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DAZ Genesis Can Be Used In Unity Games

Discussion in 'External Tools' started by dlhilemanjr, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. dlhilemanjr

    dlhilemanjr

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    Hello everyone,

    I have some exciting news for anyone who is interested in using DAZ characters in their games. Typically, their characters have way too many polygons to use them in video games not to mention too many draw calls. I figured out a way to reduce the Genesis character down to 4k vertices and use it in Unity games.

    Below is what I did.
    First, I morph the character and make any adjustments that I want. I get the character looking the way I want him or her to look before proceeding Witt he following steps.

    1. I create a Texture Atlas using the Texture Atlas in Daz Pro 4.5 which is currently free.
    2. Next, to reduce draw calls, I use the Polygon Editor to reduce the material groups down to 3. I exclude the Tar and Eyelash groups from the new group I create called Skin because they use different opacities then the skin groups.
    3. Next I decimate the character down to 4k. Here is the trick though, I decimate in increments. First I go down by 10 - 15% and save the LOD. Then I click prepare to decimate on that LOD and do it again. I keep doing that until the character is down around 4k vertices. In the decimator it shows double the number of poly's because it triangulated those poly's before decimating, so I actually get it down to around 8k poly's which is 8k tri's or 4k quads.

    Now you will notice two things. It will appear that the UV seams split because there will be white lines where the seams are. To fix that, switch the UV map on the skin group from Texture Atlas UV to V4 UV. The next thing you will notice is the character's face looks distorted. Simply export the character out as .fbx, the. Reopen DAZ and reimport that .fbx file. It will look great and if you look in the scene info you will see there is only around 4k vertices. Now after doing these steps, Genesis will lose some of the features such as morphing so it is import to do all of that first. Also, if you use clothes, make sure you turn the eyeball off on things such as the legs on genesis in the scene panel because it is not needed. Also, the clothes can be decimated down pretty low with very little loss of detail. Once again, add all your clothes before decimating and reducing the Polygon Groups.

    The new Genesis character can still be animated using the timeline or AniMate becaus the rig is maintained throughout the process.

    I hope this information helps. I tested this theory on an iPhone 4 by monitoring the fps in XCode's internal profiler and with a total of 70k vertices and 20 draw calls I was running at about 40fps.

    Also in Unity, when you import the model make sure to set mesh compression to high and click on optimize mesh.

    This same process can be used on other objects such as cars, weapons etc. DAZ also allows you to import .bvh files for animation.

    As I discover new techniques I will share them with everyone.

    Don Hileman
    New Visions Studios
     
  2. Sir-Tiddlesworth

    Sir-Tiddlesworth

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    I thought it was against the Daz Studio licence agreement to use the created models in a game.
    I may be wrong, but that was the case last time I checked.
     
  3. OmniverseProduct

    OmniverseProduct

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    You have to buy a separate 500 USD+ license to use them in a game.
     
  4. ZeroByteDNA

    ZeroByteDNA

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    They sell a GDK for $150: http://www.daz3d.com/shop/game-developer-kit-for-daz-studio/
    Which is kind of funny when you consider the three things it includes:

    Decimator $100 - http://www.daz3d.com/shop/decimator-for-daz-studio/
    Texture Atlas $0 - http://www.daz3d.com/shop/texture-atlas-for-daz-studio/
    FBX Plug-In $0 - http://www.daz3d.com/shop/fbx-plug-in-for-daz-studio/

    But then you read through the Licensing and Legal: https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/forums/133380-licensing-and-legal

    And well, S*** be confusing.

    But then this: http://www.daz3d.com/shop/license-agreement :in line with their GDK (or individual parts as they're cheaper currently) would suggest that you can.

    I saw nothing about a $500 license to use them in a game...

    ...but then again, I've never really had the $100 for Decimator so I've never really thought about using Daz 3D for anything other than art.
     
  5. dlhilemanjr

    dlhilemanjr

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    Yes you have to purchase a game license to use their models in games. The game license is $500. It use to be $500 per game but they changed it to a one time $500 licensing fee which includes all games made using DAZ assets. For me it made sense to get the license because I am a one person team. My options were to either spend several months modeling every aspect of the game by hand, buy models, pay someone to create the models, or give a share of what I make on the game to a modeler. I decided the $500 license was a better option because there are a lot of assets that I could use as is or tweak some to make them unique. The other reason I liked DAZ is becoming animation is really easy in DAZ plus I liked the direct bridge to Photoshop.

    The documents can be a little confusing which is why I contacted them directly to get clarification. I looked at the licensing fee as an investment in my indie game studio. I looked at it this way, if it helps me actually get my game done rather then dreaming about it getting done, it was worth the investment. I come from a business background and know it is nearly impossible to start a successful business without incurring some costs. This was one of those costs that I could see a return on my investment with.

    My strengths are in programming and not modeling, so for me, DAZ helps with at least creating base meshes that I can work with. It is not for everyone, but is good for people that need help on the modeling side. Since their software is free, I didn't feel so bad spending money on the license. If the software would have been a few hundred dollars, then that may have changed things.
     
    tapticc likes this.
  6. ZeroByteDNA

    ZeroByteDNA

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  7. dlhilemanjr

    dlhilemanjr

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    Also, I didn't buy the GDK for the same reason listed above. I just purchased Decimator for $99. At first I wasn't sure what I thought about the Decimator but after playing with it some, I figured out techniques that really make it a valuable tool. It is like anything else out there, you have to play with it some to figure out the best techniques for using it.

    The new DAZ 4.5 Pro comes with the .fbx import export and Texture Atlas. The new version now allows you to import .fbx files as long as they were created in DAZ originally. I don't know if it works with other .fbx files.
     
  8. dlhilemanjr

    dlhilemanjr

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    Yes ZeroByteDNA, that is true. If I can make over 100k developing games, and the DAZ software helps me do that, I'll happily she'll out $2500. Lol

    $500 is still a lot of money, but I decided if it helps make my game an actual game and not like a lot of projects out there that never gets completed, it was worth investing in it, at least for me.
     
  9. dlhilemanjr

    dlhilemanjr

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    Also, the DAZ indie license covers using DAZ Original content in games. Meaning, models made by DAZ. The DAZ store is like the Unity store where there are a lot of artists selling their work. The EULA can be a little confusing which is why I spent a few days talking to DAZ directly so I understood it completely.

    If you are using the models for 2D work such as cut scenes or posters, then the Indie Game license is not required. You need it only if you plan on actually using the 3D model meshes in a game.

    My suggestion to anyone who is considering DAZ is download the free software and play with it. You don't need the Decimator or license unless you want to use the models in a game. That was the one thing that I liked. I could play with it and see if it could be useful to me before buying anything. My original post was just to describe a technique I discovered that makes the models useable in games. The Genesis character is pretty awesome with what it can do. For me, it is a major time saver. Their is also a bridge in DAZ to their free Hexagon modeling program which allows tweaking the model the way I want, and then I can send it back to DAZ with a click of a button. As long as you do not add or remove vertices in Hexagon, it will retain its rigging, UV maps and textures. There are enough initial vertices in Genesis to manipulate it in Hexagon to just about anything without adding or removing vertices. Always make all of those changes before Decimating though. There is also a technique online to create custom morphs for Genesis in Hexagon. I saw an awesome video on YouTube where someone created a werewolf morph and using DAZ's animation tools, made a person change into a werewolf. That video really intrigued me which is why I started looking more into DAZ as a solution for my studio.
     
  10. trajan

    trajan

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    Hmm,

    "...To fix that, switch the UV map on the skin group from Texture Atlas UV to V4 UV..."

    This didn't work for me... how did you accomplish this actually?
     
  11. dlhilemanjr

    dlhilemanjr

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    I had just switched the UV Map to the V4 character. This was working on the Genesis character, I'm not sure if it works on the other characters. Also, try switching the mesh resolution from the Decimate to Base and then back again.

    Some things to check is:
    Make sure you create a texture atlas from the base mesh. Also make sure SubDivision is set to 0.

    Before Decimating, I combined the material groups into one single skin group. Everything g was added except the Eyelash surface and Tear Surface. Once they are all combined into one group, make sure you delete the empty groups. I noticed if they are still there, they sometimes cause issues even though they are empty. That also includes deleting the group called Default. If you haven't done that, that may be why it isn't working. I don't remember exactly what issues I was experiencing before deleting those groups, but there was definitely issues.

    I hope this helps. Once I have some available time, I will try to create a video demonstrating what I did.
     
  12. wizardious

    wizardious

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    Hey dlhilemanjr

    I had a couple questions about reducing materials. You are using the Polygon Group Editor? If so, do I select face groups,surfaces, or regions?
    And also how do I delete unused material groups?
    Thanks
     
  13. runningbird

    runningbird

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    Maybe a step by step tutorial with screen shots would help out?

    I know I would be interested I just started looking into using Daz for game models.
     
  14. goat

    goat

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    To use DAZ Original Models in Unity (or any game engine) is $500. To buy the Decimator is less than $100. Then each DAZ Original model is extra.

    That is by far the best deal on proven, professional models out there. Particularly if you are good at texturing. Morphs and such shouldn't be exported but you can apply morphs and export that resulting model.

    Things that don't use meshes is where you'll have problems: hair and some clothing and other features.

    Note that the genesis models come free but naked but are still probably easier to use with the DS 4.5 than the MakeHuman/Blender option. Be careful to only use DAZ Original models and to purchase DAZ Original models to avoid legal troubles. That also means you can't buy a mod of a DAZ Original by a Brokered Artist (usually morphs and textures) without buying a license from that Brokered Artist as well. In general to buy a license from a Brokenered Artist is 5 times the price in the DAZ store so it's rather expensive rather fast but nowhere the cost of commisioning an original from a professional. Also, many Brokered Artists do not and will not sell game licenses for their models / mods.

    The best thing about DAZ Studio Pro 4.5 is being able to roundtrip models in FBX format. If you combine DAZ Studio 4.5 with Hexagon 2.5 and Bryce Pro 7.1 they together can do alot of the things that Blender / Gimp / MakeHuman can do and do it easier. The penality comes when you want to make original models if you ever are inclined to try that (I don't think you are: you just want to retire :p)

    Elsewhere in the Unity Forum pages if you search you can see others have done character customization of Genesis models within Unity. For what I've seen Victoria 4 works the best.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2012
  15. dlhilemanjr

    dlhilemanjr

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    Hello,

    I do use the Polygon Group Editor to reduce the amount of material groups down. This reduces the draw calls in Unity. When using the Polygon Group Editor, I use surfaces. I combine all of the surface except for Eyelash and Tear into one group. When you do this, you will see the original groups will show 0 vertices. I then select them while still in Polygon Group Editor and right click delete to remove them. There will also be a Default group that will need deleted. Usually I create a new group called Skin and combine everything into that group.

    As far as creating a video tutorial, I am currently working on an iOS game that I'm trying to get done that will use the Genesis character.
    Once I'm done and have a little extra time, I will create a video tutorial demonstrating what I'm doing.

    I hope that helps.
     
  16. dlhilemanjr

    dlhilemanjr

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    Everything that Goat said is correct. To legally use DAZ models in a game, you need to purchase a game license. Fortunately, you can purchase the Decimator first and get your game 100% complete before having to buy the game license. That will allow you to see how everything works and if you are happy with the results. If everything is working properly, and you are happy with your game, then you could buy the license to ensure everything is legal in your game. Fortunately the license is a one time expense and covers all future games you make.

    There is a way to bring in a custom character and rig it in DAZ. I'm working on a simply solution and explanation of how to do that currently. Someone also wrote a book and has it for sell in the DAZ store on how to do that. I believe it was $19.99. They demonstrate how to rig a gingerbread man they made in another program.

    For someone first starting out in 3D, DAZ has Bryce, DAZ Studio, and Hexagon which are all free programs. They also have a program called Cararra which is lot less than Maya and 3DS Max or Vue. Try out their software and then you can decide if it will work out for you or not. Fortunately, since it is free, you are not out anything if you don't like it.
     
  17. dansav

    dansav

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    interesting idea using the decimator multiple times.

    Dan
     
  18. ina

    ina

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    any screenshots of what daz models look like in unity games?

    what about unity mobile?
     
  19. doghouse2

    doghouse2

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    Nice work. Looking forward to the movie.
     
  20. alterus

    alterus

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    I quote from DAZ license agreement

    you may not in any case: (a) separately publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense any 3-D Model(s) or any part thereof; or (b) publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense renderings, animations, software applications, data or any other product from which any original 3-D Model(s), or any part thereof, or any substantially similar version of the original 3-D Model(s) can be separately exported, extracted, or de-compiled into any re-distributable form or format. Subject to the foregoin

    Based on a common sense interpretation you should be allowed to use DAZ 3D models in a commercial game provide the files are protected unless DAZ argue that no protection system is 100 % reliable

    Any lawyer , here ?
     
  21. wccrawford

    wccrawford

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    That part says you can't make a game. To distribute a game, you need to distribute the models. That's a no-go.
     
  22. alterus

    alterus

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    if your interpretation is correct then it would be a circular reasoning which it is not allowed in a contract
    Actually it says that the models can not be used in software applications from which they can be extracted and redistributed
    In other words it is your responsbility to protect the models
    Think of commercial games, you can not extract the models from your game
    my question is
    What does it happen if someone cracks your game ?
     
  23. forgottenmindset

    forgottenmindset

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    Sorry to bring this back from the grave.. were you able to get decent performance out of the Daz models? 40 fps on just viewing a model isn't very good. I'm thinking of using this, but it seems unrealistic for mobile. Any luck?
     
  24. marvelshaan

    marvelshaan

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    you can use daz 3d modes in games for free.

    take licence if your are making 100000$ annually..........anyone see this line under price tag??....im i right?????

    my question is-->> i dont want use daz 3d intenal preset models but i want use shop models which i purchased in daz3d shop in my game....can i take any licence???..that licence applicable,if you use daz 3d intenal preset models in your game....im i right??....correct me....
     
  25. marvelshaan

    marvelshaan

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    you can use daz 3d modes in games for free.

    take licence if your are making 100000$ annually..........anyone see this line under price tag??....im i right?????

    my question is-->> i dont want use daz 3d intenal preset models but i want use shop models which i purchased in daz3d shop in my game....can i take any licence???..that licence applicable,if you use daz 3d intenal preset models in your game....im i right??....correct me....
     
  26. Shawn67

    Shawn67

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    From what I'm reading, anything under $100k if used in a game requires a purchase of the $500 indie license.. (link is in the first page of this thread)..

    Also, not all the stuff in the Daz shop are owned by Daz.. Anything created by someone other than Daz would not be covered by the license. Only things created by Daz are part of the license.. At least that is my understanding.. I just discovered Daz today and am looking into using it as well.
     
  27. JChappell

    JChappell

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    It would be one thing if daz had made this feature only usable on models from creators who had 'opted in', and allowed them to set an additional cost, or individual licencing restrictions regarding distribution of models....but they didn't. Daz will sue anyone distributing content derived from theirs that does not require the purchase of the original, but will do THIS to the independant artists who make content compatible with their platform...
    I pulled down or repriced many of my daz-compatible figures from the stores they were in when I heard that daz was deliberately making it easier to rip them off: I put them in the store, priced at a certain level based on a licence that said no, the models cannot legally be distributed in any form. Now, they provide tools that you apparently don't even need to buy the game development licence to use to let people crudely auto-decimate them ready to plop down in whatever they feel like... DAZ gets the money from the licence, the artists do not see a single additional cent over what they get for the intended use- renders or animations. This is no less a violation of the artist's copyright than if you had retopo'd and remapped it yourself, before Daz'z so called 'game developer licence'. It just takes actual skill, or the chance of it looking any good out of the equation..

    The only thing worse than spotting my work, uncredited (or credited to 'daz', ...or claimed as the *cough* game designers own work because they, like, totally twiddled a morph dial and hue-shifted the texture and they totally bought the model *just..on...their other account...totally not utorrent...* ... ) and redistribution-right-unpaid-for in some shovelware game.............. would be seeing it crudely decimated, looking like utter crap compared to things I've actually designed for a lower polycount, with my name mentioned....
    And no, I am not being hyperbolic. I have already dealt with one person violate the licence to use my fig in his game even before this silly tool came out... (the illiterate brat actually tried to insist that, as he bought the 80 k quad poser version, I was 'obligated' to optimise it for his game as 'customer support' and to also magically use animations made for figures with a different number of legs, in a different program.... )

    TL;DR: Oh look! daz has resorted to questionably-legal profiteering...
     
  28. abangyarudo

    abangyarudo

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    I know this is a dead topic but maybe this is due to my experiences but I wanted to share my experiences as someone who is intending to get said license and working to do right by the artists in the store. Daz3d saved me alot of money on good quality models and unlike the perception given here its not that hard to get all models that go under the license. I had two pieces of work that didn't fit under the license so I reached out to the artists to see if we could come to an agreement.

    I got two very different responses which seems from the people I've talked to relatively calm from the others who have done similarly. The first piece was a skin-map and makeup assets, I reached out to the artist and she was a doll she was ready to give permission and she even offered to do custom work for me. With that interaction I kind of felt that how the community there was portrayed was possibly over-exaggeration by whiny people who didn't get things they wanted.

    I moved on to a hair I loved it was feminine with the right amount of masculinity for the type of character I was using it for. I approached the artist and she said that she had copyrighted the hair (it was a common style of hair so I was unsure how that work). I approached her with the same deal as the makeup presets and skinmap creator (which I thought was pretty generous considering its a piece of hair on one character) so I talk to her and she absolutely floored me. She originally speaks about talking to her copyright lawyer and then hits me with she wouldn't let me use the hair for less than 10,000. I said (not to her mind you) screw that I could hire someone to make me hair from scratch and it would be less than that amount and the only revenue would be the game where this lady was still getting sales on marketplace under her agreement. As a show of scale I'm getting a demo ready for kickstarter and my whole asking amount is 12k.

    Also in response to JChappel's response I need to clear up his misunderstandings.
    1) Artists do have to opt-in because the only works that you can use are ones that list daz3d as the vendor. Which means at some point you were either paid or consented to daz being listed as the vendor.
    2) The developer license doesn't give people permission to distribute your work. They are supposed to encrypt the assets because it is the license that you cannot openly distribute the products.

    In all its a great resource especially for people like me with a really indie budget but its not sunshine and roses for developers either. We need to do due diligence and to do right by people is hard when some people have delusions of grandeur. Also from what I've seen the artists are being compensated. I also don't understand the belief that its ok to make animations and renders and movies which make money as opposed to video game licenses which do the same thing. While I understand the whole you can extract the meshes if someone follows the rules of the license they wouldn't be able to do that easily.
     
  29. Ullukai

    Ullukai

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    They wanted me to cough up $500+ for a license to use one of their models from daz3d when I contacted them. I have no such money so I obviously dumped daz3d and have not used it since then. That was last year and I don't think they have changed it since then.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
  30. WizardGameDev

    WizardGameDev

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    This is a little bit of a buyer beware kind of thing. I made a poor assumption that when they are selling 3d models, art, and texture that they were like TurboSquid, or Unity's asset store in that as long as I just use them in my projects (which could include games) and didn't sell them as my own work all was good. It wasn't until I started figuring out how I could get some of the things I purchased into Unity3d that I've learned of the licensing, the $500 just use Daz products, etc. It probably wouldn't be a deal killer for me if it moving the assets into Unity3d wasn't a pain in and of itself. So I've asked them to refund the money I spent, a little over $100, as I have no use for art content that I can't use in my projects. I'll admit I should have read the fine print and I should have known the prices on a lot of the assets were too good to be true. But I think the combination of clunky workflow and tough to navigate licenses make Daz3d tough to recommend. I'll follow up on my success in getting a refund. I expect they will and I doubt PayPal will have their back really if I want to push it. They almost always side in favor of the person spending the money in my experience.
     
  31. goat

    goat

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    I doubt they'll refund but if they do consider yourself lucky. Most 'opened' SW is not allowed to be returned to the place of purchase, even at places like Wal*Mart.
     
  32. Brianna4play

    Brianna4play

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    I was searching for this kind of information when I came across this thread.

    I am a player in an online game where we will soon be able to upload our own props/assets.

    My question is this:

    Can I purchase assets/props from the Unity Asset Store and upload them into the game?
    I am not looking to sell them just to have them in my property in the game, my house as it were.
    What would I need to do to allow me to upload and use these assets in the game?
    Do I need a license? Special permissions from creators?

    Just how would this work?
     
  33. jakobr2005

    jakobr2005

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    i have a problem, i imported the character in unity fine with all the clothes, but im making a mutiplayer fps so i can't just use 2 arms. when i parent the abdomen in the fps camera so when i look up he will look up with the camera, his stomach shoots out, any way to fix this?