of "100% IBM-PC Compatible".

    Back in the days when there were commercial options other than Windows and Mac, the system requirements for software used to list the type of system something was made for, and (from memory) the most common one was "100% IBM-PC compatible system". I don't fully understand how things went from there. I suspect that it's a combination of the non-IBM compatible stuff falling off the market and/or becoming compatible so the specificity was simply no longer needed, and modern operating systems coming along and bridging the compatibility gaps with software (which is why "PC" is often incorrectly treated as being synonomous with "Windows"). Either way, when people say "PC" today I'm pretty sure it stems from when we had to quite specifically identify what type of computer a piece of software was made for.

    There is still Apple running alongside all of that, of course, but they always did their own thing and made sure they're known as "Mac" even though they're still also a "PC".
     
  28. Ryiah

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  29. angrypenguin

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    Assuming we can trust Wikipedia, this is correct but my guesses about how it became the standard term are a bit of a miss. It sounds like it computer-oriented media outlets were referring to "IBM PC" as just "PC" while competitors were very much still active.
     
  30. Kiwasi

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    Exactly. That's pretty much an unbroken record of her working career. So unless this lady was working in two places at once...

    Don't get me wrong. She is an amazing scientist. Reading her bios and obits has been fascinating. She made some pretty impressive discoveries in astrophysics. She was an activist for reason, atheism, science and human rights.

    Lets celebrate her for the things she actually did. Not for the odd coincidence of her name.
     
  31. sxa

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    I was curious about this, and an article I found suggests otherwise. 'Hack' writer is a shortened form of 'hackney', coming from the same origin as 'hackney cabs' ie taxis... so the original connotation was writers-for-hire. 'Hackneyed' as an adjective for poor or cliched writing still holds.

    https://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/a-short-history-of-hack
    http://www.word-detective.com/2015/10/hackneyed/
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
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  32. AlanMattano

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    Caro Kiwasi ,
    Yes, Honestamente, I claim that is a cumulative sum of causes. Not the origin of the word and meaning.
    I read that Fred Shapiro found that the malicious connotations were already present at MIT in 1963.
    Maby she was there in the 80s and I'm completely wrong in the data.
    Without the video source, we can do nothing. You need to make a strong research to claim that there is no document about Hack in MIT but also If somebody is visiting as a scientific friend or working for few days is been recorded in the paper? every person? In research side use to move a lot and work in several places, this depends on the project.

    Can you put the source of this? Are this person student from MIT? and put in the time?
    You mention Radar equipment? Like this story of radio sources for looking the stars? I found this but I do not understand this H154 56. She was a strong astronomer and looks like analyzing stars was her interest so radar instruments where her tools.


    I'm not asking to, believe me, I'm asking for sources. My memory is not good and I'm a bit dyslexic but I remember well her talking about (she just mention it): And she thinks that the word picks up there in that environment since that event. There is the possibility that reinforces or maybe was her imagination or the imagination of so many students. But she like to be a person that stays to the facts. So she mentions the fact and she did not care that much about the episode.
    Maby she is still asking...how knows


    I never said that it was a "secret computer genius". You claim that. Did she? I claim that she has a good spirit, looks like a great person to trust and if there was a problem she first tries to fix it.

    Was she more advanced "Desk-top user"? Ok, Sorry if you do not like the lates more modern IBM word Personal computer. And sorry if I expressed myself wrong.[the Olivetti Desk-top was a portable minicomputer from the 60s before the personal computer but you can't call it Personal computer because is an IBM brand]

    You mention computers? At least she had better email Desk-top skills than the top desk antimatter researcher Zichichi.
    [video where she claims that is way better to use the email]


    Maby she was busy doing her work. And looks like she has done a good job, Imagine if she was graduated as a computer scientist... maybe for her computer was just a tool like her bicycle ( she hack the bicycle wheels because of war...) On this planet, she preferred to protect the animals, not the synthetic brain (a better personal computer).

    Well, this means that at the moment I'm your only source. I mention at the beginning of the thread I remark that few people know. I also hardly search for years on the Internet and I found nothing about. Is long to look to all Margherita Hack videos. Please, need help!

    I do not think so. I do not think that If I pass you one source (the video of Margarita telling, in short, the story at the MIT) it will help you to take me seriously. Because if you are serious you know that math cannot be its own credibility. Maby you can take my words more seriously but you need a second MIT source that can prove the story. Not herself.

    The Documents from MIT that seem to support this conclusion how was? What was working on or for? What data? Was general or it describes one particular event?
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  33. Ryiah

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    Regardless of whether it's accurate if only a few people know then it's safe to assume she didn't have a meaningful impact on computer science because the people who are known to have had a meaningful impact are known by more than just a few people.

    It's simply impossible to take someone seriously when their response to providing the sole source that not only backs up their claim but refutes all the evidence amounts to "I don't think you will believe my source".

    I'd be able to understand if the info was widespread and you told people to go look it up on their own as I've been known to do that from time to time, but your evidence is completely contrary to everything available on her and you're asking us to believe you over the scientific community that would have recorded her accomplishments.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
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  34. AlanMattano

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    And to me, the first windsurf that was not invented by legendary Drake since a tiger windsurf logo is from late 1800 in my family.

    I'm trying to communicate the story because looks like the source are gone. Give time and probably the documentary can return. History became every day sharper.
     
  35. Ryiah

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    I'd be genuinely surprised if the concept of a board with a sail attached to it while the individual was standing didn't predate both your family and the person who is recorded as having invented it. All three of the key parts are definitely older than the 1880s.

    By the way Jim Drake is not the individual recorded as having invented it. It was Newman Darby in 1948.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windsurfing#History
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  36. Murgilod

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    You have no idea what you're talking about and you're trying desperately to cover your own ass. Stop it. You're embarrassing yourself.
     
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  37. AlanMattano

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    This is in a museum of the Hotel. (The hotel was destroyed). I look it for years and later I notice the recovery rope. Only a windsurf know how useful is the rope! Probably there was others windsurfer before this Tiger.

    I'm still looking for the video source
     
  38. AlanMattano

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    About computer skills or interest: She mentions an electronic thesis here at 5:00. Finally, she gives it up and chooses astronomy.
     
  39. Ryiah

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    Just keep in mind that "electronic" doesn't have to mean "computer". Electrical engineering existed before computers with the oldest degree being from the late 1800s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_engineering#History

    Furthermore the field was originally known as "radio engineering" and was restricted to communication and radar.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_engineering#Electronics

    Computer science degrees didn't become available until 1953 at Cambridge University.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_science#History

    There is a very good possibility that the reason she was interested in electrical engineering was the existence of radio telescopes. Radio telescopes go back as far as the early 1930s and was starting to gain momentum in the 1940s.

    It would have been a very exciting field for someone who was interested in astronomy.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_telescope#Early_radio_telescopes
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  40. Kiwasi

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    You don't appear to have listened to a word I said. I'm out. Good luck with life and all that.
     
  41. AlanMattano

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    At the 40s were studying quantum mechanics and
    electronics that was the new emergent science she prefers to make a thesis in electronic
    And when the Director asks her for electrostatic thesis instead of a new electronic thesis. She did not like it because electrostatic was old full of dust from the 1800s, that was far over and she wanted something more exciting. It was the yr around 1944~46
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  42. Ryiah

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    Science degrees generally require several years of study and if she switched degrees she may very well have spent more time than most students in college. I've edited my post by the way with mention of radio telescopes. They would have been an exciting topic for the 1940s.

    Below is a link mentioning some of the achievements made with radio astronomy in the 1940s.

    http://www.spaceacademy.net.au/museum/RA50.htm
     
  43. Ryiah

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    Searching for articles about Margherita Hack with regards to radio astronomy and vice versa has only further convinced me that it would have been the real reason she would have considered a degree in electrical engineering.

    For the most part the only articles I'm able to find about her are obituaries. For the sheer amount of people that mentioned her death you'd think there would be more info on her life but that doesn't appear to be the case.

    Both of these obituaries (and others like them) mention she contributed to radio astronomy and spectroscopy.

    https://www.behance.net/gallery/1121761/Margherita-Hack-Astrophysicist
    http://the-view-from-rome.blogautore.repubblica.it/2013/06/29/goodbye-margherita-hack/

    Below is an article mentioning that her work at Trieste Observatory was focused on radio astronomy.

    https://blogs.transparent.com/italian/la-signora-delle-stelle/

    Any evidence pointing her towards computer science is likely just a coincidence as the field just happened to be emerging at the time period. Additionally while modern radio astronomy requires the use of computers my research into the local radio astronomy organization shows that computers weren't involved until the 1960s.

    https://public.nrao.edu/gallery/nraos-early-computers/
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
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  44. AlanMattano

    AlanMattano

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    Ho, you find a picture of her at the computer!
    Impressive you are the best! I was searching in Italian.
    Yes is difficult to find a relation of her with the computer. I search for years a picture of her close the computer. I'm looking that old youtube video of her is deleted. Hope that is still there. I remember she mentions the episode more like at the end of the video. It was one of the first interviews on Youtube.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  45. DominoM

    DominoM

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    My understanding is that 'hacking' as a term came about from modifying electronic circuits, where you literally cut tracks on the circuit board and used short wire 'patches' to change the layout.
     
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  46. AlanMattano

    AlanMattano

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    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  47. sxa

    sxa

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    I think evidence of a significant contribution to hardware/software design or creation would be required before I'd accept that someone's very name became a slang/idiomatic term synonymous with hardware/software design or creation.
    Its a very exceptional case for a proper name to directly gain traction as a noun, and when it does, the origin is usually very clear indeed (cf bobbies/peelers for UK policeman, after Sir Robert Peel).

    The common route for a proper name eventually becoming a noun would be via a company or brand name that became generic as per Thomas Crapper.
     
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  48. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    I saw that document mentioned too but it's merely a catalogue of papers and correspondences of Sir Martin Ryle. You would need to read the actual papers and correspondences that the document refers to if you wanted to know how they involve her.

    Just don't be too surprised when you discover the "contribution" listed isn't what you thought it was. The catalogue has the folder containing it listed as nominations and eligibility with the example being the nomination of Ryle as President of the Commission. For the time period listed it's most likely just mentioning her position at one of the observatories.
     
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  49. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    There seems to be a lot of speculation-based argumentation in here. It's one thing to say "there's not enough evidence to support this point of view", but a lack of evidence is not necessarily evidence against a thing.

    ...?!? Without resorting to Google, think of as many female early contributors to video gaming as you can. Then, consider that we're talking about a period ~50 years earlier than that, where the culture around recognising contributions from women was far worse than it is now.

    In the particular case of female inventors, Hedy Lamarr's work work now seems to be commonly used as an example of ladies not getting the recognition that they deserved. Considering what it took for her to get the recognition she has today...
    • being a famous, well known actress in here time, and
    • managing to get a patent (not cheap!) on the technology she co-invented, and
    • decades later, wireless communications technology taking off...
    ... I don't at all think it's fair to assume that someone, especially a woman over half a century ago, couldn't have made a significant contribution based solely on not having already been more widely recognised for it.

    Also, while Lamarr is now said to have made contributions to computer science, the relevant work was specifically in radio communications. And I'm pretty sure she was self taught.



    To be clear, I'm not arguing one way or the other as to what Hack did or didn't do. I'm just saying that while I haven't seen any clear evidence that alone doesn't rule out the possibility. And we should all be smart enough to understand the difference between a lack of evidence supporting a point and evidence to the contrary of that point.
     
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  50. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    That's a lot of words to say that you're ignoring the burden of proof issues at play here.
     
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