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Feedback Do better.

Discussion in 'Unity 6 Beta' started by JGameMaker92, Mar 17, 2024.

  1. JGameMaker92

    JGameMaker92

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    Well I updated to Unity 6 beta. In typical Unity fashion, nothing works anymore. Assets from the asset store are displaying confusing errors, several strange UI changes, builds are taking longer. There was a little bit of a performance improvement running the editor on an older computer but I could have been imagining it. I think we’re still waiting for a more stable editor. No incredible new features. If you’re gonna try it out, do it with an empty project and don’t expect anything to work right.
     
    retired_unity_saga likes this.
  2. MiTschMR

    MiTschMR

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    What's the point you are trying to make? Quit if you don't like it...
     
    retired_unity_saga likes this.
  3. JGameMaker92

    JGameMaker92

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    People like you aren’t very helpful. You should probably quit hounding these forums for people to lash out at.
     
    gooby429 and retired_unity_saga like this.
  4. Tigrian

    Tigrian

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    Well, that is the point : this is a beta for a breaking changes version. You should not expect assets from asset store to work with it. The UI changes are there because this is a beta for a new version, and you are welcome to post about why they are confusing, so they don't get in this state into the main release. This is the point of a beta : making deep changes that might get the editor experience worse and get the right feedback in time before the release.
     
  5. JGameMaker92

    JGameMaker92

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    Obviously it’s a beta but obviously it’s not that much better. My 3D models are still turning up pink, I would love it if they stopped doing that. We could really use an improved rendering system and less reliance on third party paid assets for simple core functionality features in our game engine. I’m tired of every step of the design process being trapped behind a paywall. Really more needs to be provided out of the box and we need less annoyances in the design process. Image 3-17-24 at 11.15 AM.jpeg
     
  6. JGameMaker92

    JGameMaker92

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    Seriously, the Unity 6 Beta update BROKE the GLTF Utility importer. None of my .GLB files are importing right. Also, the fact that you can’t even preview a 3D model right is sad to me. Preview the model how it’s supposed to look NOT with some random color over it.
    Image 3-17-24 at 11.37 PM.jpeg
     
  7. Lurking-Ninja

    Lurking-Ninja

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    If you use the beta in production, then just don't. If you're just playing around, then take it easier. Beta isn't supposed to be perfect. Submit a bug report as they asked you to do or just stop using it. If it stays this way for release, we will whine about it together.
     
  8. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Seeing how screwed up the project becomes is half the fun of a beta.
     
  9. lord_ungrateful

    lord_ungrateful

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  10. Rastapastor

    Rastapastor

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    If they change SRP that it breaks the sahders and modles, pretty much it will be teh same when it releases as LTS :p. Downloading beta gives u a heads up what u will have to fix when u decide to upgrade to U6 :p
     
    soleron likes this.
  11. impheris

    impheris

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    this is exactly what is happening here XD
    omg -.-" this thread should be closed
     
  12. LaneFox

    LaneFox

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    Have you considered Scratch instead?
     
    POOKSHANK and Pixelith like this.
  13. Peter77

    Peter77

    QA Jesus

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    One of the ideas of alpha/beta cycles is to allow testing before release to ensure it works with your project. Depending on the complexity of the project, there is a high likelihood that something may be broken.

    In such cases, you should submit a bug report to allow Unity to address those issues.

    The assumption that alpha/beta versions can be used for production is flawed. Imagine sending an alpha version of your game to testers - do you expect them to have a seamless experience without missing features, glitches and crashes? Most likely not, and you probably mention that somewhere in your alpha/beta terms.

    Do you expect those testers to provide feedback in a constructive manner? Most likely yes because otherwise, it's a waste of time for both parties.

    There is obviously a spectrum of broken functionality and sometimes it's questionable why some of these issues slip through Unity's QA process. But considering how complex all of this is, I'm pretty impressed that Unity doesn't completely cause my project to fall apart with each new release, honestly.
     
    spiney199 and Ryiah like this.
  14. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    I’m also impressed that this happens to you, because in my experience every release breaks my project because of regressions and performance regressions that I report that are then closed as by design or won’t fix a year later and I’m left scrambling to rearchitect and find workarounds to make things work again.
     
    PanthenEye, Ryiah, specialx and 3 others like this.
  15. soleron

    soleron

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    Why are people still complaining about this basic thing that will always happen when your project is misconfigured??? Pink is the way the Editor tells you your materials do not match the selected Rendering pipeline setup. Chances are there is something you did wrong. There is no paywall involved...



    Why are you risking using such outdated I/O format?
    Why not use FBX? It's the industry standard for a reason.
     
  16. impheris

    impheris

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    that's bad, but it never happens to me, in fact some weeks ago i helped a client/friend to update a project from 2019 to 2022 and it was smooth, some minor bugs but in 2 days (like 3 maybe 4 hs a day) it was working good, even the old code was 95% fine with it, same performance too

    it's weird, but i don't thing is outdated...

    They actually think that pink color is a bug exclusively in Unity XD i've been seen that pink color way before unity :p
     
    Gasimo likes this.
  17. Crazy34

    Crazy34

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    We need to focus on more important issues than pink balls. Like the fact that Unity 6 still has the perennial problem of DX12 killing performance for a mid-advanced game. DX12 is terrible for a game that was developed and optimized using Unity's built-in features down to the finest detail and everything is beautiful in Unity sample scenes. And if you want to turn on RTX, I don't think you should.

    I stopped writing about all the shortcomings and bugs for a while. Nothing much changes anyway.

    So at the end of the day, yes, we expect much better.
     
  18. POOKSHANK

    POOKSHANK

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    people have been making games with unity for years, and there's nothing wrong with the features that come with earlier versions. i'd like to know what made you feel it was necessary to upgrade. chances are if the only thing that would make your game run well is rendergraph etc, there's a bigger issue to deal with first.

    i use 2019.4.3f1, and it does all the things you would expect from unity. chances are, i'll never upgrade as so many of the advised methodologies simply don't work anymore in new versions.

    don't fix it if it ain't broke!
     
  19. soleron

    soleron

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    What we think is not relevant.
    Few care about this format except a few companies that for PR purposes support open source initiatives and the occasional political enthusiast. Still better than .3ds though. I got to give it that.

    The 'format of the day' is USD although its trend is waning too. Many are wasting their time and resources focusing on USD as if it is some kind of panacea but it is yet another silly golden goose chase.

    On the other hand, FBX is fully supported and has the best compatibility, it does the job very nicely and is super easy to handle. (Although some non standard software like C4D and Blender offer a mediocre impllementation of FBX... that is not an FBX problem.)

    Yeah it is really stupid and annoying to see it mentioned as if it is an engine bug again and again.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2024
  20. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    Outdated? glTF was introduced in 2015 and FBX around 2005. Which one is the outdated one?
     
    Ruslank100, POOKSHANK and icauroboros like this.
  21. icauroboros

    icauroboros

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    In current state of Unity fbx importer better, because its written when this company actually was able create decent product.
    And gltf actually much more easier than fbx on implementing and extending side. It is basically fancy json schema, with a clear specification and open source license.
    On the other hand fbx not open source or do not have any specification, it expect to be implemented from its sdk that have custom license which blender and other open source programs cant do easily.
    So yeah, if gltf importer sucks its implementer fault, but if fbx sucks its fbx (and maybe implementer) fault.
     
  22. soleron

    soleron

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    ... really? that was the best you could come up with?

    FBX is updated every year with new features and optimizations.

    In all these years glTF has been updated 4 times. Four.
     
  23. soleron

    soleron

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    uhm.. no. if FBX is implemented like crap it it the implenters fault.

    i.e. Blender was stubbornly NOT implementing a new version for ages.
    When it did, it was when Blender actually became relevant but there are still issues with the implementation.

    C4D. the same. FBX had full instancing and proper material export and even subdivision levels etc. All they exported was model and UV. Not even vertex channels etc. They were 5 versions behind at some point, even more.

    Not open source does not mean anything.
    In fact, glTF had been abandoned for years. In it history it has been updated 4 times.

    FBX gets updates every year.

    Also, imagine the industry standard file exchange format not having any specification :D Really?

    Also there is no licensing problem at all. The only one who claimed that, was the Blender founder who also claimed that whoever uses FBX, Autodesk owns their artwork which is utter bullshit. He was a blinded political fanatic. Thankfully other people really run the show these days and Blender has become a much better tool.

    Even so, they still do not support all the features FBX does. Some of which are important for the successful interchange of data between applications and others that are super convenient.

    https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/addons/import_export/scene_fbx.html

    Not to mention that Blender is not even transparent to its users about which version of FBX they use. 7.3 or newer... (OpenSource Transparency Level Null.) FBX may be closed source but it is a Free tool. You can use the latest version without paying a dime.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2024
  24. icauroboros

    icauroboros

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    What do you mean by that?

    >>Also, imagine the industry standard file exchange format not having any specification :D Really?
    we don't need the imagine thanks to autodesk, if you find it, you could share with us too. Then we can notify the programmers that reverse engineer fbx sdk to create a importer/exporter( like blender and assimp developers), so they wont waste their time anymore.

    >>He was a blinded political fanatic.
    Democratizing 3d modelling, and creating a free competitor to a thousand dollar/per year software? yeah such a lunatic.

    Fbx license states that user need the agree the autodesk license, and takes 50mb of binary size. So that's why open source projects stay away from it.

    Not the mention extensibility.
     
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  25. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    FBX had its latest minor update sometime in 2022 (and they don't really provide optimisations, generally they try to plug security issues: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...d-viewer-b7483e83-422c-4d65-b94d-853eb65cb134) and glTF had its last update in October 2021, are you okay?
     
  26. bugfinders

    bugfinders

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    One thing to note, they were changing from the default still being the built in renderpipeline to urp i think.

    that would explain the sea of pink
     
  27. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    Also, after Collada having a bazillion specifications that no one could implement fully and correctly and it failing completely to compete with FBX at the time, (even though there were plenty of software trying to champion collada over FBX, Modo comes to mind), maybe glTF's specification changing less often is a good thing?

    Also, all open source FBX importers / exporters are bad because they are reverse engineered, because the format specification is not public and you have to use Autodesk's SDK, which you may not wish to, for one reason or another.
     
    icauroboros likes this.
  28. icauroboros

    icauroboros

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    Agreed, there is a big difference between "a specification" and a software. Its not trivial to update a specification because it's basically enforce rules on all implementations. Gltf does not need to change to gain new features thank to being open-source and extendible. Which already many users do, there is a lot of extensions available.
     
    AcidArrow likes this.
  29. soleron

    soleron

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    Autodesk SDK is available to all freely.
    What open source I/O implementations do is irrelevant to what FBX is and what it can do. "One reason or another" is exactly the politically made up "reasons" Blender was trash for over 20 years.

    He didn't do any such thing. Blender is around since the 90s.
    Had the new team not taken over, integrating FBX decently and improving several aspects nobody would be talking about Blender today. And mind you, they did this under his nose because he kept declining their improvements.

    So no. He did no democratize anything.
    In fact, he was the one keeping Blender behind and barely alive like a zombie, being irrelevant for more than 20 years.

    btw. There are super cheap versions of 3dsmax and Maya for indies.

    There are even volume enterprise version licenses that give you the latest version of 3dsmax/Maya for up to 3 years for the price of one year of Indie without the budget terms.

    But this is becoming too off topic.
    If anyone wants to discuss more about this I suggest we start a private discussion.
     
  30. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    You can't release an open source piece of software with proprietary stuff in it.
     
  31. icauroboros

    icauroboros

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    Lets not waste our time, he cant hear us from the hill of the Dunning-Kruger
     
    POOKSHANK likes this.
  32. UniqueCode

    UniqueCode

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    Just for fun, everything Adobe is cursed (pdf comes to mind) and I try to keep my distance. The more power you give to a single company the worse everybody is off.
    Unity breaking something as basic as a model importer is a good eye rolling moment and should not happen. Trivial to unit test. But beta is beta.
     
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  33. developer3244

    developer3244

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    Well i found this by some random reason...

    Ok, if blender isnt the best option for 3D modeling, what could be? (3Ds max, maya... just consider i want free stuff or some free version, even if i cant get some money in it) also, at least blender is free and now (at least now in 4.0) it seems to be a good tool that can suit the needs of someone that need complex stuff or just an indie like me

    Formula is simple: pink stuff usually represent rendering error, so check materials, shaders or even your rendedring pipeline (e.g., URP or HDRP), because something is rendering bad here.

    Perhaps unity is struggling with materials? at least you can see the models, so perhaps you could apply your own materials.

    Pointing .glb versus .fbx, i will not put hands on fire to say who is better, but perhaps the winner would be FBX as i see it usually as the standard file for 3D models (i never saw a .glb file before lol).

    But if the point of U6 beta is feedback, just saying "nah thats bad let me see something else" will not help unity... but i also agree in part, if you decided to test it but saw that isnt reasonable to still with it and need a stable editor, downgrade a little, betas are known for crash stuff.

    More one in my team of people that likes to see things crash for fun lol :)

    I agree, i use 2020.3 even in todays day, but an unity pro may need a more complete editor with more features that adress their high complexity needs, thats why is reasonamble to upgrade sometimes (except when your computer is a snail that crashes with more powerfull features... like mine)

    But before screaming in an unity dev head, check if the problems are in your side, and if is unity issue, there is a thing even unity team say for you to do: report a bug. Also, keep in mind that beta is a testing version focused on getting feedback (that also works for games and software, you should pay attention to it), so if you findd errors or have suggestions, report a bug, unity want feedback, so you can help the entire community of unity developers and users with unity 6 being better than never and make unity still number 1 engine (well i never tried unreal before at least)
     
    POOKSHANK likes this.
  34. bugfinders

    bugfinders

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    the only problem with the bug system is its like pushing water up hill, even if you sent them an all but empty project with 1 script and 2 things in scene, they seem to mess with it and then whine it doesnt do what you said, or, if it does, someone later basically will say but this is the new and improved so suck up and you can sit down and work round what you've found because we arent going to. Its draining and a long long process, and most people, even hobbyists dont wanna sit doing nothing with a project waiting the random months it takes for a decision for unity to not fix.
     
  35. LaneFox

    LaneFox

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    We use glTF at scale on engineering models for entire stadiums and it out performs FBX/asset bundles like 10:1.

    It doesn't have everything FBX has but it's pretty amazing.
     
  36. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    The best one is the one that suits you best.

    Blender is pretty good.
     
  37. developer3244

    developer3244

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    Well in this case i will stick with Blender for a while.

    I didnt understood, are you suggesting that isnt a viable and good option to report a bug? (i hope not, and if yes, what you suggest?)
     
  38. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    Yes, reporting bugs typically doesn't do anything useful for you.

    The way to do something about it is to stay away from Unity and its products.
     
  39. developer3244

    developer3244

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    So the solution for fix an unity error is to say bye till some unity op miss you and fix it? (well it dont seems reasonable...)
     
  40. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    The solution is to accept that it most probably won't get fixed, what you do after that is up to you, I suggested one possibility.
     
    bugfinders likes this.
  41. bugfinders

    bugfinders

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    Im setting expectations.. I in mostly still believe in reporting bugs, if no one reports they will never necessarily know to fix, but also have zero faith that they will be actually fixed.

    A current bug i have.
    Senario

    underground maze with a bunch of random lights but mostly dark as a black cat in a black cellar.. (player is supposed to pick up a candle and walk around, so you get a small radius of light all the time) but you can be a nut and go without.. or at least try.. runs as web build.

    problem

    works great with built in render pipeline.. absolutely great.
    due to wanting to move with improvements, trying to go under urp
    other than having to adjust all the light values because its light going from led bulbs to old bulbs where you now buy a 9w bulb and its equivalent to a 100w bulb.. i have to up all the values
    then, to the core issues, light leaks, i mean pours in.. its like being in a football stadium with all the lights on, yet you should be standing where zero lights are visible, multiple walls are between you and lights..

    So far - the unity answer? you have more than 16 lights in the scene.. (well yes, its under ground pitch black, its a decent size maze, yes, there are) but the culling is not culling the lights, even though settings suggest they should.. so, areas where you shouldnt see them.. the lights remain, the walls go with culling, so now, even though all the corridors and rooms are sealed rooms with generally at most 2 exits (like a corridor) .. light pours in from every side.. So now apparently i have to do a lot of work im guessing going to involve a ton of invisible objects and if player can see objects light should be on, else turn it off.. baking/realtime doesnt seem to matter.

    to get this far..

    months..

    in the mean time.. what do I do, ignore the fact my game is like a sneeze in a paint factory and brighter than daylight and so negating all the point... or, stay at built in, and every time anything comes in rework it?


    or how about the netgameobject dedicated server package that allows you to select stuff to be host/client/both.. that if you set the build to host, the ide to client, and hit play.. it runs it as host..

    these all seem reasonably fundemental, but, apparently the lights are for me to fix.. it feels much like hey, urp our new and improved, actually worse for this, but hey suck up and write your own work arounds..

    so.. forgive me if im not painting a joyful picture, but its not the first, it wont be the last and its not just me. They do fix bugs, some teams are way more helpful and friendly than others..
     
  42. developer3244

    developer3244

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    Nevermind. We dont have power in the unity engine code, so lets just hope some unity dev will fix some error, or try your own editor, package or something for fix it by your own :(

    Well is amazing to get unity specific errors or something that simply should work not working XD i know the pain...

    But in part i still belive unity will need to hear the voice of someone, perhaps an unity mod will see it and check why unity users dont belive in bug report, as if unity would stick in a plan for editor, why they would release a beta? they would skip in and release something.
     
  43. bugfinders

    bugfinders

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    Didnt they recently boast less bugs are being logged...

    I dont think they are considering we got fed up and gave up
     
  44. developer3244

    developer3244

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    initial point - U6 is bad and crashes my project
    later - my stuff is pink
    then - is .glb files better than .fbx?
    now - how to make unity devs fix bugs?
     
  45. developer3244

    developer3244

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    Well dont give up you need an engine for make good games for me to play lol... well if this is unity real intention, they are self-destructing. Unreal is just waiting unity fall a little for become number 1, and is considered number 2, and i know they dont want to be passed by other engines. Doing so will cause unity users try other solutions, so unity need to hear the voice of others
     
  46. bugfinders

    bugfinders

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    I get that, but Im a nobody, I dont make unity a lot of money (although I swear Id love to know the total i spent on the asset store todate) but i dont make money from my games, i never expected to, i dont set them up to, so unity has no interest in whether im happy or not.
     
  47. developer3244

    developer3244

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    I also never spent money in unity, so starters like me are "nobody"? dont forget an engine need to get the maximum users number, including give attention to starters that dont give unity a dollar, or they would use the fact they are searching stuff and search other engine
     
  48. bugfinders

    bugfinders

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    I dont forget, but much like when they got a bunch of unity users together over the price changes, you dont think people like us were invited do you? no.. of course not.. Especially as you and i could have been prime targets, as if we put ads in our game to maybe fund a few asset purchases, we were the ones who could end up paying more than we earnt.. (under the original proposal) .. no, people invited were influencers who get free unity pro packages, and big boys..
     
  49. Crazy34

    Crazy34

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    As long as Unity's love for baking and old-tech sampling systems that Unity loves so much doesn't end, it will continue to bleed. We don't want to help fix tons of new engine bugs for some low-level plugins while we wait for some really high-level and sensible software technologies. At least as someone who has been using Unity for about 10 years, I'm not going to deal with this anymore.
     
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  50. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Game engines have been around for decades with the biggest becoming big long before hobbyists and low budget indies starting playing around with them. Unity and Unreal could lose everyone in this camp and they wouldn't lose much of anything for it if at all. It's why the engine is in the state it is. They don't care about us.
     
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