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Could I make a living being an Indie Game Dev?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MrSanfrinsisco, Sep 28, 2018.

  1. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    Keep in the mind the Amiga market is small. A bestseller like top top hit might... might... be able to sell 2,000 copies. But that is the equivalent of the 1 million+ hits for an Indie game on Steam, etc.

    I only mentioned 2d games, retro games, lowrez games, myself working on an ultra lowrez game and Undertale, VVVVVV, Hotline Miami, etc just because this kind of discussion so often goes to a focus on quality where ultimately the only thing that seems to be meant by quality is simply "does it look superb for 2018... is it shiny(as our good friend ShadowK used to say)?" and just wanted to show that quality has no meaning in and of itself. Has to have a context.

    This same thing can be applied to many games. There are games that truly look completely amateur but that doesn't mean it isn't a quality game and doesn't mean nobody will like it.

    Anyway... another example... not pixel art... not 2D... someone around here shared a video a while back for a game called Baldi's Basics in Education & Learning. Amazingly as much I dig through masses of non shiny games looking for interesting stuff I never came across it.

    Like the poster (I believe it was @neoshaman) said... if someone had shared this here majority of people would have laughed at him and bashed the work just tore it up. They would have said almost instantly the graphics are terrible nobody will play that. They would have said the game is done so poorly all around it just has no good in it. No doubt in my mind most would have said that.

    Here it is....


    This game has generated over $60,000 since being released about 5 months or so ago (I *think* it was released just 5 to 6 months might be wrong on that) and has a huge following eagerly waiting for his official mobile version.

    So don't think it has to be a retro game or whatever. That has never been my point when discussing this stuff. All I am trying to get across is make stuff that someone out there will appreciate. Make games with some heart & soul that are "different"... games that are uniquely yours.

    What is the name of your Amiga game? Wondering if it is something I played in the past and if not I might see if I can track it down and give it a go.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2018
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  2. chelnok

    chelnok

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    This reminded me of "The intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for unlocking different heroes." - EA community team

    Most downvoted reddit comment (by far) in reddit history: https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBa...id_80_to_have_vader_locked/dppum98/?context=5
     
  3. GarBenjamin

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    Yeah for me it isn't the worse thing ever for games as far I am aware of it anyway.... when I played XB360/PS3 games years back I saw notifications popping up for achievements but that was all it was. Same when I play Steam games I see the notifications of earning those achievenents or whatever but it has no meaning to me. I don't even know what they exactly are that I "earned".

    I definitely think a lot of people do love this kind of stuff though. There are a lot of people who are super competitive in games (or even life in general). I've seen some YT vids of people on those military shooter games just killing all new players as fast as they could. A team of them that was their competition. And I guess they livestream it. I don't know exactly. To me it is obviously not a good thing to do a stupid way to entertain themselves but there are all kinds of people in the world. Anyway that was their claim to fame so to speak.

    I guess a lot of people want that social recognition. Even the FB and mobile games have the sharing of scores and so forth as screenshots as @Antypodish mentioned. I see it on my FB occasionally where someone will share "X has reached level 13 in so-and-so", "Y has created a bakery!" and so on.

    Now I guess what @Murgilod is talking about would be getting all these invites to join games because devs made it trying to forcefully create a viral marketing campaign for the games. Nobody I know likes that. People receiving the invites hate it and the person having to annoy their friends by inviting them hates it. But FB games have had it for years... invite x friends to continue or buy gems (or whatever). So that I do agree with @Murgilod is very bad. But still people keep playing them.

    [axed rambling relating my personal experience playing a FB game years back]

    So I think some social stuff is good and I also think it is not solely the devs fault in many cases because there are a lot of pain in the arse gamers that abuse the social stuff. But these devs making it so you HAVE to either market the game for them OR spend money yeah completely agree @Murgilod that kind of thing is evil.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
  4. Lurking-Ninja

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    Yeah, I thought that I don't care about achievements as well, until I started to play Civ VI. And I just realized that I'm choosing my leader at every new game based on the fact if I already got the achievement for them or not.
    And it wasn't a conscious decision, I just realized that I'm browsing my achievement-list what leaders aren't there so I can play the new round with one of them.

    This is the story of my fall.
     
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  5. zenGarden

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    I would like a remake of Amiga game "Hunter".
    Like Elite game, this was the first steps towards open worlds games.

     
  6. Antypodish

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    Well, as I mentioned
    I don't care "much", but there is a little bit that I do care from time, to time.
    I do typically look into games achievements, as case study.
    Other times I may look into achievements, is when they impose a challenge to a gameplay, or introduce bonuses later.
    I may treat them as quests, specially in sandbox type games.
    But if achievements in game are of type, "kill x enemies", or "collect x items" I don't even bother about them.
    Yet others do I know.

    A bit tricky classification may be the tech tree in games.
    Technically they can be also treated as achievements. Then I can not say, I don't look at them completely ;)
    So my fall would be there :p

    Referring specifically to the first part of quotation, this comes from our genetics inherited from ancestors, from well over 100k years ago. When in past good reward required a big challenge, now we can reward our self withing few min, by playing a game ;)

    Well true. But unfortunately our mentality and psychology is exploited, often to drain our pockets. EA is one of extreme examples. But FB is not any better. Just in smaller scale.

    In fact little story of mine here. I just to play long time ago one game for a while on FB. Something about building city. Was interesting, to the point all was taking long time, to place anything new. I was interested, if looking int micro transactions is worth anyhow, for that game. After studding the case deeper, I realized, that I would have to pay 20$, to get option to place one building, which otherwise I could have in 5 days. And that was just one building, across many dozens. Of course never spent any cent. But then was last time I played on FB.

    And this quite annoys me too, when I have seen such messages.
    Specially blocking such every time, when been asking for publicizing what and how I play, and what I got, etc.
     
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  7. Murgilod

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    What if I want to make a good game instead?
     
  8. zenGarden

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    I also never care about achievements, i enjoy the game and it's content.
    There was a game giving in game rewards when new achievements aw unlocked, in this game i tried to complete achievements that were easy.
    I guess achievements are mainly for peope wanting more challenges or challenging other people.
     
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  9. Antypodish

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    Still. Players play for enjoyment. Depends on game, one of achievement may be to win a game, which is why players play, isn't it? But yes, if there is a badge, for sake of getting a badge, do whatever please. Not a selling point for me personally. But surely would give a game a bit of edge, to keep some players more interested, and reason to talk about. Which is a free publicity.
     
  10. Murgilod

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    Why put this reward in the meta game when you can put it in the game itself?
     
  11. Antypodish

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    Can you elaborate a bit more, with an example?
     
  12. Murgilod

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    I'm tired, so I'm just going to gesture at systems like the Wii, the Switch, the Wii U, and the 3DS, none of which have any support for achievements. What you see in the games on these systems is that instead of getting a meta game award like an external trophy, you get something in the F***ing game you are playing. You get cutscenes, you get unlockables, you get additional characters, you get a hat, you get to sit in a special chair. The reward is the game, rather than the nebulous concept of something like a "Gamerscore."
     
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  13. GarBenjamin

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    Simplest answer is this external meta game "social clout" stuff is not made for you (or me either for that matter).
     
  14. Murgilod

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    The people who actually plat games are an extreme minority, if the data released is any indication:

    https://business.financialpost.com/...ng-facts-gleaned-from-playstation-trophy-data

    This is a few years old, but it ends up showing that the whole "bragging rights" thing doesn't really... have a committed player base large enough that it should be driving these kinds of design decisions. The trophy/achievement hunting community is tiny as hell. It's actually why a channel literally called Achievement Hunter hasn't actually put up an achievement guide video in two years and has instead pivoted towards more generalised content. There really isn't a significant audience there.

    The average plat rate for a game tends to skew low. Like, less than a percent low. Why do we have achievements and not decent colourblind modes or other accessibility options in game when those would affect more players?

    (It's because achievements are dirt cheap to implement and give the illusion of more content.)
     
  15. Martin_H

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    If you phrase it like that, this sounds much worse to me than the meaningless steam achievements. It's actual content withheld from people who don't bother with working through arbitrary ingame-todo-lists. That sounds even more annoying and forced to me.


    If everyone had plat trophys there would be nothing to brag about. It's the fact that only single-digit (or less) percentages have it that makes it desirable to have imho (for those who care enough to put in the effort).


    Fully agree that this would make more sense to implement!
     
  16. Murgilod

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    You do realise that videogames themselves are content gated off by todo lists, right? You don't get anything if you don't play the game. The more involved the process, the better the reward.
     
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  17. GarBenjamin

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    Maybe the % is small but the only way to get that segment is to cater to them with this stuff. I don't know for sure I just think it is a big thing in some ways based on the bit of research I did into it previously when at one time I started wondering if perhaps the best way to build a business on Steam was solely through focus on unique achievements. lol

    I know I found one kind of mainstream site that is I guess well regarded in that community called TrueSteamAchievements. Looks like there are about 20,000 people there. Which granted is small in the grand scale of thing but at the same time large enough to make a difference.

    Seems like there were numerous groups or whatever for it on Steam as well but these must be the die hards judging by the name... Steam Community Group 100% Achievements. which right now has about 14,000 people currently online and it looks like a little over 3,000 are active in game chasing those achievements.

    All I know is they must be doing it for a reason. And I guess it is enough people must be into it that it is worth the extra effort to build this stuff. I mean let's face it that is an extra expense having to build infrastructure for this stuff in the first place. And like Steam itself they must feel that people (at least enough people) want this kind of thing or they probably wouldn't have even bothered adding the trading cards or whatever in heck it is in the first place.

    I am completely with you on not being into it myself. I just figure I am not the intended audience for it but there has to be one I would think or else all of these platform creators are trying to create a market for it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2018
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  18. GarBenjamin

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    Maybe these kind of glory hunter people are the "whales" so to speak so each one of them is worth like 10x or maybe 100x as much as the "normal" players? I'm just thinking out loud trying to make sense of it.
     
  19. Antypodish

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    Sure, would prefer such unshockable as long they are part of normal game play. Not that I need be forced to do certain thing. Like collect x times something. Unless it happens naturally, without even focusing on it. But "collected" rewards can highlight type of play style. Even displaying generic stats, can be rewarding.

    Hence I mentioned about technological trees for example. Just achieved through a normal gameplay.

    Regarding small percentage of players, who "cares" ... last sentence is true, as these are cheap to implement.
    Never the less, it is wrong assumption, that is small player base, which cares. 5% maybe 20%? Don't know. Maybe steam has some statistics. Yet having 40%, or 90% of all achievements, don't mean player is not somehow interested about them. Many may have not enough time to get all, or for any reason. Then getting eve 5 to 10% more engagement in game, makes more likely your game likable. Which propagates.

    Mind, unless we have actual data, is hard to speculate. But I wouldn't say trophies are good measure in this case. They just indicate players, who finished this, or that. We don't know if players really wanted to get into certain trophy, or it just happens, because of gameplay.

    And mind, there is actually only small % of players, from bigger pool, who discusses publicly upon theirs achievements. So players volume who cares, will be much greater.
     
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  20. neoshaman

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    Achievement was useful because it was the poor's man public analytic. It even leaked obfuscated data of sales on steam before valve took precision out.
     
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  21. GarBenjamin

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    This is an excellent point. The numbers do not tell us intent.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
  22. TenKHoursDev

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    The anti to this statement include No Man's Sky (on launch) and that pirate game that launched recently with (according to the gaming community) "nothing of interest, to do", the name escapes me.


    Both games were known for lack of interesting things to do. Hence why game developers create achievements and embedded goals for players to ya know, work toward.

    Otherwise you get products like that pirate game (perhaps someone who knows it name could elaborate) and NMS on launch day.

    Regarding this:

    I know some are going to voice their disagreement with what I will put here, but I do not care. You can have your opinions.

    All this tells me is there is an enormous number of people who are:
    1. like minded
    2. easily convinced
    3. negative AF

    These like minded person who were very easily convinced to:
    1. downvote the EA rep's comment purely because they dislike the company ("give us games for free or ELSE")
    2. further the narrative that EA and AAA game companies are terrible places full of despicable people


    I'm with AntyPodish on this one. You guys can have your games without goals. Good luck in the marketplace.
     
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  23. Murgilod

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    I had a big long rant queued up but I'm literally not going to change anyone's mind here so whatever.
     
  24. neoshaman

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    Even OG lauch no man's sky had more hour put into it than many AAA commercial games, the thing that is not told about the noise around that game is that the community was very divided with very invested people and people who wanted something else. Starlink has more goal and gameplay and don't even register. There is a market for wandering game, minecraft prove it long ago.
     
  25. Antypodish

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    This actually was very obvious, by reading any reviews and comments at launch time.
    Division was caused by the difference what was advertised and what was delivered.
     
  26. GarBenjamin

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    I think there is a market for about anything. It just comes down to is the market big enough to support building a business and can that market be reached in a cost effective way.

    If a person has a lot of free time and a lot of money of course it is easier and faster to bring attention to their game and build a fanbase. Otherwise I see it as just a process. I'm working on it now with my latest game. If it was 2 years ago and this was my 3rd game in a row it would build on the momentum of my first two games. But two years is a long time so it is almost (not quite) the same as starting from scratch.

    That's probably the key thing to keep in mind when looking at it from the perspective of "can I do this for a living"... having realistic expectations and viewing it as a process. Don't put all of the focus on one game and expect that single game to be the thing that "makes or breaks" your business.

    Each game created is an opportunity to reach more of my target audience. This next game will reach x number of people. Out of those some tiny % will like it. I will get x fans who appreciate my games. That may be 1 more person or it may be 100. That's all I can expect.

    As I continue to focus on creating interesting games for my target market (which includes myself) and continue making an effort to bring attention to each new game my presence in that target market increases and more people learn about my games and me. And some of those people will like my games and some of those people will appreciate what I am doing.

    Realistic expectations. A process over time and multiple games. Not a lottery ticket.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
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  27. TenKHoursDev

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    I want to add that it *could* tell us intent if we compute the probability that a certain number of achievements are completed in some time frame. Meaning that if the probability is exceeded, it could tell us the player is actively trying to complete them.
     
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  28. zenGarden

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    This presentation has many good advices
     
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  29. GarBenjamin

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    Yeah I think that's solid stuff. Definitely don't want to leave things up to luck (although "luck" clearly does happen I think most people know to not rely on that) and instead treat it like a business. I thought he did a great job covering solid business & marketing basics and liked that he showed just how important the marketing aspect really is. It was good he shared that he is using basic marketing tactics to get people to join the discord community... the old "sign up for my newsletter and get my free ebook on so-and-so" or whatever I am sure everyone has seen around the Internet. And I think it is good he is showing it's not all about the game. This stuff is more important than the game if you want to build a business.

    I also thought it was interesting how he described the 3 tiers (in the mind of the "normal" people out there) as far as the differences between indie game and a AA/mid-tier game.

    Thanks for sharing that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
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  30. AndersMalmgren

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    The Dos game The Terminator was released one year before that

     
  31. zenGarden

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    Hunter is third person , he can drive many vehicles in third person,there is different enemies type , he can swim, hunter is more gta like than terminator dos. Terminator looks like a Doom 3D fps with a large map, it doesn't have the same open world features and movement abilities.
     
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  32. GarBenjamin

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    @Arowx has made some prototypes along these lines. Combining the work in a couple of his prototypes (I remember he made a Zeewolf prototype and various others for humanoid walking around and moving around in a vehicle of one kind of another) probably already has all of the base stuff done just need to focus on the overall game structure and game play.

    I'm going to do an flat shaded ultra low poly 3D game soonish but was thinking more along the lines of Starfox/Cybermorph/Zero-5. Maybe down the road... need to write and build up tech along the way. Lol ;)

    Any reason why you don't make a game like this? Or maybe you are working on it?
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
  33. zenGarden

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    Why not, there is already many great ones that has been made and new ones to come.
    I don't know what style i would take, there is many variations possible
    pixel look (but it's high level production)
    https://twitter.com/ProdeusGame
    low poly flat look
    https://twitter.com/lavabootsstudio
    pixel action game
    https://twitter.com/hashtag/RavenswordLegacy?src=hash
    https://twitter.com/hashtag/skellboy?src=hash
    8 bit look
    https://twitter.com/more8bit
    Simplistic look
    https://twitter.com/mannewdan
    Third person action
    https://twitter.com/malec2b

    I'm really not good drawing2D, otherwise i would make 2D games instead
    https://twitter.com/i/moments/1007540053772468225
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
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  34. BlankDeedxxAldenHilcrest

    BlankDeedxxAldenHilcrest

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    I was gonna say that a couple days ago. That game makes me tingle.

    Zengarden is inaccurate, perhaps things were read wrong.
     
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  35. GarBenjamin

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    True there have been many great or at least very good games made. All of those games you linked to look fantastic visually imo. I don't know if they control well and play well or if they are something I'd personally enjoy experiencing. They might be or might not.

    I am not sure what you and other devs here think about game dev but for me the idea is to make a game that is unique to you. A game that isn't going to exist unless you make it. It absolutely may be heavily inspired by an existing game but it is our reimagining of the game.

    Making games is a very personal & creative process and whatever we make reflects ourselves to some degree whether we are intentionally going for that or not (unless someone has the goal of intentionally trying to exactly clone an existing game just copy it period Lol). I do try to innovate on every game I make to some degree. And that just makes those games all the more uniquely mine.

    What I mean is sure there are other games and a lot of very nice looking games but that doesn't mean there isn't a place for another game that innovates in some way regardless if the game looks as shiny as some other games do or not.

    There is something about Hunter that "connects" with you and if you focus on that whatever that is that is a game worth making. And odds are good there are other people who are not game devs who wish for a game like that ("your version") to be made.

    Definitely agree there are plenty of viable visual styles. Again just my "crazy" view... I think it is just a matter of choosing the visual style that is the best combo of (1) you'd enjoy creating content in that style (2) you can make interesting content in that style (3) you can make that content easily enough that content generation is not an obstacle to completion of the game (4) the visual style suits the game / world / view you want to make (a lesser consideration because you can basically make the game fit the style... which could in itself be the unique twist)

    Other than those anything is good really. And even if very simplistic just changing a camera angle and / or using shaders / lighting can make it very unique and seem more "complex" than it is if that is desired.

    Thanks for sharing all those links. Nice to have so may styles compiled in one spot.
     
  36. zenGarden

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    Sometimes you take some existing game , and change it's gameplay and bring new changes.

    There was a game that didn't done well, it was flat polygons with detailled textures, i didn't found the style attractive, nor the village level, it was bland, good modeling village, but nothing appealing.
    Some indie games changed their style to become lot better based on feedback.
    A game suing a simplistic style must stay attractive.


    Like choosing some theme or filter colors, there is some indie games using grey coloring, and some few colors that stand out for gameplay and to make some graphic style.

    It's a very small compilation, there is lot more than that :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
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  37. GarBenjamin

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    There is an insightful article to put this stuff we have discussed into perspective of a recently released very popular Kickstarter for a game (Boyfriend Dungeon) here.

    Some snippets from it along with magic buffs as applicable...

    Overnight successes don’t exist, from what I've seen. There's usually years and years of work behind the scenes and then MAYBE your game blows up, but mostly not. Plenty of people work for years and their game still doesn't blow up -- that's certainly what happened for our previous games. I guess it’s possible SOME game out there enjoyed overnight success. Maybe they had a good game idea, made that game, and enjoyed sudden fame and prosperity. But that isn’t the story of Boyfriend Dungeon.

    +5000 VISIBILITY ... five years of building our community via high-quality social media

    +1700 LEGIT ... prior releases of pretty cool games, 10 on itch, 3 on Steam, one on GOG, PlayStation, Xbox, and Switch

    +1000 TRUST ... a previous successful Kickstarter with only minor complaints from backers

    +1500 VISIBILITY ... we built an announcement teaser, Steam Coming Soon page, and website 11 months ago and emailed all 3 of these to 300+ press

    +2500 VISIBILITY ... we took that teaser and showed it at PAX South and PAX East alongside our other games

    +5000 VISIBILITY +5000 TRUST ... we've been maintaining and growing a Kitfox newsletter for five years at 12+ gaming events

    +5000 VISIBILITY ... we regularly accept tons of interview requests, whether written, podcast, or video

    +5000 VISIBILITY +5000 TRUST ... regularly appearing on panels, doing talks at conventions like GDC, and sharing knowledge
     
  38. AndersMalmgren

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    Some things are worth more than money, a guy posted in our discord why he should get our game when he could get a more popular game for cheaper. One of our players responders with this video he recorded. Really warms my heart that we have such a dedicated community

     
  39. GarBenjamin

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    That's awesome! This person clearly appreciates what you do. Definitely your target audience.

    Of course... with enough fans like this one and you'll have the money too! :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
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  40. GarBenjamin

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    True. I've seen so many different visual styles in games. Even just something like "pixel art" is such a broad term with a lot of range for the resolution, limited number of colors on screen to wide open, very detailed imagery, very simplistic stylistic imagery, shader and / or lighting fx or not, monochrome, black and white, etc.

    Participating in this thread reminded me of why I resisted anything other than game dev as a hobby for so long. I really don't need or want a second job.

    Even though it might come across as negative that's really not my intention. I just think it is better to have all of this stuff right out in the open so we can all better understand just how much work really goes into those successful games and kickstarters, etc that have nothing to do with the actual game development or game. So many times it seems like people just look at a successful game and look only at the game itself to explain its success and that gives the wrong picture and doesn't do justice to all of the work that really went into making these success stories (again except for those fluke cases).

    Ah well all you can do is just do it. Me I am taking the relaxed way of doing it. Do some game dev. Do some marketing work. Take a break for a day or two. Repeat. Eventually it will all add up to.... something.

    I actually just put my current game out for feedback last night. Overall it seems like people really like it. And I got some great feedback which I just spent some time implementing some of it. Tomorrow will do some more dev. Then Wednesday will do some marketing. Then Thursday I will probably take the night off. I'm not killing myself over it. lol

    Anyway speaking of graphics... here is my Title screen and originally this name was just a working title but after releasing an early image of it on Twitter and saying "Awesome name, right?" I got some likes and laughs from that and thought what the heck just keep it that way.... the full name will be Gar's Defense Game. Anyway... the black border is just to combat the white background on the page.


    It's 128x90 resolution with the actual resolution target of 1280x720. I just render it to an image then scale that up 10x8 times. I think each feedback mentioned chunky pixels or really blocky graphics but also said IT'S AWESOME or DON'T CHANGE THE GRAPHICS! So overall that went a lot better that it could have although if people had complained about them being blocky and said CHANGE IT!! I would have said "this is how it looks stop crying about the graphics and play the damn game!" (ok... not really lol)

    Anyway, I guess we pretty thoroughly dug into this subject here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
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  41. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    That would be fun too :)
     
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  42. PGJ

    PGJ

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    The game was called Robouldix, and it's a Boulder Dash clone on steroids. Very few actually played the game. It got great reviews, but no sales :)

    You can find it at: Robouldix.com
     
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  43. BlankDeedxxAldenHilcrest

    BlankDeedxxAldenHilcrest

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    I'd change the name if you're remaking it. At least remove the D, that's what she said. I'd let the learning curve do some yoga as well, difficulty was one thing I saw cited online about this game. I always loved these types of games.
     
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  44. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    Thanks. I checked out the site. Was hoping to see a video of it in action but didn't see any. Secretive. Haven't searched YT yet. Anyway I will try to check it out tonight. My real amiga is out in the garage but I've had C64 Forever and Amiga Forever emulators for quite a while now.

    EDIT: found it (several vids) on YT. It seems like a solid game although the person playing didn't seem to pick up on needing to destroy the broken walls and kept trying to blow up the solid wall tiles (probably thinking "this dynamite is really bugged only works sometimes").

    I think if you remake it maybe make the first level like half the size or make the player and tiles much larger. It looks like a big level right from the start. Anyway looks good! :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  45. PGJ

    PGJ

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    Haha, yes, the D is a bit unfortunate. The learning curve is high and the game is hard as heck. I guess most games back then was like that :)

    I'm trying to get the level editor to work, but it is written in really ugly C code that need lots of work to get back to life :)
     
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  46. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    I just saw this and thought it looks interesting and unique, in the way that old-school games often did not fit into any existing genre:

    https://www.humblebundle.com/store/do-not-feed-the-monkeys
    https://store.steampowered.com/app/658850/Do_Not_Feed_the_Monkeys/

    I didn't know where to mention it and didn't want to make a new thread for a game that I haven't even played. But at the very least it is one of the few games in recent memory that manages to make me curious, and I consider that a success for their marketing.
     
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  47. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    C? You didn't happen to get the Gamesmith library, did you? Reason I ask is I started with AMOS then went to Blitz then Blitz & Asm then went to sas/c (can't remember exact but something like that) and bought Gamesmith.

    It is an optimized library for working with graphics, audio, display management, collision checking etc. Also had Devpak 3 or whatever it was called for Assembly and you could use Gamesmith from assembly too. Obviously been a long time so things are a little hazy but I still have it out in the garage... here it is. This is the manual cover & inside page showing the system overview.



    Reason I ask is I thought it was great library but I don't think I've ever seen anyone else mention it here (I have seen it mentioned on some Amiga forums where people are currently using it). Not sure if most people didn't know it existed or everyone preferred AMOS/BLITZ or jumping to pure assembly language or what.

    Since you mentioned the game was written in C I just wondered if you might have used Gamesmith or did you just write everything yourself in C?
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
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  48. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    I hate that stuff irl (people actually do this kind of thing and to me these people are... yeah). But for a game I have to say I agree with you this is a fresh concept and it will probably do well. In some ways the idea reminds me of the old Hacker game (Activision?) where people can exercise their desire to do no good in the safe environment of a game.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
  49. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    Saw this on me Twitter today.

    They funded their game in less than 12 hours.

    Another victory for innovation.



    I haven't bothered to reverse engineer their marketing other than a quick check on Twitter. They released a free demo on Steam back in June announced on Twitter and had a fair amount of retweets I guess but more importantly there were many people tweeting (I have aways disliked tweet... we are not birds... POSTING) along the lines of "just tried the free demo of #MonsterSanctuary and it is really good. Check it out for yourself here on Steam." Looks like mainly a strong grassroots effort of friends and fans on Twitter from my quick look.

    I suspect they had a fanbase built up for a while before release of that demo but do not know for sure. I can see how the game itself is able to get attention. When offering something that is really unique like this it helps a lot. It seems to combine two very popular game genres. Obviously YT livestream playthroughs such as the video above help too but I think it is the innovative combining of game genres that is the main thing here... and makes a big difference in being able to get livestreams of the game to begin with.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
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  50. PGJ

    PGJ

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    No, we did everything ourself in C and assembler. The game is 100 % assembler and the editor is mostly C, with a few assembler parts.
     
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