Collab Section Concerns

False. There are objective factors in what makes a game project realistic or not. There are reasonable standards that can be established. People can *try to make whatever they want, but please keep that crap off the forums if the project fails to meet established standards. It's work for the mods and it detracts from actual projects with at least some potential.

I have come to realize that a naive CEO dev isn't going to grow much here and they do more harm than good.

 

So we are seeing a rise in Project survival this is good!

20% is way better than 14%...

So something must have worked.

 

Superpig, with the x equals y I was talking about my own post, not yours. Also, I am not trying to say that what we have now is worse than what we had before. It most certainly is not. I'm just trying to point out that there are still problems with the current model. I am not surprised at the increased survival rate. There is much less clutter in collaboration now. It still is not a great solution, though. Another thing is there were many people who avoided collab even before the new model. There are fewer people who go there now that the chance has been put in place, but I was trying to make the point that once collaboration is fixed it will get many of the readers back, many of whom are talented artisans looking to collaborate on a serious project. Even though this current model is better than its predecessor, it is still very flawed both for the project starter and the artisan looking to collaborate.

 

It is true we have fewer projects, higher success rates, but still the gap between the two is still too large.

 

How many projects that actually get going, and the success rates for them.

 

I'm not sure the methodology for dead projects is really that useful...

For all intents and purposes this is a dead project: http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/135308-Seeking-Artist-for-Quick-iOS-Project. It certainly didn't finish in 6 weeks as planned.

But we now have a rather nice game, fully functional and running at 60fps on all target devices with multiple stages, power ups, character levels, goals, soundtrack, etc.

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A lot of people post, get the people and then start working! Not everyone wants to do every project as a WIP forum post with developer diaries, and updated pictures, etc.

 

I wouldn't say for nothing. It's a very good and useful statistic. It also creates a baseline for the next reincarnation of collaboration.

This is one of the reasons I stay away from collaboration. I'm a follower of the "if you want something done right, do it yourself" philosophy. I do have an artist, but he is a core member of my team and is very reliable.

 

I am just awaiting to see if the Admins managed to look this over and discuss any options.

 

You explained enough of your methodology for me to have some confidence in my statement. Specifically how you collected your samples, the time frame it was conducted in*, and the fact that you did it while drunk

I don't agree with your premise that no public internet activity for 6 months means no activity; many projects both commercial and collaboration are kept quiet on purpose.

Anyways this is even more pointless than the original discussion, stopping.

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*From this I can conclude that it it was very likely to be an internet based search, not, for example, contacting people directly and awaiting their responses.

 

On another (more relevant?) note, I don't think that a project being active or being finished is the only measure of a successful collaboration.

Connecting with like-minded people and learning new techniques are two examples of good things that can come out of a failed project.

 

Good collab thread to me is one that unites members, gets other involved in the discussion/updates, even if they do not join, as long as they are participating in the discussion.

 

The only thing i see is that now especially you, Prion Games, still have this itch of discussing people's project, teaching them and giving advice where they didn't ask for it in the first place.
You went from the collaboration forums over to the commercial forums and just post there a lot now. Maybe because some moderators are finally putting out some hints out that this is not wanted we are back to the collaboration discussion again.

The collaboration forums are a much much more civilized and organized place nowadays that it ever has been. And all the talkytalky was transferred to the commercial forums, but that thankfully is changing now as well. It's just a sign of the forums getting more mature over the years and stuff gets balanced out in the long run.

And just because you bring that "issue" up over and over again doesn't mean that a mass amount of people share the same problem. I know that's what this thread is for, however I don't see too overwhelming sharing of opinions on the collaboration forums being the heart and soul of the forums. I browse the collaboration forums on a 2-3 days basis to see anything I feel I could enjoy or be helpful in and it's a wonderful place to get straight to the point information nowadays with the posing quality guidelines. It was horrible before but now I can quickly skim through a lot of threads and decide which ones are to my liking. Mission accomplished, imo.
I'd rather see the standards of the collaboration forumg being transferred to the commercial section.
Because for me these 2 are an attachment to the forums. I don't wanna waste hours sipping through threads there. I take some 10-20 minutes and that's it. I want to get lost in the showcase, work in progress or the problem solving forums, that's where my time goes and where the heart and soul of the community lies in. And that's where the magic happens

 

Tell me something, if this thread is so pointless why does it carry over 200 replies in a day of being up?

The thread is obviously relevant or it would not have drawn soo much attention, and an Admin would have felt inclined to close it early on.

On top of that the thread has already geared out many great suggestions on ways to go about fixing these issues we have.

There may be a large member base against any change on the Collabs section, but they choose to stay silent. There is also more than likely people who wish change as we do in this thread who also wish to stay non public of their opinions. But regardless the public has spoken in a way of sorts through this thread, sorry if by me making this particular thread angers you in anyway but I was simply voicing my opinion of sorts. For the most part it has went rather well and above all very clean. Shoot I have seen many people join in on this chat that normally are at each others throats, I am quite pleased with the "Unity"(Union) we have all shown here.

 

I still say some sort of form needs to be filled in, that outlines the project in detail, and forces users to enter as much info as possible.
Obviously not everything can be filled in, but people submitting must understand the more information that's been entered. the more likely chance they will have of attracting potential team members.

Perhaps like going on in the Commercial Work section, Collab should be split into two sections..

1.) Projects looking for people
2.) People looking for projects

And the form/data requirements for each are obviously different.
I don't think there is a big issue, people just need more guidance than a big textfield where anything can be entered.

 

Well if you think about is Commercial and Collab are counterparts. They can really be split simply by Paid and Free. So if the answer to Commercial is Buy and Sell section, why not a similar setup for Collab? Sounds very logical, that could be a step in the right direction. Then the other issues can be addressed thereafter. So in simple terms make 2 sub sections/sections, and then add the additional fine tuning afterwards. Including allowed posting, etc.

 

Exactly one of the many changes needed.

I have no direct issue with Collab as there are more than one that needs fixed. So yes, from many angles there needs to be different solutions. Thus why the quick fix was not working and the reasoning behind this thread.

Part of getting people motivated to join you is to have an interesting project. Thus one people are talking about and keeping up conversations in.

People tend to get a thrill saying they help make such and such game, specially when the support on the community is there, and many people bring it back up.

Sometimes the popular decision is the right one. We just need to form a popular decision.

Plus these are not complaints but mere suggestions to better the community.

A complaint would entitle an issue or unfair treatment by a certain party that you feel is wrong. In this case there is no wrong or right, nor a party to blame. As a whole we all are still trying to find a solution to a problem as if something broke in a game that we need to wrap our minds around to solve.

I can compare this thread actually to an "inside joke", it was meant to be funny yet takes awhile to figure it out, then once we get it we all chuckle later.

 

I agree that some (most) projects here are unrealistic and doomed for failure. But again, it is not your place to tell people that. If you don't think they'll succeed, shut-up and walk away. No one is asking for your advice as to the feasibility of their game, so don't offer it.

That is where all the problems come from in the Collab forum; people "offering" unwanted advice.

 

That was not the only problem. There were "cartels" of posters... forget their name now... large group of people posting 3D models everywhere and basically spamming and monopolizing half the front page and drowned everyone else.

There were also people that may fall under "unwanted advice" but you would see easily they had their own collab they would tout all the way (basically: sabotaging to lower recruitment competition.)

There were also several troll threads, not always started due to collab inspiration. I think I remember at least one thread from someone that went to collab and make an MMO FPS Modern Combat Pokemon (bit of hyperbole here) collab after getting annoyed with the constant gossip threads on those topics.

Mind you, there were also collab threads that actually requested feedback yet went into flame-fests when they didn't hear waves of praise. “Requested advice” was as big of a flame war starter as “unwanted advice.”

Never mind the people that started a new project every month, or heck every week, not even bumping, just all new "ideas."

Anyways, my point: I'm sure the mods had more than unwanted advice to deal with in that forum section.

 

PUYA 3D - the pinnacle of "entertainment" in the old collaboration section... and it got even crazier behind the scenes with them ;-)

Anyway, we have an ongoing discussion at UT about how to move forward with this and I'm sure Aurore will figure out a good solution in the future.

 

I'm new to the unity forums, I posted a thread in the collab section, and nothing has happend, is that normal (I would expect at least an awaiting moderation message or something), or did the thread not post for some reason (I tried again, did nothing),
thanks,

 

It's awaiting authorization. You should know if you don't get a response within about 5 days that you didn't get approved. Watch the collab forums to see.

 

You had to bring up Pokemon, you just had to lol. Now the urge is present lol. JK, one day fellas, one day.

 

That guy was a whole new level of crazy. I will miss him.

 

It already is alittle

Example : http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/167501-looking-for-animator-and-a-programmer-for-an-fps-game

 

Was it really just one guy? If so he had one hell of a skill managing multiple accounts...

 

I don't think people should spam advice either, I think threads should continue to be screened, just once a thread is accepted people can post freely with non-advice post preferably. That's all I meant, I think I misunderstood what you said somewhat as meaning that the mods shouldn't decide either?

 

Yes. A small feud between he and I lead to me learning all about him. Just glad he's gone for good this time.

Re-reading my post, I think I came off as a bit more harsh/rude than I meant to be. Thanks for replying so civilly.

While I think a new system should be built from the ground up, I agree that a good start/temporary fix would be to allow open posting on approved threads. Not being able to post updates, respond to posts and bump with pertinent information is a bit of a pain.

Sure, you could possibly have a WIP thread for updates, but that's a bit scattered, and you may not be looking to "show off" your work as much as you're simply showing that work is still being done.

 

I agree with this. I hardly check the Collaboration thread anymore. I've just been going to Unity Gossip as of late. Collaboration forum just feels dead...

 

Yes, I think change will be coming though. Now this thread threw so many ideas out their, most were the same in many variations. I Unity can now look this over and get a plan in pace.

 

I would give it 3 years

Also I recently moved to Gamedev.net for my team ads, they have a pretty good system

 

*Disclaimer: I need to test this is possible before we actually go ahead, but I am keen to hear your thoughts on our solution.

Ok, so after reading all the views and discussions with mods and admins we have decided to somewhat reopen the collaboration forum. For now we think it is best to test the waters a little and allow anyone with at least 200 posts to be able to post freely without need for moderation. Anyone below that number will need to have their thread moderated.

We will not allow replies on accepted threads just yet, we would first like to see how opening it up a little goes, please keep in mind that we rely on the community to report threads that do not obey the rules.

The rules of the forum will be revamped and reposted to allow for this change, please remember that this is a proposition, I need to test it in practice on our testing platform (which is currently under maintenance -_- so boo). But I'd like to know what you think before I go ahead and test something that everyone scream NUUUUH to.

 

Yes! When is this going into place? Can't wait to see how it works.

 

I'll test it as soon as our testing site is not under maintenance, so long story short this should be in place before the end of the week.

 

Cool, so glad you listened to our feedback . Hope all goes well and we can keep this running without much of a problem.

 

From reading this it doesn't actually look like the main issue has been adressed. The issue is that you can't comment on the threads and such imo. The thread approval is within 48 hours which is fast. I mean, if you cant wait 48hours for a thread to go up you have an issue.

 

Many have mentioned thread approval time if you've been paying attention. She said that we were just testing and she wouldn't allow posts YET.

 

But my point is the concern I feel most of us have is that we can't post, so the whole thread approval change seems.. well.. irrelevant. I do hope YET is the keyword

 

Personally: i think those threads should be posted un-moderated anyways. I would add a repost timer of a month minimum (endless edits, though), to make sure any post in the section is not "bumped" via re-creation of threads, or to make sure poeple commit to their project (instead of posting a different project every week.)

Would be useful if the forum automatically set a big [If interested contact here] button at the end of the post with a link to PM the user, but thats a bit of a stretch since I have no clue what the forum capabilities are.

 

Which threads should be un-moderated? The 200+ post count threads? I agree with the repost timer, there should definitely be one. No reason to start a new project within a month.

 

I mean that although I agree with the forum lockdown, I never thought the moderation of the OP step was needed or helpful. The biggest issue in the forum were the flames against the OP. Secondary issue is constant thread starting.

By preventing comments, we fix the first issue.
By adding a timer we fix the second issue.

Some one posts a lame project thread, their loss. They are forced to wait out on their timer to repost, or attempt to update their thread.

 

Unfortunately a timer is not possible, as I mentioned before there are a tonne of good ideas but we are limited to what we can do in the immediate future. 200+ post counts would be un-moderated. We don't want to allow replies just yet, we want to see how this would go first.

 

I don't know, comments would be helpful. I agree however, thread moderation doesn't really help. If they post a bad thread, it could be deleted.

 

I think comments would be helpful, but I understand why you would want to wait and test things first. Can't wait to see how it goes.

 

What if replies didn't bump the thread? That would stop people from constantly keeping theirs at the top, but would still allow discussion. Is that possible?