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CTS - Complete Terrain Shader - Deprecated

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by AdamGoodrich, Jun 19, 2017.

  1. trilobyteme

    trilobyteme

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    Something is definitely not working as expected/hoped. Additional tests I made over the weekend on an 8-terrain texture scene showed that setting normals to 512x512 with compression didn't affect the size, but leaving it set to 1024x1024 and then setting overrides on the normal maps to 512 the same scened dropped by more than 50MB. When I tried using the optimization panel to set normals to 512x512 on the scene with 16 terrains, it made the terrain appear striped (but setting to 1024 and then using overrides to reduce normals to 512x512 worked).

    Last night and this morning I was also tinkering with the scene that had 16 terrain textures. Removing 4 terrain map sets that I wasn't using and then rebaking led to a scene that was the same size (it appeared to still be using those maps). Building a clean profile with only the 12 that were needed led to a smaller uploaded/processed region, but the drop was less than 10MB, which seemed odd considering it had 25% fewer terrain maps connected to it.
     
  2. Quique-Martinez

    Quique-Martinez

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    Hi is there a roadmap where know new planned features?
    Have you condidered mesh blending?
    Cheers.
     
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  3. Mark_01

    Mark_01

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  4. magique

    magique

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    Time to get Vegetation Studio. ;)
     
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  5. AdamGoodrich

    AdamGoodrich

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    Vegetation Studio is a brilliant product - i have been able to render some really rich stuff with it!

    Grab 20171011184840 w1920h1029 x-47y67z-118r180.jpg

    Grab 20171011185309 w1920h1029 x-46y65z-126r190.jpg

    CTS is rendering the terrain.
     
  6. mattis89

    mattis89

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    Cant find it on asset store?:S
     
  7. magique

    magique

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  8. AdamGoodrich

    AdamGoodrich

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    Check link in my post above.
     
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  9. creat327

    creat327

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    Is there any comparison on performance of cts, microsplat and rtp? I've only found this video from august and microsplat seems to be double the speed:


    is that still the case? I don't want to have to purchase every single package in the store to compare...
     
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  10. tgaldi

    tgaldi

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    Hey,

    We are currently using TerraLand for our terrain generation so that we can create large tiled terrains matching real world locations:
    https://forum.unity.com/threads/30-...tic-terrains-from-real-world-gis-data.377858/

    We purchased CTS so we can integrate colormap tiled textures at the player location, since these satellite images don't look great up close. We are also planning to use World Streamer to page tiles in and out as the player moves.

    Each terrain tile has a unique texture taken from a satellite image, and it seems that to use CTS we will need to have a separate profile for each terrain tile. Is this correct? I imagine we will have to write our own scripts to automate the process of generating profiles and wiring them up to each tile. Also, would having a separate profile for each tile create poorer performance than using the standard terrain shader?

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  11. mattis89

    mattis89

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    What did you do to make it look so damn good?

    Btw I sent to support.. I got errors baking in cts component... panic
     
  12. Mark_01

    Mark_01

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    Its not cool posting links of competing products .. if you are serious and want to know ... and anyone else that wants to know about CTS ... here is a duplicate of some of a past post of mine >>>>

    Here two posts from a very well known respected member of the community, that even wrote his own private version of Vegetation Studio ( just to show yes this guy knows what he is talking about. )

    For those others that may see this ... Here is 2 links from some one that actually knows what they are doing and SAYING ...

    The first post is about CTS ( current version ) two page's back >>>
    https://forum.unity.com/threads/cts-complete-terrain-shader.477615/page-23#post-3269030

    And this one if there is any doubt, you can go check this guys web site as well.

    https://forum.unity.com/threads/submitted-vegetation-studio.479244/page-11#post-3280187


    That was last August BTW !! CTS has had one big upgrade already and another is slated for for mesh blending and more features

    I love how when it rains with CTS the ground looks wet too, same with snow.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
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  13. magique

    magique

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    Those are great testimonies, but neither of those posts actually address the original poster's questions regarding performance comparisons.
     
  14. Mark_01

    Mark_01

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    He has said he has tried them all. That infer's all the terrain shaders as well.
    Since that post was made in CTS forum a quick add up to get every thing
    will cost them 109$ USD .. might be another factor IDK. But CTS will have every thing
    for one cost upfront .. not all added up to be 110 $ USD

    In any-case my opinion is RTP to complicated, the other for what will end up being costing a lot more the same features CTS will have.

    Adam and Bart at this time do not have the time to play the FPS game again
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  15. AdamGoodrich

    AdamGoodrich

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    The journey of an asset store publisher can at times be a place of high passions because our livelihoods depend on our ability to sell our products and among my competitors I have generally experienced that business is conducted with professionalism and mutual respect. This video has a fascinating back story and you can judge for yourself whether or not the author continues with this tradition.

    By way of response to your question, CTS gets more features and more optimization with each addition release so the story being told here is out of date. Additionally, there are many ways you can configure each of the terrain shaders out there depending on the features you switch on and off these all affect their performance.

    The feedback I regularly get on CTS as compared to its competitors is that it incredibly easy to use, delivers fantastic render quality, and is also fast. I have not done a comparative test and I suspect we are not the fastest terrain shader out there - but I also know that we are fast enough to be a good solution for most games (our basic demo runs at 650 fps on my machine), and our usability and render quality is as good as it gets.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  16. magique

    magique

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    So have I, but that doesn't tell you the performance comparisons for them.
     
  17. lawsochi

    lawsochi

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    this is the case when you come to the store, and say: give me a processor, to the question - which Intel or AMD.? you say - give both, I'll try, choose the best one and use it, and put the other on the shelf....))))
     
  18. AdamGoodrich

    AdamGoodrich

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    And fair enough too :)

    The interesting thing is that we can all co-exist and everyone will have that thing that they love about their choice.

    The thing that bugs me is the toxicity that seems to happen along the way. One of the reviews on CTS also came with a personal threat, which I forwarded onto Unity, and I am like - really - do we need to go here?
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
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  19. lawsochi

    lawsochi

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    AdamGoodrich, I apologize for my English, if you did not understand me, I did not in any way want to blame you, it's all Google translator.)) I consider you one of the best developers in the unity store. all I wanted to say is that the store system itself is not perfect. there are no trial versions. and there are no common criteria for comparing competitors. user reviews are good, but ... subjectively. and the question is, does it take a lot of time and labor to do a trial version, dll or another way? in any case, thanks for your work.
     
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  20. AdamGoodrich

    AdamGoodrich

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    No offence was taken :)
     
  21. AdamGoodrich

    AdamGoodrich

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    CTS has color map support - so you can use one profile - and put a separate color map on every terrain (i.e. satellite image). In next release we are also adding ability to tweak its positioning.
     
  22. AdamGoodrich

    AdamGoodrich

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    A review was posted in the Vegetation Studio reviews today that accuses me and people who are in some way related with CTS of down voting Vegetation Studio reviews that mention MicroSplat.

    For the record I have NEVER down voted comments made about competitors products, nor do I down rate competitors products, and I DO NOT condone or support troll like behaviour in any form.

    There is room for us all on the asset store, and I for one have much better things to do with my life than play petty politics. I would like to hope that the good people here have a similar point of view.
     
  23. Mark_01

    Mark_01

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    I have to say this , copy paste
    1 day ago

    Finally decent vegetation performance! ( this is Adams Review )
    (19 of 31 found this review helpful) hummmm accusing CTS people take a look at the ratio ...
    talk about calling the kettle black ....

    I will delete this when Adam asks me too .. just an observation that should be made.

    You don't see a ton of people that got Vegetation Studio, saying how good it works with CTS in the reviews. Just the people with micro splat. Seems one sided.
     
  24. magique

    magique

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    There's a specific feature of Microsplat that is integrated with Vegetation Studio. I'm not sure CTS has that same feature and/or if it's integrated with VS. Maybe that's why?
     
  25. Mark_01

    Mark_01

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    It looks like what it looks like. And I tried CTS on the extra demo that you download ..
    CTS work fine .. I am guessing there could be better integration and I assume there will be.

    Just saying it looks like a lot more hate being spewed Adams way in those reviews over any one else.

    Think about it .. Adam has said how Great VS is and in the review as well .. As well as posting links in his forums.

    As of now i count 3 or 4 down votes on people that have to say it works with Microsplat and that is total 4 down votes..
    Adam has 19 of 31 .. really ? I am not debating it with you because I have a flu and i am tired.

    It speaks for itself.

    .
     
  26. BackwoodsGaming

    BackwoodsGaming

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    No need to debate it. This isn't the place for it guys. I know Adam is trying to move past this crap and focus on his business, but the other side keeps pulling this crap to pull him back into their "games". Posting crap on asset reviews like was posted when that asset really has nothing to do with the two competing assets is not cool. And making assumptions that downvotes are CTS people or Microsplat people is just that. Assumptions. Quit assuming S*** and feeding the fuel that some are trying to put in the past, where it belongs. Move on already. Focus on your games and your assets. Also advertising and promoting competitor assets in another asset's thread is not cool either.

    To bring things back on topic, I had no problems working with Vegetation Studios with CTS during the time I tested VS in beta. It worked great and Lennart was very responsive to questions, bug reports, and suggestions from anyone in the team. Please quit casting a shadow on this excellent tool's release with all the squabbling and if you haven't already done so, go buy Vegetation Studio. If you want lush foliage in your environments, this is the tool you need.
     
  27. AdamGoodrich

    AdamGoodrich

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  28. Rastapastor

    Rastapastor

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    You cannot cheat the physics sadly :). If You want blows and whistles on Your terrain shader, You have to pay for it. I experienced (and still experience it) when meddling with the UE4 terrain and landscape material.

    But what is cool now as i own the CTS now, is that when i jump to Unity, i dont have to meddle into shader stuff, i just put the profile and have fun :). Ofc some may say its lazy etc., but gladly i treat this thing as a hobby and more time i have to play with the fun stuff the better for me. In normal life i am a programmer so its a relief for me that after 8-10 hours of looking at the code, i can lush into beautiful environments and have fun. Perhaps some day this will evolve into sth else. The only downside of relying on assets is that if the creator stops the support, we will be basically kitten up :D (but i think Adam gonna support his work for as long as he can :D).

    As for the performance of CTS, new version increased performance on the same terrains compared to older version. And we have to consider that CTS is a relatively new product, so imagine where its gonna be in the next year from now, receiving features and performance updates :).

    As for the creators and fuss around it. I think those ppl are professional, there are ppl that like Micro/Megasplat or RTP and there are ppl like me who likes CTS and the output it generates on the terrain, so in the best business for the creators for the assets like VS, Enviro, CTS etc., is to cooperate with each other, if they antagonize or forsake some portion of the community, its a business loss for them.
     
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  29. Ziboo

    Ziboo

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    Hi,

    I was wondering if some issues have been fixed with new version 1.5 ?
    I'm still on 1.1, since we are in the middle of production.
    1. Undo support in inspector
    2. Reordering textures on the terrain does indeed reorder texture in the profiles but properties are not transfert. If Texture 1 had a blue color tint and Texture 2 a white color tint, and I reorder, Texture 1 will still have blue.. Really annoying !
    Thanks
     
  30. creat327

    creat327

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    hey, i only asked if there was a performance comparison, i didn't want to troll or begin a war.
    It's only fair, since now there are a bunch of competing products, that actually do a comparison. The guy at microsplat did it back in august and things has changed lot since. That was exactly my question, if things has improved performance wise since then and what was the current state.

    If you think that's trolling, ok, i'll just place it on a separate thread. I think it would be silly that I need to buy all packages, do a performance test myself at my expense and post a new thread with my review at my own cost. That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid, i just want to buy whatever performs better because all of them look good graphically.
     
  31. AdamGoodrich

    AdamGoodrich

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    It's sort of like the AMD vs Intel example someone made earlier. All of these shaders do a good job - so any one of them will do what you want.

    So given that, the next question was about performance. If you want to see CTS performance for you then you can download a demo app from here : http://www.procedural-worlds.com/cts/demos/cts-demos/

    Performance is hard to quantify - as all of these systems are configurable and this directly affects performance, and additionally, these systems are evolving and performance changes from release to release.

    Its there but sometimes buggy. There is a lot of stuff happening under hood and this messes up the undo system. Will explore this more in the next release.

    And wont be. What you are asking is technically quite difficult and the return for what would probably be a week or two of my effort is minimal. The alternative is for you to spend 10 minutes and plan your texture load-out up front.

    The biggest reason to upgrade to 1.5 is that it delivers a very nice performance boost.
     
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  32. mattis89

    mattis89

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    Pssst.. can you adam check the support mail :oops:
     
  33. tgaldi

    tgaldi

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    Thanks Adam.

    If anyone else is in a similar situation, I simply added the following to CTSTerrainManager's AddCTSToAllTerrains function.
    Code (CSharp):
    1.  if( UseSplatAsColorMap && terrain.terrainData.splatPrototypes[0].texture != null )
    2.      shader.ColorMap = terrain.terrainData.splatPrototypes[0].texture;
    as well as the public bool UseSplatAsColorMap;

    Code (CSharp):
    1.  
    2.         /// <summary>
    3.         /// Add CTS to all terrains
    4.         /// </summary>
    5.         public void AddCTSToAllTerrains()
    6.         {
    7.             m_shaderList.Clear();
    8.             foreach (var terrain in Terrain.activeTerrains)
    9.             {
    10.                 CompleteTerrainShader shader = terrain.gameObject.GetComponent<CompleteTerrainShader>();
    11.                 if (shader == null)
    12.                 {
    13.                     shader = terrain.gameObject.AddComponent<CompleteTerrainShader>();
    14.                     if( UseSplatAsColorMap && terrain.terrainData.splatPrototypes[0].texture != null )
    15.                         shader.ColorMap = terrain.terrainData.splatPrototypes[0].texture;
    16.                     CompleteTerrainShader.SetDirty(shader, false, false);
    17.                     CompleteTerrainShader.SetDirty(terrain, false, false);
    18.                 }
    19.                 m_shaderList.Add(shader);
    20.                 m_lastShaderListUpdate = DateTime.Now;
    21.             }
    22.             #if UNITY_EDITOR
    23.             //AssetDatabase.SaveAssets();
    24.             if (!Application.isPlaying)
    25.             {
    26.                 if (Terrain.activeTerrain != null)
    27.                 {
    28.                     EditorGUIUtility.PingObject(Terrain.activeTerrain);
    29.                 }
    30.             }
    31.             #endif
    32.         }
    33.  
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  34. AdamGoodrich

    AdamGoodrich

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    I am - cant see anything from you unless you use a different name. Drop me PM with the name you use :)
     
  35. mattis89

    mattis89

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    I didnt have time to make the video but tomorror I will.. so much work and early bedtimes... what about the cutout and masking tutorial? :)
     
  36. AdamGoodrich

    AdamGoodrich

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    Here is my Unite presentation on World Creation in Unity. If you can get past the first 10 minutes off waffle, the rest of the presentation is all demo and it shows off a whole range of tools :)

     
  37. magique

    magique

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    Great talk Adam. Looking forward to Gaia 2. Is Vegetation Studio integration already in Gaia or not until Gaia 2?
     
  38. killer1171090

    killer1171090

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    Can I use this on a mesh I am using as terrain? The mesh also gets rotated at runtime.
     
  39. sonicviz

    sonicviz

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    Just bought CTS and installed it but getting errors like:
    TerrainData is missing splat texture 0(T_Ground_Sand_02_A_Sm), make sure it is marked for read/write in the importer.
    UnityEngine.TerrainData:set_splatPrototypes(SplatPrototype[])
    CTS.CompleteTerrainShader:ReplaceTerrainTexturesFromProfile() (at Assets/CTS/Scripts/CompleteTerrainShader.cs:2169)
    CTS.CompleteTerrainShader:ApplyUnityShader() (at Assets/CTS/Scripts/CompleteTerrainShader.cs:683)
    CTS.CompleteTerrainShader:Awake() (at Assets/CTS/Scripts/CompleteTerrainShader.cs:465)
     
  40. mattis89

    mattis89

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    I recieve errors too... do you get them when you bake textures or on import?
     
  41. sonicviz

    sonicviz

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  42. mattis89

    mattis89

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    Okay....I get when I bake..
     
  43. crimsonmortis

    crimsonmortis

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    I am trying to find the source of this err:
    Assertion failed: Assertion failed on expression: 'scriptParameterClass != NULL'
    It happened when I imported CTS into my project and show sin the console every time I run the project. My project runs well and other then looking a little foggy/fadded (I have not done anything to lighting except set linear deff.) I am having no issues Just trying to find the cause. other assets in project are:
    unity standard Crossplatform, editor, effects, enviroments, utility
    Post Procssing
    SmartFPController
    Gizmos (part of compass pro)
    Gaia
    Enviro
    CTS
    CompoassNavigatorPro
    Aquas
    I am using unity 2017.2.0f3 so may be a veresion issue?
     
  44. magique

    magique

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    AdamGoodrich and crimsonmortis like this.
  45. crimsonmortis

    crimsonmortis

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    Thank you for the quick answer can relax now I know it was not something I did. Going to go stretch and then go back to fixing the lighting sure it is something simple but being new will be fun to figure out. If the effect went away as the sun came up (enviro) I would leave it as morning fog but everything stays faded.




     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
  46. NatureManufacture

    NatureManufacture

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    Rotation will break normalmaps. Terrain shader have simple functions to cut calculations. Unity terrain have blocked rotation so we didnt add any additional calculation for normalmaps.
     
  47. mattis89

    mattis89

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    CTSerror.png :( I dont understand...empty clean project... If I only import gaia & cts... I get even more errors... but not these.. Im not a noob It just dosent work... makes no sense.... using Unity 5.6.2f1
     
  48. AdamGoodrich

    AdamGoodrich

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    Really hard to say as I have no context. I can see a bunch of aquas errors in there as well so it looks like you have imported more than just Gaia and CTS. Old versions of AQUAS includes some standard assets and the new version includes and depends on post processing effects version 1 (which is annoying when you want to use version 2!).

    I am wondering if there is a unity version issue happening as I get none of this sort of behavior in 2017+.

    Never seen this either.. and i create new projects all the time... as per the comment above - maybe its a unity version thing.

    Can you please send me a message and more details such as unity version, platform etc to https://proceduralworlds.freshdesk.com/support/home
     
  49. Aatux

    Aatux

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    Amazing shader....
     
  50. mattis89

    mattis89

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    I start to believe its a verision thing.. because this makes no sense at all.. but I dont want to use 2017.. im gonna try 5.6 latest patch today and update here...

    Whaat aquas depends on stack 1???? that reallly sucks because I use lightinthebox wich uses stack 2.. ( thats why aquas underwater effects got so weird looking, white on day and black on night, not blue and nice looking)