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[Coming Soon] SpectraGI Advanced Real Time Global Illumination For Unity from Livenda

Discussion in 'Works In Progress - Archive' started by LIVENDA, May 22, 2014.

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  1. Mauri

    Mauri

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    Send you an PM ^^

    Also: Aieth is currently developing an Asset called Jove 2.0, which aims to bring a better graphic pipeline for Unity. It looks really great and seeing SpectraGI working with Jove some day would be superb :)
     
  2. kurylo3d

    kurylo3d

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    Going to have to agree with you. I am curious if they can work together.
     
  3. kurylo3d

    kurylo3d

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    The guys over at jove are talking mad smack calling spectra vaporware lol. Prove them wrong please.
     
  4. Licarell

    Licarell

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    @kurylo3d - Dude Really... who got out the stick and started poking the bear...
     
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  5. kurylo3d

    kurylo3d

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    Motivation and pride can be beautiful things.
     
  6. KRGraphics

    KRGraphics

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    Poking the bear... I hope you are from Boston and a Bruins fan. :D

    Joking aside, I am eagerly awaiting the release of Spectra GI so I can use it in my interior scenes. And it would be a great tool to demo at an art event that is happening in my town soon.
     
  7. Licarell

    Licarell

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    Ah.. I see where your going...
     
  8. lazygunn

    lazygunn

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    Noone was remotely talking smack, it was facts, there has been absolutely 0 evidence that this thing exists, just that someone at Livenda knows how to use Adobe Aftereffects and Google image search. With some evidence and not a repeat of the ridiculous crowd teasing that came from Candela, it wouldnt be an issue would it? The word vapourware means 'there is absolutely nothing to prove it exists', which is the case
     
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  9. kurylo3d

    kurylo3d

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    Then why advertise a product that does not exist, espeacially when u have a proven track record of a product that does exist. Why give estimated release dates?
     
  10. lazygunn

    lazygunn

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    Im not going to have a discussion that reflects negatively on a product in that products thread, all i did was correct a potentially fractious comment made by yourself with the truth, to avoid negative sentiments on anyones behalf
     
  11. kurylo3d

    kurylo3d

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    Telling people they are spewing bullsh*t.. is S*** talkn... Dont know what your definition is.
     
  12. lazygunn

    lazygunn

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    Saying a fact 'There is no evidence that this exists' is saying there is no evidence that it exists, its a fact. That yourself and others are so frenzied by the merest sniff of GI in Unity that you'll be offensive to both other asset creators who can demonstrate their claims on a practical basis, and anyone using their assets on the basis of a screenshot that could have been taken from anything says a lot. Anyways, conversation is over, like everyone else, i'm hoping SpectraGI becomes available soon, or at least some evidence of its existence is produced, as it seems like it should be fantastic based on the promises made, otherwise scepticism is to be understood and not grounds to cause problems between people, thanks.
     
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  13. FogGobbler

    FogGobbler

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    Guys.please .. calm down.. it will be availabe .. soon ;-) . (I´m really missing these "soon"-posts from Livenda :) )
     
  14. hyperrodik

    hyperrodik

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    unity 5 with enlighten will be available soon lol :D
     
  15. HappyCoder84

    HappyCoder84

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    Not to let anyone down,, but looks like Unity5 enlighten is a flop,, at least for now. :(
    I just tested Unity5 beta,
    Enlighten integration: no proxy mesh option, no bounce option, point lights don`t have indirect lighting.
    uses low-res lightmap cache to update GI: low-quality GI, similiar to LPV.
    No bounce option, only has indirect lighting intensity option.
    Baking(Dynamic GI preprocessing) takes long, longer than Beast.
    Soft shadow and hard shadow quality is the same as before. No improvements whatsoever.
    Opaque shader doesn`t look good,,
    In static GI environments, you can`t have dynamic shadows.
    I tested my old forest scene to see how it performs. It`s pretty much the same,,No dynamic occlusion culling.
    It handles a huge scene a little bit better, but not by a whole lot..
    Having used all the new features, I can see why they have been delaying the launch this long.
    People who pre-ordered it will be pissed, if they release it as it is.
    I actually think Unity4 is better,,
    Anyway,,I`m looking forward to what Specra Gi can bring to the table as I`m not optimistic about whatever improvements they will make later.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2014
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  16. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    Will Enlighten be a Pro only feature ?
     
  17. Stormbreaker

    Stormbreaker

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    The dynamic GI aspect probably, lightmap baking will still be possible of course.
     
  18. FogGobbler

    FogGobbler

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    Hey Livenda-Team, how are things going on? It´s nearly end of August and no new images, information or videos? You must be in very late beta now, since it´s coming out soon, right ;-) ?. So you must have something. Just some shaggy screenshots of the UI in Unity for instance.
     
  19. Stormbreaker

    Stormbreaker

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    Yeah, thought there would have at least been some kind of video or screenshots by now if you're near release.
     
  20. kurylo3d

    kurylo3d

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    i dont even care about promo material. I just want it to use it.
     
  21. mrbdrm

    mrbdrm

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    Enlighten is useless for real time
    you can't add/remove geometry at runtime or add/remove lights.
    so even if unity 5 comes it still static GI with a workaround to fake real time GI
     
  22. kurylo3d

    kurylo3d

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    Think the purpose of enlighten is so that lights can still be dynamic. Not so much the environement. I could be wrong though since i never tried it.
     
  23. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    Do you get a performance penalty if the real time GI is activated ?

    Also the geometry wont get affected by bounced light ? Say a character passing by a lit area ? And if you cant add/remove lights, how can a moving point light cast GI ?

    This system seems very puzzling
     
  24. HappyCoder84

    HappyCoder84

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    The new Enlighten real-time GI pre-baking takes too long.
    Being that there is no option for proxy meshes for the second UV map, I think the second UV maps and proxy meshes are generated automatically under the hood. The problem is,, the process takes insanely long,,like,, at least 10 times(minimum) slower than UE`s lightmass. And after all that effort, is it worth it? No. There isn`t an option to control the number of light bouncing. Only intensity option, which is no different than just controlling the brightness of the GI.
    So,, on the surfice, it looks pretty much the same as LPV, which has only one bounce. LPV doesn`t require any pre-baking or second light UV maps.
    And, as with anything automatically generated, tons of light map seam errors appear especially when the meshes are complex. So, what you end up doing is, If you have something like a house, made of discontinuous meshes put togather, you have to divide it into several different groups of meshes to minimize the light map Issues and hope for the best.
    As it sits right now, Unity Enlighten lighting sytem is pretty much useless to me,, I`d rather use Beast, to be honest.


    Hopefully, they will imporve it so that it can at least be usable for any serious project.
     
  25. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    Thanks for the info, hopefully they can fix all that.

    The pre-baking is the worst by far for me, i have never baked anything in my game so far and i would not want GI to be something i have to bake per scene, for all the reasons you mentioned and lot more.

    I would like to have the option to have a performance hit and everything real time
     
  26. HappyCoder84

    HappyCoder84

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    For a simple mobile project, GI isn`t going to do much. Rather, it`ll only overcomplicate things, imo.
    Mobile platforms has a lot of caching up to do, in terms of graphics. Unity devs have shown a demo scene running on a high-end device, lit by englithen GI system. The problem is a game with high-end graphics like that will drain out the battery so fast that it`ll defeat the purpose of a portable mobile game in the first place.
    While mobile CPU and GPU have improved quite a lot, the battery technology has stayed the same,,pretty much.
    So, if you are aiming for the mobile games market, there is no reason to have dynamic GI since it puts more strain on the CPU, no matter what.
    Had Unity devs done a good job on integrating Enlighten, I would actually consider using it.
    I think Unity is trying to get some market share in the high-end games market.
    They can`t beat UE or CE for bells and whistles..
    When I heard they were going to adopt PBS workflow,I was surprised because for a relatively big scene with lots of stuff happening, Unity was already pretty slow.
    PBS, no matter how you optimize it, tends to be more expensive.

    I`ve heard some Unity devs saying "It`s not the engine`s fault, it`s your fault", "Performance depends on your coding skills". Part of it is true. But performance has a lot to do with how the engine itself, made of multi-million codes, was built.
    Too many third-party tools usually result in messier codes and poor performance, which is the case for Unity now.

    How the rendering part works with the rest of the system(animation, AI, sound,,) and how the memory management works for tens of thousands of sub-systems and many more that I can`t list here play a great role in what makes a performant game engine.

    By their(some Unity people) logic, every game engine will be pretty much the same on performance. Ease of use comes short, if you are making a large game with a complex system. C++ is not a rocket science. It`s difficult,, yes. But in the end, you are going to want to use it.

    CE is no threat to Unity since it`s only aiming for high-end games market. But UE4, on the other hand,, will most likely take over the mobile games throne from Unity. I think it`s easier to use than Unity. Give it a try.^^

    Untold Games’ jump from Unity to Unreal Engine 4 comes shortly after CCP also publicly announced it would be making the same switch for its VR title Eve: Valkyrie.

    Btw, I`m using CE for my outdoor game. But, for a mobile project, I`d choose UE4 over CE.
    Unity has to step it up(lowering the monthly fee,,etc).
     
  27. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    I use Unity with amazing results in outdoors, mainly because my game is 2.5D i guess, so i dont plan to change. Especially since many of the RPG features are based on a Unity asset (ORK).

    The problem with Unreal is that i feel like i would have to reinvent the wheel in a million things and make stuff from scratch that could delay my project maybe years even.

    At a later point i may have a look at UE4 though, seems to be gaining a lot of ground
     
  28. kurylo3d

    kurylo3d

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    the way spectragi looks is pretty much going to be the determining factor on wether i stick with unity. At least thats what it seems like.
     
  29. JecoGames

    JecoGames

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    Why? With Unity 5 Unreal Engine has nothing on Unity and Unity's Global illumination is better anyways,also Unity is easier to develop with and easier to port to multiple platforms.
     
  30. Licarell

    Licarell

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    @LIVENDA Please post some updates before this thread turns into another Unity/UE4 pissing match... PLEASE!!

    This is the kinda crap that happens when developers go quiet..... geeze...
     
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  31. FogGobbler

    FogGobbler

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    Yep. I can understand that development takes time and quality takes time, but please, dear Livenda Team, your community management is .. well .. not good. Communicate with us..we´re your potential customers, don´t forget :-/
     
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  32. Pulov

    Pulov

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    If the thing is so bloody atm it might worth anouncing an x month delay and go silent instead of this getting into what is starting to be.
     
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  33. Thiago-Crawford

    Thiago-Crawford

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    Any updates for the public Livenda?
     
  34. hyperrodik

    hyperrodik

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    how good is enlighten for static objects? as I need it for arch walk troughs, most of them is in an open world like street, golf field, valley... interior as well
     
  35. Stormbreaker

    Stormbreaker

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    It works fine on static objects, if it didn't the product would be quite pointless.
     
  36. kurylo3d

    kurylo3d

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    From what I have been reading, i dont have a lot of confidence in unitys gi just yet. But we will see. Plus im looking for something dynamic like this is offering. Instead of having to bake things.
     
  37. LIVENDA

    LIVENDA

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    Hello Everyone,

    Starting Monday we will be progressively releasing further details such as videos, technical specs, workflow info, screenshots, initial version release date and more. Spectra GI is a total solution, which means it comprises of 'all ' required and relevant components for high quality dynamic Global Illumination based Lighting.

    Cheers and have a great weekend!
    Livenda
     
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  38. kurylo3d

    kurylo3d

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    My occulus rift dev kit 2 comes on thursday. I am so ready to play with this.
     
  39. JecoGames

    JecoGames

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    Unity 5's GI is partly realtime, static objects receive and contribute to the global illumination but dynamic objects only receive,lights are completely dynamic. In comparison with ue4's light propagation volumes, it depends on what you are using it for,ue4's solution is fully dynamic for all types of game objects and even has low resolution dynamic specular,but, it has major light leaking issues for indoor scenes and cant handle more than a few lights until it becomes too expensive. Enlightens GI is higher quality(no specular,but cubemaps and screen space reflections can easily be used) and can use an almost infinite number of light sources,Enlighten has also been tried and tested in AAA games such as Battlefield 3+4.
     
  40. kurylo3d

    kurylo3d

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    Enlighten has to be baked, and does have trouble with extreme light changes. For example a lightning flash. This is what i am told.
     
  41. blueivy

    blueivy

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  42. Thiago-Crawford

    Thiago-Crawford

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    Looking forward to it :D
     
  43. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    This is why work in progress Beta isn't out yet. Plus the above poster clearly doesn't understand what he's doing.
     
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  44. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    Very nice, i cant wait to see what will be possible with this system.

    The fact that is not DX11 only is by far and away the best feature for my game. I am not yet sure where i will be using this system, where my GI Proxy and where the new Enligten, but i will be definitly using all three in the end :)

    I assume this will also be 100% compatible with Candela SSR module also ?
     
  45. JecoGames

    JecoGames

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    Well according to livenda,spectra has some baking as well. Lets be realistic here,we just dont have the hardware yet to have fully dynamic pixel perfect,diffuse and specular global illumination without any baking being involved. If your involved in game dev and are complaining about baking maybe you shoudnt be making games;) The majority of AAA games global illumination solutions include baking e.g far cry 3,Assassins creed 4, battlefield 4, the division and many others,its just the way game dev is right now.
     
  46. kurylo3d

    kurylo3d

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    Well regaurdless this stuff will be something to try.
     
  47. Vagabond_

    Vagabond_

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    If you haven't yet, just check this video about GI in Unity 5...

    .

    As for SpectraGI i am super optimist. My point is if you are a good programmer you can always find a "hard" but efficient way to cheat without the user can even notice. And even Livenda says nothing yet i guess they will surprise us and i'm patiently waiting :)
     
  48. Pulov

    Pulov

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    I really dont care baking stuff, I've been baking stuff all my live, specially related to lighting... so some kind of baking wont hurt at all if the results are so neat as expected. I only hope that they will find some tricks for the close to camera dynamic objets to be correctly lit.
     
  49. mrbdrm

    mrbdrm

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    Backing mean that there is a huge limit to real time GI capability's.
    we are done with "Fake" effects.
     
  50. JecoGames

    JecoGames

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    Well games are still being faked and will continue to be faked for years to come! Even with 2 titan z's we don't have enough power to do completely accurate non faked real time graphics.
     
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