[Coming Soon] SpectraGI Advanced Real Time Global Illumination For Unity from Livenda

Emphasis mine...

...but their 'teaser' is all of these things I have in bold from your quote Thiago. That pool room? It's utterly perfect, so what exactly were we seeing three months ago that isn't ready now? I believe this is where people are coming from with the latest comments regarding just how far along the software is.

After seeing Enlighten, I'm very hopeful and very excited for this to be the real deal.

 

There isn't really any working RealTimeGI solution out there for Unity and most of the commercial engines. And this is really something big. That's why i think that, if Livenda guys are close enough, they are now under great pressure while trying to polish their product and trying to keep up our attention which is happening in some degree . Just let's assume they are not professional marketing strategists which led to many sleepless nights and pure white F5 keys. And even though there is only one video for now, it is so much impressive. I have not seen graphics quality like this in any Unity game out there.
I'll bet that before the end of the month we will have SpectraGI imported in our projects very brave huh

 

Very.

(...but I like your optimism!)

 

That is where the problem comes, if the system shown in this video was great in performance, then it could easilly be shown and even released back then.

The question is why it has not been shown yet and is a reason to worry since it looked too good to be true

Knowing Livenda though from their SSRR solution, they are more likely to deliver somethign great than not

 

Because i like to bet, i will bet on - some important changes or important new features "in the last minute" because i've seen a lot of this to happen. And the silence i guess is because of the tones of questions that will follow about what works how (which is probably still under some clarification process) and the disappointment you gonna get when they announce а delay. Better keep tracking the thread instead of coming back in a month But i really don't know, just trying to find reasonable explanation. If i'm right that's OK for Livenda because anyway the negativity will be gone once the tool is released if it's what we expect to be!

 

I dont think there is negativity, just eager anticipation which is not helped by the coming soon posts.

Even if the system is not like in the initial video, i am positive will be something great to use in my game in the end. The fast area lights are already a very nice touch too.

 

I'll go to buy a ton of Beer to keep myself busy while waiting. If someone wants to join please be my guests

 

I dont think i could handle that much beer

 

So.... coming up to mid-September and still no images/videos

 

If you are going to make a promo video,, plz don`t put in any fanycy lines like,, "let there be light",,or theme music or sound effects,,
Nobody cares how cool the video looks.. Just show us something that actually moves. Something to keep people interested.

 

Personally I think they announced too early, my guess is that they've been working on this for quite some time, racing Unity 5's release. First to market gets the glory — and the customers. Pressure can make diamonds but it can also burst pipes.

Any news would be good news : )

 

Funny how I feel like I`ve made friends with some people in the community, which I rarely visit..
Thx for helping me make friends Livenda,,( no sarcasm intended,, I really mean it

 

nasos, there is already a big delay. There isn't any need to announce anything. lol

I mean first i hear august... then end of august... we are now 2 weeks past the end of august if u hadnt noticed

 

I guess you have a point , a very good one too

 

465 posts ( this one included ) on a thread about gi that contains a nice video showcasing after effects and one video showcasing area lights..From these 465 posts 24 were posted by the OP and none of them has any clear info with proof about the title advertised product.
I would totally understand this if the thread was on Livenda's personal forum or even in the Work In Progress subthread of the unity's one.

#Hyped marketing at its best use!

I cant imagine what people would say if EA did that

 

I'll be honest with you. The area lights alone are worth it lol...

 

I wish they released these as a start, i could use them with the GI Proxy system and get smoother results when lights come near surfaces (if the source can be disabled of course)

Is it possible to disable the area light source btw ? Like have all the effects of a cube light without showing the emission source cube. That would be extremely useful.

 

Joachim Holmér is adding Area Lights to the next release of Shader Forge —

Goto the 42-minute mark to see the results.

Not really sure on his time frame but I'd hazard a guess that it will be out before Spectra ...

 

So cool, that is amazing info, plus i have Forge and works in Unity Free too so i can test it as soon as it hits the store

 

Area lights that support pbr materials are nothing new..
We already have area light apps.
Other area light devs will put out their solution that works well with unity5's reflection probes by the time unity5 is out.
You can think of pbr as an advanced phong or blinn shader,,
Shame no gi-related videos has been posted yet...
They really should've thought this through.
Btw, shader forge is one of my favorite unity apps.
One of the few apps that are actually useful.

 

Hey Livenda,

Quick question about your system and integration. Just wondering how long it would take to witch over to spectra gi from just standard unity. Would we have to change our scenes one by one to use spectra gi, or could we just default Unity to use spectra gi with the same settings for every scene. I really just wondering how fast and easy this asset will be to use, and if you could tell us how much of a performance hit we will take using it, that would be awesome! Maybe even a comparison, as much as candella ssrr? Or maybe twice the amount? just a guess even would be nice

Cheers and thanks

 

Yeah it's quite annoying, everyone is here to see the GI but they keep releasing videos about area lights, a feature which is already available in other assets and the majority don't care about SpectraGI, not SpectraAreaLights

 

DEAR LIVENDA!

Im a happy Customer at Candela .
And ... i would like to know the price of SPECTRAGI. So i can Start my Savings .

First of all let me congratulate you for the Candela Release It was a Really Ground Breaking Asset.

For me SPECTRA GI is just the One Year After Proper Everyday worked out Evolution on a very amazing Revolutionary Screen Space based all types of calculations special Algorithm .
I'm Proud to be your Customer and Supporter since your first developments.

And I hope as in the amazing Candela case With SPECTRA you can also deliver a Truly Integrated Revolutionary Product Extendable With SDK Partnerships with all the rest of the so many Awesome Fellow Developers and amazing Developments Ecosystems done monthly Around here .

Livenda Team : Wish you Guys Best of Luck.: And Keep cool as ! You Rule !

Thank you.

David.

ALUNBRA.
Games Studio

Spoiler: THE LIVENDA TEAM 10 COMMITMENTS.

As Customer of Livenda Team Products ...

And used to their usual quality in whatever they do ..
I have to say i dont really eager this release be rushed at all .

Candela SSR Been a Major Helper for us to achieve Realistic Looks that with Some tweaks go almost near Gi Just with Reflections. Its also amazing how the method you used was so much extraordinary compatible with all kinds of Major assets, Shaderforge, Skyshop, Alloy, Even works in Unity 5 ... which is unbelievable.

I also Achieved to Mix Candela Very Successfully with Ckaller Voxels DynamicGi ...
And i Didn't not tested with Jove2 Yet but i'm sure that it will be also easy to get compatibility.

As far as i see, SPECTRA Gi / And TOTAL REFLECTIONS PBR ... is nothing but the continuation of the same engineering Achievement that was Candela. So i Believe that SPECTRAGI as another ScreenSpace Percentage Feeded Calculations for so many severall Effects and methods it will Have the Same Flexibility and sure exact same optimized performance That CANDELA Has .

And im staggering as everyone to see some pretty results ...

( That i'm pretty sure you and your team are taking longer to ensure those those nothing less "amazing results" to "be convincing" to everyone, even if that means developing in most possible secret , That i also Understand that with such a competitive market of developers in Unity and especially Unreal, whatever you will show here must be "litle" but good and concentrated enough to Give you "sales" and still "not inspire" the competition that much "before you release" ... )

In all this Realistic Situations as a developer , Im not Actually Eagering for the Simple "Another Gi" Solution .

But for the "Complete Integrated Next Gen Graphics" Product After Release that im Expecting it could Be Developed With this Features And Setup im personally Wishing As Primary based in this Features. Out of SPECTRAGI To Within its 1.1 Cycle After Release to Become :

---------------

THE LIVENDA TEAM CUSTOMER PRODUCT CARE 10 COMMITMENTS.
For the NExt 1 Year And Half of developments

0 - Full Integration with Unity 5, So we can Use SPECTRAGI features With Enlighten.

1 - To become Not just a Realtime "Gi Lightning Solution" - But a "Volumetric Lightning" Solution.

2 - Not just a Lightning / Illumination Setup, But a "Volumetric Infinite Soft SHadows Setup"

3 - To Have Direct Compatibility With Candela . To Have Improvements over Candela With High Quality Normalized Ssr Extra "True" Physical Based Screen Space Ambient & Shader Occlusion Setups.

4 - To Extend the Concept of "Volumetric Colored Area lights Volumes" with the Inverse "Volumetric Colored Area Shadows Volumes" To allow us Artistic Direction over the Light & SHadow Projection Setup.

5 - Its Physical Based Shader System be also Calculated Volumetricaly, with GI Lightning for Physical Based Effects as Subsurface Scattering & Skin & Rubber Beside be able to Setup at a Shader Base "Default Surface Types" With full Spectrum definition of what a Physical Based Shader that could act realisticaly as a volume surface type not dependable "On bitmaps" at all to look like a certain type of surface and ... should be Using not just the Best Software Pipelines as Substance Designer and painter, as well picking on Very not much spoken but extremely necessary workflows for extra Physical based properties that can take in account beside the normal PBR also Convexity Cavity Occlusion Roughness, Relief, Microsurfacing, Volume, As well Do Proper PBS Scattered Real-time Environment Light Wrapping over the shaders surface . http://goo.gl/B697Pu

6 - This Physical based Shaders Of SpectraGi Should be able to Mix in 1 shader Several Properties and several types of shaders in 1 Metallic and non Metallic and porous and Subsurface Surfaces defined by SubShader Masks , So we can mix Properly up to 3 or 4 Types of material with Physical Based Material Masks As Unreal, or As Atonov SHaders Suite Here in unity for example ...

7 - The SPECTRA Should be a Pack of Features That Mix from "Realistic Volumetric Skies" That Interact from the Skies to The Oceans to Volumetric Gi SHading Over Particles & "Global Gi Volume Scatering" Mediums as Fog as well true Volumetric Medium Primitives As Good as "Jove 2" / And that Because one of the highlights of "Jove 2" is to Enable a Pure Sense of "Air Particles Density" That Interact from the Atmosphere to the Physical based Shaders look, Which gives that Perfect " 3D More Realistic Spacial Volume Feeling" that then must be very well "lightwraped" Over The Physical Based Shaders Pipeline. That Must React to the "Volumetric particles density" of the Air That We also Must be able to "Control More Artistically" With "Light Scattering volume Primitives" Were for example if you wish that certain Room or Area become more "foggy", with some "particle or Procedural noise volumetric primitive" The Volumetric Light Rays of that Region Act and Scatter over the Geometries in a Different Shading lightwraping way than if the Atmosphere at that point was more Clean or not ...
This is QUite a "hack" a Emulation of Reality, but that "jove2" Development "tries to achieve it", with many of this ingredients that are not so bad emulated for a System that Doenst even Have GI, What proves once more that GI is just one Single Aspect. And like 25% of the Big Picture of a Next Gen Game... ( ... inspite to achieve all this "next Gen CryEngine like look" also comes with a big calculation cost : Jove 2 Webplayer & Exe Full Demos Did stutter and not Run with more than 3, to 5 frames per second in my Geforçe 570 "Tipical Poor Gamer usage Cheap card " ) And this extremely low frame rates are Because There are "Too many Dx11 Elements being thrown and calculated at same time there for a entire scene .. and those Jove examples were not Full Levels or 2% of it Whatsoever ... Results in a legacy "World Based Calculations" system as Jove can become high candy and good for Static Architecture Previsualization ( But not that much suitable for a high over crowded full of dynamic meshes / particles / fx next gen type of intensity game environment ( like Assassins creeds and suchs ) ... that are more and more usual this days ) ... The best method to serve whatever More Advanced calculations are Exactly as Candela and LIVENDA Team does it rationated on a proper Pixel Screen "Percentage" Camera Ray lenght to make Calculations Cuted to What we are seeing for a best type of optimization ...)
That i'm sure as a proper Evolution of CANDELA: ScreenSpace Calculations "Method" this SPECTRAGI will sure be able Give us "in Screenspace" all that Some Developments as Jove, CryEngine, Unreal, and and Some more, Have to Calculate on Dx11 in a World base ... Crys Caller DynamicGi Voxels Method for example Were Calculated by a Expanded Grid "Area" Surounding the Camera , More Close to the camera More Voxels better calculations and Far Away Sparser Calculations ... Joining this to Screen Percentage RayCasting, There is Nothing that can Beat it in performance ... And this is how i Envision the Core of SPECTRAGI. A Mix of Sparse Voxel Gi Calculations Based on Distance to camera, With Occlusion Culling With ScreenSpace Methods already presented in CANDELA to Calculate Global Illumination .

8 - On overall i think LIVENDA is Heading the Best Way for UNITY Type of "Optimized all purposes" Industry ... And i would like to Request Candela Developers to not Put too much the eyes on what "its at the moment" being done in "Unity" ecosystem, But go further and deeply look at "Unity With other Engines Competition", And i think LIVENDA Team Are perfectly able to slowly Bring us with CANDELA, SPECTRAGI, NEPHLIN Systems Something that could put Unity Side by Site with UNREAL ENGINE or CRYENGINE .
And i Do Believe that As Developers LIVENDA is Capable of even trow some very good and advanced surprises to the scene ...
But Obviously not So soon and never so much Alone as they today are heading.

9 - In this Case i think For all our Sake LIVENDA Should Seriously Also Target The UNREAL ENGINE Market, With their Systems, So that they could Just make "some more money" to Sponsor a Bigger Development in what they are trying to do.

10 - But LIVENDA team they Also Should Target Other UNITY Developers here for PARTNERSHIPS.
And that is a fundamental key for Success. Its Extremely Important : Because Unity Definition is "UNITY" And is what make us in this Growing Unified united Developers Ecosystem Alternatively "Better".

Therefore: Total Compatibility of SPECTRAGI with Packages as *By Importance Order as :

- ShaderForge Interaction and Total Compatibility of all SPECTRA shader features.
( That Integration of Shaderforge With Livenda PBS/PBR Dynamic Lightning Pipeline Is something extremely important to be delivered first So to Allow Users to make Their own Shaders and not be stuck by the usual "lack of Shader features qualities" This is a Big Win/win ... See the Case of Skyshop & SHaderforge Nodes Interaction... Now imagine That. A lot more, and with Dynamic lightning PBR Features in Realtime. That you can make your own Nodebased shaders even ... It will open LIVENDA PBR SHaders Pipeline To Infinity ... Nuff said about that ...)

- Integration with Relief Terrain Pack .
( Because no one will ever do such a evolved Terrain Shader System )

- Sky Shop Integration
( Because Users should be able to Bake SPECTRAGI environments to as much evolved low Specs System that even works in mobiles as Sky-shop. )

- PlayMaker Integration
( To Allow Easy Programmable Environment Seasons Lightning Control, Fx , Artistic Lightning Logic etc .. )

- True Sky - Volumetric Skies Integration ...
( Because there is no better or more realistic Sky Systems for unity and Unreal )

- Interaction with The best Particles Physics and Fracturing & Volumetric Water, fx & dynamic Sky Packages As Unistorm Tenkoku ...
( That as amazing they are Should integrate as Well good enough to Integrate in SPECTRAGI Light Contribution Equations ) ...

And this is SOmething that Only WIth Unity Of many Developers over a Open Plugins & Extensions SDK Open Framework Pipeline Delivered from SPECTRAGI We can have .

----------


For this Whole Next year . Those are my Best 10 Wishes for The LIVENDA 3 Main PRODUCTS SETUP That for me as customer Should be :

- SPECTRAGI.
( GI & SHADERS Package )

- CANDELA
( SSScreenFx & Total Reflections & IBl Package )

- NEPHLIN
( Mass & Light 3d volumetric Scatering Volumes & Liquids & Participating Media Package )

---

As a Already Owning some LIVENDA products since its first weeks here...

I would Wish Also that we could have as "Customers of One of those 3 packages"
We Could also have "Bundle Discounts" ... "50% off in bundle promos" Like "Sector Complete Team does ... for whoever already owns A LIVENDA Product ...

---

On Overall !

May We all find ourselfs here At same time September 2015 Next Year ..
And may we find all those LIVENDA : 10 Commitments above Done .

And i know that is a thing In a Product that only Next 1 to 2 years will bring all that.
Of course never alone. WIth the open Help & support of all our United Fellow Developers Around.

---

So DEAR LIVENDA TEAM .
Please write all those 10 Product Quality / Feature Commitments Above .

Take your Time and please "dont rush it".​

We all really want all those things i mentioned above.
But Step by Step and Together with UNITY Is how we do it Properly and better for all.

Hope my comment had helped and enlightened over your future developments somehow.

THANKS SO MUCH For listening.

My very Best Regards.


DAVID COOPER
ALUNBRA STUDIO

----

 

Jesus Christ... thanks for putting my OCD in perspective :-D *goes back to writing 70 page email to Unity about Enlighten*

 

^Hahahaha...

 

@ALUNBRA

Y̶o̶u̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶u̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶a̶l̶m̶o̶s̶t̶ ̶4̶ ̶y̶e̶a̶r̶ ̶o̶l̶d̶ ̶m̶i̶d̶-̶r̶a̶n̶g̶e̶ ̶v̶i̶d̶e̶o̶ ̶c̶a̶r̶d̶,̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶c̶o̶u̶r̶s̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶g̶o̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶r̶u̶n̶ ̶v̶e̶r̶y̶ ̶w̶e̶l̶l̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶w̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶I̶ ̶a̶s̶s̶u̶m̶e̶ ̶w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶h̶i̶g̶h̶ ̶s̶e̶t̶t̶i̶n̶g̶s̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶d̶e̶m̶o̶s̶.̶ (EDIT: apparently it should run better than this, the developer uses as 560). I "only" get 130fps with all features turned on at 2560x1440 on my Radeon R9 290, if I got any more than that I would say it's not pushing hard enough. To get a playable framerate on an old card you would have to disable / turn down some settings as well as keeping a sane screen resolution.

Why do you say it's not suitable for next gen? Deferred rendering, by design, has a "fairly" static cost as far as scene complexity is concerned, however it is screen resolution sensitive. You are going to run into a severe bandwidth bottleneck if you try to run at a high screen resolution on an old card due to it's much larger G-Buffer.

Anyway, although I eagerly await what Livenda have to show just like any graphics product, I put my faith in products that actually exist and I can use today.

 

Completely agree and second that. I have been using Jove for a relatively short time, however in all my tests it has stood out and offered good overall performance values. I also agree that area lights coming with Shader Forge will be amazing as they would give the user the flexibility to create individualized shaders. That being said, I think its better to not compare other plugins here at this point as Livenda has not yet released any information regarding their product and its not fair either to them or to the other developers.

Looking at the response this thread is getting I am amazed that not many developing studios have snatched the opportunity to create their own versions of GI although seeing the results with Enlighten I think Unity might close the loop for good. I know that there were a few iterations done previously and were probably stopped because of the overhead on a single developer. My suggestion to the community would be to come together and create an open source system where everyone contributes and makes a useful plugin (something that can work with and expand Enlighten) rather than having to keep waiting for eons for someone to release it.

 

For next Demos I would love to See LIVENDA Testing SPECTRAGI
On a "Intel HD Graphics 4000" Integrated chipset ...

That is the most used Graphic Card Installed worldwide in most Gamers Pcs
... and statistically is 10x slower than a Geforçe 500/600 series .

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/

I Seriously think that "we users" must compare solutions as are we that are spending money on it.

I also target in Making real Video Games, not just playing and testing with some Pretty Dx11 Demo Features.

To boost Real production Environments i also think Developers should make their solutions and features integrated with each others over several others products and absolutely not break minimally or much less completely breaking the usual "UNITY 5" Common Pipeline.

For me a solution that have more features Integrated is a best solution.
Therefore the solution that softly integrates more features of other products and doesn't break any other extensions usage is a winner.

Best Regards.


David Cooper
ALUNBRA Games

Spoiler: APPLYING HARDWARE EQUATIONS INTO REALISTIC GAME DEVELOPMENTS

I think Most People Inside this "Closed Indie Ambient" forget that we are Developing "Games".
And those games must be fully featured but also demand Customer Hardware Studies to be feasible, and that's something that not just us "Users" But also Developers should think more seriously and straightforwardly.

Something that depends so much heavily on graphic cards Is as easy to see and analyze by the charts on "Worldwide what are the most graphic cards used".

And with that on the Board. Make our tests in the Actual "Most used Worldwide hardware setup" if the "Graphic Solution we want to use in our game" Works or not on the most installed Graphics Card "Presently".


With that in mind.

------------------
MY / AND MY STUDIO's JOVE2 REVIEW:

I really did had a big hard disappointment when i tested JOVE2 in one of those Most Used Cards. Geforce 570. I also become very disappointed at the usual JOVE2 Team interventions.
And i know whats coming next will be hard for some people to Swallow. But its my Reality and my experience here.

Personally in what "i really think", for myself without whatsoever , "Friendships influences" over parties. For my Particular needs of my own production : And i will try to explain largely why ...

____
For Real Game Development and "at the current status":
SPECTRA GI Solutions Are - for me - At my sight - "Better" than JOVE2.

And still ...

I would sure love to see JOVE Mature as a Near CryENgine/UDK DX11 Powered up Graphics Solution...

And I would love to have integration of CANDELA & SPECTRA Solutions With JOVE2. Also.

As JOVE2 "as today" is already a very good Solution for Having Near CRYENGINE Type of graphics feeling otherwise very dificult to be achieved in Unity4.
Which is very good and fine for architectural and standalone demos ... .

And i hope to see that "evolution" happening soon or latter.

But as far as i can think to be "game production ready" And people be able to do "actual games" with it ...
JOVE2 Will have to "Make bridges" and Stop the Breaking of the Integration with all others products in unity for that better workflows for us all. That "at this stage" It doesn't have.

It will be very hard for a serious Game developer to actually do a game if extensions you most use in your pipeline "don't fit completely" in a new rendering path.

Then seriously the philosophy of "Others must make integration with my product not me with others" is surely not a good way of developing anything.

Compatibility efforts and open bridges for others plug their content into our pipeline must be ensured for productivity without lags be possible for everyone .

As far as i see for me Jove 2 is a Too early development made by a very special very skilled very tenacious very bright amazing young developer that have a development that "just come out of university" and is in the stages of making experiences with all possible DX11 integration's merging them in one very unique pipeline. That is good.

But Also trying to go too much further "Unity boundaries" also Breaks completely the ( common Unity workflow With other extensions) So as far as i can see "much beyond all experiments" Jove 2 needs to have full compatibility with all every UNITY 5 Features as well have complete integration possible with Major Asset Store Programs Packages to be able to be really at a minimum " Game Production ready".

Just for example my team requested integration of Jove since its version 1 with Shaderforge.
With Jove 1 that did not happen, with Jove 2 That maybe will never happen.

And I'm not Seeing ever ( in the near future ) one be able to Integrate JOVE 2 with the extensions i love most as Latest UNISTORM or RELIEF TERRAIN PACK or ALLOY or SHADERFORGE or SKYSHOP or any other Most Usage Usual Packages ..

So if i want to use any other packages that work with UNITY 4 That at the end of the day Make my production to have more value. It will be alot more complicated and hard in terms of time and investment to do it with JOVE.

Wile im lingering that with SPECTRAGI - LIVENDA Team
As usual in their product Allows compatibility to do all that and more ...

And seriously the fact that we got 3 to 5 frames per second in all "Jove" builds in a Geforçe 570 is no joke about its "current status". For me ...

Those are my "Personal" Reasons to Chose the SUpport of CANDELA and SPECTRA
And not chose the support of Jove over my production.

Simply Because i would have to ReWrite all my Production to a "new rendering path".
That is not the Same "Path" that UNITY5 and all other developers are Right now "Globally" Going for.

__
Of course that if JOVE developers would make some more healthy efforts in Achieve "Partnerships" with other developers, making Open Bridges for a lot Major Products to Work with Its solution instead ... Sure JOVE would be in the equation of my Production "Otherwise".

But not now. I Prefer therefore LIVENDA SPECTRAGI and all their Upcoming Pipeline for all those "very personal" but truly Unbiased serious reasons above.

Again those are "my reasons". In My Production.
And Reasons all everyone according their production needs have their own.
---

But one thing is Universal and sure :

That is the Hardware equations over a Realistic Game Development.

As far as i see.

Any graphics development that do not work in a Geforçe 570 is not suitable for games.

( Because they are the very most cheap graphic cards, Geforçe 500 and 600 line are therefore the most buyed Graphic cards in the gamers market . You just need to check Steam Hardware status : Geforce 500/600 They come right after the most used "installed" Graphic cards for games that is "Intel HD 4000" which is statistically 10x slower than a Geforçe 570/600 )

So if you want to Target the Actual games Market realistic you must do it Based on the worldwide Gamers Hardware status

http://stats.unity3d.com/web/gpu.html
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/

And what those surveys say to me is Basically that :

75% of the Consumer graphic Cards Run DX11 Features.
BUT If your Game or Solution doesn't work with Decent Frame per second on a Common "Intel HD Graphics 4000" Integrated chipset .. therefore its not fit able for realistic game production.

____
In this case if you want to stress test SPECTRAGI in a real "gamer environment"
Do it And SHOW US Its performance on a "Intel HD Graphics 4000" Integrated shipset ...

I would love to See LIVENDA Doing that .


Most of us developers have greater machines to run 3dsmax maya etc .

But i seriously advice you to have a Spare Pc with a "Intel HD Graphics 4000" Integrated shipset to test in that environment Your Games / As well to test any Graphics solution that you plan to adapt to your games.


This is Obviously a Personal Perspective of what i do on my studio and my production.
Perspective according its position to the horizon everyone got its own.

Thanks for listening, and for the interest in this subjects.


David Cooper
ALUNBRA Games

 

@ALUNBRA
I kindly request you to stop spreading misinformation. To start with, referring to me as very young implies I am 15. No idea why you would think I am out of University, I plan on studying for at least another 2-3 years. Also, Jove is not "breaking integration" with other products. Due to the nature of what Jove is, I cannot integrate other products into Jove, 99% of the work lies with the other developers. For me to integrate their products would require a complete rewrite of their stuff. And to be frank, there is little point for several of the plugins you list to support Jove, why would you port a physically based shader to a physically based rendering pipeline? Why IBL to something that has deeply integrated IBL?

I have no idea what you are on about 3-5 fps on a Geforce 570. The machine I am developing on runs a Geforce 560, and I have never experienced poor frame rates. I even spoke to a guy who ran a Jove demo on his Windows tablet at 20fps.

Basically, please stop talking like you are somehow affiliated with me or Jove, or that you have been a part of the development process.

 

@Aieth I don't think that guy knows much of what he's talking about I wouldn't waste your time. He reminds me of the old account @SOULSSAGA who would go around posting nonsense just like that.

 

I'd go as far as to say he is the same person.

On the subject of the thread I'm inclined to agree with @moure - what is even being discussed there?

I'd understand if this thread was in Unity Gossip or on some general purpose board like polycount.com, but this is assets and asset store section, and the asset in question (GI) was not showcased even once. I understand the hype and desire for some sort of GI solution, but by god, this thread seems to be dedicated exclusively to "I like the idea of having GI", "I'd like this and that to happen" and "existing solutions from triple-A developers are crap, this will surely blow them all out of the water" sorts of posts, with continued absence of any information on the asset in question.

 

I did expanded my Spoiler Personal Comment about Jove Status
... to a "Personal Review of Jove 2 Possibilities" comparing it to SPECTRAGI.

And on that personal review, without efforting too much i explain what are me and my team Professional reasons for Choosing CANDELA + SPECTRA over the other Indie Over "HippedWare" Mentioned Solutions.

I do Sincerely Hope CANDELA & SPECTRA & NEPHILIN Are also Ported to UNREAL ENGINE Sooner.

And IF Jove 2 Would be Able to ever be Ported over Unreal Engine ... it would be the greatest surprise of my life.

That Said.

Best Regards.

David Cooper.
ALUNBRA STUDIO​

 

.... uh.... why should it...?

 

Thinking about Spectra... I wonder how it will react to skinned meshes and light probes... can't wait to see this process.

 

Seriously,if you want people to take your points seriously/understand them please learn how to form a legible sentence. Half of your problems you listed about Jove are nonexistent. Personally I'll wait till both products are in a finished state till making a judgement on either.

 

Alumbra is SOULSAGA and that other guy (he has conversations with himself), ignore everything he says, don't let a thread about a product become a trollfest. I'm quite sure why he's taking this angle

EDIT: i've just had to put someone on ignore for the first time since starting to use this forum, which is quite some time, i think i recommend others do too

 

Exactly You reached the point i wanted: Why Should ?

And the answer is that It should not.
Jove as Software Solution cannot bring any improvements over a Engine as UNREAL 4​

In Otherwise:

Candela , Nephilin , Spectra - Are Advanced Improvements in Game Science
That Can Fit as real great "Improvements" Even over a Extremely Powerful Engine as Unreal 4
Engine That has "everything" that Unity 5 at the current status Should.

That is the Professional Difference between the Team And company that is Developing Candela & SPectra & Nephilin . LIVENDA TEAM They are real professionals that bring something realy new to this industry

That is the Professional Difference also Between Solutions as Terrain&World Composer & Sector Complete & others Really amazing Great Extensions that Exist in Unity, That Should also be Ported over Unreal , Because their Qualities Can put Something Extremely Useful in the hands of game developers no matter its engine.

--

David.

Spoiler: ABOUT THIS COMMUNITY MEMBERS STATUS

That Said ( and all that said ) I'm not going to post again in this thread in its current status.
Because it have a lot of too much convoluted unproductive people that don't have better to do and like to troll and harass and talk too much in forums just flaming "Against Each others" instead of doing what they should that is "Professional Development".

And its Quite a Shame to See a whole Cool product Like Jove Have a Developer That just have shown once more in this thread that Is simply too aggressive in its development in its way to approx people, that doesn't care of other developers partnerships... And simply Arrogantly Doesn't Measure the Bad Ambient that Him and its Many Always the Same friends "troop" are doing to the community.

BEST REGARDS

David Cooper
ALUNBRA Studio

 

For this thread to have any real relevance Livenda need to post something more than broken promises. There will always be speculation and gossip around vague promises.

This is Livenda's thread and they need to take ownership of it, rather than telling us what we can expect — show us. Put the doubters to rest and silence the rumours.

Come on — give a dog a bone.

 

Round and round it goes... where it stops... nobody knows....

@lazygunn - I did as well... I rolled my eyes so many times I almost went cross-eyed!

 

Haha, I was thinking thinking that yesterday. Could it really be? Has SOULSSAGA returned to us in one of his many forms?

@lazygunn , thanks missed your post before, think I will do the same.

Oh and also just to put some "information" of his in perspective, Intel HD 4000 might have the largest share of a single chip but I just did a rough calculation using the Steam hardware survey and roughly 65% of the 72% share of DX11 GPU's are faster and what I would call capable cards. I didn't add anything else in the age bracket. Basing stats off a single chip is rather stupid without looking at the whole picture.

 

Hey Livenda Any news? Updates?

 

Requesting that what is clearly a solution for high-end graphics support a crappy chipset is absurd. Would you ask that Crysis 3 run on an HD 4000 with all of the fancy graphics features? No, because that would be absurd.

 

Soon, very soon

 

I really like Intel HD4000 - it is the really cool graphics adapter... as a GAMER it gives me the opportunity to:
- run GTA 4 at 15 FPS...
- see colors on screen
- read the news on internet...
and i really believe that Intel will keep the lead for a long time...

 

Exactly thats why its good idea for Livenda to get GI working on it. If it doesnt work on HD4000 we dont want it.

Jokeing aside it was bad idea for me to check this thread so early, i refresh it probably 20 times a day to check that special video poping up

 

Its sad, but so do I. I wish they would stop telling something was coming at so and so time only to not deliver and not show up.

 

( Im Sure not here to please Inferior hearts & minds ... )

But For the ones Laughing At my "Spectral" Wisdom ..

This is a "Proper Demo" of ASSASSINS CREED 4 Smoothly Running in a INTEL HD 4000 Chipset .

Showcasing above Assassins Creed 4 On the "Amazing" Unexpensive Intell Hd 4000 Chipset ...

Professional Expecial note :
Assassins Creed 4 Runs Dx11 And Global Illumination in AnvillNext Engine With a big set of Features ...
That include dynamic global illumination ...
http://www.dsogaming.com/interviews...tures-global-illumination-dx11-2-amds-mantle/

Well "kids" and this engine makes all running properly in a "miserable" Hd4000 Intel chipset ..

And so therefore : This i even BET ...

I do believe that LIVENDA Team Spectra GI + Candela + Pbs
Is Totally Properly capable of Running a Game with as much levels contents as Assassin creed 4 on a Intel Hd 4000 Chipset / Without Much Whatsoever Lag / Still Delivering Gl at proper framerates. ..

( An that is because SPECTRA its a Very advanced Screen space algorithm solution ... ) Anyway ...

AND IF UBISOFT THEY CAN DO IT: To Run Assassins Creed in a ChipSet

- LIVENDA CAN
Do run Their GI Solution In a Game in same ChipSet Also.​

Now Who is still laughing here ?
Ho yeah ...me..​

Spoiler: BUT: If you SERIOUSLY Want to Make Games Exclusively for Graphic Cards OVER "Geforce 600+" Generation .

FIRST OF ALL YOU SHOULD THINK DIFFERENT.

Not Attach yourself to "Just one engine" .
But Use Whatever is best and make you "Waste less time" Developing.
Because "Time is Money"

And after all ...

UNITY 5/4 Generation of Games Are / And SHould be Games for that
"Made to run from a Intel 4000 Chipset" To Geforces 500/600 Generations and Above ...

You use UNITY To Enable you to Make Rich Games that Even work in a "Intel Hd 4000" As Assassins Creed and UBISOFT Does ... For making Games that can run even on a "hd 400" chipset" Even With GI Emulated And all Physical Based Candyness.. even on web deployment, working even just with chipsets... Thats Why YOU Should pay and Use UNITY 5 .

Thing that UNREAL4 CANNOT That Well or So well with So many Third party Features as UNITY
As we got STILL the Much More Rich Assets Store in the whole planet ....

That is what Still makes UNITY Unified.


BUT: If you SERIOUSLY Want to Make Games
Exclusively for Graphic Cards OVER "Geforce 600+" Generation .

Then Forget about UNITY ...

/ Forget about all "Dove" DX11 BrainWashing Amateur Shower Champoos...

Stop Wasting time with "Craps"...

____
... And Pay for UNREAL.
Or Get it FULL even FOR FREE with a School licence as long you develop in it.

( Also PRAY & PAY for LIVENDA TEAM As well many other developers be able to Port Their Systems to UNREAL SO the engine becomes even more Full Features)

Cause in UNREAL that's were the Real SOAP for Next Gen Game Developers is now ...

And if you are a "Producer as me" you will see how much Faster Suddenly your Development will become.

_____
That's what we do in our Team At our Project. We are Developing in BOTH fronts.

And Doing Two Games Series at the same time With 2 Engines:
- Some Episodes of the Game Are Made with UNREAL ( The Truthfully Open World "NExt Gen" Part )
- Another Episodes That we will deploy With UNITY 5 ( With alot more complex Features )
And we can do that ( even use 2 engines in one game ) because of Developing in Episodes .. bla bla bla ...

__________
BUT if you Have to Chose and Your Choice is THE NEXT GRAPHICS ONLY.

I do ADVICE TO USE UNREAL : ( And thats why i Do insist in Having CANDELA / SPECTRA / NEPHILIN ) All ported to Unreal ... As For example TRUESKY So easily was ...

If you are trying to Make a Gigantic Next Gen Open World "As us" With UNITY you will be just wasting time Fighting with a engine / fighting With Million Extensions / Fighting with hundreds Developers "That fight with each others" - In a Overall Environment That is Not As much feasible for Next Gen / Not even at the best of what UNITY 5 Cycle can Give of ... Maybe Unity 6 Can Give us What UNREAL Have today.

But that is "Our Team" Very Unique and very Brave Perspective.
Perspective according its needs Everyone is entitled to have its own.

____________________________
But one of the "REAL" things that UNREAL Has and Unity don't.

Is Consistency of All Properly Integrated Development Features
From its Core To Even on Its Plugins. Everything works with everything !

You Are not Seeing For example TRUESKY Plugin in UNREAL Fighting Against the Oceans Plugin , Fighting Against Substance Plugin that doesn't output normals properly , All Fighting without a "Nodebased Interface" Because The "Physical based Shader" Convolution pipeline doesn't work with the nodebased Shader interface .. That Has no proper support for substances Plugin ... on The Terrain System , Not Having Compatibility with the new "World Levels" Were you can merge several scenes seamless Feature "Because the terrains dont rotate even !.. that actually does not work right cause the new voxel engine its in beta ... and the new fbx importer actually doesnt even import animation takes right and just scrambles everything ... so you hav eto pay for another thirdparty script... and still you have to concern with the lowsy terrain system .. not having compatibility with occlusion Shaders in Speedtree, because the terrain System doesn't work with Speedtrees ... or the Volumetric Particles and Dynamic Environment Time of day canot conect with the skybox ... and the light from skybox causes major leecks in the baked masks from enlighten... and enlighten not having Compatibility with the Shaders editor and all rest at all , because some crazy mad man decided to invent a new Rendering Path ...

But yes you see all that and much much more ( RIDICULOUS AMATEUR THINGS / Near The True Consistence of UNREAL 4 Professional STRAIGHT Forward Workflows ) ...

.... in UNITY eating bugs and daily wasting time with "S***s Happening" With the Extremely BROKEN Into Pieces with Segregated Developers each one seeing who is the first eating the next part of the completely Shattered cake ... That is the UNITY Environment

Things ... that Just Make you waste your development time and money . For Not having top "bear" with that Sure is preferable to pay for the 20 bucks month ... In a Engine that is really delightfully to Develop and you just have to "Learn how to use it" Without Spending Dozens to hundreds hours Debating with Hundreds Developers "What they should fix next" at their Own "Subproducts " ...

EPIC UNREAL , Doesn't have voxels for terrains ... play maker ... terraincomposer ... alloy ... skyshop ... sector complete .... PlyGame .. Relief Terrain pack ... procore.. instant oc ... shaderforge.. amplify .. LIVENDA.

And so many others crazy amazing "usable" Integrated third party extensions
That much of the times "do not work properly" in one pipeline.

_______
But Very Differently from UNITY :

First at least EVERYTHING IN UNREAL ENGINE WORKS as it should ...
And second you dont even need all that to develop a reaaly great game in UNREAL .

And the Best of Both Worlds is doing What WE do : USING BOTH ENGINES IN 1 GAME SERIES !

Within A Episodable game "as the wolf among us" as many others ... That "In our case" According the Next "Complete different" Episode Features .. Gives the Player Another Kind of Game and even uses Another kind of Engine According the next set of levels ! Giving the Player The experience of Many Games and many types of short games adventures Within a Same "Saga" . And The only thing we have to do is Universalize the "save games" format that work in both engines ... and more much more ... That is the ALUNBRA THE GAME.

_______
In our 1 year experience with UNREAL :

EPIC As shown us "What is a Unified" Development environment is and should be , and even made it more strong and cohesive the moment they seeded their Whole engine SDK to GITHUB Allowing Developers to Fully Work in the full engine source for Whatsoever Features they demand and can bring to their engine, Wile at same time contributing to the Main Branch.

But all this is Made in a Manner that All Features of Individual developers Are Reviewed and HELPED to be developed by the Own Company Team Division. That Helps Ensuring All Plugins Quality..

UNITY to Reach that kind of "UNITY" that EPIC has today in such short time in its Development Made

( Mister HELGASON Unity CEO would have to Contract at least 10 Full Breed Engineers Just to give Community Assistance to All developers to incorporate their extensions "Properly" in the Main Engine branch . And be there for "Joining developers features to be integrated with each others and with the main engine" And even Evolve it at Users Debug & requests.

But is a whole department That Unity Technologies needs just for that ...

AT LEAST LIVENDA TEAM Goes on the Same Proper Methodology and Tries to :

1) Make a Full Featured Product / that Is not just a GI Solution / But a All types of "New" Lights Paradigm Solution / a New Physical based Shader Pipeline / A Full Featured Correct Reflections / a Full Featured Light Baking to Probes Solution / A Volumetric Spectral Solution ... And some more other High Candies that Im Sure "If you are lucky" you will see by the end of this month ... .

2) They Make Sure That Its Product Works in all every products, Making a very Lightweight Screen Based Adaptive Solution / That If there is some Incompatibility in some aspect of your pipeline as customer in realy short time they can fix it ... And for that as Customer im sure of what im talking.

3) LIVENDA Team Encourages Others Developers to Work With them, and give them all possible support / as We can see by the Case of the Integration of ALLOY with LIVENDA Product ...

4) And more : This Same team Gives all Support To its Customers to Achieve any kind of Integration with Any Products they Find that is still not working ok with their Solutions / As Was in the case of Adapt The program to Work Properly with Shaderforge as well others ..

Its been proved.

I do not Just Believe in all this.
As i effort to put it in practice and Sign Bellow.

The all amazing ...

David Cooper Field
From ALUNBRA Studios

 

Looks like it's quite low framerate.
Also many of the advanced effects are turned off.

 

LOL ! Completly True !
Actually was just the Ambient Occlusion, God Rays, Volumetric fog, Vsink That was turned off ...

At least the Global Illumination Pipeline WORKS !!
^^
...

Now Just Imagine THAT All that with so little ... In UNITY 5 ...​

We Soon Will be Reaching that Point ...
EVen Maibe WIth luck Next months !

Just STay Tuned to this Thread !


/ Thanks for the cool feedback . Best Regards.

Im gone As the Wind. hohoho...
Well ... Back to Hard Work now !

David.​

 

To be honest with you guys, i only use unity for simple games. I think im more productive with cryengine for a relatively large game with a complex system. Just personal preference,,
Anyway,, cryengine currently uses environment probes for gi. You can manually write a env probe script system that can change its baked env maps based on certain conditions(ToD being the main one).
So the lighting changes only every 1 hour or 2 hours or when certain pre-defined conditions change depending on how you set it up.
Performance-wise, it's extremely good,imo. When done right, it's basically same as baked lightmaps requiring less hard disk space. It's low quality so you really have to be careful with where you place env probes and how you design your level,,,,

Unfortunately, Asassin creed4 uses a similiar method for Gi. It's nothing new.